Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

AF4 Nose Up on Plane

Expand Messages
  • Brian Nimmo
    Have any others observed their AF4 like to jut it s nose up in the air when planning? I ve adjusted the thrust angle of my motor to be parallel to the plane of
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 28, 2014
       
      Have any others observed their AF4 like to jut it's nose up in the air when planning?
       
      I've adjusted the thrust angle of my motor to be parallel to the plane of the flat bottom.  If anything it is slightly too close to the transom and exerting a slight downward pressure on the bow.
       
      At  rest the boat with weight distributed neutral she sits level in the water.  On plane the front half of the boat is out of the water. 
       
      When I redistribute the weight and put 130 lbs at the front of the bird watcher the boat leans well forward at rest, as I would expect.  But when I bring it up on plane with that weight in the bow the nose is up very close to where it was with neutral weight distribution.
       
      This is making the decision of where to put the bilge pumps more complicated than anticipated.  With me asleep in the cabin the boat will lean to fore, and the cockpit bilge pumps need to be in the forward corners of the cockpit.  When planning the boat will lean aft, and the bilge pumps need to be in the aft corners of the boat under the motor well.  I don't want to mount 4 bilge pumps.
       
      Anyone have experience with this phenomenon?
       
      Brian Nimmo
       
       
    • Joseph Stromski
      I ve never heard of anyone installing an electric bilge pump on an AF4, since there s really no bilge. Other than one trip camping during a thunderstorm, I
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 28, 2014
        I've never heard of anyone installing an electric bilge pump on an AF4, since there's really no bilge. Other than one trip camping during a thunderstorm, I haven't had any water get aboard, other than what swimmers brought back in climbing aboard. I dealt with that with a manual bilge pump or a sponge. I've got 2 drain plugs installed on the centerline, one in the cabin and one in the cockpit so that significant  water doesn't accumulate while trailering, but there will still be some in the corners for the sponge.
        I dealt with the trim issues by mounting my stereo, fuse panel, and deep cycle battery at the very front of the cabin.  Also keep a 15 lbs. river anchor up in the anchor well. 
        Currently I plan to install a helm/remote throttle with monkey stick steering exactly like Rob Rhode-Szudy did on the Sandy Shoal 16 re-design. That helps with the trim, but more importantly will get me away from the motor so I can participate in conversations. My old motor is pretty noisy.
        Nice job on the boat!
        Joe



        On Monday, July 28, 2014 8:33 PM, "Brian Nimmo owwin@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


         
         
        Have any others observed their AF4 like to jut it's nose up in the air when planning?
         
        I've adjusted the thrust angle of my motor to be parallel to the plane of the flat bottom.  If anything it is slightly too close to the transom and exerting a slight downward pressure on the bow.
         
        At  rest the boat with weight distributed neutral she sits level in the water.  On plane the front half of the boat is out of the water. 
         
        When I redistribute the weight and put 130 lbs at the front of the bird watcher the boat leans well forward at rest, as I would expect.  But when I bring it up on plane with that weight in the bow the nose is up very close to where it was with neutral weight distribution.
         
        This is making the decision of where to put the bilge pumps more complicated than anticipated.  With me asleep in the cabin the boat will lean to fore, and the cockpit bilge pumps need to be in the forward corners of the cockpit.  When planning the boat will lean aft, and the bilge pumps need to be in the aft corners of the boat under the motor well.  I don't want to mount 4 bilge pumps.
         
        Anyone have experience with this phenomenon?
         
        Brian Nimmo
         
         


      • Brian Nimmo
        I believe it technically is the bilge (and the floor, the sole, the hull, as they all tend to be the same panel in a Michalak design ;) ) It is where the rain
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 30, 2014
          I believe it technically is the bilge (and the floor, the sole, the hull, as they all tend to be the same panel in a Michalak design ;) ) 
           
          It is where the rain will collect when I'm underway or sleeping in the cabin and will need a pump or two to eject the bulk of the rain overboard.  In previous boats I've been able to put the pumps in the aft corners and distribute weight aft-of-neutral to channel the water toward them.
           
          The forward rocker in the AF4 creates a bit of a teeter-totter when entering the cabin slot from the cockpit, and I don't feel comfortable loading weight aft-of-neutral when the boat already has a tendency to carry hits nose in the air. 
           
          I'm presently considering a "portable" pump attached to a weighted block that can be moved around on the cockpit floor but doubt I'd sleep well through a downpour relying on that arrangement.
           
          Thanks for the encouragement through the build.  I readilly admit to cribbing from your video and photos during the build!
           
           

          From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 19:09:44 -0700
          Subject: Re: [Michalak] AF4 Nose Up on Plane

           
          I've never heard of anyone installing an electric bilge pump on an AF4, since there's really no bilge. Other than one trip camping during a thunderstorm, I haven't had any water get aboard, other than what swimmers brought back in climbing aboard. I dealt with that with a manual bilge pump or a sponge. I've got 2 drain plugs installed on the centerline, one in the cabin and one in the cockpit so that significant  water doesn't accumulate while trailering, but there will still be some in the corners for the sponge.
          I dealt with the trim issues by mounting my stereo, fuse panel, and deep cycle battery at the very front of the cabin.  Also keep a 15 lbs. river anchor up in the anchor well. 
          Currently I plan to install a helm/remote throttle with monkey stick steering exactly like Rob Rhode-Szudy did on the Sandy Shoal 16 re-design. That helps with the trim, but more importantly will get me away from the motor so I can participate in conversations. My old motor is pretty noisy.
          Nice job on the boat!
          Joe



          On Monday, July 28, 2014 8:33 PM, "Brian Nimmo owwin@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


           
           
          Have any others observed their AF4 like to jut it's nose up in the air when planning?
           
          I've adjusted the thrust angle of my motor to be parallel to the plane of the flat bottom.  If anything it is slightly too close to the transom and exerting a slight downward pressure on the bow.
           
          At  rest the boat with weight distributed neutral she sits level in the water.  On plane the front half of the boat is out of the water. 
           
          When I redistribute the weight and put 130 lbs at the front of the bird watcher the boat leans well forward at rest, as I would expect.  But when I bring it up on plane with that weight in the bow the nose is up very close to where it was with neutral weight distribution.
           
          This is making the decision of where to put the bilge pumps more complicated than anticipated.  With me asleep in the cabin the boat will lean to fore, and the cockpit bilge pumps need to be in the forward corners of the cockpit.  When planning the boat will lean aft, and the bilge pumps need to be in the aft corners of the boat under the motor well.  I don't want to mount 4 bilge pumps.
           
          Anyone have experience with this phenomenon?
           
          Brian Nimmo
           
           



        • Joseph Stromski
          Are there bulkhead drains or scuppers allowing water to flow from the cabin to the cockpit (and vice versa)? On my boat, there aren t any, so as long as I ve
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 30, 2014
            Are there bulkhead drains or scuppers allowing water to flow from the cabin to the cockpit (and vice versa)? On my boat, there aren't any, so as long as I've got the canvas top up over the slot, the cockpit can fill up the level of the comapnionway (hatch? doorway?) opening during rain and the cabin will remain dry. I've never accumulated more than a couple inches in the cockpit while camping, but that's because of luck with the weather.
            If water is free to flow from the cockpit into the cabin, yeah, that'll cause some issues. First thing you'll want is some duckboards in the cabin. Maybe a portable bilge pump like this one at Overton's, you could move it to wherever the low point ended up being depending upon trim. 
            Glad you derived some help from my stuff!
            Joe


            On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:04 AM, "Brian Nimmo owwin@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


             
            I believe it technically is the bilge (and the floor, the sole, the hull, as they all tend to be the same panel in a Michalak design ;) ) 
             
            It is where the rain will collect when I'm underway or sleeping in the cabin and will need a pump or two to eject the bulk of the rain overboard.  In previous boats I've been able to put the pumps in the aft corners and distribute weight aft-of-neutral to channel the water toward them.
             
            The forward rocker in the AF4 creates a bit of a teeter-totter when entering the cabin slot from the cockpit, and I don't feel comfortable loading weight aft-of-neutral when the boat already has a tendency to carry hits nose in the air. 
             
            I'm presently considering a "portable" pump attached to a weighted block that can be moved around on the cockpit floor but doubt I'd sleep well through a downpour relying on that arrangement.
             
            Thanks for the encouragement through the build.  I readilly admit to cribbing from your video and photos during the build!
             
             

            From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 19:09:44 -0700
            Subject: Re: [Michalak] AF4 Nose Up on Plane

             
            I've never heard of anyone installing an electric bilge pump on an AF4, since there's really no bilge. Other than one trip camping during a thunderstorm, I haven't had any water get aboard, other than what swimmers brought back in climbing aboard. I dealt with that with a manual bilge pump or a sponge. I've got 2 drain plugs installed on the centerline, one in the cabin and one in the cockpit so that significant  water doesn't accumulate while trailering, but there will still be some in the corners for the sponge.
            I dealt with the trim issues by mounting my stereo, fuse panel, and deep cycle battery at the very front of the cabin.  Also keep a 15 lbs. river anchor up in the anchor well. 
            Currently I plan to install a helm/remote throttle with monkey stick steering exactly like Rob Rhode-Szudy did on the Sandy Shoal 16 re-design. That helps with the trim, but more importantly will get me away from the motor so I can participate in conversations. My old motor is pretty noisy.
            Nice job on the boat!
            Joe



            On Monday, July 28, 2014 8:33 PM, "Brian Nimmo owwin@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


             
             
            Have any others observed their AF4 like to jut it's nose up in the air when planning?
             
            I've adjusted the thrust angle of my motor to be parallel to the plane of the flat bottom.  If anything it is slightly too close to the transom and exerting a slight downward pressure on the bow.
             
            At  rest the boat with weight distributed neutral she sits level in the water.  On plane the front half of the boat is out of the water. 
             
            When I redistribute the weight and put 130 lbs at the front of the bird watcher the boat leans well forward at rest, as I would expect.  But when I bring it up on plane with that weight in the bow the nose is up very close to where it was with neutral weight distribution.
             
            This is making the decision of where to put the bilge pumps more complicated than anticipated.  With me asleep in the cabin the boat will lean to fore, and the cockpit bilge pumps need to be in the forward corners of the cockpit.  When planning the boat will lean aft, and the bilge pumps need to be in the aft corners of the boat under the motor well.  I don't want to mount 4 bilge pumps.
             
            Anyone have experience with this phenomenon?
             
            Brian Nimmo
             
             





          • Joseph Stromski
            forgot the link: http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Rule-AquaCharge-Rechargeable-Portable-Water-Pump&i=96791&r=view On , Joseph Stromski
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 30, 2014
              forgot the link:


              On , Joseph Stromski <j.stromski@...> wrote:


              Are there bulkhead drains or scuppers allowing water to flow from the cabin to the cockpit (and vice versa)? On my boat, there aren't any, so as long as I've got the canvas top up over the slot, the cockpit can fill up the level of the comapnionway (hatch? doorway?) opening during rain and the cabin will remain dry. I've never accumulated more than a couple inches in the cockpit while camping, but that's because of luck with the weather.
              If water is free to flow from the cockpit into the cabin, yeah, that'll cause some issues. First thing you'll want is some duckboards in the cabin. Maybe a portable bilge pump like this one at Overton's, you could move it to wherever the low point ended up being depending upon trim. 
              Glad you derived some help from my stuff!
              Joe


              On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:04 AM, "Brian Nimmo owwin@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


               
              I believe it technically is the bilge (and the floor, the sole, the hull, as they all tend to be the same panel in a Michalak design ;) ) 
               
              It is where the rain will collect when I'm underway or sleeping in the cabin and will need a pump or two to eject the bulk of the rain overboard.  In previous boats I've been able to put the pumps in the aft corners and distribute weight aft-of-neutral to channel the water toward them.
               
              The forward rocker in the AF4 creates a bit of a teeter-totter when entering the cabin slot from the cockpit, and I don't feel comfortable loading weight aft-of-neutral when the boat already has a tendency to carry hits nose in the air. 
               
              I'm presently considering a "portable" pump attached to a weighted block that can be moved around on the cockpit floor but doubt I'd sleep well through a downpour relying on that arrangement.
               
              Thanks for the encouragement through the build.  I readilly admit to cribbing from your video and photos during the build!
               
               

              From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 19:09:44 -0700
              Subject: Re: [Michalak] AF4 Nose Up on Plane

               
              I've never heard of anyone installing an electric bilge pump on an AF4, since there's really no bilge. Other than one trip camping during a thunderstorm, I haven't had any water get aboard, other than what swimmers brought back in climbing aboard. I dealt with that with a manual bilge pump or a sponge. I've got 2 drain plugs installed on the centerline, one in the cabin and one in the cockpit so that significant  water doesn't accumulate while trailering, but there will still be some in the corners for the sponge.
              I dealt with the trim issues by mounting my stereo, fuse panel, and deep cycle battery at the very front of the cabin.  Also keep a 15 lbs. river anchor up in the anchor well. 
              Currently I plan to install a helm/remote throttle with monkey stick steering exactly like Rob Rhode-Szudy did on the Sandy Shoal 16 re-design. That helps with the trim, but more importantly will get me away from the motor so I can participate in conversations. My old motor is pretty noisy.
              Nice job on the boat!
              Joe



              On Monday, July 28, 2014 8:33 PM, "Brian Nimmo owwin@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


               
               
              Have any others observed their AF4 like to jut it's nose up in the air when planning?
               
              I've adjusted the thrust angle of my motor to be parallel to the plane of the flat bottom.  If anything it is slightly too close to the transom and exerting a slight downward pressure on the bow.
               
              At  rest the boat with weight distributed neutral she sits level in the water.  On plane the front half of the boat is out of the water. 
               
              When I redistribute the weight and put 130 lbs at the front of the bird watcher the boat leans well forward at rest, as I would expect.  But when I bring it up on plane with that weight in the bow the nose is up very close to where it was with neutral weight distribution.
               
              This is making the decision of where to put the bilge pumps more complicated than anticipated.  With me asleep in the cabin the boat will lean to fore, and the cockpit bilge pumps need to be in the forward corners of the cockpit.  When planning the boat will lean aft, and the bilge pumps need to be in the aft corners of the boat under the motor well.  I don't want to mount 4 bilge pumps.
               
              Anyone have experience with this phenomenon?
               
              Brian Nimmo
               
               







            • jmbell1
              Planing hulls raise their nose while on plane. It s what they do! One thing you need to be careful about with an AF4 is sticking the stem into a wave at speed.
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 31, 2014
                Planing hulls raise their nose while on plane. It's what they do! 

                One thing you need to be careful about with an AF4 is sticking the stem into a wave at speed. The boat WILL run wild on it's helm and try to toss you out. This is VERY dangerous. Because of that, I liked that my AF4 was bow up at speed. 

                See the photo at http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/images/sm_MrMoon_Sinclair_4.jpg for my boat running about 15 mph. 
                 
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.