Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Ruggedness of AF4?

Expand Messages
  • Matthew Hall
    As I begin to gather materials for my AF4 Casa build, I ve been thinking about durability.  This boat will be used mostly on two reservoirs near my home, both
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 29, 2014
    • 0 Attachment
      As I begin to gather materials for my AF4 Casa build, I've been thinking about durability.  This boat will be used mostly on two reservoirs near my home, both with rocky/gravelly shores and will see a fair amount of beaching in order to allow the kids to go ashore and "messabout," picnic, etc...  Once I've gotten my sea legs (and a larger motor) I may even take it out on the Delaware River, where the channel can be narrow and hard to follow, and there are often submerged logs.  This has me thinking about the durability of the hull and the materials used.  AF4 Casa specifies three sheets of 1/4", two sheets of 3/8", and four sheets of 1/2".  What if I built the boat out of three sheets of 1/2", two sheets of 5/8", and four sheets of 3/4"?  All of that upsizing may not even be necessary-basically I would just like a thicker/stronger hull/bottom.  Obviously I'd end up with a heavier boat, but AF4 Casa seems to have enough displacement to handle it, plus I plan on omitting the benches and leaving the cockpit open, which will save some weight.  I'd be curious to hear from those who have beat on their AF4 a bit, beaching it and such, to hear their impressions.  Feel free to tell me that I'm completely overbuilding it in my head and to stick with the plans...
    • Brian Nimmo
      I went with a layer of 12oz fiberglass on my AF4 bottom and sole, and 4oz fiberglass on interior and exterior sides. I also used 2x4 s for the keel and 2
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 29, 2014
      • 0 Attachment
        I went with a layer of 12oz fiberglass on my AF4 bottom and sole,  and 4oz fiberglass on interior and exterior sides.  I also used 2x4's for the keel and 2 stiffeners on the hull bottom instead of the 1x4's JM specifies.
         
        I don't have much to report as I've just completed the build and only test-putted a couple of laps around a local city impoundment.  I did learn that modern 10hp four-stroke is woefully inadequate for the heavier build.   I should know how she does with a 20hp by the end of the week.
         
        Brian Nimmo
         

        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 18:17:04 -0700
        Subject: [Michalak] Ruggedness of AF4?

         
        As I begin to gather materials for my AF4 Casa build, I've been thinking about durability.  This boat will be used mostly on two reservoirs near my home, both with rocky/gravelly shores and will see a fair amount of beaching in order to allow the kids to go ashore and "messabout," picnic, etc...  Once I've gotten my sea legs (and a larger motor) I may even take it out on the Delaware River, where the channel can be narrow and hard to follow, and there are often submerged logs.  This has me thinking about the durability of the hull and the materials used.  AF4 Casa specifies three sheets of 1/4", two sheets of 3/8", and four sheets of 1/2".  What if I built the boat out of three sheets of 1/2", two sheets of 5/8", and four sheets of 3/4"?  All of that upsizing may not even be necessary-basically I would just like a thicker/stronger hull/bottom.  Obviously I'd end up with a heavier boat, but AF4 Casa seems to have enough displacement to handle it, plus I plan on omitting the benches and leaving the cockpit open, which will save some weight.  I'd be curious to hear from those who have beat on their AF4 a bit, beaching it and such, to hear their impressions.  Feel free to tell me that I'm completely overbuilding it in my head and to stick with the plans...


      • Matthew Hall
        Brian, Care to elaborate on woefully inadequate?  I ask because the two reservoirs I mentioned I ll be spending a lot of time on are 9.9 limited.  I should
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 30, 2014
        • 0 Attachment
          Brian,

          Care to elaborate on "woefully inadequate?"  I ask because the two reservoirs I mentioned I'll be spending a lot of time on are 9.9 limited.  I should add that I'm not looking to go fast, but I don't want to be doing 6 MPH at full throttle either.  What kind of load did you have in the boat at the time in terms of passengers, gear, etc...?

          Thanks,

          Matthew
        • Brian Nimmo
          I should also elaborate on heavier . My AF4 is fully glassed inside and out, including the bulkheads and decks. I d estimate it s carrying an additional 100
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 30, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            I should also elaborate on "heavier".  My AF4 is fully glassed inside and out, including the bulkheads and decks.  I'd estimate it's carrying an additional 100 lbs of epoxy saturating the glass and coating everything else that isn't glassed.
             
            With myself (around 240 lbs) and 2 gallons of fuel aboard my Nissan (Tohatsu) 10hp labored to get on plane and once there never got up to 'comfort zone' rpm - it continued to struggle as if still pushing a bow wave.
             
            If you don't want to plane your 9.9 will do fine - you could get by with a 3.5.  If you want to comfortably plane the 9.9 will not satisfy, let alone carry a guest or 2 and a loaded cooler of refreshments.
             
             
            Brian Nimmo
             
             
             
             

             

            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 03:30:22 -0700
            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Ruggedness of AF4?

             
            Brian,

            Care to elaborate on "woefully inadequate?"  I ask because the two reservoirs I mentioned I'll be spending a lot of time on are 9.9 limited.  I should add that I'm not looking to go fast, but I don't want to be doing 6 MPH at full throttle either.  What kind of load did you have in the boat at the time in terms of passengers, gear, etc...?

            Thanks,

            Matthew


          • Joseph Stromski
            Replace the 1/2 bottom with 5/8 and you ll be fine. Or add a layer of epoxy/glass to the 1/2 bottom like me and Brian did. No need to go heavier on the
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 30, 2014
            • 0 Attachment
              Replace the 1/2 bottom with 5/8 and you'll be fine. Or add a layer of epoxy/glass to the 1/2 bottom like me and Brian did. No need to go heavier on the topsides. Or just go with what the plans spec. What you're proposing is way overkill imho, esp at your intended speeds. You'd have to be having a really bad day to punch a hole through 1/2 ply that's reinforced with internal frames and external skids 

              Joe


              On Monday, June 30, 2014 7:09 AM, "Brian Nimmo owwin@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


               
              I should also elaborate on "heavier".  My AF4 is fully glassed inside and out, including the bulkheads and decks.  I'd estimate it's carrying an additional 100 lbs of epoxy saturating the glass and coating everything else that isn't glassed.
               
              With myself (around 240 lbs) and 2 gallons of fuel aboard my Nissan (Tohatsu) 10hp labored to get on plane and once there never got up to 'comfort zone' rpm - it continued to struggle as if still pushing a bow wave.
               
              If you don't want to plane your 9.9 will do fine - you could get by with a 3.5.  If you want to comfortably plane the 9.9 will not satisfy, let alone carry a guest or 2 and a loaded cooler of refreshments.
               
               
              Brian Nimmo
               
               
               
               

               

              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 03:30:22 -0700
              Subject: [Michalak] Re: Ruggedness of AF4?

               
              Brian,

              Care to elaborate on "woefully inadequate?"  I ask because the two reservoirs I mentioned I'll be spending a lot of time on are 9.9 limited.  I should add that I'm not looking to go fast, but I don't want to be doing 6 MPH at full throttle either.  What kind of load did you have in the boat at the time in terms of passengers, gear, etc...?

              Thanks,

              Matthew



            • Gene Berry
              I would second Joe s opinion, Jim did an essay about replacing the bottom on his AF4 when it rotted out and if i remember correctly he used 5/8 for the new
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 30, 2014
              • 0 Attachment


                I would second Joe's opinion, Jim did an essay about replacing the bottom on his AF4 when it rotted out and if i remember correctly he used 5/8 for the new bottom. said it worked a treat.

                as an apples to oranges comparison (sort of) i routinely use 5mm ply for the sides of my boats instead of the 1/4" specified and i have had no problems from it yet. i am building #15 right now.

                Gene Berry   


                On Monday, June 30, 2014 8:07 AM, "Joseph Stromski j.stromski@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                 
                Replace the 1/2 bottom with 5/8 and you'll be fine. Or add a layer of epoxy/glass to the 1/2 bottom like me and Brian did. No need to go heavier on the topsides. Or just go with what the plans spec. What you're proposing is way overkill imho, esp at your intended speeds. You'd have to be having a really bad day to punch a hole through 1/2 ply that's reinforced with internal frames and external skids 

                Joe


                On Monday, June 30, 2014 7:09 AM, "Brian Nimmo owwin@... [Michalak]" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                 
                I should also elaborate on "heavier".  My AF4 is fully glassed inside and out, including the bulkheads and decks.  I'd estimate it's carrying an additional 100 lbs of epoxy saturating the glass and coating everything else that isn't glassed.
                 
                With myself (around 240 lbs) and 2 gallons of fuel aboard my Nissan (Tohatsu) 10hp labored to get on plane and once there never got up to 'comfort zone' rpm - it continued to struggle as if still pushing a bow wave.
                 
                If you don't want to plane your 9.9 will do fine - you could get by with a 3.5.  If you want to comfortably plane the 9.9 will not satisfy, let alone carry a guest or 2 and a loaded cooler of refreshments.
                 
                 
                Brian Nimmo
                 
                 
                 
                 

                 

                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 03:30:22 -0700
                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Ruggedness of AF4?

                 
                Brian,

                Care to elaborate on "woefully inadequate?"  I ask because the two reservoirs I mentioned I'll be spending a lot of time on are 9.9 limited.  I should add that I'm not looking to go fast, but I don't want to be doing 6 MPH at full throttle either.  What kind of load did you have in the boat at the time in terms of passengers, gear, etc...?

                Thanks,

                Matthew





              • jmbell1
                Mine was built with a 1/2 bottom and 3/8 sides and decks. I personally think you are OK doing 1/4 sides, but beefing up the bottom is a good idea. If I ever
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 31, 2014
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mine was built with a 1/2" bottom and 3/8"sides and decks. I personally think you are OK doing 1/4" sides, but beefing up the bottom is a good idea. If I ever built another one, I'd go 1/2" or 5/8" on the bottom and transom, 1/4" sides, and 3/8" or even 1/2" decks and seats.  I'd sheath the bottom with a layer of 10 oz and the sides with 4 or 6 oz cloth (to prevent checking). 
                • Brian Nimmo
                  You have either read my detailed build on Facebook or we are channeling the same AF4 spirit. I d read about flexible floors on the early AF4 s so I used 12oz
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 31, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You have either read my detailed build on Facebook or we are channeling the same AF4 spirit.
                     
                    I'd read about flexible floors on the early AF4's so I used 12oz glass on both sides of my 1/2 inch bottom panel, and used 2x4's for all three stiffeners on the hull bottom.  The bottom is rock-solid crossing harsh wakes at speed.
                     
                    My sides are 1/4 inch also glassed on both sides with 4oz fabric as a anti-checking layer.   I was later relieved to see the glass had also taken some of the floppiness out of the sides after the temp frames came out - I thought they deflected rather easily before the glass.
                     
                    I notice in your AF4 picture the boat is riding on about 1/3 the hull.  Try holding that into stiff quartering breeze!
                     
                     

                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 07:30:50 -0700
                    Subject: RE: [Michalak] Ruggedness of AF4?

                     
                    Mine was built with a 1/2" bottom and 3/8"sides and decks. I personally think you are OK doing 1/4" sides, but beefing up the bottom is a good idea. If I ever built another one, I'd go 1/2" or 5/8" on the bottom and transom, 1/4" sides, and 3/8" or even 1/2" decks and seats.  I'd sheath the bottom with a layer of 10 oz and the sides with 4 or 6 oz cloth (to prevent checking). 
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.