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car topping choices

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  • h0mmer0uge
    Hi I wrote something simklar on the Selway Fisher group and got a resonse that was food for thought about competing priorities; quite rightly.   I'm
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 30, 2013
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      Hi
      I wrote something simklar on the Selway Fisher group and got a resonse that was food for thought about competing priorities; quite rightly.
       
      I'm looking to build a boat that I can car top to float on a local canal and off the beach in sheltered waters. It will be primarily be for me rowing (not for excercise)/ birdwatching but I may take a couple of my children or my wife  picnicking.
       
      My eye has been drawn to several Michalak designs but espcially to
      Oracle, robote and Vireo 14 as rowboats
      and to Mixer/Mixer2 as row/ sail boats. These would as far as I can tell allow me the option of sailing too: on my own .
       
      Reading around all seem to be cartoppable. Also all seem to match my lack of experience in boat building.
       
      Should I think about other options, or are any of the above more suitable for what I describe.
       
      kind regards
      Chris
    • John Trussell
      Chris, Back in the day when I was young and strong (and not very wealthy), I car topped a lot. I found that longer boats were easier to car top than shorter
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 30, 2013
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        Chris,



        Back in the day when I was young and strong (and not very wealthy), I car
        topped a lot. I found that longer boats were easier to car top than shorter
        boats because you could put one end on a pad of some sort, raise the other
        end to a roof rack, and then slide the boat forward on top of the car.



        I also found that boats with fewer pieces were used more than complicated
        boats. For a canoe or kayak, you need a boat and a paddle. For a row boat,
        you need a boat, two oars and two oarlocks. For a sailboat, you need a boat,
        spars, sails, a rudder, a leeboard, and a bunch of line. Of all the boats I
        car topped, the one that got the most use was a kayak (a Kayel Otter Slalom
        form a British stitch and glue kit imported by the Cleveland Amateur Boat
        Building Society in the early 70's). With a Kayak on top of a Fiat 128, and
        a paddle and pfd in the back, I could launch in about 5 minutes.



        One way to guestimate the weight of a boat is to see how much plywood it
        uses. There are a lot of 12 to 15 foot boats around which use 4 sheets of
        plywood and I bet they all weigh about the same. If you accept that longer
        is easier to car top, a 15 footer might be a better choice than a shorter
        boat. However, one reason to build a boat is to get the boat you want, so
        pick whichever design you like and go for it!



        JohnT



        _____

        From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of redprospector@...
        Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 7:32 AM
        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Michalak] car topping choices





        Hi
        I wrote something simklar on the Selway Fisher group and got a resonse that
        was food for thought about competing priorities; quite rightly.

        I'm looking to build a boat that I can car top to float on a local canal and
        off the beach in sheltered waters. It will be primarily be for me rowing
        (not for excercise)/ birdwatching but I may take a couple of my children or
        my wife picnicking.

        My eye has been drawn to several Michalak designs but espcially to
        Oracle, robote and Vireo 14 as rowboats
        and to Mixer/Mixer2 as row/ sail boats. These would as far as I can tell
        allow me the option of sailing too: on my own .

        Reading around all seem to be cartoppable. Also all seem to match my lack of
        experience in boat building.

        Should I think about other options, or are any of the above more suitable
        for what I describe.

        kind regards
        Chris





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andre
        I’m about to complete a piccup and since the very beginning I planned to car top her. I think I’ll end up with a hull within a weight range acceptable in
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 30, 2013
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          I’m about to complete a piccup and since the very beginning I planned to car top her. I think I’ll end up with a hull within a weight range acceptable in terms of designed weight, considering materials used and little modifications I did on my own. The point is that 90 lbs is a lot to car top in my opinion. Handling the boat on the shop I felt it ! hehehe. There are lifters you can build/buy to help but it is just another tool you will have to bring along to launch the boat. Not practical.  As John said, the simpler the better. I’ve decided to trailer my piccup.
           
          If I’d look for a cartopable boat to paddle/sail to carry 2  I would definitely stay below 50 lbs and would think seriously about a canoe. Good luck on your quest !


          redprospector@... escreveu:


          >
          >Hi
          >I wrote something simklar on the Selway Fisher group and got a resonse that was food for thought about competing priorities; quite rightly.

          >I'm looking to build a boat that I can car top to float on a local canal and off the beach in sheltered waters. It will be primarily be for me rowing (not for excercise)/ birdwatching but I may take a couple of my children or my wife  picnicking.

          >My eye has been drawn to several Michalak designs but espcially to
          >Oracle, robote and Vireo 14 as rowboats
          >and to Mixer/Mixer2 as row/ sail boats. These would as far as I can tell allow me the option of sailing too: on my own .

          >Reading around all seem to be cartoppable. Also all seem to match my lack of experience in boat building.

          >Should I think about other options, or are any of the above more suitable for what I describe.

          >kind regards
          >Chris
          >
          >
          >
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • h0mmer0uge
          Thanks John and Andre for the advice about simplicity.  Thanks for the info on the piccup Andre. I ve cartopped a 80lb canoe before but I suspect the
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 31, 2013
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            Thanks John and Andre for the advice about simplicity.  Thanks for the info on the piccup Andre. I've cartopped a 80lb canoe before but I suspect the width of the piccup will add to the difficulty. I take it Twixt would be a similar weight. Interesting what you say about kayaks John. I re-read the New Kayak shop tonight and noted the Mill Creek kayaks had a sailing rig option.  The boats I like are the lightweight rowing boats like the robote, roar2 and oracle. I like the lines on these very much. I'll go order Jim's book I think, revisit sailing kayaks and have another think.  .    --- In michalak@yahoogroups.com, <basso.asb@...> wrote: I’m about to complete a piccup and since the very beginning I planned to car top her. I think I’ll end up with a hull within a weight range acceptable in terms of designed weight, considering materials used and little modifications I did on my own. The point is that 90 lbs is a lot to car top in my opinion. Handling the boat on the shop I felt it ! hehehe. There are lifters you can build/buy to help but it is just another tool you will have to bring along to launch the boat. Not practical.  As John said, the simpler the better. I’ve decided to trailer my piccup.
             
            If I’d look for a cartopable boat to paddle/sail to carry 2  I would definitely stay below 50 lbs and would think seriously about a canoe. Good luck on your quest !


            redprospector@... escreveu:


            >
            >Hi
            >I wrote something simklar on the Selway Fisher group and got a resonse that was food for thought about competing priorities; quite rightly.

            >I'm looking to build a boat that I can car top to float on a local canal and off the beach in sheltered waters. It will be primarily be for me rowing (not for excercise)/ birdwatching but I may take a couple of my children or my wife  picnicking.

            >My eye has been drawn to several Michalak designs but espcially to
            >Oracle, robote and Vireo 14 as rowboats
            >and to Mixer/Mixer2 as row/ sail boats. These would as far as I can tell allow me the option of sailing too: on my own .

            >Reading around all seem to be cartoppable. Also all seem to match my lack of experience in boat building.

            >Should I think about other options, or are any of the above more suitable for what I describe.

            >kind regards
            >Chris
            >
            >
            >
            ><!-- #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc { font-family: Arial; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd { margin: 10px 0px; font-weight: 700; font-size: 78%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad { margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 0 0; } #actions { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 11px; padding: 10px 0; } #activity { background-color: #e0ecee; float: left; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; padding: 10px; } #activity span { font-weight: 700; } #activity span:first-child { text-transform: uppercase; } #activity span a { color: #5085b6; text-decoration: none; } #activity span span { color: #ff7900; } #activity span .underline { text-decoration: underline; } .attach { clear: both; display: table; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; padding: 10px 0; width: 400px; } .attach div a { text-decoration: none; } .attach img { border: none; padding-right: 5px; } .attach label { display: block; margin-bottom: 5px; } .attach label a { text-decoration: none; } blockquote { margin: 0 0 0 4px; } .bold { font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; font-weight: 700; } .bold a { text-decoration: none; } dd.last p a { font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span { margin-right: 10px; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span.yshortcuts { margin-right: 0; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } .green { color: #628c2a; } .MsoNormal { margin: 0 0 0 0; } o { font-size: 0; } #photos div { float: left; width: 72px; } #photos div div { border: 1px solid #666666; height: 62px; overflow: hidden; width: 62px; } #photos div label { color: #666666; font-size: 10px; overflow: hidden; text-align: center; white-space: nowrap; width: 64px; } #reco-category { font-size: 77%; } #reco-desc { font-size: 77%; } .replbq { margin: 4px; } #ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { /* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/ margin-right: 2px; padding-right: 5px; } #ygrp-mlmsg { font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif; *font-size: small; *font: x-small; } #ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size: inherit; font: 100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea { font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif; } #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code { font:115% monospace; *font-size:100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height: 1.22em; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo { padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco #reco-head { color: #ff7900; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco { margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a { font-size: 130%; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li { font-size: 77%; list-style-type: square; padding: 6px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 8px; } #ygrp-text { font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p { margin: 0 0 1em 0; } #ygrp-text tt { font-size: 120%; } #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right: none !important; } -->

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • alias1719
             As usual, I suggest that skin-on-frame is your best option. There are ultralight - but fairly delicate - rowboat options from the late Platt Monfort
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 1, 2013
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               As usual, I suggest that skin-on-frame is your best option. There are ultralight - but fairly delicate - rowboat options from the late Platt Monfort (GABoats.com) and other heavier, but tougher, options from another guy . . . . Some can be rigged for sail, as well. 40 - 65lbs, depending on the boat, is a whole lot easier to lug around than 80 or a 100, and SOF boats are inexpensive and quick to build, with no need to compromise sophisticated hull shapes. Good luck with whatever you choose - and John certainly has it right that the simplest boats end up getting used the most! Dave Gentry --- In michalak@yahoogroups.com, <redprospector@...> wrote: Thanks John and Andre for the advice about simplicity.  Thanks for the info on the piccup Andre. I've cartopped a 80lb canoe before but I suspect the width of the piccup will add to the difficulty. I take it Twixt would be a similar weight. Interesting what you say about kayaks John. I re-read the New Kayak shop tonight and noted the Mill Creek kayaks had a sailing rig option.  The boats I like are the lightweight rowing boats like the robote, roar2 and oracle. I like the lines on these very much. I'll go order Jim's book I think, revisit sailing kayaks and have another think.  .    --- In michalak@yahoogroups.com , <basso.asb@...> wrote: I’m about to complete a piccup and since the very beginning I planned to car top her. I think I’ll end up with a hull within a weight range acceptable in terms of designed weight, considering materials used and little modifications I did on my own. The point is that 90 lbs is a lot to car top in my opinion. Handling the boat on the shop I felt it ! hehehe. There are lifters you can build/buy to help but it is just another tool you will have to bring along to launch the boat. Not practical.  As John said, the simpler the better. I’ve decided to trailer my piccup.
               
              If I’d look for a cartopable boat to paddle/sail to carry 2  I would definitely stay below 50 lbs and would think seriously about a canoe. Good luck on your quest !


              redprospector@... escreveu:


              >
              >Hi
              >I wrote something simklar on the Selway Fisher group and got a resonse that was food for thought about competing priorities; quite rightly.

              >I'm looking to build a boat that I can car top to float on a local canal and off the beach in sheltered waters. It will be primarily be for me rowing (not for excercise)/ birdwatching but I may take a couple of my children or my wife  picnicking.

              >My eye has been drawn to several Michalak designs but espcially to
              >Oracle, robote and Vireo 14 as rowboats
              >and to Mixer/Mixer2 as row/ sail boats. These would as far as I can tell allow me the option of sailing too: on my own .

              >Reading around all seem to be cartoppable. Also all seem to match my lack of experience in boat building.

              >Should I think about other options, or are any of the above more suitable for what I describe.

              >kind regards
              >Chris
              >
              >
              >
              ><!-- #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc { font-family: Arial; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd { margin: 10px 0px; font-weight: 700; font-size: 78%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad { margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 0 0; } #actions { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 11px; padding: 10px 0; } #activity { background-color: #e0ecee; float: left; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; padding: 10px; } #activity span { font-weight: 700; } #activity span:first-child { text-transform: uppercase; } #activity span a { color: #5085b6; text-decoration: none; } #activity span span { color: #ff7900; } #activity span .underline { text-decoration: underline; } .attach { clear: both; display: table; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; padding: 10px 0; width: 400px; } .attach div a { text-decoration: none; } .attach img { border: none; padding-right: 5px; } .attach label { display: block; margin-bottom: 5px; } .attach label a { text-decoration: none; } blockquote { margin: 0 0 0 4px; } .bold { font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; font-weight: 700; } .bold a { text-decoration: none; } dd.last p a { font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span { margin-right: 10px; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span.yshortcuts { margin-right: 0; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } .green { color: #628c2a; } .MsoNormal { margin: 0 0 0 0; } o { font-size: 0; } #photos div { float: left; width: 72px; } #photos div div { border: 1px solid #666666; height: 62px; overflow: hidden; width: 62px; } #photos div label { color: #666666; font-size: 10px; overflow: hidden; text-align: center; white-space: nowrap; width: 64px; } #reco-category { font-size: 77%; } #reco-desc { font-size: 77%; } .replbq { margin: 4px; } #ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { /* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/ margin-right: 2px; padding-right: 5px; } #ygrp-mlmsg { font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif; *font-size: small; *font: x-small; } #ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size: inherit; font: 100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea { font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif; } #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code { font:115% monospace; *font-size:100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height: 1.22em; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo { padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco #reco-head { color: #ff7900; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco { margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a { font-size: 130%; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li { font-size: 77%; list-style-type: square; padding: 6px 0; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 8px; } #ygrp-text { font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p { margin: 0 0 1em 0; } #ygrp-text tt { font-size: 120%; } #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right: none !important; } -->

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • h0mmer0uge
                Hi Dave Thanks for this. I actually started off looking into this matter about a year aho. Started on S&G and then got wind of SOF  through
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 2, 2013
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                Hi Dave
                Thanks for this. I actually started off looking into this matter about a year aho. Started on S&G and then got wind of SOF  through stumbling on Tom Yosts group and have visited your website on many occasions. I think your Whitehall design SOF is stunning. My main concern was how the transom would sit if loaded with a couple of small passengers, as compared with a similar ply boat; this put me back to S&G. Do you find your whitehall hall easy to trim as a family boat? I also see you've designed a sailing dinghy that looks very nice.
                I think I'm being pursuaded along the SOF lines again. When I search a photo of a SOF sailing pram keeps appearing, cited as perhaps arising from Robert Morris' book . That looks a nice boat. Good job winter is here. Time to think and read in the dark hours.
                kind regards
                Chris


                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, <michalak@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                 As usual, I suggest that skin-on-frame is your best option. There are ultralight - but fairly delicate - rowboat options from the late Platt Monfort (GABoats.com) and other heavier, but tougher, options from another guy . . . . Some can be rigged for sail, as well. 40 - 65lbs, depending on the boat, is a whole lot easier to lug around than 80 or a 100, and SOF boats are inexpensive and quick to build, with no need to compromise sophisticated hull shapes. Good luck with whatever you choose - and John certainly has it right that the simplest boats end up getting used the most! Dave Gentry ---
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