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Re: [Michalak] Leave The Sail Rig At Home!

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  • john colley
    That is what The wife and i often do.We have a ts16 with 7.5HP OB.We use it as much as a motor cruiser as a yacht.I see nothing wrong with that.Boats are for
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 27, 2013
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      That is what The wife and i often do.We have a ts16 with 7.5HP OB.We use it as much as a motor cruiser as a yacht.I see nothing wrong with that.Boats are for having fun in,Any way you can.


       
      "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
      -Sigurd Olson


      ________________________________
      From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, 27 August 2013 3:28 AM
      Subject: [Michalak] Leave The Sail Rig At Home!



       
      Looking at the home-page photo got me to thinking how much easier it
      might be to just have a motor on the transom and forget about the sail
      rig under certain situations. But it might be nice to have a sail rig
      back home in the garage just in case you have the energy, time and the
      urge to do some messing about without the sound and smells from an iron
      jib.

      Twister is one example that Jim points out might fit into that idea.

      "In fact one idea behind the boat is to use it under power alone, leave
      the sail rig at home and go camping on rivers where oars and sails are
      not useful."

      A few others that come to mind, with bow shapes I think reasonable for
      motoring and have a sail plan, and camping shelter are Fatcat2,
      Philsboat, Caroline. Then there is Electron which goes the other way -
      designed for low power and includes an optional sail plan.

      Of course these are all displacement hulls so low power and not very
      fast, think "motor trawler", but even at 5-6 knots they will out-pace
      sails over the long haul, are light to tow, don't require any ballast
      and what you spend on gas you may save when towing. If you have a motor
      with a charging option and a small solar panel then lots of 12 VDC for
      your electronic gadgets. And of course you can hit the water sooner and
      decide later about adding the sailing stuff.

      Nels

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert
      I like your idea Nels of a motor sailer. Interestingly as I muse over sailboat plans and struggle to get on the water, my wife has been noticing motorboats as
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 28, 2013
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        I like your idea Nels of a motor sailer. Interestingly as I muse over sailboat plans and struggle to get on the water, my wife has been noticing motorboats as we spend time at the beach. She has mentioned renting of course, and even mentioned buying a fishing boat a friend is selling.

        I like the idea of something 2 adults and two kids could potter about in, fishing and cruising when not sailing. Lots of varied lakes, rivers and the Gulf where I am. I studied the plans you mentioned, and I kept seeing "cabin sleeps one and shelters two". I'd like the ability to sleep two adults in the cabin. The wife and I don't mind getting friendly but we are tall.

        Too hot in Florida for a birdwatcher style hull, that coupled with weight rule Caroline and Philsboat out. My only concern with Hapscut is the flat bottom in choppy water. I'd prefer multi chine. Twister perhaps, good weight but the styling throws me and the cockpit is too short to accomodate overnight. Blobster would work, and I watched Youtube videos again that showed 4 adults in the cockpit while sailing. I can't deny the appeal of the walk through bow. It's the weight and complexity of build that throw me.

        Electron #1 on my short list, followed by Fatcat2. I'd need cabin dimensions on both. I still really like Dani Jay if I could work out shelter for it. All three come in at 450 pounds or under...


        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
        >
        > Looking at the home-page photo got me to thinking how much easier it
        > might be to just have a motor on the transom and forget about the sail
        > rig under certain situations. But it might be nice to have a sail rig
        > back home in the garage just in case you have the energy, time and the
        > urge to do some messing about without the sound and smells from an iron
        > jib.
        >
        > Twister is one example that Jim points out might fit into that idea.
        >
        > "In fact one idea behind the boat is to use it under power alone, leave
        > the sail rig at home and go camping on rivers where oars and sails are
        > not useful."
        >
        > A few others that come to mind, with bow shapes I think reasonable for
        > motoring and have a sail plan, and camping shelter are Fatcat2,
        > Philsboat, Caroline. Then there is Electron which goes the other way -
        > designed for low power and includes an optional sail plan.
        >
        > Of course these are all displacement hulls so low power and not very
        > fast, think "motor trawler", but even at 5-6 knots they will out-pace
        > sails over the long haul, are light to tow, don't require any ballast
        > and what you spend on gas you may save when towing. If you have a motor
        > with a charging option and a small solar panel then lots of 12 VDC for
        > your electronic gadgets. And of course you can hit the water sooner and
        > decide later about adding the sailing stuff.
        >
        > Nels
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Mark Albanese
        Robert, Checking Electron plans gives these dimensions: Cabin bulkhead is 4 wide on bottom, 60 at chines, and 36 high. The cabin is 7 long, tapering to 17
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 28, 2013
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          Robert,
          Checking Electron plans gives these dimensions:

          Cabin bulkhead is 4' wide on bottom, 60" at chines, and 36" high.

          The cabin is 7' long, tapering to 17" wide at the front bulkhead. Midway,
          the sole is 42" wide, chine 52". The hight is held pretty constant.

          Vast accommodations were not a priority in this design. Yet, adding in the
          large cockpit does give quite a lot of sprawl space.

          markA
          On Aug 28, 2013 2:54 AM, "Robert" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > I like your idea Nels of a motor sailer. Interestingly as I muse over
          > sailboat plans and struggle to get on the water, my wife has been noticing
          > motorboats as we spend time at the beach. She has mentioned renting of
          > course, and even mentioned buying a fishing boat a friend is selling.
          >
          > I like the idea of something 2 adults and two kids could potter about in,
          > fishing and cruising when not sailing. Lots of varied lakes, rivers and the
          > Gulf where I am. I studied the plans you mentioned, and I kept seeing
          > "cabin sleeps one and shelters two". I'd like the ability to sleep two
          > adults in the cabin. The wife and I don't mind getting friendly but we are
          > tall.
          >
          > Too hot in Florida for a birdwatcher style hull, that coupled with weight
          > rule Caroline and Philsboat out. My only concern with Hapscut is the flat
          > bottom in choppy water. I'd prefer multi chine. Twister perhaps, good
          > weight but the styling throws me and the cockpit is too short to accomodate
          > overnight. Blobster would work, and I watched Youtube videos again that
          > showed 4 adults in the cockpit while sailing. I can't deny the appeal of
          > the walk through bow. It's the weight and complexity of build that throw me.
          >
          > Electron #1 on my short list, followed by Fatcat2. I'd need cabin
          > dimensions on both. I still really like Dani Jay if I could work out
          > shelter for it. All three come in at 450 pounds or under...
          >
          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Looking at the home-page photo got me to thinking how much easier it
          > > might be to just have a motor on the transom and forget about the sail
          > > rig under certain situations. But it might be nice to have a sail rig
          > > back home in the garage just in case you have the energy, time and the
          > > urge to do some messing about without the sound and smells from an iron
          > > jib.
          > >
          > > Twister is one example that Jim points out might fit into that idea.
          > >
          > > "In fact one idea behind the boat is to use it under power alone, leave
          > > the sail rig at home and go camping on rivers where oars and sails are
          > > not useful."
          > >
          > > A few others that come to mind, with bow shapes I think reasonable for
          > > motoring and have a sail plan, and camping shelter are Fatcat2,
          > > Philsboat, Caroline. Then there is Electron which goes the other way -
          > > designed for low power and includes an optional sail plan.
          > >
          > > Of course these are all displacement hulls so low power and not very
          > > fast, think "motor trawler", but even at 5-6 knots they will out-pace
          > > sails over the long haul, are light to tow, don't require any ballast
          > > and what you spend on gas you may save when towing. If you have a motor
          > > with a charging option and a small solar panel then lots of 12 VDC for
          > > your electronic gadgets. And of course you can hit the water sooner and
          > > decide later about adding the sailing stuff.
          > >
          > > Nels
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert
          Thanks Mark. Fits the sleeps one shelters two mode also. Likely most overnights would be solo anyway. Do you mind checking the open cockpit length?
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 30, 2013
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            Thanks Mark. Fits the "sleeps one shelters two" mode also. Likely most overnights would be solo anyway. Do you mind checking the open cockpit length?

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
            >
            > Robert,
            > Checking Electron plans gives these dimensions:
            >
            > Cabin bulkhead is 4' wide on bottom, 60" at chines, and 36" high.
            >
            > The cabin is 7' long, tapering to 17" wide at the front bulkhead. Midway,
            > the sole is 42" wide, chine 52". The hight is held pretty constant.
            >
            > Vast accommodations were not a priority in this design. Yet, adding in the
            > large cockpit does give quite a lot of sprawl space.
            >
            > markA
            > On Aug 28, 2013 2:54 AM, "Robert" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > I like your idea Nels of a motor sailer. Interestingly as I muse over
            > > sailboat plans and struggle to get on the water, my wife has been noticing
            > > motorboats as we spend time at the beach. She has mentioned renting of
            > > course, and even mentioned buying a fishing boat a friend is selling.
            > >
            > > I like the idea of something 2 adults and two kids could potter about in,
            > > fishing and cruising when not sailing. Lots of varied lakes, rivers and the
            > > Gulf where I am. I studied the plans you mentioned, and I kept seeing
            > > "cabin sleeps one and shelters two". I'd like the ability to sleep two
            > > adults in the cabin. The wife and I don't mind getting friendly but we are
            > > tall.
            > >
            > > Too hot in Florida for a birdwatcher style hull, that coupled with weight
            > > rule Caroline and Philsboat out. My only concern with Hapscut is the flat
            > > bottom in choppy water. I'd prefer multi chine. Twister perhaps, good
            > > weight but the styling throws me and the cockpit is too short to accomodate
            > > overnight. Blobster would work, and I watched Youtube videos again that
            > > showed 4 adults in the cockpit while sailing. I can't deny the appeal of
            > > the walk through bow. It's the weight and complexity of build that throw me.
            > >
            > > Electron #1 on my short list, followed by Fatcat2. I'd need cabin
            > > dimensions on both. I still really like Dani Jay if I could work out
            > > shelter for it. All three come in at 450 pounds or under...
            > >
            > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Looking at the home-page photo got me to thinking how much easier it
            > > > might be to just have a motor on the transom and forget about the sail
            > > > rig under certain situations. But it might be nice to have a sail rig
            > > > back home in the garage just in case you have the energy, time and the
            > > > urge to do some messing about without the sound and smells from an iron
            > > > jib.
            > > >
            > > > Twister is one example that Jim points out might fit into that idea.
            > > >
            > > > "In fact one idea behind the boat is to use it under power alone, leave
            > > > the sail rig at home and go camping on rivers where oars and sails are
            > > > not useful."
            > > >
            > > > A few others that come to mind, with bow shapes I think reasonable for
            > > > motoring and have a sail plan, and camping shelter are Fatcat2,
            > > > Philsboat, Caroline. Then there is Electron which goes the other way -
            > > > designed for low power and includes an optional sail plan.
            > > >
            > > > Of course these are all displacement hulls so low power and not very
            > > > fast, think "motor trawler", but even at 5-6 knots they will out-pace
            > > > sails over the long haul, are light to tow, don't require any ballast
            > > > and what you spend on gas you may save when towing. If you have a motor
            > > > with a charging option and a small solar panel then lots of 12 VDC for
            > > > your electronic gadgets. And of course you can hit the water sooner and
            > > > decide later about adding the sailing stuff.
            > > >
            > > > Nels
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Mark Albanese
            Cockpit is 6 between the bulkheads. The benches are 4 , the rest taken up by the battery boxes fwd. I don t recall now how this last came to be. We planned on
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 30, 2013
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              Cockpit is 6' between the bulkheads. The benches are 4', the rest taken up
              by the battery boxes fwd. I don't recall now how this last came to be. We
              planned on 6 group 31's, which are only about 14" long, leaving lots of
              room for odds and ends. Perhaps to ensure ventilation when charging.
              On Aug 30, 2013 10:40 AM, "Robert" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Thanks Mark. Fits the "sleeps one shelters two" mode also. Likely most
              > overnights would be solo anyway. Do you mind checking the open cockpit
              > length?
              >
              > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Robert,
              > > Checking Electron plans gives these dimensions:
              > >
              > > Cabin bulkhead is 4' wide on bottom, 60" at chines, and 36" high.
              > >
              > > The cabin is 7' long, tapering to 17" wide at the front bulkhead. Midway,
              > > the sole is 42" wide, chine 52". The hight is held pretty constant.
              > >
              > > Vast accommodations were not a priority in this design. Yet, adding in
              > the
              > > large cockpit does give quite a lot of sprawl space.
              > >
              > > markA
              > > On Aug 28, 2013 2:54 AM, "Robert" <footstepfollower@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > **
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I like your idea Nels of a motor sailer. Interestingly as I muse over
              > > > sailboat plans and struggle to get on the water, my wife has been
              > noticing
              > > > motorboats as we spend time at the beach. She has mentioned renting of
              > > > course, and even mentioned buying a fishing boat a friend is selling.
              > > >
              > > > I like the idea of something 2 adults and two kids could potter about
              > in,
              > > > fishing and cruising when not sailing. Lots of varied lakes, rivers
              > and the
              > > > Gulf where I am. I studied the plans you mentioned, and I kept seeing
              > > > "cabin sleeps one and shelters two". I'd like the ability to sleep two
              > > > adults in the cabin. The wife and I don't mind getting friendly but we
              > are
              > > > tall.
              > > >
              > > > Too hot in Florida for a birdwatcher style hull, that coupled with
              > weight
              > > > rule Caroline and Philsboat out. My only concern with Hapscut is the
              > flat
              > > > bottom in choppy water. I'd prefer multi chine. Twister perhaps, good
              > > > weight but the styling throws me and the cockpit is too short to
              > accomodate
              > > > overnight. Blobster would work, and I watched Youtube videos again that
              > > > showed 4 adults in the cockpit while sailing. I can't deny the appeal
              > of
              > > > the walk through bow. It's the weight and complexity of build that
              > throw me.
              > > >
              > > > Electron #1 on my short list, followed by Fatcat2. I'd need cabin
              > > > dimensions on both. I still really like Dani Jay if I could work out
              > > > shelter for it. All three come in at 450 pounds or under...
              > > >
              > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Looking at the home-page photo got me to thinking how much easier it
              > > > > might be to just have a motor on the transom and forget about the
              > sail
              > > > > rig under certain situations. But it might be nice to have a sail rig
              > > > > back home in the garage just in case you have the energy, time and
              > the
              > > > > urge to do some messing about without the sound and smells from an
              > iron
              > > > > jib.
              > > > >
              > > > > Twister is one example that Jim points out might fit into that idea.
              > > > >
              > > > > "In fact one idea behind the boat is to use it under power alone,
              > leave
              > > > > the sail rig at home and go camping on rivers where oars and sails
              > are
              > > > > not useful."
              > > > >
              > > > > A few others that come to mind, with bow shapes I think reasonable
              > for
              > > > > motoring and have a sail plan, and camping shelter are Fatcat2,
              > > > > Philsboat, Caroline. Then there is Electron which goes the other way
              > -
              > > > > designed for low power and includes an optional sail plan.
              > > > >
              > > > > Of course these are all displacement hulls so low power and not very
              > > > > fast, think "motor trawler", but even at 5-6 knots they will out-pace
              > > > > sails over the long haul, are light to tow, don't require any ballast
              > > > > and what you spend on gas you may save when towing. If you have a
              > motor
              > > > > with a charging option and a small solar panel then lots of 12 VDC
              > for
              > > > > your electronic gadgets. And of course you can hit the water sooner
              > and
              > > > > decide later about adding the sailing stuff.
              > > > >
              > > > > Nels
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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