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Tacking - difficulties

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  • Gerard Mittelstaedt
    Tacking a light weight boat and / or a boat with a bluff bow is challenging. Light weight boats often have a lack of momentum to carry the boat through the
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 18, 2013
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      Tacking a light weight boat and / or a boat with a bluff bow is challenging.

      Light weight boats often have a lack of momentum to carry the boat
      through the "eye of the wind" onto the new tack.
      Added to that difficulty having a bluff bow which, if it catches a wave
      can stop you dead in the water adds to the challenge.
      Sometimes it just can not be done and one has to "wear" around with a gybe.

      When my father and I were sailing a light weight catamaran with a sloop rig
      (jib and main) the drill for a fast tack was to
      - fall off a bit and build up speed
      - then put the helm over but not to put the rudder over more than 45 degrees
           (more angle than that acts too much like a brake)
      - at the same time tighten up (sheet in) the main sail and
          slightly loosen the sheet on the jib.
      - as soon as you are directly into the wind loosen the main sail sheet
           (otherwise it will attempt to cause the boat to weathervane... and you do NOT want that.
      - you could wait a little bit later to loosen the jib sheet and cause it to backwind,
           forcing the bow around.
      - after the boat hull turns enough sheet in the jib tight to help pull the bow around some more.
      - then after you are aimed on the new tack... and perhaps slightly further over than
          the eventual tack... re-adjust both sails and make progress on the new tack.

      Even with all this activity, sometimes it does not work.
      Do not beat yourself up over it.  At one time or another we all miss a tack.
      ---
      If you have a 2 masted rig without a jib treat the forward sail much like a jib,
      and the aft mast as you would a main on a sloop rig, do not forget to loosen the
      sheet on the aft sail when pointed into the wind or it will contribute to weathervane .
      --
      If you have a cat rig (1 sail) keep power on - ie. the sail drawing until
      you are up into the wind, then immediately slack off so that it will not try to weathervane
      the boat.

      Generally, think of the dynamic processes and how the sails are levering the boat around
      as well as providing forward movement.
      ---
      My best training was tacking a sloop rigged catamaran down 7+ miles of narrow channel,
      being too proud to use the motor.
      --
      Good luck - and practice helps.  Also, practice in moderate wind conditions is best.

      - Gerard Mittelstaedt
         McAllen, TX
         USA
    • Matti Asikainen
      I have a self made sail-row Dory which is hard to tack, due to a high bow and propable poor placement of the twin leeboard. I learned a trick: when I have
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 19, 2013
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        I have a self made sail-row Dory which is hard to tack, due to a high bow
        and propable poor placement of the twin leeboard. I learned a trick: when I
        have turned against the wind I change all my body weight on the side I´m
        tacking. The mast heels over and it helps the sail to start to draw.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Martin Houston
        A couple of times I had trouble tacking KaaNoo in the Texas 200. I usually let her off the wind till she picks up some speed & she goes right through. One time
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 19, 2013
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          A couple of times I had trouble tacking KaaNoo in the Texas 200. I usually let her off the wind till she picks up some speed & she goes right through. One time she just wouldn't & I was running out of ICW so I wore ship & jibed. It was kind of scary but she made it through & didn't run agground.
          Martin




          ________________________________
          From: Matti Asikainen <matti.asikainen51@...>
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 5:16 AM
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Tacking - difficulties



           
          I have a self made sail-row Dory which is hard to tack, due to a high bow
          and propable poor placement of the twin leeboard. I learned a trick: when I
          have turned against the wind I change all my body weight on the side I´m
          tacking. The mast heels over and it helps the sail to start to draw.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Hilbert
          Good day. I have sailed a penobscot 14 and have the same problem , here I usede the jib to push me through the wind. but then I read an article of John
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 20, 2013
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            Good day. I have sailed a penobscot 14 and have the same problem , here I usede the jib to push me through the wind. but then I read an article of John welsford saying you should put more waight forward so that it wil dig in and the stern wil be lighter so with the wind in the sails wil turn easier.the reason for not tacking easy [for the penobscot] is it has a long keel in the stern to keep trak rowing and going straight. what can also help is keeping your dagger board down on witch it wil turn.but putting more waight forward would help.
            greetings Hilbert.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Norm
            If I anticipate difficulties tacking my balance lug boat due to wind and waves, I set the sculling oar in place over the stern. When I tack and get just up to
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 20, 2013
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              If I anticipate difficulties tacking my balance lug boat due to wind and waves, I set the sculling oar in place over the stern. When I tack and get just up to the eye of the wind, I pull or push 3 strokes sideways on the sculling oar, bring the stern smartly around and the bow through the wind. I have used this procedure on 3 single-sail boats over the past 30 years and it works great. Especially useful if short tacking in a channel guarded on either side by hard stuff like rocks and concrete.

              Norm Wolfe

              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Hilbert" <h.gorte@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good day. I have sailed a penobscot 14 and have the same problem , here I usede the jib to push me through the wind. but then I read an article of John welsford saying you should put more waight forward so that it wil dig in and the stern wil be lighter so with the wind in the sails wil turn easier.the reason for not tacking easy [for the penobscot] is it has a long keel in the stern to keep trak rowing and going straight. what can also help is keeping your dagger board down on witch it wil turn.but putting more waight forward would help.
              > greetings Hilbert.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Mark Albanese
              All of the suggestion in this thread have been helpful. I m trying them all this week at the lake. The one I found again yesterday is to not be too heavy on
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 20, 2013
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                All of the suggestion in this thread have been helpful. I'm trying them all
                this week at the lake.

                The one I found again yesterday is to not be too heavy on the rudder. In
                smooth water, Jewelbox jr _wants_ to tack. So no use applying the brake.

                Should help when things are bouncier, too.
                On Aug 20, 2013 4:40 AM, "Norm" <norman.wolfe@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > If I anticipate difficulties tacking my balance lug boat due to wind and
                > waves, I set the sculling oar in place over the stern. When I tack and get
                > just up to the eye of the wind, I pull or push 3 strokes sideways on the
                > sculling oar, bring the stern smartly around and the bow through the wind.
                > I have used this procedure on 3 single-sail boats over the past 30 years
                > and it works great. Especially useful if short tacking in a channel guarded
                > on either side by hard stuff like rocks and concrete.
                >
                > Norm Wolfe
                >
                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Hilbert" <h.gorte@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Good day. I have sailed a penobscot 14 and have the same problem , here
                > I usede the jib to push me through the wind. but then I read an article of
                > John welsford saying you should put more waight forward so that it wil dig
                > in and the stern wil be lighter so with the wind in the sails wil turn
                > easier.the reason for not tacking easy [for the penobscot] is it has a long
                > keel in the stern to keep trak rowing and going straight. what can also
                > help is keeping your dagger board down on witch it wil turn.but putting
                > more waight forward would help.
                > > greetings Hilbert.
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Martin Houston
                I did not mention another method I use to force the bow through the eye of the wind, sculling with the ruder. Swimming the stern around with the tiller like
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 20, 2013
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                  I did not mention another method I use to force the bow through the eye of the wind, sculling with the ruder. Swimming the stern around with the tiller like the tail of a fish. Has got me out of irons many times. It can be a workout & sometimes won't work but oftentimes does.




                  ________________________________
                  From: Mark Albanese <marka97203@...>
                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:33 PM
                  Subject: [Michalak] Re: Tacking - difficulties


                  All of the suggestion in this thread have been helpful. I'm trying them all
                  this week at the lake.

                  The one I found again yesterday is to not be too heavy on the rudder. In
                  smooth water, Jewelbox jr _wants_ to tack. So no use applying the brake.

                  Should help when things are bouncier, too.
                  On Aug 20, 2013 4:40 AM, "Norm" <norman.wolfe@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > If I anticipate difficulties tacking my balance lug boat due to wind and
                  > waves, I set the sculling oar in place over the stern. When I tack and get
                  > just up to the eye of the wind, I pull or push 3 strokes sideways on the
                  > sculling oar, bring the stern smartly around and the bow through the wind.
                  > I have used this procedure on 3 single-sail boats over the past 30 years
                  > and it works great. Especially useful if short tacking in a channel guarded
                  > on either side by hard stuff like rocks and concrete.
                  >
                  > Norm Wolfe
                  >
                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Hilbert" <h.gorte@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Good day. I have sailed a penobscot 14 and have the same problem , here
                  > I usede the jib to push me through the wind. but then I read an article of
                  > John welsford saying you should put more waight forward so that it wil dig
                  > in and the stern wil be lighter so with the wind in the sails wil turn
                  > easier.the reason for not tacking easy [for the penobscot] is it has a long
                  > keel in the stern to keep trak rowing and going straight. what can also
                  > help is keeping your dagger board down on witch it wil turn.but putting
                  > more waight forward would help.
                  > > greetings Hilbert.
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >

                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John Kohnen
                  Sometimes when I m out on my local lake I ll see the U of O sailing team practicing in their Flying Juniors. They use a real small triangular course, so they
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 23, 2013
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                    Sometimes when I'm out on my local lake I'll see the U of O sailing team
                    practicing in their Flying Juniors. They use a real small triangular
                    course, so they get lots of practice coming about, jibing and rounding
                    buoys. When coming about they "roll tack." Most (perhaps all) small boats
                    will turn the opposite way when you heel them. To roll tack, the crew
                    dives to the forward, lee side when the helm is put down. The heel makes
                    the boat want to turn up into the wind, as does the weight shift, which
                    brings the CLR forward. When the boat gets just barely past the eye of the
                    wind, the crew moves aft to move the CLR aft and make the boat fall off
                    faster. The college kids really heel the boats, and those FJs really spin
                    around! The same principles can help even non-racers come about more
                    surely in dodgy conditions.

                    I've been playing around a cat yawl this summer, and I really love the
                    tricks that little mizzen adds to one's boat handling arsenal. :o)

                    On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 04:16:04 -0700, Matti wrote:

                    > I have a self made sail-row Dory which is hard to tack, due to a high bow
                    > and propable poor placement of the twin leeboard. I learned a trick:
                    > when I
                    > have turned against the wind I change all my body weight on the side I´m
                    >
                    > tacking. The mast heels over and it helps the sail to start to draw.

                    --
                    John (jkohnen@...)
                    When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm
                    beginning to believe it. (Clarence Darrow)
                  • jhargrovewright2@juno.com
                    John, Very clear description of the roll tack. All small boat skippers should at least know how and practice it occasionally. When the wind gets up the
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 23, 2013
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                      John, Very clear description of the roll tack. All small boat skippers should at least know how and practice it occasionally. When the wind gets up the windage overcomes the momentum....since small boat go so slow. Bigger boats can accelerate in higher wind and take advantage of that momentum.

                      ---------- Original Message ----------
                      From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>




                      Sometimes when I'm out on my local lake I'll see the U of O sailing team
                      practicing in their Flying Juniors. They use a real small triangular
                      course, so they get lots of practice coming about, jibing and rounding
                      buoys. When coming about they "roll tack." Most (perhaps all) small boats
                      will turn the opposite way when you heel them. To roll tack, the crew
                      dives to the forward, lee side when the helm is put down. The heel makes
                      the boat want to turn up into the wind, as does the weight shift, which
                      brings the CLR forward. When the boat gets just barely past the eye of the
                      wind, the crew moves aft to move the CLR aft and make the boat fall off
                      faster. The college kids really heel the boats, and those FJs really spin
                      around! The same principles can help even non-racers come about more
                      surely in dodgy conditions.

                      I've been playing around a cat yawl this summer, and I really love the
                      tricks that little mizzen adds to one's boat handling arsenal. :o)








                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ezchat33
                      Roll tack- demonstrated. Look at where they move in the boat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iEWmS5olp8
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 26, 2013
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                        Roll tack- demonstrated. Look at where they move in the boat.

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iEWmS5olp8
                      • ezchat33
                        ... Very often one sees self-taught sailors sitting too far aft. That s to be expected because one cannot see the stern dragging when one is in the boat, and
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 26, 2013
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                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Hilbert" <h.gorte@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I read an article of John welsford saying you should put more waight forward so that it wil dig in and the stern wil be lighter


                          Very often one sees self-taught sailors sitting too far aft. That's to be expected because one cannot see the stern dragging when one is in the boat, and it is tempting to sit close to the stern. Look at some of the videos of guys in homebuilt boats at messabouts. The problem is epidemic. One can get away with that mistake in most, but not all, conditions. A square chined boat is gonna make the problem a lot worse. The solution is a tiller extension (AKA telescopic paint roller handle extention on this forum) to get the boat weight centered and both ends out of the water as much as possible so she spins around the board.
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