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Ok I need a Dorado size of the AF4 Grand

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  • pwatsonascc
    Here is a email I sent Jim, no answer yet Jim, I think I need a AF4 Grand size of the Dorado. My 90HP Nissan outboard control finally wore out on my Voyager 24
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 25, 2003
      Here is a email I sent Jim, no answer yet

      Jim, I think I need a AF4 Grand size of the Dorado.

      My 90HP Nissan outboard control finally wore out on my Voyager 24
      foot pontoon last week it's a 1993. I have been mad at it anyway
      for several reason, mainly it's a pain in the butt, dies every time
      I use it, and the carbs clog up if not used weekly. The shifter has
      never been easy to use and takes lots of torque to shift. I have
      rebuilt it twice to no avail.
      I added a damaged 3ed pontoon in the middle 2 years ago, after
      patching some cracks with epoxy and glass, making it a tri pontoon
      and it does plane at full power 3000 to 5000 RPM, but at about 6
      gallons an hour, lousy mileage. The 3ed pontoon does make it plane
      more or less but not in the normal sense of a single hull boat.

      So having built the Dave Cornell $200 sailboat
      http://www.geocities.com/pwatsonascc/
      I decided, its the perfect time to convince the boss (wife of 29
      years, I am 49) that I need a new boat. By the way do you know of
      any 12 step programs for this, I have a kayak, canoe, sailboat,
      pontoon boat now? But I digress.
      We want to be able to take out our family and friends up to 8 people
      at a time. We want to be able to pull a skier.
      In short we want to make a homemade boat to replace the pontoon, I
      want to be able to duck out of the wind like a windshield runabout,
      I want a cuddy cabin if only to put things up out of the weather and
      for small kids. My wife likes the looks of your AF4 Grand,
      especially the walkthrough cabin area, this is Texas you know and
      its hotter than heck all summer. I have also been looking at the
      Skiff America and your Dorado.
      We have a trailer house on Lake Texoma which is a very large and
      long lake on the Tornado Alley between Texas and Oklahoma that can
      go from calm to 4 foot white caps with 40 miles an hour winds with a
      sudden thunderstorm or cold front.
      I have had my triple pontoon out in this stuff and it eats it up,
      cutting right through the waves with ease and of course its self
      bailing.
      Most of the time the AF4 boat type would be great. We really would
      want to cut the cabin down to half its current length and have more
      sitting area.

      I have read on the Michalak's Small Boat Designs yahoo group that
      they say you consider the Skiff America as already filling this
      void. Somehow I like the looks better of your AF4 and Dorado vs. the
      Skiff America, your lines are cleaner and more modern looking. I
      just think the flat bottom of the AF4 Grand would be a hull slapper
      in those white caps and your Dorado is too small for our crowd, and
      the Skiff America has too small of a sitting area.

      What do you think? Another boat nut trying to put to many
      conflicting objectives and compromises into one design?
      Regards.


      Paul Watson C.P.M., pwatson@...
      Senior Buyer UTD University of TX @ Dallas
    • vexatious2001
      ... Jim only rarely designs boats over 20 feet anymore, and mostly prefers to stay under 18 feet. He sells relatively few designs for boats over those sizes,
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 28, 2003
        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "pwatsonascc" <pwatsonascc@y...>
        wrote:
        > Here is a email I sent Jim, no answer yet
        >
        > Jim, I think I need a AF4 Grand size of the Dorado.
        >



        Jim only rarely designs boats over 20 feet anymore,
        and mostly prefers to stay under 18 feet. He sells
        relatively few designs for boats over those sizes,
        mainly because few people want to build boats that
        big (usually because of space or cost restraints)

        I imagine he would design it as a "commisioned"
        design, which means it would cost more than buying
        a set of his existing designs.

        But, judging from the prices I have seen, having Jim
        custom design you a boat will cost you less than
        buying a stock Bolger design such as a Micro or
        Tennessee, so we are still not talking about a whole
        lot of money.

        He does reserve the right to sell the design to the
        general public, although sometimes that doesn't result
        in a lot of sales. I was rather surprised to recently
        hear that no copies of the Dorado plans have been sold
        yet, except to the prototype builder, and also to
        me.

        Of course, he has had other designs that sat and gathered
        dust for a while and then began selling like hot cakes.

        There just aint no predicting what you strange boat-building
        types will want to build.
      • Mark A.
        Max, I think he does have to find some excitement to the proposal also. At $100, you cannot just order up anything at all. BTW Dorado is an inspired piece of
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 28, 2003
          Max,

          I think he does have to find some excitement to the proposal also. At $100, you cannot
          just order up anything at all.

          BTW Dorado is an inspired piece of work. It's going to suit some wish lists for quite a
          long time to come.

          Mark

          vexatious2001 wrote:

          > But, judging from the prices I have seen, having Jim
          > custom design you a boat will cost you less than
          > buying a stock Bolger design such as a Micro or
          > Tennessee, so we are still not talking about a whole
          > lot of money.
          >
        • pwatsonascc
          ... At $100, you cannot ... wish lists for quite a ... Well you make some good points the very best thing about Jim is his KISS Keep It Simple Stupid design
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 28, 2003
            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A." <marka@h...> wrote:
            > Max,
            >
            > I think he does have to find some excitement to the proposal also.
            At $100, you cannot
            > just order up anything at all.
            >
            > BTW Dorado is an inspired piece of work. It's going to suit some
            wish lists for quite a
            > long time to come.
            >
            > Mark
            >
            > vexatious2001 wrote:
            >
            > > But, judging from the prices I have seen, having Jim
            > > custom design you a boat will cost you less than
            > > buying a stock Bolger design such as a Micro or
            > > Tennessee, so we are still not talking about a whole
            > > lot of money.
            > >

            Well you make some good points the very best thing about Jim is his
            KISS Keep It Simple Stupid design and building ideas short,
            brilliant and the fast way to the end product. I went ahead and
            purchased the AF4Grand plans through the Duckworks site. I am now
            looking at both the AF4 Grand and
            http://www.bateau.com/plans/power/NV23.php3
            the brand new 23 foot semi-v Lobster boat style, it will do
            everything I want but its a much more complicated and longer to
            build boat. I simply love to read Jims news-letters, it helped me
            just make a new Balanced Lug polytarp sail for my 15' Dave Carnel
            designed boat http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/
            His discussions of hatches, props, rowing effort and sail designs
            have given me uncounted hours of reading time.
            Regards,
            Paul
          • Mark A.
            Paul, The Novi is a handsome boat. But ( ouch! ) the motor is at least twice the size of Dorado s and the enclosed cabin does seem tiny. The specs and write up
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 28, 2003
              Paul,

              The Novi is a handsome boat. But ( ouch! ) the motor is at least twice the size of
              Dorado's and the enclosed cabin does seem tiny. The specs and write up differ on the
              maximum displacement.

              If Jim really cannot be interested in the larger Dorado, then if you could be happy with
              the same beam as the original, it might be fairly simple to stretch it oneself using Gregg
              Carlson's Hull Designer program in the same way Jim added 30" to the Toto to get LarsBoat.

              Blowing it up all 'round might be fraught with unexpected problems, though there are some
              who'd have the nerve.

              You're probably committed to the larger motor anyway. Another you might consider is Arch Davis'
              http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/davis_jiffyv22.html

              Ain't it grand to be faced with this kind of big decision?
              Mark



              pwatsonascc wrote:
              >
              > Well you make some good points the very best thing about Jim is his
              > KISS Keep It Simple Stupid design and building ideas short,
              > brilliant and the fast way to the end product. I went ahead and
              > purchased the AF4Grand plans through the Duckworks site. I am now
              > looking at both the AF4 Grand and
              > http://www.bateau.com/plans/power/NV23.php3
              > the brand new 23 foot semi-v Lobster boat style, it will do
              > everything I want but its a much more complicated and longer to
              > build boat.
            • Ashley
              Hi all, Just back from my maiden 5 day cruise in Dorado. Will be sending story and pics to Duckworks. (And pics in Michalak Photos Only) About the comment on
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 29, 2003
                Hi all,
                Just back from my maiden 5 day cruise in Dorado. Will be sending
                story and pics to Duckworks. (And pics in Michalak Photos Only)

                About the comment on motor size in Novi -

                I put the max 30 hp on Dorado. I have seen 25 kts in good conditions
                (~30 mph) but this is more academic. I think 20 hp would do very
                nicely for any sane running around in Dorado, unless you're carrying
                quite a load.

                Yes Max, I did retrim the motor, and it gave less wave and more speed.

                This is a very efficient hull, and is what attracted me initially to
                AF4 concept and eventually to Dorado. 4 tanks of fuel have shown, at
                26 litres/tank = 7 hours/tank of my running around. Less than 4 lt/hr
                ( ~ 1 US gal/hr). Extraordinary economy. New Tohatsu 30 hp (same as
                Tohatsu 25 hp but without the restrictor, and only Aust $70 dearer).

                My typical running around includes all speeds from idle for 4 kt
                zones and odd bursts of full tilt and fast cruise, but mostly
                cruising at 10 - 15 kts (on the GPS)

                Jim was sceptical when I told him of my initial figures, as they are
                way different from his antique outboards. I figure 10 hp at the
                powerhead in an old motor will use more fuel and give less thrust
                than 10 hp at powerhead on a modern motor. Efficiencies in design and
                improvements to reduce friction/power train losses will give more
                thrust from each powerhead hp, and improvements in combustion chamber
                design and efficiency will contribute to reduced fuel consumption.
                Now I've got 4 tanks experience to show.

                Anyway, this is a cheap boat to run. A boat with a bigger outboard
                will cost much more to run. In 5 days I used 2 tanks, and I did a LOT
                of miles.

                The cabin is perfect camping on board for one. I found Dorado
                supremely comfortable for living onboard by myself. I won't bother
                trying to sleep 2 in it (though quite OK for afternoon snuggles - but
                there is always room for those no matter the vessel :) AF4 has a
                bigger flat floor area (and a bit more headroom) so gives more
                versatility with the interior. Just have to take it a bit easier in a
                chop.

                On that note, Dorado is still a flattie. Though I have never been in
                an AF4 I am sure that a chop is much more comfortable in Dorado.
                Also, by putting some weight in the bow, like moving a passenger
                forward, lets Dorado cut a bad chop with minimal discomfort.
                Speed determines comfort in a chop.

                Part of the efficiency comes from light weight. My trailer weighs 100
                kg more than my boat! More weight = more draft = more motor/expense =
                more weight... The only downsides of a light shallow draft boat is
                susceptibility to wind at low speed, and that it goes over the top
                rather than through a seaway. Otherwise for me it's all upside.

                Have only taken a max of 4 people at any one time, with no problems.
                Will be trying it at Easter with all 7 of us aboard. Boat is licenced
                for max 7 people - NSW regs. Cockpit very comfortable for 4.

                I am now going to sell my 24' Gaff Cutter, as Dorado is much easier
                to live on, and get around in. (My cutter is the Paketi design in 40
                Wooden Boats - the only Aussie design in the Woodenboat catalogue -
                it's the full cabin version).

                About a bigger boat -

                It would be very easy to lengthen a Dorado, as the back half of the
                boat has the same cross section from midships to stern. How it would
                affect performance/seaworthiness is anybody's guess.

                The cheapest way to get afloat is to buy a second hand boat that
                meets your criterion, and save the time/effort of building. You don't
                get the intangible benefits of building your own, though.

                One observation of my cruise. Apart from charter boats (which were
                full of people) most boats seemed to have only one or two people on
                board. I suspect that this would be the case for most boats, much of
                the time. You can charter a larger vessel when you want a real
                holiday with the family, and save the considerable cost of ownership
                of boat capacity that is not always used. My 2 c.

                All boats are a compromise. Every boat has compromises. The hard part
                is finding the right compromises for yourself, but then that's fun,
                too.

                Whew, sorry, this turned into a rant - must have been group
                withdrawl. Saw the thread and thought I'd toss some grist for the
                mill.

                Have fun - I hope the weather is getting warmer in the US, for more
                boating.

                Ashley

                PS Max, Oracle looks great.

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A." <marka@h...> wrote:
                > Paul,
                >
                > The Novi is a handsome boat. But ( ouch! ) the motor is at least
                twice the size of
                > Dorado's and the enclosed cabin does seem tiny. The specs and write
                up differ on the
                > maximum displacement.
                >
                > If Jim really cannot be interested in the larger Dorado, then if
                you could be happy with
                > the same beam as the original, it might be fairly simple to stretch
                it oneself using Gregg
                > Carlson's Hull Designer program in the same way Jim added 30" to
                the Toto to get LarsBoat.
                >
                > Blowing it up all 'round might be fraught with unexpected problems,
                though there are some
                > who'd have the nerve.
                >
                > You're probably committed to the larger motor anyway. Another you
                might consider is Arch Davis'
                > http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/davis_jiffyv22.html
                >
                > Ain't it grand to be faced with this kind of big decision?
                > Mark
                >
              • vexatious2001
                Another alternative is Tollman s Alaskan Skiff. Although a flat-bottomed boat, such as the AF4G, is maybe not the ideal hull for rough water, commercial
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 29, 2003
                  Another alternative is Tollman's Alaskan Skiff.

                  Although a flat-bottomed boat, such as the AF4G,
                  is maybe not the ideal hull for rough water,
                  commercial fishermen, and others who make their
                  living on the water, do use flat-bottomed craft.

                  check-out the "lumberyard skiffs" @

                  http://www.oldwharf.com/


                  Also, see similiar boats at

                  http://www.perssonmfg.com/SkiffsFrame2Source1.htm


                  An AF4G, maybe built a bit heavier than drawn, could
                  handle some rough water, though not at planning speeds.

                  Even a super-heavy AF4G, however, would be be over-powered
                  with anything over 50 hp.

                  I hope to build an AF4G sometime in the not-too-distant
                  future to replace my AF4 (always a bigger boat) and power
                  it with twin 18's or maybe a single 35, all of which i already
                  have on hand.

                  I also have a little-used 1979 Johnson 75 hp outboard sitting
                  on a cart out in the garage, and have considered asking
                  Jim to design an AF4/ AF4G-style boat that is about the
                  same length as the "G", but maybe a foot or so wider, with
                  a bit-higher cabin area, and much heavier scantlings (on
                  par with the skiffs in the (2) links above) to provide an
                  eventual home for this 75.

                  Although this AF4H (Humungus) project would be way, way off
                  in the future, I can see where down the road Jim's
                  fame as a designer will grow and I anticipate that the
                  price for his services will grow. As has been pointed
                  out before, 20 years ago Bolger's plans for simple boats were
                  farely cheap. They aint so cheap any more.

                  That is why, for the past couple of years, I have written
                  numerous checks to Jim to buy plans, many at "prototype"
                  prices.

                  And why I may go ahead and "commision" the Humungus project
                  now rather than waiting.

                  Someday they aint gonna be so cheap.

                  Max
                • pwatsonascc
                  ... Looked at the Toolman Alaskian Skiff, its really to big and heavy does not get that great of milage ... Been looking at the Sea Simmoms Skiff same kind of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 29, 2003
                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vexatious2001" <cadbury@s...>
                    wrote:
                    > Another alternative is Tollman's Alaskan Skiff.
                    >

                    Looked at the Toolman Alaskian Skiff, its really to big and heavy
                    does not get that great of milage

                    > Although a flat-bottomed boat, such as the AF4G,
                    > is maybe not the ideal hull for rough water,
                    > commercial fishermen, and others who make their
                    > living on the water, do use flat-bottomed craft.
                    >
                    > check-out the "lumberyard skiffs" @
                    Been looking at the Sea Simmoms Skiff same kind of design.
                    http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/#Simmonshttp://by-the-
                    sea.com/archdavisdesign/davis_jiffy22.html
                    Also was looking a the Arch Davis Jiffy V-22 and Jiffy 22
                    and the Bluejacket 24 http://www.messing-
                    about.com/smallboats/bluejacket.htm
                    You are right all of these boats are getting 8 hours out of a
                    6gallon tank of gas in a day. I went looking locally at boats just
                    to see, and they are all deep V's with hugh V8 in/out boards or
                    pontoons, not much inbetween. Thats where the homemade boats are
                    filling the gap. Besides when I get out in my $200 polytarp lugg
                    sailboat and keep up with production sleek fiberglass boats on local
                    lakes you should see the jaws drop. Fiberglass just ways a lot
                    compaired to the light weigh of plywood and epoxy and takes lots of
                    power to push along.
                    Have to say the Dorado is a great looker. I am real confilcted.
                    Right move is to upgrade my 90 Nissan 2cycle with a 4 stroke and new
                    steering on my pontoon which is after all paid for and can carry 12
                    folks. Typically its just me or wife and kid, but we have a lake
                    house so we get the family brother and sisters over with kids.
                    I really need a fleet one for each usage. I already have 4 now,
                    Kayak, Canoe, home made sail boat, and 24' pontoon.
                    Regards,
                    Paul, Plano Texas
                  • Mark A.
                    Glad you still enjoy your boat, Ashley! I ll even subscribe to Duckworks if I have to in order to get the entire tale. Inserting a section is a time honored
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 29, 2003
                      Glad you still enjoy your boat, Ashley! I'll even subscribe to Duckworks if I have to in
                      order to get the entire tale.

                      Inserting a section is a time honored way of getting a larger boat. The result should go
                      as fast at displacement speeds with the same or lower power: The theory is that the added
                      waterline will outperform the detriment of extra weight.

                      As you rightly point out, Dorado would be easy to do this to. The sharky nose would need
                      no change at all up to the lengths that Paul is thinking of.

                      Planing would be experimental, though I can't see myself how that would be spoiled. The
                      thing to check with Hull Designer is how it floats at rest.

                      Cheers,
                      Mark

                      Ashley wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi all,
                      > Just back from my maiden 5 day cruise in Dorado. Will be sending
                      > story and pics to Duckworks. (And pics in Michalak Photos Only)

                      > It would be very easy to lengthen a Dorado, as the back half of the
                      > boat has the same cross section from midships to stern. How it would
                      > affect performance/seaworthiness is anybody's guess.
                    • Mark A.
                      Max, Chuck s the other one who said this publicly. I m not their accountant, but it seems pretty clear that PB&F must be selling fewer of the stock plans,
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 29, 2003
                        Max,

                        Chuck's the other one who said this publicly.

                        I'm not their accountant, but it seems pretty clear that PB&F must be selling fewer of
                        the stock plans, even if that's what they want to do to have more time. Lots more people
                        will spend $35 - $50 for something just to dream on than will spend $200.

                        I won't ask you to violate any confidences but do wonder if you are also hearing this from Jim?

                        Mark

                        vexatious2001 wrote:
                        snipped
                        > I can see where down the road Jim's
                        > fame as a designer will grow and I anticipate that the
                        > price for his services will grow. As has been pointed
                        > out before, 20 years ago Bolger's plans for simple boats were
                        > farely cheap. They aint so cheap any more.
                        >
                        > That is why, for the past couple of years, I have written
                        > numerous checks to Jim to buy plans, many at "prototype"
                        > prices.
                        >
                        > And why I may go ahead and "commision" the Humungus project
                        > now rather than waiting.
                        >
                        > Someday they aint gonna be so cheap.
                      • vexatious2001
                        ... While you are out cruising, I am watching snow fly. I must be getting punished for something. ... I love old outboards, but there is no getting around that
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 29, 2003
                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Ashley" <ozboater@y...> wrote:
                          > Hi all,
                          > Just back from my maiden 5 day cruise in Dorado. Will be sending
                          > story and pics to Duckworks. (And pics in Michalak Photos Only)


                          While you are out cruising, I am watching snow fly.
                          I must be getting punished for something.

                          >

                          > Jim was sceptical when I told him of my initial figures, as they are
                          > way different from his antique outboards.



                          I love old outboards, but there is no getting around
                          that they suck the gasoline.

                          I was just reading today where a 1956 Johnson 30 hp
                          should burn about 2 U.S. gallons / hour


                          >
                          > The cabin is perfect camping on board for one. I found Dorado
                          > supremely comfortable for living onboard by myself. I won't bother
                          > trying to sleep 2 in it (though quite OK for afternoon snuggles -
                          but
                          > there is always room for those no matter the vessel :) AF4 has a
                          > bigger flat floor area (and a bit more headroom) so gives more
                          > versatility with the interior. Just have to take it a bit easier in
                          a
                          > chop.



                          I have yet to try any "snuggles" in the AF4.


                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > About a bigger boat -
                          >
                          > It would be very easy to lengthen a Dorado, as the back half of the
                          > boat has the same cross section from midships to stern. How it would
                          > affect performance/seaworthiness is anybody's guess.
                          >


                          I am looking at the May, 1971 issue of Popular Mechanics, at
                          an article intitled, "The Seaworthy Seamaster." The subject
                          of this article is a 22-foot-long fiberglass production
                          cruiser powered, in some of the photos, with a 45 hp chrysler
                          outboard, and in one photo, by an old Homelite 55 hp 4-cycle
                          outboard (there is a real neat website out there on these
                          old Homelites.)

                          Although the beam of this boat is not given, it looks to be
                          about 5 feet or so. There is a "trunk-style" cabin which
                          probably gives about 3 feet of headroom, and almost the
                          entire top of the cabin is a lift-off hatch.

                          In the article, (2) people cruised around Cape Cod in
                          this boat, spending nights ashore in a tent (there is one
                          photo of the tent set-up on a pier.)

                          I doubt many of these boats were ever built. If one could
                          be found, it might be a good camper/cruiser.

                          The point of all this is that a Dorado, stretched-out to
                          about 22 feet, would be very simiiliar to this "Seamaster."

                          As pointed out, the straight sections would make for a relativley
                          easy stretch, although there might be some structural
                          issues to attend to- the boat may need some additional
                          longitudinal framing.


                          Looking forward to photos!


                          Max
                        • vexatious2001
                          ... be selling fewer of ... time. Lots more people ... $200. ... also hearing this from Jim? ... I have dicussed plan pricing with Jim on several occasions,
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 29, 2003
                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A." <marka@h...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Max,
                            >
                            > Chuck's the other one who said this publicly.
                            >
                            > I'm not their accountant, but it seems pretty clear that PB&F must
                            be selling fewer of
                            > the stock plans, even if that's what they want to do to have more
                            time. Lots more people
                            > will spend $35 - $50 for something just to dream on than will spend
                            $200.
                            >
                            > I won't ask you to violate any confidences but do wonder if you are
                            also hearing this from Jim?
                            >
                            > Mark
                            >
                            >


                            I have dicussed plan pricing with Jim on several
                            occasions, and as far as I know, Jim has no plans
                            to make any dramatic changes in the way he prices
                            designs for the time being.

                            But as his reputation grows (I see that this group,
                            which did not exist 18 months ago, is up to over
                            400 members now), I know it will eventually happen.

                            Right now, to be entirely honest, Jim lives right
                            at the edge of poverty. He tows his AF4 and Birdwatcher
                            with a 1970 pickup truck without working headlights
                            and occasionaly without brakes.

                            He car-tops his Roar rowboat on a Ford Escort with
                            over 250,000 miles on it.

                            He has no health insurance.

                            His house, which he purchased back in his aeronautical
                            engineering days, is in need of repairs which he does
                            not have the money for.

                            At some point, the man is going to need to bring in
                            a bit more money for items that a lot of us take
                            for granted.

                            A new truck and car are probably high on the list.

                            It is apparently a long, arduous journey to establish
                            one's reputation as a boat designer. Jim has been
                            "paying his dues," designing cheap, simple craft and
                            selling the plans inexpensively for several years
                            now.

                            The day will come when it will be time to reap what
                            has been sown.

                            And the guy deserves it. He has sacrificed a lot to
                            travel down this road.

                            He is entitled to a little reward.


                            Max
                          • Ashley
                            ... wrote: Typically its just me or wife and kid, but we have a lake ... Hiya Paul, Hehe.. that s the beauty of small boats, you can accumulate them (like Max
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 30, 2003
                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "pwatsonascc" <pwatsonascc@y...>
                              wrote:
                              Typically its just me or wife and kid, but we have a lake
                              > house so we get the family brother and sisters over with kids.
                              > I really need a fleet one for each usage. I already have 4 now,
                              > Kayak, Canoe, home made sail boat, and 24' pontoon.
                              > Regards,
                              > Paul, Plano Texas

                              Hiya Paul,

                              Hehe.. that's the beauty of small boats, you can accumulate them
                              (like Max accumulates outbards :).

                              I'll fess up - I've got 10 at last count, but 2 are free wreckers for
                              fittings and the trailers they were on. At least I built 6 of them.

                              Coz boats are so much a comromise, with little boats, especially
                              homebuilts, if you've got the room you can have a few for the
                              different tasks. Our Piraguas are used a lot by visiting rellos
                              (Aussie for family) - just load 'em up and send 'em out, and it
                              doesn't matter how hard they are on them. They have a ball on the
                              water. And Annette can keep her Vireo pristine for her rowing.

                              This way, whatever you feel like doing on the water you can have a
                              boat for it.

                              I love boats that fit on trailers, too, coz you can keep them at
                              home, and they don't eat much. I have a brother with a new frozen
                              snot penthouse that costs him $1000 pm for the marina berth, and he
                              can spend $400 / weekend in fuel. Nice boat, but you can hire
                              something like that when you want it, and avoid all the continuous
                              costs of ownership of such a big vessel.

                              The beauty of JM's designs, is that you can put together a bunch of
                              small boats for sailing, rowing, canoeing, cruising, each one good at
                              its task. And you'd be hard pressed to find another designer's plans
                              that can be built so quickly, easily and cost effectively.

                              Have fun,
                              Ashley
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