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RE: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.

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  • daniel brown
    normsboat is like a big af3 if thats the style and construction (sharpie) preferred. NB has more interior room than electron. it weighs more than twice as much
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 18, 2013
      normsboat is like a big af3 if thats the style and construction (sharpie) preferred. NB has more interior room than electron. it weighs more than twice as much as af3 but its a lot lighter than most other trailer sailers its size.




      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      From: nelsarv@...
      Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:19:19 +0000
      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.





      AF2 was my first thought as well. Caroline would be my preference for
      small kids.

      Or Jewelbox for even more space inside as kids get bigger. Even though
      unballasted it should recover from a 90 degree knockdown without
      shipping water and closes up fully when on the trailer. Two features I
      really like.

      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm
      <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm>

      Jim warns that the unballasted AF2 may be difficult for one person to
      re-right if it goes over unlike the smaller AF3. So I would think once
      getting to a certain larger hull size having self-righting capability
      would be preferred which means adding ballast and the easiest ballast
      for towing is water. This would include Blobster and perhaps even
      Electron if water ballast takes the place of the batteries. (Sailing rig
      included in the plans.) If you want to go really big there is Jukebox3
      with water ballast and Picara with steel bars or even Caprice which is
      easy to tow as it is surprisingly light.

      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/electron/index.htm
      <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/electron/index.htm>

      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm
      <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm>

      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm
      <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm>

      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm
      <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm>

      Another thing to keep in mind is 2nd-hand boats. You can get some deals
      far better than you can build as they often come with a lot of extra
      equipment including often a trailer, motor, ground tackle, navigation
      equipment etc. This call add up to a lot of money.

      Nels

      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell" wrote:
      >
      > How about the Caroline?
      >
      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, James Dunn jimmyodunn@ wrote:
      > >
      > > I have an AF3 but it's a tad small for a family of 4. My kids are
      only 2 so the AF3 is good for now but, I foresee a need for an upgrade
      sooner than later. I am extremely happy with the AF3 but I long for the
      extra couple feet of the AF4. I am also partial to the Blobster which
      makes beaching and my wife's happiness a snap but I like to sail coastal
      water which the Blobster is a bit iffy when the weather picks up. Long
      story short, I want a larger AF3, anyone thought about this before?
      > >
      > > JD
      > >
      > > Sent from my iPad
      > >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • john colley
      As a comparison.My Hartley ts16 is (duh) 16 feet long,Cabin is 8 long.Ply on timber frames.Weighs 360Kg s (you do the conversion) Except for the Cherry
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 19, 2013
        As a comparison.My Hartley ts16 is (duh) 16 feet long,Cabin is 8' long.Ply on timber frames.Weighs 360Kg's (you do the conversion) Except for the Cherry 16(stitch and glue) it would have to be the lightest trailersailer around.


         
        "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
        -Sigurd Olson


        ________________________________
        From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
        To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <michalak@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 3:53 AM
        Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.


        normsboat is like a big af3 if thats the style and construction (sharpie) preferred. NB has more interior room than electron. it weighs more than twice as much as af3 but its a lot lighter than most other trailer sailers its size.




        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        From: nelsarv@...
        Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:19:19 +0000
        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.

         



        AF2 was my first thought as well. Caroline would be my preference for
        small kids.

        Or Jewelbox for even more space inside as kids get bigger. Even though
        unballasted it should recover from a 90 degree knockdown without
        shipping water and closes up fully when on the trailer. Two features I
        really like.

        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm
        <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm>

        Jim warns that the unballasted AF2 may be difficult for one person to
        re-right if it goes over unlike the smaller AF3. So I would think once
        getting to a certain larger hull size having self-righting capability
        would be preferred which means adding ballast and the easiest ballast
        for towing is water. This would include Blobster and perhaps even
        Electron if water ballast takes the place of the batteries. (Sailing rig
        included in the plans.) If you want to go really big there is Jukebox3
        with water ballast and Picara with steel bars or even Caprice which is
        easy to tow as it is surprisingly light.

        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/electron/index.htm
        <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/electron/index.htm>

        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm
        <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm>

        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm
        <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm>

        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm
        <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm>

        Another thing to keep in mind is 2nd-hand boats. You can get some deals
        far better than you can build as they often come with a lot of extra
        equipment including often a trailer, motor, ground tackle, navigation
        equipment etc. This call add up to a lot of money.

        Nels

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell" wrote:
        >
        > How about the Caroline?
        >
        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, James Dunn jimmyodunn@ wrote:
        > >
        > > I have an AF3 but it's a tad small for a family of 4. My kids are
        only 2 so the AF3 is good for now but, I foresee a need for an upgrade
        sooner than later. I am extremely happy with the AF3 but I long for the
        extra couple feet of the AF4. I am also partial to the Blobster which
        makes beaching and my wife's happiness a snap but I like to sail coastal
        water which the Blobster is a bit iffy when the weather picks up. Long
        story short, I want a larger AF3, anyone thought about this before?
        > >
        > > JD
        > >
        > > Sent from my iPad
        > >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                               

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • daniel brown
        good case in point, the 16 hartley weighs almost 200 lbs more than the 18 normsboat. i would bet the ts 16 is faster, it carries a lot of sail for a 16. To:
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 19, 2013
          good case in point, the 16' hartley weighs almost 200 lbs more than the 18' normsboat. i would bet the ts 16 is faster, it carries a lot of sail for a 16.




          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          From: Helliconia54@...
          Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 01:14:29 -0700
          Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.





          As a comparison.My Hartley ts16 is (duh) 16 feet long,Cabin is 8' long.Ply on timber frames.Weighs 360Kg's (you do the conversion) Except for the Cherry 16(stitch and glue) it would have to be the lightest trailersailer around.


          "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
          -Sigurd Olson

          ________________________________
          From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
          To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <michalak@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 3:53 AM
          Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.


          normsboat is like a big af3 if thats the style and construction (sharpie) preferred. NB has more interior room than electron. it weighs more than twice as much as af3 but its a lot lighter than most other trailer sailers its size.

          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          From: nelsarv@...
          Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:19:19 +0000
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.



          AF2 was my first thought as well. Caroline would be my preference for
          small kids.

          Or Jewelbox for even more space inside as kids get bigger. Even though
          unballasted it should recover from a 90 degree knockdown without
          shipping water and closes up fully when on the trailer. Two features I
          really like.

          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm
          <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm>

          Jim warns that the unballasted AF2 may be difficult for one person to
          re-right if it goes over unlike the smaller AF3. So I would think once
          getting to a certain larger hull size having self-righting capability
          would be preferred which means adding ballast and the easiest ballast
          for towing is water. This would include Blobster and perhaps even
          Electron if water ballast takes the place of the batteries. (Sailing rig
          included in the plans.) If you want to go really big there is Jukebox3
          with water ballast and Picara with steel bars or even Caprice which is
          easy to tow as it is surprisingly light.

          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/electron/index.htm
          <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/electron/index.htm>

          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm
          <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm>

          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm
          <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm>

          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm
          <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm>

          Another thing to keep in mind is 2nd-hand boats. You can get some deals
          far better than you can build as they often come with a lot of extra
          equipment including often a trailer, motor, ground tackle, navigation
          equipment etc. This call add up to a lot of money.

          Nels

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell" wrote:
          >
          > How about the Caroline?
          >
          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, James Dunn jimmyodunn@ wrote:
          > >
          > > I have an AF3 but it's a tad small for a family of 4. My kids are
          only 2 so the AF3 is good for now but, I foresee a need for an upgrade
          sooner than later. I am extremely happy with the AF3 but I long for the
          extra couple feet of the AF4. I am also partial to the Blobster which
          makes beaching and my wife's happiness a snap but I like to sail coastal
          water which the Blobster is a bit iffy when the weather picks up. Long
          story short, I want a larger AF3, anyone thought about this before?
          > >
          > > JD
          > >
          > > Sent from my iPad
          > >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Dunn
          All great ideas, thanks everyone. I like the style if my AF3 but I recognize the safety concern with the small ones, doubt I ll be coastal cruising anytime
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 20, 2013
            All great ideas, thanks everyone. I like the style if my AF3 but I recognize the safety concern with the small ones, doubt I'll be coastal cruising anytime soon. I like the simplicity of the AF2 build, would love a jewel box style boat but it's a tough sell on the wife not looking very traditional and all.

            Thanks again,
            JD

            Sent from my iPhone
          • prairiedog2332
            I agree with your wife. JB is pretty darn ugly:-) I disliked it for years and always planned to build a Bolger Birdwatcher instead. But I found it had some
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 20, 2013
              I agree with your wife. JB is pretty darn ugly:-) I disliked it for
              years and always planned to build a Bolger Birdwatcher instead. But I
              found it had some drawbacks. One being no place to install a motor and
              that centerboard really broke up the sleeping space inside on a hull of
              25'. And a really tall mast to deal with.

              http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_main.htm
              <http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_main.htm>

              Jim built the prototype Birdwatcher and was very pleased with it - yet
              experienced some of the same drawbacks so thought about how he could
              improve it. It came out as JB! Room for a family kept safely inside.
              Self-draining motor well. Shorter mast. Walk off the bow onto dry land.
              And 6 feet shorter.

              http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm
              <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm>

              I would now consider 2 more mods. Adding a mizzen at the stern and a Vee
              entry at the bow. And in my wildest imaginings a schooner rig. Scow
              schooners were extremely popular at one time and this rig would fit
              perfectly.

              http://www.instantboats.com/lschooner.htm
              <http://www.instantboats.com/lschooner.htm>

              Nels

              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, James Dunn wrote:
              >
              > All great ideas, thanks everyone. I like the style if my AF3 but I
              recognize the safety concern with the small ones, doubt I'll be coastal
              cruising anytime soon. I like the simplicity of the AF2 build, would
              love a jewel box style boat but it's a tough sell on the wife not
              looking very traditional and all.
              >
              > Thanks again,
              > JD
              >
              > Sent from my iPhone
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • joe_mapango
              Hello Nels. I like your progression and all your comments. I d like to post an alternative bow however. Making a V bow mod at first sounds like a great
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 20, 2013
                Hello Nels. I like your progression and all your comments. I'd like to post an alternative bow however. Making a V bow mod at first sounds like a great idea. For motoring it would improve action in a chop, and at anchor it would be a quieter bow. But from a sailing perspective it may not be so nice. Making the bow a V would greatly increase its tendency to pound on a reach or when sailing closer to the wind. I'm really starting to warm to the SA (Of Bolger and friends fame) cutwater. Its easy to build (can be made stich and glue), gives you a longer WL while motoring, limits pound AND you can keep your deep chines when sailing.

                What is your assessment of Bolger like cutwater(s). And, why don't we see them "out there"?

                Chris Curtis




                > years and always planned to build a Bolger Birdwatcher instead. But I
                > found it had some drawbacks. One being no place to install a motor and
                > that centerboard really broke up the sleeping space inside on a hull of
                > 25'. And a really tall mast to deal with.
                >
                > http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_main.htm
                > <http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_main.htm>
                >
                > Jim built the prototype Birdwatcher and was very pleased with it - yet
                > experienced some of the same drawbacks so thought about how he could
                > improve it. It came out as JB! Room for a family kept safely inside.
                > Self-draining motor well. Shorter mast. Walk off the bow onto dry land.
                > And 6 feet shorter.
                >
                > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm
                > <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm>
                >
                > I would now consider 2 more mods. Adding a mizzen at the stern and a Vee
                > entry at the bow. And in my wildest imaginings a schooner rig. Scow
                > schooners were extremely popular at one time and this rig would fit
                > perfectly.
                >
                > http://www.instantboats.com/lschooner.htm
                > <http://www.instantboats.com/lschooner.htm>
                >
                > Nels
                >
                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, James Dunn wrote:
                > >
                > > All great ideas, thanks everyone. I like the style if my AF3 but I
                > recognize the safety concern with the small ones, doubt I'll be coastal
                > cruising anytime soon. I like the simplicity of the AF2 build, would
                > love a jewel box style boat but it's a tough sell on the wife not
                > looking very traditional and all.
                > >
                > > Thanks again,
                > > JD
                > >
                > > Sent from my iPhone
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • prairiedog2332
                Sorry Chris, not sure which Bolger bow design you are referring to? There are several that I have seen. My thinking is based on what Jim has written about the
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 20, 2013
                  Sorry Chris, not sure which Bolger bow design you are referring to?
                  There are several that I have seen.

                  My thinking is based on what Jim has written about the Petesboat design
                  which has a warped V entry.

                  http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/petesboat/index.htm
                  <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/petesboat/index.htm>

                  "There was much discussion about whether the warped V entry was worth
                  the extra work. Converting to a simple flat bottom entry would be easy.
                  On Twixt I'm quite certain the V is worth the work and Ed Heins praised
                  the V entry on his Tween
                  <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/tween/index.htm> , but perhaps
                  not on these larger boats."

                  So JB is somewhere in between? My main reasoning is personal as where I
                  reside there are long periods where there is not much wind on our lakes
                  in the summer, plus living on a river, so may be worth the extra effort
                  when motoring a lot more often than others may have to.

                  The schooner rig may add some effectiveness when broad reaching in light
                  winds, despite a shorter waterline and offer the option of adding a
                  light poly tarp stay sail shown in the dotted lines here.

                  http://www.instantboats.com/images/lschoonerprof.gif
                  <http://www.instantboats.com/images/lschoonerprof.gif>

                  The Bolger Light Schooner is a great design. But I think the Michalak
                  version of JB would really make it more a family design with a lot of
                  fun options over the standard JB. Just my thinking though.

                  Nels


                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mapango" wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Nels. I like your progression and all your comments. I'd like
                  to post an alternative bow however. Making a V bow mod at first sounds
                  like a great idea. For motoring it would improve action in a chop, and
                  at anchor it would be a quieter bow. But from a sailing perspective it
                  may not be so nice. Making the bow a V would greatly increase its
                  tendency to pound on a reach or when sailing closer to the wind. I'm
                  really starting to warm to the SA (Of Bolger and friends fame) cutwater.
                  Its easy to build (can be made stich and glue), gives you a longer WL
                  while motoring, limits pound AND you can keep your deep chines when
                  sailing.
                  >
                  > What is your assessment of Bolger like cutwater(s). And, why don't we
                  see them "out there"?
                  >
                  > Chris Curtis




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • john colley
                  Ts16 carries 11.6m,sq main and a 5.2 m,sq jib on a 6.2m mast.I ve been on one in 25Knts wind doing 7Knts.They will plane if conditions are right.I d say that
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 20, 2013
                    Ts16 carries 11.6m,sq main and a 5.2 m,sq jib on a 6.2m mast.I've been on one in 25Knts wind doing 7Knts.They will plane if conditions are right.I'd say that 6Knts is a good average.Shes ^m length and 2.2m beam.Hope this helps to get some ideas of comparisson.



                     
                    "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
                    -Sigurd Olson


                    ________________________________
                    From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
                    To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 8:49 PM
                    Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.


                    good case in point, the 16' hartley weighs almost 200 lbs more than the 18' normsboat. i would bet the ts 16 is faster, it carries a lot of sail for a 16.




                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    From: Helliconia54@...
                    Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 01:14:29 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.

                     



                    As a comparison.My Hartley ts16 is (duh) 16 feet long,Cabin is 8' long.Ply on timber frames.Weighs 360Kg's (you do the conversion) Except for the Cherry 16(stitch and glue) it would have to be the lightest trailersailer around.


                    "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
                    -Sigurd Olson

                    ________________________________
                    From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
                    To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 3:53 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.


                    normsboat is like a big af3 if thats the style and construction (sharpie) preferred. NB has more interior room than electron. it weighs more than twice as much as af3 but its a lot lighter than most other trailer sailers its size.

                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    From: nelsarv@...
                    Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:19:19 +0000
                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: Larger AF3 or an AF4 mod for sail plan.

                     

                    AF2 was my first thought as well. Caroline would be my preference for
                    small kids.

                    Or Jewelbox for even more space inside as kids get bigger. Even though
                    unballasted it should recover from a 90 degree knockdown without
                    shipping water and closes up fully when on the trailer. Two features I
                    really like.

                    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm
                    <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/index.htm>

                    Jim warns that the unballasted AF2 may be difficult for one person to
                    re-right if it goes over unlike the smaller AF3. So I would think once
                    getting to a certain larger hull size having self-righting capability
                    would be preferred which means adding ballast and the easiest ballast
                    for towing is water. This would include Blobster and perhaps even
                    Electron if water ballast takes the place of the batteries. (Sailing rig
                    included in the plans.) If you want to go really big there is Jukebox3
                    with water ballast and Picara with steel bars or even Caprice which is
                    easy to tow as it is surprisingly light.

                    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/electron/index.htm
                    <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/electron/index.htm>

                    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm
                    <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm>

                    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm
                    <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm>

                    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm
                    <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm>

                    Another thing to keep in mind is 2nd-hand boats. You can get some deals
                    far better than you can build as they often come with a lot of extra
                    equipment including often a trailer, motor, ground tackle, navigation
                    equipment etc. This call add up to a lot of money.

                    Nels

                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell" wrote:
                    >
                    > How about the Caroline?
                    >
                    > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, James Dunn jimmyodunn@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I have an AF3 but it's a tad small for a family of 4. My kids are
                    only 2 so the AF3 is good for now but, I foresee a need for an upgrade
                    sooner than later. I am extremely happy with the AF3 but I long for the
                    extra couple feet of the AF4. I am also partial to the Blobster which
                    makes beaching and my wife's happiness a snap but I like to sail coastal
                    water which the Blobster is a bit iffy when the weather picks up. Long
                    story short, I want a larger AF3, anyone thought about this before?
                    > >
                    > > JD
                    > >
                    > > Sent from my iPad
                    > >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                           

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                           

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mark Albanese
                    I ought to pipe in about a different bow for a boat like my Jewelboxjr. Jim says that probably the smaller your flat bottomed boat, the more it can use the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 21, 2013
                      I ought to pipe in about a different bow for a boat like my Jewelboxjr. Jim
                      says that probably the smaller your flat bottomed boat, the more it can use
                      the twisted bow. Sage is definitely small enough, I think. If you like to
                      sail more or less upright, on her bottom as Phil Bolger and others say a
                      sharpie should, it can't hurt in any case.

                      I am the rankest sort of amateur of course, but it isn't any pounding that
                      is so bothersome; we do spend an inordinate amount of time caught in the
                      troughs. Have been there both under power and trying to effect a close
                      reach. Lacking a good deal of momentum, quite small trains of waves can
                      just slap her back.

                      The JBjr has the chine scant high enough to add a pretty good vee under the
                      bow, if that would help.

                      I've the plans and meranti for Tween as an experiment.
                      Mark


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John Kohnen
                      Bolger s sharpies, and the boats built to his sea of peas theory like Sage, sail best when heeled. Most flat-bottom boats sail best when heeled. Sage likes
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 22, 2013
                        Bolger's sharpies, and the boats built to his "sea of peas" theory like
                        Sage, sail best when heeled. Most flat-bottom boats sail best when heeled.
                        Sage likes to sail heeled; how do you keep her upright in anything but
                        light breezes? <g> Scows with wide ends, like Puddle Ducks and Gooses,
                        need to be sailed flat to keep the bow transom from rooting, and the stern
                        transom from dragging.

                        On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 02:44:39 -0700, Mark A wrote:

                        > I ought to pipe in about a different bow for a boat like my Jewelboxjr.
                        > Jim
                        > says that probably the smaller your flat bottomed boat, the more it can
                        > use
                        > the twisted bow. Sage is definitely small enough, I think. If you like to
                        > sail more or less upright, on her bottom as Phil Bolger and others say a
                        > sharpie should, it can't hurt in any case.
                        > ...

                        --
                        John (jkohnen@...)
                        It is requisite for the relaxation of the mind that we make use, from time
                        to time, of playful deeds and jokes. (St. Thomas Aquinas)
                      • Mark Albanese
                        Maybe that s my central mistake. (guffaw) However, the heavier the wind, the heavier the seas. Thanks, John. Mark ... [Non-text portions of this message have
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 22, 2013
                          Maybe that's my central mistake. (guffaw) However, the heavier the wind,
                          the heavier the seas. Thanks, John.
                          Mark
                          On Jul 22, 2013 5:25 PM, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:

                          > Bolger's sharpies, and the boats built to his "sea of peas" theory like
                          > Sage, sail best when heeled. Most flat-bottom boats sail best when heeled.
                          > Sage likes to sail heeled; how do you keep her upright in anything but
                          > light breezes? <g> Scows with wide ends, like Puddle Ducks and Gooses,
                          > need to be sailed flat to keep the bow transom from rooting, and the stern
                          > transom from dragging.
                          >
                          > On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 02:44:39 -0700, Mark A wrote:
                          >
                          > > I ought to pipe in about a different bow for a boat like my Jewelboxjr.
                          > > Jim
                          > > says that probably the smaller your flat bottomed boat, the more it can
                          > > use
                          > > the twisted bow. Sage is definitely small enough, I think. If you like to
                          > > sail more or less upright, on her bottom as Phil Bolger and others say a
                          > > sharpie should, it can't hurt in any case.
                          > > ...
                          >
                          > --
                          > John (jkohnen@...)
                          > It is requisite for the relaxation of the mind that we make use, from time
                          > to time, of playful deeds and jokes. (St. Thomas Aquinas)
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • prairiedog2332
                          I m thinking the warped V entry might help in the larger Jewelbox when motoring or motor-sailing in very light winds when there is some chop. Or maybe when at
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 23, 2013
                            I'm thinking the warped V entry might help in the larger Jewelbox when
                            motoring or motor-sailing in very light winds when there is some chop.
                            Or maybe when at anchor or when on the river. Or meeting larger
                            quartering waves as it would help to part them, sending the spray to the
                            sides rather than over the bow?

                            Twister has more or less proven it works well in a motor-sailor type
                            hull.


                            It is not a lot of extra work - but maybe it is - and not worth it!

                            Nels

                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" wrote:
                            >
                            > Bolger's sharpies, and the boats built to his "sea of peas" theory
                            like
                            > Sage, sail best when heeled. Most flat-bottom boats sail best when
                            heeled.
                            > Sage likes to sail heeled; how do you keep her upright in anything but
                            > light breezes? Scows with wide ends, like Puddle Ducks and Gooses,
                            > need to be sailed flat to keep the bow transom from rooting, and the
                            stern
                            > transom from dragging.
                            >




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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