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Re: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing

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  • Curran Bishop
    Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it s what I m working on... Thinking about an emergency power source, with the AF4 s high sides and open cockpit,
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 28 7:56 PM
      Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what I'm working on...

      Thinking about an emergency power source, with the AF4's high sides and
      open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up rowing? I'm not
      asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but "in a pinch, could
      you eventually get back where you started if the engine died?"


      On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in boating John! Useful for
      > us old guys to share that stuff.
      >
      > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet hull shape in my view with
      > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than stern and the widest beam
      > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the rower stands.
      > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe design. But quite a
      > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite mentioned he hoped to try
      > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he offers for a bit more
      > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the calm of morning and then
      > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit helping with of course
      > it's shorter sticks on board.
      >
      > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work with a Teal about as
      > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe enlarged a bit and center temp
      > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull form?
      >
      > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
      > <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>
      >
      > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the leverage when paddling
      > from the bottom hand position being lower on the shaft than the section
      > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when you push your upper hand
      > forward and pull the lower hand back. In stand-up paddling you lose
      > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is a lot longer, so a
      > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply a steering motion to the
      > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning away from the paddle.
      > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a mechanical advantage as the
      > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain directional control
      > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the other so no effort wasted
      > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have a hull you can sail
      > sitting down inside.
      >
      > I also think standing rowing may take some of the pressure off the lower
      > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs as shown in Dynamite's
      > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other and knees flexed a bit
      > when applying thrust. And of course you can take a break sitting and
      > rowing in that position using your bike mirror:-)
      >
      > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this really interesting to
      > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of caught my attention. And
      > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
      >
      > Nels
      >
      >
      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" wrote:
      > >
      > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a sprit rig. It required a
      > pretty
      > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly as a sit down row boat. It
      > is
      > > still around, and has held up pretty well, considering it was built 30
      > some
      > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood glue, and polyester resin.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently own a Beach Pea'
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze oar locks (which they like
      > a
      > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat cheaper and they are as good
      > as
      > > any I have found (I think they are worth the price).
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists mirror on my glasses to
      > check
      > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't perfect, but it keeps me from
      > running
      > > into anything big. Mostly.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > JohnT
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _____
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      Curran Bishop
      1005 W. Willow St.
      Carbondale, IL 62901
      phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
      http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com

      " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
      'er we try the depth of sea,
      egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
      unless Thou her helmsman be."
      -- Old Scottish Prayer


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • prairiedog2332
      My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row, especially if there is any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here. In a hull that size I would
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 29 4:33 PM
        My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row, especially if there is
        any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here.

        In a hull that size I would investigate either a sculling oar or yuloh.
        Similar to stand-up rowing in that you have your entire weight behind
        the stroke using legs for drive but you only have one long oar using
        both hands and is located off the stern quarter so one can control
        direction as well. The pitch of a yuloh is controlled by an attached
        line. rather than having to use your wrists.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk
        <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk>

        Nels
        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Curran Bishop wrote:
        >
        > Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what I'm working on...
        >
        > Thinking about an emergency power source, with the AF4's high sides
        and
        > open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up rowing? I'm not
        > asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but "in a pinch,
        could
        > you eventually get back where you started if the engine died?"
        >
        >
        > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332 nelsarv@... wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in boating John! Useful
        for
        > > us old guys to share that stuff.
        > >
        > > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet hull shape in my view
        with
        > > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than stern and the widest
        beam
        > > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the rower stands.
        > > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe design. But quite a
        > > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite mentioned he hoped to
        try
        > > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he offers for a bit more
        > > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the calm of morning and
        then
        > > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit helping with of
        course
        > > it's shorter sticks on board.
        > >
        > > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work with a Teal about as
        > > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe enlarged a bit and center
        temp
        > > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull form?
        > >
        > > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
        > >
        > >
        > > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the leverage when
        paddling
        > > from the bottom hand position being lower on the shaft than the
        section
        > > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when you push your upper
        hand
        > > forward and pull the lower hand back. In stand-up paddling you lose
        > > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is a lot longer, so a
        > > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply a steering motion to
        the
        > > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning away from the
        paddle.
        > > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a mechanical advantage as the
        > > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain directional control
        > > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the other so no effort
        wasted
        > > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have a hull you can sail
        > > sitting down inside.
        > >
        > > I also think standing rowing may take some of the pressure off the
        lower
        > > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs as shown in
        Dynamite's
        > > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other and knees flexed a bit
        > > when applying thrust. And of course you can take a break sitting and
        > > rowing in that position using your bike mirror:-)
        > >
        > > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this really interesting to
        > > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of caught my attention.
        And
        > > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
        > >
        > > Nels
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a sprit rig. It required
        a
        > > pretty
        > > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly as a sit down row boat.
        It
        > > is
        > > > still around, and has held up pretty well, considering it was
        built 30
        > > some
        > > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood glue, and polyester resin.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently own a Beach Pea'
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze oar locks (which they
        like
        > > a
        > > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat cheaper and they are as
        good
        > > as
        > > > any I have found (I think they are worth the price).
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists mirror on my glasses
        to
        > > check
        > > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't perfect, but it keeps me from
        > > running
        > > > into anything big. Mostly.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > JohnT
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > _____
        > > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Curran Bishop
        > 1005 W. Willow St.
        > Carbondale, IL 62901
        > phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
        > http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
        >
        > " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
        > 'er we try the depth of sea,
        > egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
        > unless Thou her helmsman be."
        > -- Old Scottish Prayer
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Joseph Stromski
        Unless you make the oarports that are on the plan (I didn t), rowing will be a stand up proposition. I ve tried it out, and its definitely a last ditch means
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 29 5:37 PM
          Unless you make the oarports that are on the plan (I didn't), rowing will be a stand up proposition.
          I've tried it out, and its definitely a "last ditch" means of propulsion. My back up is a deep cycle battery and a 45# Minn Kota
          The oars are still handy to have aboard, they make good paddles/poles for dockside maneuvering.
          I made the oars to Jim's plans, they stow with some nylon strap around the blade and a Mini Quick Fist clamp on the handle. They're the same length as, and stow on, the cabin roof.
          The oarlock is a chunk of white oak with a bronze bushing epoxied into it, and then glued/screwed to the interior side. If I were to do it over again, I'd use a Scotty rod holder base with the #103 oarlock adapter. That way it could also be used for a fishing rod holder, or a beverage holder, or anything else that's compatible with that mount. I'm sure that setup would be plenty strong, and since the oarlocks are rarely, if ever used, they'd be much more useful than the oarlocks I made.
          I'll try to take some photos of the whole setup and put them in the "joe's AF4" folder when I get a few minutes. 
          http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html

          http://www.scotty.com/boating-supplies-equipment/oar-locks.htm


          Best, Joe



          ________________________________
          From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 6:33 PM
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing



           
          My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row, especially if there is
          any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here.

          In a hull that size I would investigate either a sculling oar or yuloh.
          Similar to stand-up rowing in that you have your entire weight behind
          the stroke using legs for drive but you only have one long oar using
          both hands and is located off the stern quarter so one can control
          direction as well. The pitch of a yuloh is controlled by an attached
          line. rather than having to use your wrists.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk
          <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk>

          Nels
          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Curran Bishop wrote:
          >
          > Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what I'm working on...
          >
          > Thinking about an emergency power source, with the AF4's high sides
          and
          > open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up rowing? I'm not
          > asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but "in a pinch,
          could
          > you eventually get back where you started if the engine died?"
          >
          >
          > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332 nelsarv@... wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in boating John! Useful
          for
          > > us old guys to share that stuff.
          > >
          > > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet hull shape in my view
          with
          > > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than stern and the widest
          beam
          > > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the rower stands.
          > > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe design. But quite a
          > > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite mentioned he hoped to
          try
          > > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he offers for a bit more
          > > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the calm of morning and
          then
          > > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit helping with of
          course
          > > it's shorter sticks on board.
          > >
          > > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work with a Teal about as
          > > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe enlarged a bit and center
          temp
          > > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull form?
          > >
          > > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
          > >
          > >
          > > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the leverage when
          paddling
          > > from the bottom hand position being lower on the shaft than the
          section
          > > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when you push your upper
          hand
          > > forward and pull the lower hand back. In stand-up paddling you lose
          > > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is a lot longer, so a
          > > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply a steering motion to
          the
          > > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning away from the
          paddle.
          > > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a mechanical advantage as the
          > > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain directional control
          > > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the other so no effort
          wasted
          > > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have a hull you can sail
          > > sitting down inside.
          > >
          > > I also think standing rowing may take some of the pressure off the
          lower
          > > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs as shown in
          Dynamite's
          > > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other and knees flexed a bit
          > > when applying thrust. And of course you can take a break sitting and
          > > rowing in that position using your bike mirror:-)
          > >
          > > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this really interesting to
          > > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of caught my attention.
          And
          > > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
          > >
          > > Nels
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a sprit rig. It required
          a
          > > pretty
          > > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly as a sit down row boat.
          It
          > > is
          > > > still around, and has held up pretty well, considering it was
          built 30
          > > some
          > > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood glue, and polyester resin.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently own a Beach Pea'
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze oar locks (which they
          like
          > > a
          > > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat cheaper and they are as
          good
          > > as
          > > > any I have found (I think they are worth the price).
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists mirror on my glasses
          to
          > > check
          > > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't perfect, but it keeps me from
          > > running
          > > > into anything big. Mostly.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > JohnT
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > _____
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Curran Bishop
          > 1005 W. Willow St.
          > Carbondale, IL 62901
          > phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
          > http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
          >
          > " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
          > 'er we try the depth of sea,
          > egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
          > unless Thou her helmsman be."
          > -- Old Scottish Prayer
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • jhargrovewright2@juno.com
          The first question I would ask someone if they told me to recommend a row boat would be Where and Why and How would you get it to the water. No matter what
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 29 5:44 PM
            The first question I would ask someone if they told me to recommend a row boat would be Where and Why and How would you get it to the water. No matter what the answer to those questions would be, the answer will vary little. LIght, and fast and a little larger if it is used in big water. Windage is very important and the only reason to have more than the minimum would be big rough water. If the only reason is exercise, get a machine. If it must be a boat then it must be as much fun as possible and that means a quick easily propelled boat....is always a lot more fun and therefore you will use it more. I love all Michalak boats but the AF4 ain't it. JIB

            ---------- Original Message ----------
            From: "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...>
            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
            Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 23:33:12 -0000



            My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row, especially if there is
            any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here.

            In a hull that size I would investigate either a sculling oar or yuloh.
            Similar to stand-up rowing in that you have your entire weight behind
            the stroke using legs for drive but you only have one long oar using
            both hands and is located off the stern quarter so one can control
            direction as well. The pitch of a yuloh is controlled by an attached
            line. rather than having to use your wrists.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk
            <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk>

            Nels
            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Curran Bishop wrote:
            >
            > Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what I'm working on...
            >
            > Thinking about an emergency power source, with the AF4's high sides
            and
            > open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up rowing? I'm not
            > asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but "in a pinch,
            could
            > you eventually get back where you started if the engine died?"
            >
            >
            > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332 nelsarv@... wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in boating John! Useful
            for
            > > us old guys to share that stuff.
            > >
            > > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet hull shape in my view
            with
            > > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than stern and the widest
            beam
            > > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the rower stands.
            > > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe design. But quite a
            > > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite mentioned he hoped to
            try
            > > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he offers for a bit more
            > > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the calm of morning and
            then
            > > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit helping with of
            course
            > > it's shorter sticks on board.
            > >
            > > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work with a Teal about as
            > > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe enlarged a bit and center
            temp
            > > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull form?
            > >
            > > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
            > >
            > >
            > > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the leverage when
            paddling
            > > from the bottom hand position being lower on the shaft than the
            section
            > > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when you push your upper
            hand
            > > forward and pull the lower hand back. In stand-up paddling you lose
            > > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is a lot longer, so a
            > > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply a steering motion to
            the
            > > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning away from the
            paddle.
            > > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a mechanical advantage as the
            > > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain directional control
            > > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the other so no effort
            wasted
            > > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have a hull you can sail
            > > sitting down inside.
            > >
            > > I also think standing rowing may take some of the pressure off the
            lower
            > > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs as shown in
            Dynamite's
            > > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other and knees flexed a bit
            > > when applying thrust. And of course you can take a break sitting and
            > > rowing in that position using your bike mirror:-)
            > >
            > > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this really interesting to
            > > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of caught my attention.
            And
            > > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
            > >
            > > Nels
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a sprit rig. It required
            a
            > > pretty
            > > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly as a sit down row boat.
            It
            > > is
            > > > still around, and has held up pretty well, considering it was
            built 30
            > > some
            > > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood glue, and polyester resin.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently own a Beach Pea'
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze oar locks (which they
            like
            > > a
            > > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat cheaper and they are as
            good
            > > as
            > > > any I have found (I think they are worth the price).
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists mirror on my glasses
            to
            > > check
            > > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't perfect, but it keeps me from
            > > running
            > > > into anything big. Mostly.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > JohnT
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > _____
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Curran Bishop
            > 1005 W. Willow St.
            > Carbondale, IL 62901
            > phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
            > http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
            >
            > " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
            > 'er we try the depth of sea,
            > egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
            > unless Thou her helmsman be."
            > -- Old Scottish Prayer
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • prairiedog2332
            JIB, I agree with everything you say except the part about if the only reason is exercise get a machine. I have a stationary bike and a cross-country ski
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 29 6:24 PM
              JIB,

              I agree with everything you say except the part about if the only reason
              is exercise get a machine. I have a stationary bike and a cross-country
              ski machine, and running stuff and I find that extremely boring. But I
              can go paddling for hours and come back feeling I have been on a high.
              The water,the sky, the scenery, the birds, and yes even the challenges
              of wind and waves, and rain and snow - the joy of being with friends who
              enjoy the same experiences. And of course sailing and even motoring can
              be challenging physically, depending on circumstances. Our bodies were
              meant to be used in activities we enjoy not just sitting on a machine.

              Let's share a moment of silence for those stuck in traffic, on their way
              to the gym to ride a stationary bike!

              Nels



              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@..." wrote:
              >
              > The first question I would ask someone if they told me to recommend a
              row boat would be Where and Why and How would you get it to the water.
              No matter what the answer to those questions would be, the answer will
              vary little. LIght, and fast and a little larger if it is used in big
              water. Windage is very important and the only reason to have more than
              the minimum would be big rough water. If the only reason is exercise,
              get a machine. If it must be a boat then it must be as much fun as
              possible and that means a quick easily propelled boat....is always a lot
              more fun and therefore you will use it more. I love all Michalak boats
              but the AF4 ain't it. JIB
              >







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jhargrovewright2@juno.com
              Nels, I agree with you. I do not like rowing after about 15 minutes, max. On a machine...two minutes. Gary Blankenship likes to row and does it on a machine
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 29 6:57 PM
                Nels, I agree with you. I do not like rowing after about 15 minutes, max. On a machine...two minutes. Gary Blankenship likes to row and does it on a machine just for exercise and conditioning for when he needs to row his Frolic 2. I went with him on the EC last year and we had several "opportunities" to row. One was to get under bridges against the wind. The columns were too close together to sail through...directly against a significant wind and current. And he rowed us much of the way up the Indian Key Channel....as the current / tide turned against us. He is quite good and the Oardels he created and the portholes for the oars is ingenious. In that event the wind and the current was against us down the West Coast of Florida....until the 40+ mph cold front arrived. The Frolic 2 is quite a boat with a spacious cabin and relatively light for such a boat. The reason we succeeded was his knowledge of the capabilities of the boat and his knowledge of the course and the ability to row the rather large boat... JIB


                ---------- Original Message ----------
                From: "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...>
                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 01:24:58 -0000



                JIB,

                I agree with everything you say except the part about if the only reason
                is exercise get a machine. I have a stationary bike and a cross-country
                ski machine, and running stuff and I find that extremely boring. But I
                can go paddling for hours and come back feeling I have been on a high.
                The water,the sky, the scenery, the birds, and yes even the challenges
                of wind and waves, and rain and snow - the joy of being with friends who
                enjoy the same experiences. And of course sailing and even motoring can
                be challenging physically, depending on circumstances. Our bodies were
                meant to be used in activities we enjoy not just sitting on a machine.

                Let's share a moment of silence for those stuck in traffic, on their way
                to the gym to ride a stationary bike!

                Nels

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@..." wrote:
                >
                > The first question I would ask someone if they told me to recommend a
                row boat would be Where and Why and How would you get it to the water.
                No matter what the answer to those questions would be, the answer will
                vary little. LIght, and fast and a little larger if it is used in big
                water. Windage is very important and the only reason to have more than
                the minimum would be big rough water. If the only reason is exercise,
                get a machine. If it must be a boat then it must be as much fun as
                possible and that means a quick easily propelled boat....is always a lot
                more fun and therefore you will use it more. I love all Michalak boats
                but the AF4 ain't it. JIB
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Martin Houston
                My                         My AF3 is not an easy boat to row but several time in the Texas 200 it saved me & the boat. Shure helps when there is
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 30 7:03 AM
                  My
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  My AF3 is not an easy boat to row but several time in the Texas 200 it saved me & the boat. Shure helps when there is light or no wind. Can't stand up due to the ports but I can face either way so I can see what I'm running into.
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   

                  From: "jhargrovewright2@..." <jhargrovewright2@...>
                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 7:57 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing

                   
                  Nels, I agree with you. I do not like rowing after about 15 minutes, max. On a machine...two minutes. Gary Blankenship likes to row and does it on a machine just for exercise and conditioning for when he needs to row his Frolic 2. I went with him on the EC last year and we had several "opportunities" to row. One was to get under bridges against the wind. The columns were too close together to sail through...directly against a significant wind and current. And he rowed us much of the way up the Indian Key Channel....as the current / tide turned against us. He is quite good and the Oardels he created and the portholes for the oars is ingenious. In that event the wind and the current was against us down the West Coast of Florida....until the 40+ mph cold front arrived. The Frolic 2 is quite a boat with a spacious cabin and relatively light for such a boat. The reason we succeeded was his knowledge of the capabilities of the boat and his knowledge of the
                  course and the ability to row the rather large boat... JIB


                  ---------- Original Message ----------
                  From: "prairiedog2332" <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com>
                  To: mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                  Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 01:24:58 -0000

                  JIB,

                  I agree with everything you say except the part about if the only reason
                  is exercise get a machine. I have a stationary bike and a cross-country
                  ski machine, and running stuff and I find that extremely boring. But I
                  can go paddling for hours and come back feeling I have been on a high.
                  The water,the sky, the scenery, the birds, and yes even the challenges
                  of wind and waves, and rain and snow - the joy of being with friends who
                  enjoy the same experiences. And of course sailing and even motoring can
                  be challenging physically, depending on circumstances. Our bodies were
                  meant to be used in activities we enjoy not just sitting on a machine.

                  Let's share a moment of silence for those stuck in traffic, on their way
                  to the gym to ride a stationary bike!

                  Nels

                  --- In mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@..." wrote:
                  >
                  > The first question I would ask someone if they told me to recommend a
                  row boat would be Where and Why and How would you get it to the water.
                  No matter what the answer to those questions would be, the answer will
                  vary little. LIght, and fast and a little larger if it is used in big
                  water. Windage is very important and the only reason to have more than
                  the minimum would be big rough water. If the only reason is exercise,
                  get a machine. If it must be a boat then it must be as much fun as
                  possible and that means a quick easily propelled boat....is always a lot
                  more fun and therefore you will use it more. I love all Michalak boats
                  but the AF4 ain't it. JIB
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • prairiedog2332
                  Some really interesting stuff in the Scotty catalogue. Especially now the fisher people are getting into kayaking! Nels ... will be a stand up proposition.
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 30 8:22 AM
                    Some really interesting stuff in the Scotty catalogue. Especially now
                    the fisher people are getting into kayaking!

                    Nels
                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Stromski wrote:
                    >
                    > Unless you make the oarports that are on the plan (I didn't), rowing
                    will be a stand up proposition.
                    > I've tried it out, and its definitely a "last ditch" means of
                    propulsion. My back up is a deep cycle battery and a 45# Minn Kota
                    > The oars are still handy to have aboard, they make good paddles/poles
                    for dockside maneuvering.
                    > I made the oars to Jim's plans, they stow with some nylon strap around
                    the blade and a Mini Quick Fist clamp on the handle. They're the same
                    length as, and stow on, the cabin roof.
                    > The oarlock is a chunk of white oak with a bronze bushing epoxied into
                    it, and then glued/screwed to the interior side. If I were to do it
                    over again, I'd use a Scotty rod holder base with the #103Â oarlock
                    adapter. That way it could also be used for a fishing rod holder, or a
                    beverage holder, or anything else that's compatible with that mount. I'm
                    sure that setup would be plenty strong, and since the oarlocks are
                    rarely, if ever used, they'd be much more useful than the oarlocks I
                    made.
                    > I'll try to take some photos of the whole setup and put them in the
                    "joe's AF4" folder when I get a few minutes.Â
                    >
                    http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-t\
                    o-1-3-8.html
                    >
                    > http://www.scotty.com/boating-supplies-equipment/oar-locks.htm
                    >
                    >
                    > Best, Joe
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joe Stromski
                    I ve added photos of my rowing setup in the Joe s AF4 folder in the photos section. The setup works well for me, except the caveat of doing away with the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 4, 2013
                      I've added photos of my rowing setup in the "Joe's AF4" folder in the
                      photos section. The setup works well for me, except the caveat of doing
                      away with the oarlocks in favor of a Scotty-type base.
                      Happy Independence Day!
                      Joe
                      On 6/29/2013 7:37 PM, Joseph Stromski wrote:
                      >
                      > Unless you make the oarports that are on the plan (I didn't), rowing
                      > will be a stand up proposition.
                      > I've tried it out, and its definitely a "last ditch" means of
                      > propulsion. My back up is a deep cycle battery and a 45# Minn Kota
                      > The oars are still handy to have aboard, they make good paddles/poles
                      > for dockside maneuvering.
                      > I made the oars to Jim's plans, they stow with some nylon strap around
                      > the blade and a Mini Quick Fist clamp on the handle. They're the same
                      > length as, and stow on, the cabin roof.
                      > The oarlock is a chunk of white oak with a bronze bushing epoxied into
                      > it, and then glued/screwed to the interior side. If I were to do it
                      > over again, I'd use a Scotty rod holder base with the #103 oarlock
                      > adapter. That way it could also be used for a fishing rod holder, or a
                      > beverage holder, or anything else that's compatible with that mount.
                      > I'm sure that setup would be plenty strong, and since the oarlocks are
                      > rarely, if ever used, they'd be much more useful than the oarlocks I made.
                      > I'll try to take some photos of the whole setup and put them in the
                      > "joe's AF4" folder when I get a few minutes.
                      > http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html
                      >
                      > http://www.scotty.com/boating-supplies-equipment/oar-locks.htm
                      >
                      > Best, Joe
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com>>
                      > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 6:33 PM
                      > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row, especially if there is
                      > any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here.
                      >
                      > In a hull that size I would investigate either a sculling oar or yuloh.
                      > Similar to stand-up rowing in that you have your entire weight behind
                      > the stroke using legs for drive but you only have one long oar using
                      > both hands and is located off the stern quarter so one can control
                      > direction as well. The pitch of a yuloh is controlled by an attached
                      > line. rather than having to use your wrists.
                      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk
                      > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk>
                      >
                      > Nels
                      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      > Curran Bishop wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what I'm working on...
                      > >
                      > > Thinking about an emergency power source, with the AF4's high sides
                      > and
                      > > open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up rowing? I'm not
                      > > asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but "in a pinch,
                      > could
                      > > you eventually get back where you started if the engine died?"
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332 nelsarv@... wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > **
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in boating John! Useful
                      > for
                      > > > us old guys to share that stuff.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet hull shape in my view
                      > with
                      > > > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than stern and the widest
                      > beam
                      > > > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the rower stands.
                      > > > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe design. But quite a
                      > > > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite mentioned he hoped to
                      > try
                      > > > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he offers for a bit more
                      > > > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the calm of morning and
                      > then
                      > > > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit helping with of
                      > course
                      > > > it's shorter sticks on board.
                      > > >
                      > > > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work with a Teal about as
                      > > > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe enlarged a bit and center
                      > temp
                      > > > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull form?
                      > > >
                      > > > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the leverage when
                      > paddling
                      > > > from the bottom hand position being lower on the shaft than the
                      > section
                      > > > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when you push your upper
                      > hand
                      > > > forward and pull the lower hand back. In stand-up paddling you lose
                      > > > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is a lot longer, so a
                      > > > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply a steering motion to
                      > the
                      > > > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning away from the
                      > paddle.
                      > > > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a mechanical advantage as the
                      > > > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain directional control
                      > > > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the other so no effort
                      > wasted
                      > > > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have a hull you can sail
                      > > > sitting down inside.
                      > > >
                      > > > I also think standing rowing may take some of the pressure off the
                      > lower
                      > > > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs as shown in
                      > Dynamite's
                      > > > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other and knees flexed a bit
                      > > > when applying thrust. And of course you can take a break sitting and
                      > > > rowing in that position using your bike mirror:-)
                      > > >
                      > > > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this really interesting to
                      > > > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of caught my attention.
                      > And
                      > > > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
                      > > >
                      > > > Nels
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>, "John Trussell" wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a sprit rig. It required
                      > a
                      > > > pretty
                      > > > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly as a sit down row boat.
                      > It
                      > > > is
                      > > > > still around, and has held up pretty well, considering it was
                      > built 30
                      > > > some
                      > > > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood glue, and polyester resin.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently own a Beach Pea'
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze oar locks (which they
                      > like
                      > > > a
                      > > > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat cheaper and they are as
                      > good
                      > > > as
                      > > > > any I have found (I think they are worth the price).
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists mirror on my glasses
                      > to
                      > > > check
                      > > > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't perfect, but it keeps me from
                      > > > running
                      > > > > into anything big. Mostly.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > JohnT
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > _____
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Curran Bishop
                      > > 1005 W. Willow St.
                      > > Carbondale, IL 62901
                      > > phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                      > > http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
                      > >
                      > > " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                      > > 'er we try the depth of sea,
                      > > egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                      > > unless Thou her helmsman be."
                      > > -- Old Scottish Prayer
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • prairiedog2332
                      Great looking set-up with the oar storage clamps and straps and really nice looking set of oars. I can see where the Scotty additions would blend right in.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 4, 2013
                        Great looking set-up with the oar storage clamps and straps and really
                        nice looking set of oars. I can see where the Scotty additions would
                        blend right in. Wishing you all a great Independence Day and safe
                        celebration.

                        Nels
                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Joe Stromski wrote:
                        >
                        > I've added photos of my rowing setup in the "Joe's AF4" folder in the
                        > photos section. The setup works well for me, except the caveat of
                        doing
                        > away with the oarlocks in favor of a Scotty-type base.
                        > Happy Independence Day!
                        > Joe
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Curran Bishop
                        Looks great Joe - couple questions: what s a Scott-type base, what are the clips holding the oar handles, and do you row standing? ... -- Curran Bishop 1005 W.
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 4, 2013
                          Looks great Joe - couple questions: what's a Scott-type base, what are the
                          clips holding the oar handles, and do you row standing?


                          On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Joe Stromski <j.stromski@...>wrote:

                          > I've added photos of my rowing setup in the "Joe's AF4" folder in the
                          > photos section. The setup works well for me, except the caveat of doing
                          > away with the oarlocks in favor of a Scotty-type base.
                          > Happy Independence Day!
                          > Joe
                          >
                          > On 6/29/2013 7:37 PM, Joseph Stromski wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Unless you make the oarports that are on the plan (I didn't), rowing will
                          > be a stand up proposition.
                          > I've tried it out, and its definitely a "last ditch" means of propulsion.
                          > My back up is a deep cycle battery and a 45# Minn Kota
                          > The oars are still handy to have aboard, they make good paddles/poles for
                          > dockside maneuvering.
                          > I made the oars to Jim's plans, they stow with some nylon strap around the
                          > blade and a Mini Quick Fist clamp on the handle. They're the same length
                          > as, and stow on, the cabin roof.
                          > The oarlock is a chunk of white oak with a bronze bushing epoxied into it,
                          > and then glued/screwed to the interior side. If I were to do it over again,
                          > I'd use a Scotty rod holder base with the #103 oarlock adapter. That way it
                          > could also be used for a fishing rod holder, or a beverage holder, or
                          > anything else that's compatible with that mount. I'm sure that setup would
                          > be plenty strong, and since the oarlocks are rarely, if ever used, they'd
                          > be much more useful than the oarlocks I made.
                          > I'll try to take some photos of the whole setup and put them in the "joe's
                          > AF4" folder when I get a few minutes.
                          >
                          > http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html
                          >
                          > http://www.scotty.com/boating-supplies-equipment/oar-locks.htm
                          >
                          > Best, Joe
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
                          > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 6:33 PM
                          > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row, especially if there is
                          > any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here.
                          >
                          > In a hull that size I would investigate either a sculling oar or yuloh.
                          > Similar to stand-up rowing in that you have your entire weight behind
                          > the stroke using legs for drive but you only have one long oar using
                          > both hands and is located off the stern quarter so one can control
                          > direction as well. The pitch of a yuloh is controlled by an attached
                          > line. rather than having to use your wrists.
                          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk
                          > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk>
                          >
                          > Nels
                          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Curran Bishop wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what I'm working on...
                          > >
                          > > Thinking about an emergency power source, with the AF4's high sides
                          > and
                          > > open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up rowing? I'm not
                          > > asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but "in a pinch,
                          > could
                          > > you eventually get back where you started if the engine died?"
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332 nelsarv@... wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > **
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in boating John! Useful
                          > for
                          > > > us old guys to share that stuff.
                          > > >
                          > > > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet hull shape in my view
                          > with
                          > > > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than stern and the widest
                          > beam
                          > > > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the rower stands.
                          > > > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe design. But quite a
                          > > > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite mentioned he hoped to
                          > try
                          > > > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he offers for a bit more
                          > > > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the calm of morning and
                          > then
                          > > > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit helping with of
                          > course
                          > > > it's shorter sticks on board.
                          > > >
                          > > > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work with a Teal about as
                          > > > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe enlarged a bit and center
                          > temp
                          > > > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull form?
                          > > >
                          > > > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the leverage when
                          > paddling
                          > > > from the bottom hand position being lower on the shaft than the
                          > section
                          > > > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when you push your upper
                          > hand
                          > > > forward and pull the lower hand back. In stand-up paddling you lose
                          > > > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is a lot longer, so a
                          > > > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply a steering motion to
                          > the
                          > > > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning away from the
                          > paddle.
                          > > > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a mechanical advantage as the
                          > > > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain directional control
                          > > > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the other so no effort
                          > wasted
                          > > > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have a hull you can sail
                          > > > sitting down inside.
                          > > >
                          > > > I also think standing rowing may take some of the pressure off the
                          > lower
                          > > > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs as shown in
                          > Dynamite's
                          > > > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other and knees flexed a bit
                          > > > when applying thrust. And of course you can take a break sitting and
                          > > > rowing in that position using your bike mirror:-)
                          > > >
                          > > > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this really interesting to
                          > > > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of caught my attention.
                          > And
                          > > > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
                          > > >
                          > > > Nels
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a sprit rig. It required
                          > a
                          > > > pretty
                          > > > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly as a sit down row boat.
                          > It
                          > > > is
                          > > > > still around, and has held up pretty well, considering it was
                          > built 30
                          > > > some
                          > > > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood glue, and polyester resin.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently own a Beach Pea'
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze oar locks (which they
                          > like
                          > > > a
                          > > > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat cheaper and they are as
                          > good
                          > > > as
                          > > > > any I have found (I think they are worth the price).
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists mirror on my glasses
                          > to
                          > > > check
                          > > > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't perfect, but it keeps me from
                          > > > running
                          > > > > into anything big. Mostly.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > JohnT
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > _____
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > > Curran Bishop
                          > > 1005 W. Willow St.
                          > > Carbondale, IL 62901
                          > > phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                          > > http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
                          > >
                          > > " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                          > > 'er we try the depth of sea,
                          > > egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                          > > unless Thou her helmsman be."
                          > > -- Old Scottish Prayer
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          --
                          Curran Bishop
                          1005 W. Willow St.
                          Carbondale, IL 62901
                          phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                          http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com

                          " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                          'er we try the depth of sea,
                          egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                          unless Thou her helmsman be."
                          -- Old Scottish Prayer


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Joseph Stromski
                          A Scotty base is a semi-universal fishing rod holder base, I shouldve used that instead of the oak oarlock. Scotty is one brand, there s  few other that use
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 5, 2013
                            A Scotty base is a semi-universal fishing rod holder base, I shouldve used that instead of the oak oarlock. Scotty is one brand, there's  few other that use the same pettern.
                            http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fishing/Fishing-Tools/Fishing-Rod-Holders%7C/pc/104793480/c/104720580/sc/104538780/Cabelas-SideDeck-Mount-Base-for-QuickDraw-and-360HT-Rod-Holders/1586565.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ffishing-rod-holders%2F_%2FN-1100400%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104538780%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104793480%253Bcat104720580&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104793480%3Bcat104720580%3Bcat104538780

                            The clips are Mini Quick Fists
                            http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html

                            Standing up is your only option unless you cut in the oarports. The gunwales are too high to do anything sitting.




                            >
                            >
                            >


                            ________________________________
                            From: Curran Bishop <curranb79@...>
                            To: Joe Stromski <j.stromski@...>
                            Cc: Michalak <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 11:34 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing



                            Looks great Joe - couple questions: what's a Scott-type base, what are the clips holding the oar handles, and do you row standing?



                            On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Joe Stromski <j.stromski@...> wrote:

                            I've added photos of my rowing setup in the "Joe's AF4" folder in the photos section. The setup works well for me, except the caveat of doing away with the oarlocks in favor of a Scotty-type base.
                            >Happy Independence Day!
                            >Joe
                            >
                            >
                            >On 6/29/2013 7:37 PM, Joseph Stromski wrote:
                            >

                            >>Unless you make the oarports that are on the plan (I didn't), rowing will be a stand up proposition.
                            >>I've tried it out, and its definitely a "last ditch" means
                            of propulsion. My back up is a deep cycle battery and a
                            45# Minn Kota
                            >>The oars are still handy to have aboard, they make good
                            paddles/poles for dockside maneuvering.
                            >>I made the oars to Jim's plans, they stow with some nylon
                            strap around the blade and a Mini Quick Fist clamp on the
                            handle. They're the same length as, and stow on, the cabin
                            roof.
                            >>The oarlock is a chunk of white oak with a bronze bushing
                            epoxied into it, and then glued/screwed to the interior
                            side. If I were to do it over again, I'd use a Scotty rod
                            holder base with the #103 oarlock adapter. That way it
                            could also be used for a fishing rod holder, or a beverage
                            holder, or anything else that's compatible with that
                            mount. I'm sure that setup would be plenty strong, and
                            since the oarlocks are rarely, if ever used, they'd be
                            much more useful than the oarlocks I made.
                            >>I'll try to take some photos of the whole setup and put
                            them in the "joe's AF4" folder when I get a few minutes. 
                            >>http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html
                            >>
                            >>http://www.scotty.com/boating-supplies-equipment/oar-locks.htm
                            >>
                            >>Best, Joe
                            >>
                            >>________________________________
                            >>From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
                            >>To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                            >>Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 6:33 PM
                            >>Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> 
                            >>My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row,
                            especially if there is
                            >>any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here.
                            >>
                            >>In a hull that size I would investigate either a sculling
                            oar or yuloh.
                            >>Similar to stand-up rowing in that you have your entire
                            weight behind
                            >>the stroke using legs for drive but you only have one long
                            oar using
                            >>both hands and is located off the stern quarter so one can
                            control
                            >>direction as well. The pitch of a yuloh is controlled by
                            an attached
                            >>line. rather than having to use your wrists.
                            >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk
                            >><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk>
                            >>
                            >>Nels
                            >>--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Curran Bishop wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>> Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what
                            I'm working on...
                            >>>
                            >>> Thinking about an emergency power source, with the
                            AF4's high sides
                            >>and
                            >>> open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up
                            rowing? I'm not
                            >>> asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but
                            "in a pinch,
                            >>could
                            >>> you eventually get back where you started if the
                            engine died?"
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332
                            nelsarv@... wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>> > **
                            >>> >
                            >>> >
                            >>> > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in
                            boating John! Useful
                            >>for
                            >>> > us old guys to share that stuff.
                            >>> >
                            >>> > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet
                            hull shape in my view
                            >>with
                            >>> > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than
                            stern and the widest
                            >>beam
                            >>> > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the
                            rower stands.
                            >>> > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe
                            design. But quite a
                            >>> > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite
                            mentioned he hoped to
                            >>try
                            >>> > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he
                            offers for a bit more
                            >>> > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the
                            calm of morning and
                            >>then
                            >>> > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit
                            helping with of
                            >>course
                            >>> > it's shorter sticks on board.
                            >>> >
                            >>> > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work
                            with a Teal about as
                            >>> > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe
                            enlarged a bit and center
                            >>temp
                            >>> > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull
                            form?
                            >>> >
                            >>> > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                            >>> >
                            >>> >
                            >>> > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the
                            leverage when
                            >>paddling
                            >>> > from the bottom hand position being lower on the
                            shaft than the
                            >>section
                            >>> > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when
                            you push your upper
                            >>hand
                            >>> > forward and pull the lower hand back. In
                            stand-up paddling you lose
                            >>> > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is
                            a lot longer, so a
                            >>> > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply
                            a steering motion to
                            >>the
                            >>> > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning
                            away from the
                            >>paddle.
                            >>> > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a
                            mechanical advantage as the
                            >>> > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain
                            directional control
                            >>> > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the
                            other so no effort
                            >>wasted
                            >>> > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have
                            a hull you can sail
                            >>> > sitting down inside.
                            >>> >
                            >>> > I also think standing rowing may take some of
                            the pressure off the
                            >>lower
                            >>> > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs
                            as shown in
                            >>Dynamite's
                            >>> > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other
                            and knees flexed a bit
                            >>> > when applying thrust. And of course you can take
                            a break sitting and
                            >>> > rowing in that position using your bike
                            mirror:-)
                            >>> >
                            >>> > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this
                            really interesting to
                            >>> > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of
                            caught my attention.
                            >>And
                            >>> > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
                            >>> >
                            >>> > Nels
                            >>> >
                            >>> >
                            >>> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" wrote:
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a
                            sprit rig. It required
                            >>a
                            >>> > pretty
                            >>> > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly
                            as a sit down row boat.
                            >>It
                            >>> > is
                            >>> > > still around, and has held up pretty well,
                            considering it was
                            >>built 30
                            >>> > some
                            >>> > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood
                            glue, and polyester resin.
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently
                            own a Beach Pea'
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze
                            oar locks (which they
                            >>like
                            >>> > a
                            >>> > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat
                            cheaper and they are as
                            >>good
                            >>> > as
                            >>> > > any I have found (I think they are worth
                            the price).
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists
                            mirror on my glasses
                            >>to
                            >>> > check
                            >>> > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't
                            perfect, but it keeps me from
                            >>> > running
                            >>> > > into anything big. Mostly.
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > > JohnT
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > >
                            >>> > > _____
                            >>> > >
                            >>> >
                            >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            removed]
                            >>> >
                            >>> >
                            >>> >
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> --
                            >>> Curran Bishop
                            >>> 1005 W. Willow St.
                            >>> Carbondale, IL 62901
                            >>> phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                            >>> http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
                            >>>
                            >>> " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                            >>> 'er we try the depth of sea,
                            >>> egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                            >>> unless Thou her helmsman be."
                            >>> -- Old Scottish Prayer
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >


                            --

                            Curran Bishop
                            1005 W. Willow St.
                            Carbondale, IL 62901
                            phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                            http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com

                             " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                                   'er we try the depth of sea,
                                egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                                   unless Thou her helmsman be."
                                                            -- Old Scottish Prayer

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Curran Bishop
                            Thanks for the links. Why would the Scottys/oarlock adapters be preferable to your oak fittings? And why not just do with an angle/site mount oarlock on the
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 5, 2013
                              Thanks for the links. Why would the Scottys/oarlock adapters be preferable
                              to your oak fittings? And why not just do with an angle/site mount oarlock
                              on the coaming? (the fact that isn't not parallel to the water?)


                              On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Joseph Stromski <j.stromski@...>wrote:

                              > The Scotty-type base will work as an oarlock when combined with the #103
                              > Oarlock Adapter:
                              > http://www.amazon.com/Scotty-Oar-Lock-Post-Adapter/dp/B004O0BMGI
                              >
                              > Joe
                              >
                              > ------------------------------
                              > *From:* Joseph Stromski <j.stromski@...>
                              > *To:* Curran Bishop <curranb79@...>
                              > *Cc:* Michalak <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                              > *Sent:* Friday, July 5, 2013 7:33 AM
                              >
                              > *Subject:* Re: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                              >
                              >
                              > A Scotty base is a semi-universal fishing rod holder base, I shouldve
                              > used that instead of the oak oarlock. Scotty is one brand, there's few
                              > other that use the same pettern.
                              >
                              > http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fishing/Fishing-Tools/Fishing-Rod-Holders%7C/pc/104793480/c/104720580/sc/104538780/Cabelas-SideDeck-Mount-Base-for-QuickDraw-and-360HT-Rod-Holders/1586565.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ffishing-rod-holders%2F_%2FN-1100400%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104538780%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104793480%253Bcat104720580&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104793480%3Bcat104720580%3Bcat104538780
                              >
                              > The clips are Mini Quick Fists
                              >
                              > http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html
                              >
                              > Standing up is your only option unless you cut in the oarports. The
                              > gunwales are too high to do anything sitting.
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Curran Bishop <curranb79@...>
                              > To: Joe Stromski <j.stromski@...>
                              > Cc: Michalak <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 11:34 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                              >
                              >
                              > Looks great Joe - couple questions: what's a Scott-type base, what are the
                              > clips holding the oar handles, and do you row standing?
                              >
                              > On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Joe Stromski <j.stromski@...>
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              > I've added photos of my rowing setup in the "Joe's AF4" folder in the
                              > photos section. The setup works well for me, except the caveat of doing
                              > away with the oarlocks in favor of a Scotty-type base.
                              > >Happy Independence Day!
                              > >Joe
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >On 6/29/2013 7:37 PM, Joseph Stromski wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >>Unless you make the oarports that are on the plan (I didn't), rowing
                              > will be a stand up proposition.
                              > >>I've tried it out, and its definitely a "last ditch" means
                              > of propulsion. My back up is a deep cycle battery and a
                              > 45# Minn Kota
                              > >>The oars are still handy to have aboard, they make good
                              > paddles/poles for dockside maneuvering.
                              > >>I made the oars to Jim's plans, they stow with some nylon
                              > strap around the blade and a Mini Quick Fist clamp on the
                              > handle. They're the same length as, and stow on, the cabin
                              > roof.
                              > >>The oarlock is a chunk of white oak with a bronze bushing
                              > epoxied into it, and then glued/screwed to the interior
                              > side. If I were to do it over again, I'd use a Scotty rod
                              > holder base with the #103 oarlock adapter. That way it
                              > could also be used for a fishing rod holder, or a beverage
                              > holder, or anything else that's compatible with that
                              > mount. I'm sure that setup would be plenty strong, and
                              > since the oarlocks are rarely, if ever used, they'd be
                              > much more useful than the oarlocks I made.
                              > >>I'll try to take some photos of the whole setup and put
                              > them in the "joe's AF4" folder when I get a few minutes.
                              > >>
                              > http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html
                              > >>
                              > >>http://www.scotty.com/boating-supplies-equipment/oar-locks.htm
                              > >>
                              > >>Best, Joe
                              > >>
                              > >>________________________________
                              > >>From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
                              > >>To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                              > >>Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 6:33 PM
                              > >>Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row,
                              > especially if there is
                              > >>any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here.
                              > >>
                              > >>In a hull that size I would investigate either a sculling
                              > oar or yuloh.
                              > >>Similar to stand-up rowing in that you have your entire
                              > weight behind
                              > >>the stroke using legs for drive but you only have one long
                              > oar using
                              > >>both hands and is located off the stern quarter so one can
                              > control
                              > >>direction as well. The pitch of a yuloh is controlled by
                              > an attached
                              > >>line. rather than having to use your wrists.
                              > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk
                              > >><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk>
                              > >>
                              > >>Nels
                              > >>--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Curran Bishop wrote:
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what
                              > I'm working on...
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Thinking about an emergency power source, with the
                              > AF4's high sides
                              > >>and
                              > >>> open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up
                              > rowing? I'm not
                              > >>> asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but
                              > "in a pinch,
                              > >>could
                              > >>> you eventually get back where you started if the
                              > engine died?"
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332
                              > nelsarv@... wrote:
                              > >>>
                              > >>> > **
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in
                              > boating John! Useful
                              > >>for
                              > >>> > us old guys to share that stuff.
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet
                              > hull shape in my view
                              > >>with
                              > >>> > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than
                              > stern and the widest
                              > >>beam
                              > >>> > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the
                              > rower stands.
                              > >>> > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe
                              > design. But quite a
                              > >>> > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite
                              > mentioned he hoped to
                              > >>try
                              > >>> > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he
                              > offers for a bit more
                              > >>> > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the
                              > calm of morning and
                              > >>then
                              > >>> > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit
                              > helping with of
                              > >>course
                              > >>> > it's shorter sticks on board.
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work
                              > with a Teal about as
                              > >>> > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe
                              > enlarged a bit and center
                              > >>temp
                              > >>> > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull
                              > form?
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the
                              > leverage when
                              > >>paddling
                              > >>> > from the bottom hand position being lower on the
                              > shaft than the
                              > >>section
                              > >>> > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when
                              > you push your upper
                              > >>hand
                              > >>> > forward and pull the lower hand back. In
                              > stand-up paddling you lose
                              > >>> > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is
                              > a lot longer, so a
                              > >>> > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply
                              > a steering motion to
                              > >>the
                              > >>> > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning
                              > away from the
                              > >>paddle.
                              > >>> > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a
                              > mechanical advantage as the
                              > >>> > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain
                              > directional control
                              > >>> > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the
                              > other so no effort
                              > >>wasted
                              > >>> > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have
                              > a hull you can sail
                              > >>> > sitting down inside.
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > I also think standing rowing may take some of
                              > the pressure off the
                              > >>lower
                              > >>> > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs
                              > as shown in
                              > >>Dynamite's
                              > >>> > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other
                              > and knees flexed a bit
                              > >>> > when applying thrust. And of course you can take
                              > a break sitting and
                              > >>> > rowing in that position using your bike
                              > mirror:-)
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this
                              > really interesting to
                              > >>> > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of
                              > caught my attention.
                              > >>And
                              > >>> > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > Nels
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" wrote:
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a
                              > sprit rig. It required
                              > >>a
                              > >>> > pretty
                              > >>> > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly
                              > as a sit down row boat.
                              > >>It
                              > >>> > is
                              > >>> > > still around, and has held up pretty well,
                              > considering it was
                              > >>built 30
                              > >>> > some
                              > >>> > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood
                              > glue, and polyester resin.
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently
                              > own a Beach Pea'
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze
                              > oar locks (which they
                              > >>like
                              > >>> > a
                              > >>> > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat
                              > cheaper and they are as
                              > >>good
                              > >>> > as
                              > >>> > > any I have found (I think they are worth
                              > the price).
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists
                              > mirror on my glasses
                              > >>to
                              > >>> > check
                              > >>> > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't
                              > perfect, but it keeps me from
                              > >>> > running
                              > >>> > > into anything big. Mostly.
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > > JohnT
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> > > _____
                              > >>> > >
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> >
                              > >>> >
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>> --
                              > >>> Curran Bishop
                              > >>> 1005 W. Willow St.
                              > >>> Carbondale, IL 62901
                              > >>> phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                              > >>> http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
                              > >>>
                              > >>> " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                              > >>> 'er we try the depth of sea,
                              > >>> egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                              > >>> unless Thou her helmsman be."
                              > >>> -- Old Scottish Prayer
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >>>
                              > >>
                              > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >>
                              > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >
                              >
                              > --
                              >
                              > Curran Bishop
                              > 1005 W. Willow St.
                              > Carbondale, IL 62901
                              > phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                              > http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
                              >
                              > " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                              > 'er we try the depth of sea,
                              > egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                              > unless Thou her helmsman be."
                              > -- Old Scottish Prayer
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              --
                              Curran Bishop
                              1005 W. Willow St.
                              Carbondale, IL 62901
                              phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                              http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com

                              " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                              'er we try the depth of sea,
                              egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                              unless Thou her helmsman be."
                              -- Old Scottish Prayer


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Joseph Stromski
                              I d prefer the Scotty base/adapter to the oak oarlock because I ve never actually used them as oarlocks. The Scotty base could hold a GPS mount, a beverage
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 5, 2013
                                I'd prefer the Scotty base/adapter to the oak oarlock because I've never actually used them as oarlocks. The Scotty base could hold a GPS mount, a beverage holder, or fishing rod holder, and still be available for emergency use as an oarlock. The oarlock (as it is) just sits there unused....

                                Best, 
                                Joe


                                ________________________________
                                From: Curran Bishop <curranb79@...>
                                To: Joseph Stromski <j.stromski@...>
                                Cc: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 1:42 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing



                                Thanks for the links.  Why would the Scottys/oarlock adapters be preferable to your oak fittings?  And why not just do with an angle/site mount oarlock on the coaming? (the fact that isn't not parallel to the water?)



                                On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Joseph Stromski <j.stromski@...> wrote:

                                The Scotty-type base will work as an oarlock when combined with the #103 Oarlock Adapter:
                                >http://www.amazon.com/Scotty-Oar-Lock-Post-Adapter/dp/B004O0BMGI
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >Joe
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >________________________________
                                > From: Joseph Stromski <j.stromski@...>
                                >To: Curran Bishop <curranb79@...>
                                >Cc: Michalak <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                                >Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 7:33 AM
                                >
                                >Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                >A Scotty base is a semi-universal fishing rod holder base, I shouldve used that instead of the oak oarlock. Scotty is one brand, there's  few other that use the same pettern.
                                >http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fishing/Fishing-Tools/Fishing-Rod-Holders%7C/pc/104793480/c/104720580/sc/104538780/Cabelas-SideDeck-Mount-Base-for-QuickDraw-and-360HT-Rod-Holders/1586565.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ffishing-rod-holders%2F_%2FN-1100400%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104538780%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104793480%253Bcat104720580&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104793480%3Bcat104720580%3Bcat104538780
                                >
                                >The clips are Mini Quick Fists
                                >http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html
                                >
                                >Standing up is your only option unless you cut in the oarports. The gunwales are too high to do anything sitting.
                                >
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >________________________________
                                >From: Curran Bishop <curranb79@...>
                                >To: Joe Stromski <j.stromski@...>
                                >Cc: Michalak <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                                >Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 11:34 PM
                                >Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                                >
                                >
                                >Looks great Joe - couple questions: what's a Scott-type base, what are the clips holding the oar handles, and do you row standing?
                                >
                                >On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Joe Stromski <j.stromski@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >I've added photos of my rowing setup in the "Joe's AF4" folder in the photos section. The setup works well for me, except the caveat of doing away with the oarlocks in favor of a Scotty-type base.
                                >>Happy Independence Day!
                                >>Joe
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>On 6/29/2013 7:37 PM, Joseph Stromski wrote:
                                >>
                                >> 
                                >>>Unless you make the oarports that are on the plan (I didn't), rowing will be a stand up proposition.
                                >>>I've tried it out, and its definitely a "last ditch" means
                                >of propulsion. My back up is a deep cycle battery and a
                                >45# Minn Kota
                                >>>The oars are still handy to have aboard, they make good
                                >paddles/poles for dockside maneuvering.
                                >>>I made the oars to Jim's plans, they stow with some nylon
                                >strap around the blade and a Mini Quick Fist clamp on the
                                >handle. They're the same length as, and stow on, the cabin
                                >roof.
                                >>>The oarlock is a chunk of white oak with a bronze bushing
                                >epoxied into it, and then glued/screwed to the interior
                                >side. If I were to do it over again, I'd use a Scotty rod
                                >holder base with the #103 oarlock adapter. That way it
                                >could also be used for a fishing rod holder, or a beverage
                                >holder, or anything else that's compatible with that
                                >mount. I'm sure that setup would be plenty strong, and
                                >since the oarlocks are rarely, if ever used, they'd be
                                >much more useful than the oarlocks I made.
                                >>>I'll try to take some photos of the whole setup and put
                                >them in the "joe's AF4" folder when I get a few minutes. 
                                >>>http://www.endroad.com/index.php/quick-fist-mounts/mini-quick-fist-5-8-to-1-3-8.html
                                >>>
                                >>>http://www.scotty.com/boating-supplies-equipment/oar-locks.htm
                                >>>
                                >>>Best, Joe
                                >>>
                                >>>________________________________
                                >>>From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
                                >>>To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                >>>Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 6:33 PM
                                >>>Subject: [Michalak] Re: Stand-up Rowing
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> 
                                >>>My guess is the AF4 would be a bit clumsy to row,
                                >especially if there is
                                >>>any wind, but perhaps an owner could help us here.
                                >>>
                                >>>In a hull that size I would investigate either a sculling
                                >oar or yuloh.
                                >>>Similar to stand-up rowing in that you have your entire
                                >weight behind
                                >>>the stroke using legs for drive but you only have one long
                                >oar using
                                >>>both hands and is located off the stern quarter so one can
                                >control
                                >>>direction as well. The pitch of a yuloh is controlled by
                                >an attached
                                >>>line. rather than having to use your wrists.
                                >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk
                                >>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT0h0gY_JEk>
                                >>>
                                >>>Nels
                                >>>--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Curran Bishop wrote:
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Sorry for relating everything to the AF4 - it's what
                                >I'm working on...
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Thinking about an emergency power source, with the
                                >AF4's high sides
                                >>>and
                                >>>> open cockpit, would it be a candidate for stand up
                                >rowing? I'm not
                                >>>> asking, "would it be an awesome s.u.r. platform?" but
                                >"in a pinch,
                                >>>could
                                >>>> you eventually get back where you started if the
                                >engine died?"
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 7:35 PM, prairiedog2332
                                >nelsarv@... wrote:
                                >>>>
                                >>>> > **
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > Really enjoy reading about you experiences in
                                >boating John! Useful
                                >>>for
                                >>>> > us old guys to share that stuff.
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > The Bolger/Payson Sweet Pea is really a sweet
                                >hull shape in my view
                                >>>with
                                >>>> > a bit more height and sleeker in the bow than
                                >stern and the widest
                                >>>beam
                                >>>> > a bit aft of center for more buoyancy where the
                                >rower stands.
                                >>>> > Asymmetrical hull shape much favored in canoe
                                >design. But quite a
                                >>>> > complicated build, so good for you. Dynamite
                                >mentioned he hoped to
                                >>>try
                                >>>> > it with the 59 sq. ft. LOM standard sail he
                                >offers for a bit more
                                >>>> > sailing speed. He intended to row out in the
                                >calm of morning and
                                >>>then
                                >>>> > ride the onshore breeze back home with the sprit
                                >helping with of
                                >>>course
                                >>>> > it's shorter sticks on board.
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > I have to wonder how stand-up rowing would work
                                >with a Teal about as
                                >>>> > simple a design as you can imagine? Maybe
                                >enlarged a bit and center
                                >>>temp
                                >>>> > form back a bit to give an asymmetrical hull
                                >form?
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > Based on my experience in canoeing one gets the
                                >leverage when
                                >>>paddling
                                >>>> > from the bottom hand position being lower on the
                                >shaft than the
                                >>>section
                                >>>> > above the blade so a mechanical advantage when
                                >you push your upper
                                >>>hand
                                >>>> > forward and pull the lower hand back. In
                                >stand-up paddling you lose
                                >>>> > that as the shaft length below the lower hand is
                                >a lot longer, so a
                                >>>> > mechanical disadvantage. Plus you have to apply
                                >a steering motion to
                                >>>the
                                >>>> > stroke at the end to keep the hull from turning
                                >away from the
                                >>>paddle.
                                >>>> > With stand-up rowing you can maintain a
                                >mechanical advantage as the
                                >>>> > oarlock is the lever point. And you can maintain
                                >directional control
                                >>>> > with just a bit more pull on one oar than the
                                >other so no effort
                                >>>wasted
                                >>>> > in keeping the hull going forward. Plus you have
                                >a hull you can sail
                                >>>> > sitting down inside.
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > I also think standing rowing may take some of
                                >the pressure off the
                                >>>lower
                                >>>> > back as you are thrusting forward with the legs
                                >as shown in
                                >>>Dynamite's
                                >>>> > photo where he has one leg ahead of the other
                                >and knees flexed a bit
                                >>>> > when applying thrust. And of course you can take
                                >a break sitting and
                                >>>> > rowing in that position using your bike
                                >mirror:-)
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > Got a bit carried away here, but I found this
                                >really interesting to
                                >>>> > consider - me not being a rower - it sort of
                                >caught my attention.
                                >>>And
                                >>>> > not that attracted to stand-up paddling.
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > Nels
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" wrote:
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > > I built a Sweet Pea with a fixed keel and a
                                >sprit rig. It required
                                >>>a
                                >>>> > pretty
                                >>>> > > good breeze to move and I used mine mostly
                                >as a sit down row boat.
                                >>>It
                                >>>> > is
                                >>>> > > still around, and has held up pretty well,
                                >considering it was
                                >>>built 30
                                >>>> > some
                                >>>> > > odd years ago out of AC fir, weld wood
                                >glue, and polyester resin.
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > > I'm still fond of pea pods and currently
                                >own a Beach Pea'
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > > Ducktrap Woodworking sells stand up bronze
                                >oar locks (which they
                                >>>like
                                >>>> > a
                                >>>> > > lot). Their regular oarlocks are somewhat
                                >cheaper and they are as
                                >>>good
                                >>>> > as
                                >>>> > > any I have found (I think they are worth
                                >the price).
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > > Being old and arthritic, I use a bicyclists
                                >mirror on my glasses
                                >>>to
                                >>>> > check
                                >>>> > > behind me when I am rowing. It isn't
                                >perfect, but it keeps me from
                                >>>> > running
                                >>>> > > into anything big. Mostly.
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > > JohnT
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> > > _____
                                >>>> > >
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                >removed]
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> >
                                >>>> >
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> --
                                >>>> Curran Bishop
                                >>>> 1005 W. Willow St.
                                >>>> Carbondale, IL 62901
                                >>>> phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                                >>>> http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
                                >>>>
                                >>>> " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                                >>>> 'er we try the depth of sea,
                                >>>> egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                                >>>> unless Thou her helmsman be."
                                >>>> -- Old Scottish Prayer
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>>>
                                >>>
                                >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>>
                                >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>
                                >
                                >--
                                >
                                >Curran Bishop
                                >1005 W. Willow St.
                                >Carbondale, IL 62901
                                >phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                                >http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com
                                >
                                > " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                                >       'er we try the depth of sea,
                                >    egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                                >       unless Thou her helmsman be."
                                >                                -- Old Scottish Prayer
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                --

                                Curran Bishop
                                1005 W. Willow St.
                                Carbondale, IL 62901
                                phone: 70.pastor.10 or 618.305.5725
                                http://thebishopspulpit.blogspot.com

                                 " 'Round our boat be God's aboutness,
                                       'er we try the depth of sea,
                                    egg-shell frail for all her stoutness
                                       unless Thou her helmsman be."
                                                                -- Old Scottish Prayer

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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