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Re: Just bought the book.

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  • m1k3_0ynx
    I really do appreciate all the additional thoughts and information. I enjoyed learning more about the history of the designs. And Chris, good for YOU! Getting
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
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      I really do appreciate all the additional thoughts and information. I enjoyed learning more about the history of the designs.

      And Chris, good for YOU! Getting a mention in the book, and a picture of your build is just great! Now only if fortune did always come with fame. . .

      Partly from my own observations and also from the comments made above, as much as I like the looks of Surf, I really DO think Mayfly would be a better choice for me. Being shorter and being able to transport the boat in a pickup truck with a bed extender, with most of the weight being well inside the bed of the truck is one good reason for the Mayfly. And the more useable space for a crew of two would be another.

      As for the "looks," I have no problem with the Mayfly, I just have a tendency towards boats with a little more "character." I have to say that the more I look at Mayfly, the better it does look to me. Seeing some of the pictures of the boat in the water, under sail really helped with that.

      I would at least consider taking a look at Surf's bowsprit, even though it really doesn't fulfill the function of a bowsprit (no stays attached to it, no jib depending on it,) it is more-or-less decorative.) I will make up some drawings of a similar bowsprit on the Mayfly.

      If it LOOKS right, and not like some ill-conceived afterthought, I may add that to my Mayfly. If it doesn't look like it BELONGS there, I won't do it.

      Looks like I will be buying a set of the building plans. And I'll keep looking at the other builder's post (and that blog!) to see what others are doing and if they come up with other good ideas like a splash rail on the fore deck, I'll think about adding them.

      I will move the Mayfly 14 up to the #2 spot on my build list. The Marsh Style Pirogue will be built first though. Different boats for different reasons.

      Thanks to every one,

      Mike S.
      Spring Hill, FL
    • prairiedog2332
      Unfortunately most of Bolger s books are out of print now but if one is really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a reasonable price.
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
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        Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
        really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
        reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
        and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
        or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

        http://www.abebooks.com
        <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=k\
        n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
        hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

        In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
        "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
        "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
        simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
        One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

        "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
        figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
        to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
        I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
        boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
        at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
        the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
        beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

        As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
        he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
        expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
        Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
        getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
        was as good as it really is.
        http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
        <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

        Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
        wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
        ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
        looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
        plan.

        http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
        <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

        So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
        balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
        Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

        http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
        <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

        You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
        same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
        breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
        and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
        mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
        all be learning to row:-)

        And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
        development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
        chandlery and building supply source options.

        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

        Nels

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, daniel brown wrote:
        >
        > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
        desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
        of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
        canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
        closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Trussell
        Having two of PCB s books together gives some insight to the evolution of boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably designed around
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
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          Having two of PCB's books together gives some insight to the evolution of
          boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably
          designed around 1970. It was designed to test the theory that an 8x4' boat
          could be lively and pleasant to sail. It requires a) lofting, b) setting up
          molds, c) a back bone, d) spiling 11 strakes (and planing lands) which are
          then glued together using "water proof" glue, e) flipping the hull, adding
          floors, floorboards, gunwales, decks and finally f) making 2 leeboards and a
          rudder. Then there is a fully battened sail on a sail track. The whole boat
          would probably eat up 5 or 6 sheets of plywood and a lot of time and labor I
          doubt that many (any?) were ever built, though I ordered a set of plans from
          Suzanne and may build one as entertainment. I find the drawings of
          Fieldmouse to be enchanting.



          Some 45 designs later, PCB drew the Elegant Punt (which later morphed into
          Brick which was became the basis for the now ubiquitous Puddle Duck Racer).
          As PCB mentioned, the later boats go together very quickly and do not
          require learning specialized skills. What he doesn't mention is that
          something like the Elegant punt or PDR doesn't require very much in the way
          of material. On balance, I suppose that the simplified (some might say
          crude) box boats are an advance on the more complicated shapes. Certainly
          the boxes have gotten a lot of people on the water and demonstrated that
          simple shapes perform pretty well. I still think the traditional shapes are
          prettier!



          JohnT



          _____

          From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of prairiedog2332
          Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:56 AM
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History





          Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
          really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
          reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
          and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
          or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

          http://www.abebooks.com
          <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247
          <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=kn%3D
          Bolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bschooner%2
          6sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13> &searchurl=k\
          n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
          hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

          In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
          "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
          "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
          simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
          One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

          "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
          figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
          to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
          I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
          boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
          at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
          the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
          beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

          As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
          he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
          expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
          Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
          getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
          was as good as it really is.
          http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
          <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

          Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
          wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
          ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
          looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
          plan.

          http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
          <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

          So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
          balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
          Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

          http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
          <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

          You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
          same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
          breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
          and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
          mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
          all be learning to row:-)

          And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
          development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
          chandlery and building supply source options.

          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

          Nels

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , daniel
          brown wrote:
          >
          > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
          desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
          of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
          canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
          closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • daniel brown
          about the squareboat aesthetic, i think theres some serious performance potential there. somewhere between a scow and a hobie cat. the side profile of a 12
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            about the squareboat aesthetic, i think theres some serious performance potential there. somewhere between a scow and a hobie cat. the side profile of a 12' goose looks a lot like a hobie's. some performance oriented wacko could probably get some speed out of that hull shape if sailed on edge like a hobie. hobies are raced with one hull just kissing the surface on all points of sail. with sufficient heel and a performance sail a goose (14?) might be a fast boat : 0




            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            From: jtrussell2@...
            Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:04:52 -0400
            Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History





            Having two of PCB's books together gives some insight to the evolution of
            boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably
            designed around 1970. It was designed to test the theory that an 8x4' boat
            could be lively and pleasant to sail. It requires a) lofting, b) setting up
            molds, c) a back bone, d) spiling 11 strakes (and planing lands) which are
            then glued together using "water proof" glue, e) flipping the hull, adding
            floors, floorboards, gunwales, decks and finally f) making 2 leeboards and a
            rudder. Then there is a fully battened sail on a sail track. The whole boat
            would probably eat up 5 or 6 sheets of plywood and a lot of time and labor I
            doubt that many (any?) were ever built, though I ordered a set of plans from
            Suzanne and may build one as entertainment. I find the drawings of
            Fieldmouse to be enchanting.

            Some 45 designs later, PCB drew the Elegant Punt (which later morphed into
            Brick which was became the basis for the now ubiquitous Puddle Duck Racer).
            As PCB mentioned, the later boats go together very quickly and do not
            require learning specialized skills. What he doesn't mention is that
            something like the Elegant punt or PDR doesn't require very much in the way
            of material. On balance, I suppose that the simplified (some might say
            crude) box boats are an advance on the more complicated shapes. Certainly
            the boxes have gotten a lot of people on the water and demonstrated that
            simple shapes perform pretty well. I still think the traditional shapes are
            prettier!

            JohnT

            _____

            From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of prairiedog2332
            Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:56 AM
            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History

            Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
            really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
            reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
            and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
            or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

            http://www.abebooks.com
            <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247
            <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=kn%3D
            Bolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bschooner%2
            6sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13> &searchurl=k\
            n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
            hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

            In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
            "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
            "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
            simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
            One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

            "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
            figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
            to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
            I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
            boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
            at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
            the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
            beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

            As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
            he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
            expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
            Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
            getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
            was as good as it really is.
            http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
            <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

            Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
            wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
            ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
            looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
            plan.

            http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
            <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

            So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
            balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
            Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

            http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
            <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

            You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
            same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
            breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
            and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
            mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
            all be learning to row:-)

            And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
            development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
            chandlery and building supply source options.

            http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

            Nels

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , daniel
            brown wrote:
            >
            > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
            desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
            of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
            canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
            closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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