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Re: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.

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  • John Kohnen
    Surf is a design from the period in Bolger s life when he was obsessed with getting the most out of every sheet of plywood, and using as few sheets as
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
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      Surf is a design from the period in Bolger's life when he was obsessed
      with getting the most out of every sheet of plywood, and using as few
      sheets as possible. Perhaps that explains why Surf is such a Small 15 1/2'
      boat. <g> You sit on the bottom in a Surf, and the bottom is narrow. With
      two people in the boat you run out of room for all the legs. I had trouble
      walking for a while after a friend took me for a ride in his Surf. <g>

      Surf is a good boat for the young and nimble. Mayfly 14 looks like it'll
      be much better for taking the wife along. But I haven't had a chance to
      ride in a Mayfly 14 yet...

      On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:29:06 -0700, Mike S wrote:

      > ...
      > To tell the truth, I was pretty much settled on the boat Payson called
      > the Surf, as it had the looks I was after, would suit my sailing waters
      > fairly well, it should carry both my wife and I, but it would be about
      > max for transport with my pickup with a bed extender.
      >
      > And then there was the fact that I'd rather have a lug rig and would
      > have to work out the changes that would be needed. I thought the Mayfly
      > 14 rig would be the one to move onto the Surf.
      >
      > But the more I read about the Mayfly, the more it looks like it would be
      > a better choice for me, for a variety of reasons. More than likely, I'll
      > probably go with it and move it up to #2 on my build list.
      > ...

      --
      John (jkohnen@...)
      A fool and his money are soon elected. (Will Rogers)
    • prairiedog2332
      There is a bit of history behind Surf. Bolger liked his Elegant Punt design but felt the cost of the sailing rig was way out of proportion to the cost of the
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        There is a bit of "history" behind Surf. Bolger liked his Elegant Punt
        design but felt the cost of the sailing rig was way out of proportion to
        the cost of the boat so asked Dynamite to try the rig on a hull extended
        and tapered 4 ft. on each end since he already had the sail.

        This also added flotation to each end and easier recovery if knocked
        down. Turned out to be a very impressive and fast sailor and therefor a
        favorite of Phils. One drawback was that the tiller location back there
        meant a singlehander was too far back so he meant it to carry some
        ballast in the form of a passenger. A tiller extension an option I would
        suggest as it has the straddle seat design like EP and Tortoise.

        It was the first plan I ever bought from Dynamite but never built it as
        I liked Jim's rudder and leeboard alternative better, plus in my travels
        I lost the sail I bought along with the plans. The sail was $125 from
        Bohndell at that time! I think Surf certainly was studied closely by Jim
        and he - not being as much interested in speed - made his
        interpretations a bit wider and deeper and of course the shallow water
        foil adaptions.

        Excerpt from a National Fisherman article here:

        http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm
        <http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm>


        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" wrote:
        >
        > Surf is a design from the period in Bolger's life when he was obsessed
        > with getting the most out of every sheet of plywood, and using as few
        > sheets as possible. Perhaps that explains why Surf is such a Small 15
        1/2'
        > boat. You sit on the bottom in a Surf, and the bottom is narrow. With
        > two people in the boat you run out of room for all the legs. I had
        trouble
        > walking for a while after a friend took me for a ride in his Surf.
        >
        > Surf is a good boat for the young and nimble. Mayfly 14 looks like
        it'll
        > be much better for taking the wife along. But I haven't had a chance
        to
        > ride in a Mayfly 14 yet...
        >
        > On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:29:06 -0700, Mike S wrote:
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • daniel brown
        i ve liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two of my favorite
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
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          i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )




          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          From: nelsarv@...
          Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:17:13 +0000
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.





          There is a bit of "history" behind Surf. Bolger liked his Elegant Punt
          design but felt the cost of the sailing rig was way out of proportion to
          the cost of the boat so asked Dynamite to try the rig on a hull extended
          and tapered 4 ft. on each end since he already had the sail.

          This also added flotation to each end and easier recovery if knocked
          down. Turned out to be a very impressive and fast sailor and therefor a
          favorite of Phils. One drawback was that the tiller location back there
          meant a singlehander was too far back so he meant it to carry some
          ballast in the form of a passenger. A tiller extension an option I would
          suggest as it has the straddle seat design like EP and Tortoise.

          It was the first plan I ever bought from Dynamite but never built it as
          I liked Jim's rudder and leeboard alternative better, plus in my travels
          I lost the sail I bought along with the plans. The sail was $125 from
          Bohndell at that time! I think Surf certainly was studied closely by Jim
          and he - not being as much interested in speed - made his
          interpretations a bit wider and deeper and of course the shallow water
          foil adaptions.

          Excerpt from a National Fisherman article here:

          http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm
          <http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm>

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" wrote:
          >
          > Surf is a design from the period in Bolger's life when he was obsessed
          > with getting the most out of every sheet of plywood, and using as few
          > sheets as possible. Perhaps that explains why Surf is such a Small 15
          1/2'
          > boat. You sit on the bottom in a Surf, and the bottom is narrow. With
          > two people in the boat you run out of room for all the legs. I had
          trouble
          > walking for a while after a friend took me for a ride in his Surf.
          >
          > Surf is a good boat for the young and nimble. Mayfly 14 looks like
          it'll
          > be much better for taking the wife along. But I haven't had a chance
          to
          > ride in a Mayfly 14 yet...
          >
          > On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:29:06 -0700, Mike S wrote:
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • m1k3_0ynx
          I really do appreciate all the additional thoughts and information. I enjoyed learning more about the history of the designs. And Chris, good for YOU! Getting
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
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            I really do appreciate all the additional thoughts and information. I enjoyed learning more about the history of the designs.

            And Chris, good for YOU! Getting a mention in the book, and a picture of your build is just great! Now only if fortune did always come with fame. . .

            Partly from my own observations and also from the comments made above, as much as I like the looks of Surf, I really DO think Mayfly would be a better choice for me. Being shorter and being able to transport the boat in a pickup truck with a bed extender, with most of the weight being well inside the bed of the truck is one good reason for the Mayfly. And the more useable space for a crew of two would be another.

            As for the "looks," I have no problem with the Mayfly, I just have a tendency towards boats with a little more "character." I have to say that the more I look at Mayfly, the better it does look to me. Seeing some of the pictures of the boat in the water, under sail really helped with that.

            I would at least consider taking a look at Surf's bowsprit, even though it really doesn't fulfill the function of a bowsprit (no stays attached to it, no jib depending on it,) it is more-or-less decorative.) I will make up some drawings of a similar bowsprit on the Mayfly.

            If it LOOKS right, and not like some ill-conceived afterthought, I may add that to my Mayfly. If it doesn't look like it BELONGS there, I won't do it.

            Looks like I will be buying a set of the building plans. And I'll keep looking at the other builder's post (and that blog!) to see what others are doing and if they come up with other good ideas like a splash rail on the fore deck, I'll think about adding them.

            I will move the Mayfly 14 up to the #2 spot on my build list. The Marsh Style Pirogue will be built first though. Different boats for different reasons.

            Thanks to every one,

            Mike S.
            Spring Hill, FL
          • prairiedog2332
            Unfortunately most of Bolger s books are out of print now but if one is really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a reasonable price.
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
              really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
              reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
              and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
              or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

              http://www.abebooks.com
              <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=k\
              n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
              hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

              In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
              "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
              "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
              simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
              One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

              "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
              figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
              to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
              I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
              boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
              at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
              the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
              beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

              As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
              he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
              expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
              Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
              getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
              was as good as it really is.
              http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
              <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

              Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
              wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
              ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
              looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
              plan.

              http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
              <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

              So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
              balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
              Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

              http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
              <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

              You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
              same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
              breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
              and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
              mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
              all be learning to row:-)

              And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
              development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
              chandlery and building supply source options.

              http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

              Nels

              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, daniel brown wrote:
              >
              > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
              desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
              of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
              canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
              closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Trussell
              Having two of PCB s books together gives some insight to the evolution of boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably designed around
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Having two of PCB's books together gives some insight to the evolution of
                boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably
                designed around 1970. It was designed to test the theory that an 8x4' boat
                could be lively and pleasant to sail. It requires a) lofting, b) setting up
                molds, c) a back bone, d) spiling 11 strakes (and planing lands) which are
                then glued together using "water proof" glue, e) flipping the hull, adding
                floors, floorboards, gunwales, decks and finally f) making 2 leeboards and a
                rudder. Then there is a fully battened sail on a sail track. The whole boat
                would probably eat up 5 or 6 sheets of plywood and a lot of time and labor I
                doubt that many (any?) were ever built, though I ordered a set of plans from
                Suzanne and may build one as entertainment. I find the drawings of
                Fieldmouse to be enchanting.



                Some 45 designs later, PCB drew the Elegant Punt (which later morphed into
                Brick which was became the basis for the now ubiquitous Puddle Duck Racer).
                As PCB mentioned, the later boats go together very quickly and do not
                require learning specialized skills. What he doesn't mention is that
                something like the Elegant punt or PDR doesn't require very much in the way
                of material. On balance, I suppose that the simplified (some might say
                crude) box boats are an advance on the more complicated shapes. Certainly
                the boxes have gotten a lot of people on the water and demonstrated that
                simple shapes perform pretty well. I still think the traditional shapes are
                prettier!



                JohnT



                _____

                From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of prairiedog2332
                Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:56 AM
                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History





                Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
                really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
                reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
                and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
                or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

                http://www.abebooks.com
                <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247
                <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=kn%3D
                Bolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bschooner%2
                6sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13> &searchurl=k\
                n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
                hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

                In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
                "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
                "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
                simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
                One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

                "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
                figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
                to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
                I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
                boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
                at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
                the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
                beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

                As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
                he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
                expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
                Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
                getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
                was as good as it really is.
                http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
                <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

                Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
                wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
                ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
                looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
                plan.

                http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

                So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
                balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
                Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

                http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
                <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

                You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
                same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
                breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
                and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
                mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
                all be learning to row:-)

                And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
                development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
                chandlery and building supply source options.

                http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

                Nels

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , daniel
                brown wrote:
                >
                > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
                desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
                of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
                canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
                closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • daniel brown
                about the squareboat aesthetic, i think theres some serious performance potential there. somewhere between a scow and a hobie cat. the side profile of a 12
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  about the squareboat aesthetic, i think theres some serious performance potential there. somewhere between a scow and a hobie cat. the side profile of a 12' goose looks a lot like a hobie's. some performance oriented wacko could probably get some speed out of that hull shape if sailed on edge like a hobie. hobies are raced with one hull just kissing the surface on all points of sail. with sufficient heel and a performance sail a goose (14?) might be a fast boat : 0




                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  From: jtrussell2@...
                  Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:04:52 -0400
                  Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History





                  Having two of PCB's books together gives some insight to the evolution of
                  boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably
                  designed around 1970. It was designed to test the theory that an 8x4' boat
                  could be lively and pleasant to sail. It requires a) lofting, b) setting up
                  molds, c) a back bone, d) spiling 11 strakes (and planing lands) which are
                  then glued together using "water proof" glue, e) flipping the hull, adding
                  floors, floorboards, gunwales, decks and finally f) making 2 leeboards and a
                  rudder. Then there is a fully battened sail on a sail track. The whole boat
                  would probably eat up 5 or 6 sheets of plywood and a lot of time and labor I
                  doubt that many (any?) were ever built, though I ordered a set of plans from
                  Suzanne and may build one as entertainment. I find the drawings of
                  Fieldmouse to be enchanting.

                  Some 45 designs later, PCB drew the Elegant Punt (which later morphed into
                  Brick which was became the basis for the now ubiquitous Puddle Duck Racer).
                  As PCB mentioned, the later boats go together very quickly and do not
                  require learning specialized skills. What he doesn't mention is that
                  something like the Elegant punt or PDR doesn't require very much in the way
                  of material. On balance, I suppose that the simplified (some might say
                  crude) box boats are an advance on the more complicated shapes. Certainly
                  the boxes have gotten a lot of people on the water and demonstrated that
                  simple shapes perform pretty well. I still think the traditional shapes are
                  prettier!

                  JohnT

                  _____

                  From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of prairiedog2332
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:56 AM
                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History

                  Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
                  really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
                  reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
                  and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
                  or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

                  http://www.abebooks.com
                  <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247
                  <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=kn%3D
                  Bolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bschooner%2
                  6sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13> &searchurl=k\
                  n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
                  hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

                  In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
                  "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
                  "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
                  simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
                  One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

                  "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
                  figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
                  to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
                  I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
                  boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
                  at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
                  the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
                  beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

                  As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
                  he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
                  expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
                  Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
                  getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
                  was as good as it really is.
                  http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
                  <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

                  Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
                  wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
                  ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
                  looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
                  plan.

                  http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                  <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

                  So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
                  balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
                  Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

                  http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
                  <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

                  You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
                  same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
                  breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
                  and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
                  mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
                  all be learning to row:-)

                  And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
                  development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
                  chandlery and building supply source options.

                  http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

                  Nels

                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , daniel
                  brown wrote:
                  >
                  > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
                  desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
                  of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
                  canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
                  closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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