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Re: Just bought the book.

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  • prairiedog2332
    The Moffitt s should write their own book at some point. They have a lot of good ideas! Nels ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 13, 2013
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      The Moffitt's should write their own book at some point. They have a lot
      of good ideas!

      Nels

      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "thatmoffitt" wrote:
      >
      > Its a great book and I have re-read it at least 4 times.
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • simonfbroad
      Mike It ll answer half the questions you have, then raise a load more questions that you never knew existed. It s a good read, but I never appreciated how good
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 13, 2013
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        Mike

        It'll answer half the questions you have, then raise a load more questions that you never knew existed.

        It's a good read, but I never appreciated how good until the second time I read it, with a set of Jim's plans in one hand and some cardboard, scissors, and a glue gun in the other.

        Simon.



        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "m1k3_0ynx" <msingle5@...> wrote:
        >
        > I decided to hold off a bit on my question-asking. Seems to me I need to read "Boatbuilding for Beginners (...and Beyond) to see what questions I have left after that!
        >
        > Just paid a visit to Amazon.com, should get the book this Friday. Be nice to take to work as I work Fri, Sat, & Sun, 7P-7A. Sometimes, I have plenty of time to read, sometimes, not so much.
        >
        > Mike S.
        > Spring Hill, FL
        >
      • TomH
        FYI Since you might have time ;) The one true bible in wood-epoxy boat building is now available for free in a PDF format - truly will improve your epoxying
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 13, 2013
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          FYI
          Since you might have time ;)

          The one true bible in wood-epoxy boat building is now available for free in a PDF format - truly will improve your epoxying results (and save lots of noobie errors).

          It's a long read - but it's worth at least browsing all the pages so that later on when you come across a dilemma you might not remember the solution but you will remember that you saw something there and go back to find the details.

          http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/GougeonBook%20061205.pdf

          Have fun, you're starting on the right foot... many just wing it.

          TomH

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "m1k3_0ynx" <msingle5@...> wrote:
          >
          > I decided to hold off a bit on my question-asking. Seems to me I need to read "Boatbuilding for Beginners (...and Beyond) to see what questions I have left after that!
          >
          > Just paid a visit to Amazon.com, should get the book this Friday. Be nice to take to work as I work Fri, Sat, & Sun, 7P-7A. Sometimes, I have plenty of time to read, sometimes, not so much.
          >
          > Mike S.
          > Spring Hill, FL
          >
        • shooter1941
          Mike, I am a first time boat builder and for my first attempt selected JM s Mayfly 14. I bought the plans and also the book. For us newbies (or at least for
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 14, 2013
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            Mike,
            I am a first time boat builder and for my first attempt selected JM's Mayfly 14. I bought the plans and also the book. For us newbies (or at least for me) the book is indispensable especially the section "Building your Boat" which is virtually a manual for the Mayfly 14 build.
            I am an accomplished carpenter but I don't think I could have built it without the book. Not because I can't read plans but for the plethora of "how to" information contained in it of which I had no knowledge.
            I did a great deal of research before attempting to build and have archived at least 100 websites sites/articles concerning all elements of wooden boat building including all of JM's essays. Also I am a member of this, Duckworks, and WoodenBoat forums from which I have gleaned a great deal of valuable information.

            I started the build a week ago and have the hull completely finished and have started working on the peripheral parts. I must say I am quite proud of myself as the hull seems to be almost perfect. The midlines of the stem, bulkheads, temporary forms, and transom all align correctly. I also took measurements from the port and starboard top corners of the transom to the stem mid-point and they are within 1/16th" of each other. It looks good too. I think this is attributed to the fact that I stacked the plywood sheets cut and final planed both hull panels together making them identical, plus constructing the bulkheads and temporary forms precisely to the plan dimensions.

            My planned launch date is June 30th but before that I may put her in a small pond near my house just to see if she floats and determine the waterline.
            Diligently read the book and any other info you can find and just about all your questions will be answered.
            All the Best,
            Colin


            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "m1k3_0ynx" <msingle5@...> wrote:
            >
            > I decided to hold off a bit on my question-asking. Seems to me I need to read "Boatbuilding for Beginners (...and Beyond) to see what questions I have left after that!
            >
            > Just paid a visit to Amazon.com, should get the book this Friday. Be nice to take to work as I work Fri, Sat, & Sun, 7P-7A. Sometimes, I have plenty of time to read, sometimes, not so much.
            >
            > Mike S.
            > Spring Hill, FL
            >
          • Anders Bjorklund
            Congratulations Colin! Sounds like your Mayfly project s going great. By the way, the load waterline for the design should be indicated on the profile drawing.
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 14, 2013
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              Congratulations Colin!

              Sounds like your Mayfly project's going great. By the way, the load
              waterline for the design should be indicated on the profile drawing. If you
              want to scribe that line on the boat, first locate the points on the
              drawing where the waterline meets the hull at the bow and the stern.
              Measure and mark the corresponding points on your hull, and use them to
              level the hull fore-and-aft. Next, carefully level the hull athwartships.
              Then there are a number of ways to locate points along the waterline all
              around the boat, and those points can be connected by using a flexible
              batten. Some people use a water level, others use a laser level, and some
              set up a system of very tight horizontal strings that can be used to sight
              in the load waterline plane. There are probably other good methods as well.
              The designed waterline, or at least some reference points marked at the bow
              and stern, makes it easy to determine if your boat is trimmed correctly
              fore-and-aft. And it looks pretty cool too.

              Best,
              Anders

              On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:02 PM, shooter1941 <cbuxton41@...> wrote:

              > Mike,
              > I am a first time boat builder and for my first attempt selected JM's
              > Mayfly 14. I bought the plans and also the book. For us newbies (or at
              > least for me) the book is indispensable especially the section "Building
              > your Boat" which is virtually a manual for the Mayfly 14 build.
              > I am an accomplished carpenter but I don't think I could have built it
              > without the book. Not because I can't read plans but for the plethora of
              > "how to" information contained in it of which I had no knowledge.
              > I did a great deal of research before attempting to build and have
              > archived at least 100 websites sites/articles concerning all elements of
              > wooden boat building including all of JM's essays. Also I am a member of
              > this, Duckworks, and WoodenBoat forums from which I have gleaned a great
              > deal of valuable information.
              >
              > I started the build a week ago and have the hull completely finished and
              > have started working on the peripheral parts. I must say I am quite proud
              > of myself as the hull seems to be almost perfect. The midlines of the stem,
              > bulkheads, temporary forms, and transom all align correctly. I also took
              > measurements from the port and starboard top corners of the transom to the
              > stem mid-point and they are within 1/16th" of each other. It looks good
              > too. I think this is attributed to the fact that I stacked the plywood
              > sheets cut and final planed both hull panels together making them
              > identical, plus constructing the bulkheads and temporary forms precisely to
              > the plan dimensions.
              >
              > My planned launch date is June 30th but before that I may put her in a
              > small pond near my house just to see if she floats and determine the
              > waterline.
              > Diligently read the book and any other info you can find and just about
              > all your questions will be answered.
              > All the Best,
              > Colin
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • m1k3_0ynx
              I ve read the book cover-to-cover now and I m going back over it now for *serious* study. Got to say it is as good as everyone has said! To tell the truth, I
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 16, 2013
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                I've read the book cover-to-cover now and I'm going back over it now for *serious* study. Got to say it is as good as everyone has said!

                To tell the truth, I was pretty much settled on the boat Payson called the Surf, as it had the looks I was after, would suit my sailing waters fairly well, it should carry both my wife and I, but it would be about max for transport with my pickup with a bed extender.

                And then there was the fact that I'd rather have a lug rig and would have to work out the changes that would be needed. I thought the Mayfly 14 rig would be the one to move onto the Surf.

                But the more I read about the Mayfly, the more it looks like it would be a better choice for me, for a variety of reasons. More than likely, I'll probably go with it and move it up to #2 on my build list.

                Wife looked that build list over and said she really has no interest in a one person boat (like I do,) and I should build the two person boats first. After that, I'm on my own. In this case, I KNOW I'm better off going with that advice. (I'm not stupid, just a slow learner.)

                Mike S.
                Spring Hill, FL
              • shooter1941
                Anders, Thank you very much. I have scrutinized the plans and see no indication on them of the LWL points so I guess I will just have to float her to find
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 16, 2013
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                  Anders,
                  Thank you very much.
                  I have scrutinized the plans and see no indication on them of the LWL points so I guess I will just have to float her to find them. My quandary is how loaded should she be when floated....empty fully rigged, or loaded with passenger and gear weight?
                  Cheers,
                  Colin

                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Anders Bjorklund <andersbjorklund5@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Congratulations Colin!
                  >
                  > Sounds like your Mayfly project's going great. By the way, the load
                  > waterline for the design should be indicated on the profile drawing. If you
                  > want to scribe that line on the boat, first locate the points on the
                  > drawing where the waterline meets the hull at the bow and the stern.
                  > Measure and mark the corresponding points on your hull, and use them to
                  > level the hull fore-and-aft. Next, carefully level the hull athwartships.
                  > Then there are a number of ways to locate points along the waterline all
                  > around the boat, and those points can be connected by using a flexible
                  > batten. Some people use a water level, others use a laser level, and some
                  > set up a system of very tight horizontal strings that can be used to sight
                  > in the load waterline plane. There are probably other good methods as well.
                  > The designed waterline, or at least some reference points marked at the bow
                  > and stern, makes it easy to determine if your boat is trimmed correctly
                  > fore-and-aft. And it looks pretty cool too.
                  >
                  > Best,
                  > Anders
                  >
                  > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:02 PM, shooter1941 <cbuxton41@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Mike,
                  > > I am a first time boat builder and for my first attempt selected JM's
                  > > Mayfly 14. I bought the plans and also the book. For us newbies (or at
                  > > least for me) the book is indispensable especially the section "Building
                  > > your Boat" which is virtually a manual for the Mayfly 14 build.
                  > > I am an accomplished carpenter but I don't think I could have built it
                  > > without the book. Not because I can't read plans but for the plethora of
                  > > "how to" information contained in it of which I had no knowledge.
                  > > I did a great deal of research before attempting to build and have
                  > > archived at least 100 websites sites/articles concerning all elements of
                  > > wooden boat building including all of JM's essays. Also I am a member of
                  > > this, Duckworks, and WoodenBoat forums from which I have gleaned a great
                  > > deal of valuable information.
                  > >
                  > > I started the build a week ago and have the hull completely finished and
                  > > have started working on the peripheral parts. I must say I am quite proud
                  > > of myself as the hull seems to be almost perfect. The midlines of the stem,
                  > > bulkheads, temporary forms, and transom all align correctly. I also took
                  > > measurements from the port and starboard top corners of the transom to the
                  > > stem mid-point and they are within 1/16th" of each other. It looks good
                  > > too. I think this is attributed to the fact that I stacked the plywood
                  > > sheets cut and final planed both hull panels together making them
                  > > identical, plus constructing the bulkheads and temporary forms precisely to
                  > > the plan dimensions.
                  > >
                  > > My planned launch date is June 30th but before that I may put her in a
                  > > small pond near my house just to see if she floats and determine the
                  > > waterline.
                  > > Diligently read the book and any other info you can find and just about
                  > > all your questions will be answered.
                  > > All the Best,
                  > > Colin
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Giuliano Girometta
                  Personally, I will do at fully loaded condition with passengers, gears and rig, plus add at least an additional two inches on the bow and one to the stern.  
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 16, 2013
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                    Personally, I will do at fully loaded condition with passengers, gears and rig, plus add at least an additional two inches on the bow and one to the stern.
                     
                    Giuliano


                    ________________________________
                    From: shooter1941 <cbuxton41@...>
                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:23 PM
                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.

                     


                    Anders,
                    Thank you very much.
                    I have scrutinized the plans and see no indication on them of the LWL points so I guess I will just have to float her to find them. My quandary is how loaded should she be when floated....empty fully rigged, or loaded with passenger and gear weight?
                    Cheers,
                    Colin

                    --- In mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com, Anders Bjorklund <andersbjorklund5@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Congratulations Colin!
                    >
                    > Sounds like your Mayfly project's going great. By the way, the load
                    > waterline for the design should be indicated on the profile drawing. If you
                    > want to scribe that line on the boat, first locate the points on the
                    > drawing where the waterline meets the hull at the bow and the stern.
                    > Measure and mark the corresponding points on your hull, and use them to
                    > level the hull fore-and-aft. Next, carefully level the hull athwartships.
                    > Then there are a number of ways to locate points along the waterline all
                    > around the boat, and those points can be connected by using a flexible
                    > batten. Some people use a water level, others use a laser level, and some
                    > set up a system of very tight horizontal strings that can be used to sight
                    > in the load waterline plane. There are probably other good methods as well.
                    > The designed waterline, or at least some reference points marked at the bow
                    > and stern, makes it easy to determine if your boat is trimmed correctly
                    > fore-and-aft. And it looks pretty cool too.
                    >
                    > Best,
                    > Anders
                    >
                    > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:02 PM, shooter1941 <cbuxton41@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Mike,
                    > > I am a first time boat builder and for my first attempt selected JM's
                    > > Mayfly 14. I bought the plans and also the book. For us newbies (or at
                    > > least for me) the book is indispensable especially the section "Building
                    > > your Boat" which is virtually a manual for the Mayfly 14 build.
                    > > I am an accomplished carpenter but I don't think I could have built it
                    > > without the book. Not because I can't read plans but for the plethora of
                    > > "how to" information contained in it of which I had no knowledge.
                    > > I did a great deal of research before attempting to build and have
                    > > archived at least 100 websites sites/articles concerning all elements of
                    > > wooden boat building including all of JM's essays. Also I am a member of
                    > > this, Duckworks, and WoodenBoat forums from which I have gleaned a great
                    > > deal of valuable information.
                    > >
                    > > I started the build a week ago and have the hull completely finished and
                    > > have started working on the peripheral parts. I must say I am quite proud
                    > > of myself as the hull seems to be almost perfect. The midlines of the stem,
                    > > bulkheads, temporary forms, and transom all align correctly. I also took
                    > > measurements from the port and starboard top corners of the transom to the
                    > > stem mid-point and they are within 1/16th" of each other. It looks good
                    > > too. I think this is attributed to the fact that I stacked the plywood
                    > > sheets cut and final planed both hull panels together making them
                    > > identical, plus constructing the bulkheads and temporary forms precisely to
                    > > the plan dimensions.
                    > >
                    > > My planned launch date is June 30th but before that I may put her in a
                    > > small pond near my house just to see if she floats and determine the
                    > > waterline.
                    > > Diligently read the book and any other info you can find and just about
                    > > all your questions will be answered.
                    > > All the Best,
                    > > Colin
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John Kohnen
                    Surf is a design from the period in Bolger s life when he was obsessed with getting the most out of every sheet of plywood, and using as few sheets as
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
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                      Surf is a design from the period in Bolger's life when he was obsessed
                      with getting the most out of every sheet of plywood, and using as few
                      sheets as possible. Perhaps that explains why Surf is such a Small 15 1/2'
                      boat. <g> You sit on the bottom in a Surf, and the bottom is narrow. With
                      two people in the boat you run out of room for all the legs. I had trouble
                      walking for a while after a friend took me for a ride in his Surf. <g>

                      Surf is a good boat for the young and nimble. Mayfly 14 looks like it'll
                      be much better for taking the wife along. But I haven't had a chance to
                      ride in a Mayfly 14 yet...

                      On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:29:06 -0700, Mike S wrote:

                      > ...
                      > To tell the truth, I was pretty much settled on the boat Payson called
                      > the Surf, as it had the looks I was after, would suit my sailing waters
                      > fairly well, it should carry both my wife and I, but it would be about
                      > max for transport with my pickup with a bed extender.
                      >
                      > And then there was the fact that I'd rather have a lug rig and would
                      > have to work out the changes that would be needed. I thought the Mayfly
                      > 14 rig would be the one to move onto the Surf.
                      >
                      > But the more I read about the Mayfly, the more it looks like it would be
                      > a better choice for me, for a variety of reasons. More than likely, I'll
                      > probably go with it and move it up to #2 on my build list.
                      > ...

                      --
                      John (jkohnen@...)
                      A fool and his money are soon elected. (Will Rogers)
                    • prairiedog2332
                      There is a bit of history behind Surf. Bolger liked his Elegant Punt design but felt the cost of the sailing rig was way out of proportion to the cost of the
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
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                        There is a bit of "history" behind Surf. Bolger liked his Elegant Punt
                        design but felt the cost of the sailing rig was way out of proportion to
                        the cost of the boat so asked Dynamite to try the rig on a hull extended
                        and tapered 4 ft. on each end since he already had the sail.

                        This also added flotation to each end and easier recovery if knocked
                        down. Turned out to be a very impressive and fast sailor and therefor a
                        favorite of Phils. One drawback was that the tiller location back there
                        meant a singlehander was too far back so he meant it to carry some
                        ballast in the form of a passenger. A tiller extension an option I would
                        suggest as it has the straddle seat design like EP and Tortoise.

                        It was the first plan I ever bought from Dynamite but never built it as
                        I liked Jim's rudder and leeboard alternative better, plus in my travels
                        I lost the sail I bought along with the plans. The sail was $125 from
                        Bohndell at that time! I think Surf certainly was studied closely by Jim
                        and he - not being as much interested in speed - made his
                        interpretations a bit wider and deeper and of course the shallow water
                        foil adaptions.

                        Excerpt from a National Fisherman article here:

                        http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm
                        <http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm>


                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" wrote:
                        >
                        > Surf is a design from the period in Bolger's life when he was obsessed
                        > with getting the most out of every sheet of plywood, and using as few
                        > sheets as possible. Perhaps that explains why Surf is such a Small 15
                        1/2'
                        > boat. You sit on the bottom in a Surf, and the bottom is narrow. With
                        > two people in the boat you run out of room for all the legs. I had
                        trouble
                        > walking for a while after a friend took me for a ride in his Surf.
                        >
                        > Surf is a good boat for the young and nimble. Mayfly 14 looks like
                        it'll
                        > be much better for taking the wife along. But I haven't had a chance
                        to
                        > ride in a Mayfly 14 yet...
                        >
                        > On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:29:06 -0700, Mike S wrote:
                        >




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • daniel brown
                        i ve liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two of my favorite
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
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                          i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )




                          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                          From: nelsarv@...
                          Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:17:13 +0000
                          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.





                          There is a bit of "history" behind Surf. Bolger liked his Elegant Punt
                          design but felt the cost of the sailing rig was way out of proportion to
                          the cost of the boat so asked Dynamite to try the rig on a hull extended
                          and tapered 4 ft. on each end since he already had the sail.

                          This also added flotation to each end and easier recovery if knocked
                          down. Turned out to be a very impressive and fast sailor and therefor a
                          favorite of Phils. One drawback was that the tiller location back there
                          meant a singlehander was too far back so he meant it to carry some
                          ballast in the form of a passenger. A tiller extension an option I would
                          suggest as it has the straddle seat design like EP and Tortoise.

                          It was the first plan I ever bought from Dynamite but never built it as
                          I liked Jim's rudder and leeboard alternative better, plus in my travels
                          I lost the sail I bought along with the plans. The sail was $125 from
                          Bohndell at that time! I think Surf certainly was studied closely by Jim
                          and he - not being as much interested in speed - made his
                          interpretations a bit wider and deeper and of course the shallow water
                          foil adaptions.

                          Excerpt from a National Fisherman article here:

                          http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm
                          <http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm>

                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" wrote:
                          >
                          > Surf is a design from the period in Bolger's life when he was obsessed
                          > with getting the most out of every sheet of plywood, and using as few
                          > sheets as possible. Perhaps that explains why Surf is such a Small 15
                          1/2'
                          > boat. You sit on the bottom in a Surf, and the bottom is narrow. With
                          > two people in the boat you run out of room for all the legs. I had
                          trouble
                          > walking for a while after a friend took me for a ride in his Surf.
                          >
                          > Surf is a good boat for the young and nimble. Mayfly 14 looks like
                          it'll
                          > be much better for taking the wife along. But I haven't had a chance
                          to
                          > ride in a Mayfly 14 yet...
                          >
                          > On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:29:06 -0700, Mike S wrote:
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • m1k3_0ynx
                          I really do appreciate all the additional thoughts and information. I enjoyed learning more about the history of the designs. And Chris, good for YOU! Getting
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 17, 2013
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                            I really do appreciate all the additional thoughts and information. I enjoyed learning more about the history of the designs.

                            And Chris, good for YOU! Getting a mention in the book, and a picture of your build is just great! Now only if fortune did always come with fame. . .

                            Partly from my own observations and also from the comments made above, as much as I like the looks of Surf, I really DO think Mayfly would be a better choice for me. Being shorter and being able to transport the boat in a pickup truck with a bed extender, with most of the weight being well inside the bed of the truck is one good reason for the Mayfly. And the more useable space for a crew of two would be another.

                            As for the "looks," I have no problem with the Mayfly, I just have a tendency towards boats with a little more "character." I have to say that the more I look at Mayfly, the better it does look to me. Seeing some of the pictures of the boat in the water, under sail really helped with that.

                            I would at least consider taking a look at Surf's bowsprit, even though it really doesn't fulfill the function of a bowsprit (no stays attached to it, no jib depending on it,) it is more-or-less decorative.) I will make up some drawings of a similar bowsprit on the Mayfly.

                            If it LOOKS right, and not like some ill-conceived afterthought, I may add that to my Mayfly. If it doesn't look like it BELONGS there, I won't do it.

                            Looks like I will be buying a set of the building plans. And I'll keep looking at the other builder's post (and that blog!) to see what others are doing and if they come up with other good ideas like a splash rail on the fore deck, I'll think about adding them.

                            I will move the Mayfly 14 up to the #2 spot on my build list. The Marsh Style Pirogue will be built first though. Different boats for different reasons.

                            Thanks to every one,

                            Mike S.
                            Spring Hill, FL
                          • prairiedog2332
                            Unfortunately most of Bolger s books are out of print now but if one is really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a reasonable price.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
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                              Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
                              really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
                              reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
                              and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
                              or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

                              http://www.abebooks.com
                              <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=k\
                              n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
                              hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

                              In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
                              "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
                              "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
                              simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
                              One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

                              "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
                              figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
                              to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
                              I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
                              boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
                              at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
                              the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
                              beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

                              As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
                              he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
                              expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
                              Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
                              getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
                              was as good as it really is.
                              http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
                              <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

                              Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
                              wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
                              ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
                              looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
                              plan.

                              http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                              <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

                              So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
                              balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
                              Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

                              http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
                              <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

                              You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
                              same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
                              breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
                              and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
                              mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
                              all be learning to row:-)

                              And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
                              development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
                              chandlery and building supply source options.

                              http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

                              Nels

                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, daniel brown wrote:
                              >
                              > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
                              desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
                              of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
                              canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
                              closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
                              >




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John Trussell
                              Having two of PCB s books together gives some insight to the evolution of boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably designed around
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Having two of PCB's books together gives some insight to the evolution of
                                boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably
                                designed around 1970. It was designed to test the theory that an 8x4' boat
                                could be lively and pleasant to sail. It requires a) lofting, b) setting up
                                molds, c) a back bone, d) spiling 11 strakes (and planing lands) which are
                                then glued together using "water proof" glue, e) flipping the hull, adding
                                floors, floorboards, gunwales, decks and finally f) making 2 leeboards and a
                                rudder. Then there is a fully battened sail on a sail track. The whole boat
                                would probably eat up 5 or 6 sheets of plywood and a lot of time and labor I
                                doubt that many (any?) were ever built, though I ordered a set of plans from
                                Suzanne and may build one as entertainment. I find the drawings of
                                Fieldmouse to be enchanting.



                                Some 45 designs later, PCB drew the Elegant Punt (which later morphed into
                                Brick which was became the basis for the now ubiquitous Puddle Duck Racer).
                                As PCB mentioned, the later boats go together very quickly and do not
                                require learning specialized skills. What he doesn't mention is that
                                something like the Elegant punt or PDR doesn't require very much in the way
                                of material. On balance, I suppose that the simplified (some might say
                                crude) box boats are an advance on the more complicated shapes. Certainly
                                the boxes have gotten a lot of people on the water and demonstrated that
                                simple shapes perform pretty well. I still think the traditional shapes are
                                prettier!



                                JohnT



                                _____

                                From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                Of prairiedog2332
                                Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:56 AM
                                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History





                                Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
                                really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
                                reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
                                and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
                                or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

                                http://www.abebooks.com
                                <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247
                                <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=kn%3D
                                Bolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bschooner%2
                                6sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13> &searchurl=k\
                                n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
                                hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

                                In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
                                "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
                                "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
                                simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
                                One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

                                "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
                                figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
                                to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
                                I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
                                boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
                                at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
                                the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
                                beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

                                As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
                                he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
                                expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
                                Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
                                getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
                                was as good as it really is.
                                http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
                                <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

                                Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
                                wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
                                ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
                                looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
                                plan.

                                http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                                <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

                                So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
                                balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
                                Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

                                http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
                                <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

                                You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
                                same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
                                breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
                                and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
                                mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
                                all be learning to row:-)

                                And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
                                development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
                                chandlery and building supply source options.

                                http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

                                Nels

                                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , daniel
                                brown wrote:
                                >
                                > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
                                desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
                                of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
                                canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
                                closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • daniel brown
                                about the squareboat aesthetic, i think theres some serious performance potential there. somewhere between a scow and a hobie cat. the side profile of a 12
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 19, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  about the squareboat aesthetic, i think theres some serious performance potential there. somewhere between a scow and a hobie cat. the side profile of a 12' goose looks a lot like a hobie's. some performance oriented wacko could probably get some speed out of that hull shape if sailed on edge like a hobie. hobies are raced with one hull just kissing the surface on all points of sail. with sufficient heel and a performance sail a goose (14?) might be a fast boat : 0




                                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: jtrussell2@...
                                  Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:04:52 -0400
                                  Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History





                                  Having two of PCB's books together gives some insight to the evolution of
                                  boat designs for homebuilders. Consider Fieldmouse which was probably
                                  designed around 1970. It was designed to test the theory that an 8x4' boat
                                  could be lively and pleasant to sail. It requires a) lofting, b) setting up
                                  molds, c) a back bone, d) spiling 11 strakes (and planing lands) which are
                                  then glued together using "water proof" glue, e) flipping the hull, adding
                                  floors, floorboards, gunwales, decks and finally f) making 2 leeboards and a
                                  rudder. Then there is a fully battened sail on a sail track. The whole boat
                                  would probably eat up 5 or 6 sheets of plywood and a lot of time and labor I
                                  doubt that many (any?) were ever built, though I ordered a set of plans from
                                  Suzanne and may build one as entertainment. I find the drawings of
                                  Fieldmouse to be enchanting.

                                  Some 45 designs later, PCB drew the Elegant Punt (which later morphed into
                                  Brick which was became the basis for the now ubiquitous Puddle Duck Racer).
                                  As PCB mentioned, the later boats go together very quickly and do not
                                  require learning specialized skills. What he doesn't mention is that
                                  something like the Elegant punt or PDR doesn't require very much in the way
                                  of material. On balance, I suppose that the simplified (some might say
                                  crude) box boats are an advance on the more complicated shapes. Certainly
                                  the boxes have gotten a lot of people on the water and demonstrated that
                                  simple shapes perform pretty well. I still think the traditional shapes are
                                  prettier!

                                  JohnT

                                  _____

                                  From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  Of prairiedog2332
                                  Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:56 AM
                                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just bought the book.- Some History

                                  Unfortunately most of Bolger's books are out of print now but if one is
                                  really interested there is one that is available 2nd hand at a
                                  reasonable price. "Bolger Boats" which combines 2 books, "Small Boats"
                                  and "The Folding Schooner." Many of the others go up to as much as $200
                                  or more. I bought mine as well as 30 Odd Boats at AbeBooks.

                                  http://www.abebooks.com
                                  <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247
                                  <http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9350751247&searchurl=kn%3D
                                  Bolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bschooner%2
                                  6sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13> &searchurl=k\
                                  n%3DBolger%2BBoats%2Bcombining%2Bsmall%2Bboat%2Band%2Bthe%2Bfolding%2Bsc\
                                  hooner%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D83%26y%3D13>

                                  In "The Folding Schooner" he writes about his collaboration with Harold
                                  "Dynamite" Payson in developing a building method that became known as
                                  "Instant Boats" in that they required no lofting or building jigs,
                                  simple nail and glue joinery of pre-drawn and cut out pieces of plywood.
                                  One of the earliest ones was Elegant Punt of which Phil writes:

                                  "Harold Payson, doing a little business selling boat plans on the side,
                                  figured that a very small and simple design would 'give 'em confidence'
                                  to tackle something larger. The specification put me in mind of a design
                                  I made years ago for a box factory that wanted to try manufacturing
                                  boats; the proprietor gave the plans to his foreman when the shop opened
                                  at 8 o'clock. He came back at noon to see what the foreman thought of
                                  the idea and found he had built four boats..." So there was the
                                  beginning of Bolger Boxy Boats!

                                  As already mentioned, Surf was an EP with 4 ft. added at each end when
                                  he realized the leg o' mutton sail and foils plan for EP was more
                                  expensive than the boat. Then next he extended Surf and came up with
                                  Zephyr and added a Lateen sail plan. Not many were built as you are
                                  getting up over 20 ft. here, and not many people thought the lateen rig
                                  was as good as it really is.
                                  http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
                                  <http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm>

                                  Another early design was Teal. Two straight parallel lengths of plywood
                                  wrapped around a center frame with some outer flare and joined at the
                                  ends. Presto! - a nice looking hull with rockered bottom and a sweet
                                  looking sheer. Used the same amount of plywood as EP and the same sail
                                  plan.

                                  http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm
                                  <http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm>

                                  So of course he drew one larger and added a larger sail - this time a
                                  balance lug rig. And it was Windsprint. Eventually leading to
                                  Birdwatcher which was longer and had higher transparent topsides.

                                  http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm
                                  <http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm>

                                  You can see where Jim Michalak picked up on these basic concepts and the
                                  same sail plans but added a few more items that to me improved the whole
                                  breed a lot. First was his single kick-up leeboard and rudder designs
                                  and second the addition of flotation chambers at each end and also a
                                  mount and well for a small OB motor on many of them. Phil felt we should
                                  all be learning to row:-)

                                  And finally what really made things feasible for a lot of folks was the
                                  development of polytarp sails and Chuck Lienweber's online boat bits
                                  chandlery and building supply source options.

                                  http://www.duckworksbbs.com/ <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/>

                                  Nels

                                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , daniel
                                  brown wrote:
                                  >
                                  > i've liked the surf design for many years, i have a model of it on my
                                  desk. simply elegant. somewhere between a sailing canoe and a skiff, two
                                  of my favorite types. maybe i'll try a stitch and glue version with more
                                  canoe-like design elements and try to minimize the weight to get it
                                  closer to my idea of it's design potential...so many possibilities : )
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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