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Re: [Michalak] Re: Twin Leeboards

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  • jhargrovewright2@juno.com
    Tim Anderson... I admire the Black Skimmer and the information. What swamp do you reside in? Can you add any comments experience with the bow dagger board.
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 4 3:17 PM
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      Tim Anderson... I admire the Black Skimmer and the information. What swamp do you reside in? Can you add any comments experience with the bow dagger board. That is an unusual place for a foil and I wonder how and why Bolger came up with that arrangement. Any info would be appreciated. JIB

      ---------- Original Message ----------
      From: Tim Anderson <naturalist71261@...>
      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Twin Leeboards
      Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 15:47:55 -0500


      <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
      I had twin air-foiled lee boards on my PCB Black Skimmer, i used the pivots
      that Phil used on Black Gauntlet with 1 degree toe-in. I also added a bow
      dagger board for beating in shallow water. She pointed very high so long as
      i sailed her as flat as possible. Tim P Anderson Swamp Dwelling Boat
      Builder

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Trussell
      I had a Dovekie with a bow centerboard. It worked fine in shallow water. It somewhat offset the lee helm which developed when I reefed. However, if you are in
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 4 3:30 PM
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        I had a Dovekie with a bow centerboard. It worked fine in shallow water. It
        somewhat offset the lee helm which developed when I reefed. However, if you
        are in the habit of heading up in a puff, be aware that the bow centerboard
        will resist heading up-best to ease the sheet.



        JohnT



        _____

        From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of jhargrovewright2@...
        Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 6:18 PM
        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Twin Leeboards





        Tim Anderson... I admire the Black Skimmer and the information. What swamp
        do you reside in? Can you add any comments experience with the bow dagger
        board. That is an unusual place for a foil and I wonder how and why Bolger
        came up with that arrangement. Any info would be appreciated. JIB

        ---------- Original Message ----------
        From: Tim Anderson <naturalist71261@...
        <mailto:naturalist71261%40gmail.com> >
        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Twin Leeboards
        Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 15:47:55 -0500

        <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
        "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
        I had twin air-foiled lee boards on my PCB Black Skimmer, i used the pivots
        that Phil used on Black Gauntlet with 1 degree toe-in. I also added a bow
        dagger board for beating in shallow water. She pointed very high so long as
        i sailed her as flat as possible. Tim P Anderson Swamp Dwelling Boat
        Builder

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • prairiedog2332
        Jim drew a design called Eisbox that had a bow centreboard installed in the free-flooding bow well as an option. There is a cartoon in the files section. The
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 5 5:19 PM
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          Jim drew a design called "Eisbox" that had a bow centreboard installed
          in the free-flooding bow well as an option. There is a cartoon in the
          files section.


          The idea was to lower it enough in shallow water to help prevent lee
          helm as the leeboard was raised. Very simple to add as you don't have to
          worry about sealing the case since it is already inside the
          free-flooding well, so it can be a very shallow rectangular box open at
          the top. The board is in the shape of a quarter circle about 18" in
          diameter. Just needs some weight added so it stays down and a control
          line leads from a tab added to the aft end leading up to a turning block
          at the bow and then back to the helm to raise it to the desired height
          and locked into a jam cleat.


          Eisbox has a 5 ft. deep leeboard so as it is raised in shallows will
          quite likely introduce lee helm and spoil upwind capability. So as the
          leeboard is raised you lower the bow board and hopefully maintain a
          neutral balance at the helm by adjusting both boards as you go along.
          The only thing is that you are restricted to 6" draft on Eisbox as it
          has a skeg ahead of the inboard rudder to protect it - which Jim doesn't
          like all that much - but the fellow who commissioned it insisted on as
          he wanted the OB to be mounted on the centreline. It was intended to
          motor more than sail in the purpose he wanted a boat for. He wanted to
          motor out offshore to fish when the winds were normally too low to sail
          and sail back home when the on-shore breeze arose in the afternoon.


          So a fellow like JIB might be interested in this information if used in
          hull with less draft than Eisbox and likes to sail in the shallows?

          Nels


          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
          >
          > I had a Dovekie with a bow centerboard. It worked fine in shallow
          water. It
          > somewhat offset the lee helm which developed when I reefed. However,
          if you
          > are in the habit of heading up in a puff, be aware that the bow
          centerboard
          > will resist heading up-best to ease the sheet.
          >
          >
          >
          > JohnT
          >
          >
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • jhargrovewright2@juno.com
          Nels, I was not familiar with Eisbox. Interesting boat. I did not find any info on the bow centerboard but have thought about the effects/uses that it might
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 6 6:37 AM
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            Nels, I was not familiar with Eisbox. Interesting boat. I did not find any info on the bow centerboard but have thought about the effects/uses that it might have. I think I understand the purpose and function balancing the boat in shallow water....Clever. I prefer to set up my boats with significant weather helm and rely on the rudder for a good portion of the LR.... I am just as careful building the rudder as the leeboard. I may do a centerboard again but, that is not on the list yet... Thanks for the information. That bow centerboard device has long been a mystery to me. Thanks, you have expanded my understanding of the sailboat, again.,,, I do love to sail in shallow water. At the Texas200 a couple of years ago in my Laguna....I stood on the bow of the boat....in the shade of the forward sail and followed the Matagorda Bay shore in 6" to 1' water sneaking up on the fish and other creature of the shallows. Interesting was that in displacement mode in 5"-6" the boat created a significant breaking 1/4 wave following off the transom. I was running directly down wind (10 mph) and did not have the push needed to plane. JIB
            --------------
            <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> Jim drew a design called "Eisbox" that had a bow centreboard installed
            in the free-flooding bow well as an option. There is a cartoon in the
            files section.

            The idea was to lower it enough in shallow water to help prevent lee
            helm as the leeboard was raised. Very simple to add as you don't have to
            worry about sealing the case since it is already inside the
            free-flooding well, so it can be a very shallow rectangular box open at
            the top. The board is in the shape of a quarter circle about 18" in
            diameter. Just needs some weight added so it stays down and a control
            line leads from a tab added to the aft end leading up to a turning block
            at the bow and then back to the helm to raise it to the desired height
            and locked into a jam cleat.

            Eisbox has a 5 ft. deep leeboard so as it is raised in shallows will
            quite likely introduce lee helm and spoil upwind capability. So as the
            leeboard is raised you lower the bow board and hopefully maintain a
            neutral balance at the helm by adjusting both boards as you go along.
            The only thing is that you are restricted to 6" draft on Eisbox as it
            has a skeg ahead of the inboard rudder to protect it - which Jim doesn't
            like all that much - but the fellow who commissioned it insisted on as
            he wanted the OB to be mounted on the centreline. It was intended to
            motor more than sail in the purpose he wanted a boat for. He wanted to
            motor out offshore to fish when the winds were normally too low to sail
            and sail back home when the on-shore breeze arose in the afternoon.

            So a fellow like JIB might be interested in this information if used in
            hull with less draft than Eisbox and likes to sail in the shallows?

            Nels

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
            >
            > I had a Dovekie with a bow centerboard. It worked fine in shallow
            water. It
            > somewhat offset the lee helm which developed when I reefed. However,
            if you
            > are in the habit of heading up in a puff, be aware that the bow
            centerboard
            > will resist heading up-best to ease the sheet.
            >
            >
            >
            > JohnT
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • prairiedog2332
            As well as Dovekie and Black Skimmer Bolger added a bow board to his Whalewatcher for the same reasons - to help with helm balance. Bolger also tried to
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 6 11:32 AM
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              As well as Dovekie and Black Skimmer Bolger added a bow board to his
              Whalewatcher for the same reasons - to help with helm balance.

              Bolger also tried to develop a bow steering design, based I think on ice
              boats? So a bow board you could adjust a bit to port or starboard would
              probably be interesting like toed in or out with leeboards. I think the
              control mechanisms quickly become complicated for the small gains in
              performance. I think at planing speeds a bow board should be raised.

              Nels
              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@..."
              <jhargrovewright2@...> wrote:
              >
              > Nels, I was not familiar with Eisbox. Interesting boat. I did not
              find any info on the bow centerboard but have thought about the
              effects/uses that it might have. I think I understand the purpose and
              function balancing the boat in shallow water....Clever. I prefer to
              set up my boats with significant weather helm and rely on the rudder for
              a good portion of the LR.... I am just as careful building the rudder
              as the leeboard. I may do a centerboard again but, that is not on the
              list yet... Thanks for the information. That bow centerboard device
              has long been a mystery to me. Thanks, you have expanded my
              understanding of the sailboat, again.,,, I do love to sail in shallow
              water. At the Texas200 a couple of years ago in my Laguna....I stood on
              the bow of the boat....in the shade of the forward sail and followed the
              Matagorda Bay shore in 6" to 1' water sneaking up on the fish and other
              creature of the shallows. Interesting was that in displacement mode in
              5"-6" the boat created a significant breaking 1/4 wave following off the
              transom. I was running directly down wind (10 mph) and did not have the
              push needed to plane. JIB




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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