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Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions

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  • Willie Gussin
    Hello Everyone! I have begun working on a Piccup Pram! I know almost nothing about woodworking, but I knew even less before I started this project; it really
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 3, 2013
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      Hello Everyone!

      I have begun working on a Piccup Pram! I know almost nothing about
      woodworking, but I knew even less before I started this project; it really
      is an amazing learning process, and I really appreciate that.

      These questions are very basic, but I hope you don't mind taking a moment
      to enlighten me.

      Okay, the materials list calls for two 12' pine 2x4's and one 12' redwood
      1x4. What is the redwood used on? Does it specify somewhere on the plans?
      Also, the lumber pieces described in the specifications include many sizes
      of lumber, but not lengths. Do I need to get each of these pieces (a 1 1/2"
      x 3/4", a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2", a 3/4" x 7/8", etc.) from the two pieces of
      pine? There is also a 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" in the specifications for the skeg,
      this is going to use almost an entire 2 x 4 right? Can it be a half inch
      larger by both dimensions and just not cut the 2 x 4? Also, will the
      lumberyard rip these boards for me into all of the different sizes? Are
      some of them flexible measurements and some of them are definite? Are there
      procedures somewhere on how to get all of these pieces out of the lumber on
      the materials list?

      I think one of the main issues (besides the lack of knowledge) is that I
      don't have any excess wood sitting around from other projects, so I need to
      buy and cut all lumber used.

      Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to explain any of these
      questions I am having!


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Eugene Dixon
      Hi Willie   Welcome to piccup club.      Most of us buy stock lumber--1x4  1x6 2x4 ect, and rip/cut to size,  Thre Redwood for gennels  is mostly for
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 3, 2013
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        Hi Willie
          Welcome to piccup club. 
            Most of us buy stock lumber--1x4  1x6 2x4 ect, and rip/cut to size,  Thre Redwood for gennels  is mostly for looks.
        If you havent IMs book you really need to get it, it well anser 99% of questions
          example::  3/4 is standard 1" lumber,   lengths are basicaly gut to fit need.
        Eugene   located in Oklahoma
            where are you located?


        ________________________________
        From: Willie Gussin <wgussin@...>
        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 8:40 PM
        Subject: [Michalak] Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions


         

        Hello Everyone!

        I have begun working on a Piccup Pram! I know almost nothing about
        woodworking, but I knew even less before I started this project; it really
        is an amazing learning process, and I really appreciate that.

        These questions are very basic, but I hope you don't mind taking a moment
        to enlighten me.

        Okay, the materials list calls for two 12' pine 2x4's and one 12' redwood
        1x4. What is the redwood used on? Does it specify somewhere on the plans?
        Also, the lumber pieces described in the specifications include many sizes
        of lumber, but not lengths. Do I need to get each of these pieces (a 1 1/2"
        x 3/4", a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2", a 3/4" x 7/8", etc.) from the two pieces of
        pine? There is also a 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" in the specifications for the skeg,
        this is going to use almost an entire 2 x 4 right? Can it be a half inch
        larger by both dimensions and just not cut the 2 x 4? Also, will the
        lumberyard rip these boards for me into all of the different sizes? Are
        some of them flexible measurements and some of them are definite? Are there
        procedures somewhere on how to get all of these pieces out of the lumber on
        the materials list?

        I think one of the main issues (besides the lack of knowledge) is that I
        don't have any excess wood sitting around from other projects, so I need to
        buy and cut all lumber used.

        Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to explain any of these
        questions I am having!

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andre
        Hi Willie, I was exactly the same a few weeks ago. Questions were answered just stepping by the local lumberyard. Instead of going throught BOM I read
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 4, 2013
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          Hi Willie,

          I was exactly the same a few weeks ago.
          Questions were answered just stepping by the local lumberyard.
          Instead of going throught BOM I read carefully Jims instructions and made a mental dry run taking notes of every material needed. Helped a lot to understand lumber sizes and Where to fix them.
          Pine here refers to a wide variaty of wood. I pic pinus elliotis. ...not recommended to build boats one would say but readly available light weight and cheap.
          There are at least to piccups under build in the group. Mine and Mike's. Hope to see pictures of yours soon.
          Keep us posted.

          Andre.

          Willie Gussin <wgussin@...> escreveu:

          >Hello Everyone!
          >
          >I have begun working on a Piccup Pram! I know almost nothing about
          >woodworking, but I knew even less before I started this project; it really
          >is an amazing learning process, and I really appreciate that.
          >
          >These questions are very basic, but I hope you don't mind taking a moment
          >to enlighten me.
          >
          >Okay, the materials list calls for two 12' pine 2x4's and one 12' redwood
          >1x4. What is the redwood used on? Does it specify somewhere on the plans?
          >Also, the lumber pieces described in the specifications include many sizes
          >of lumber, but not lengths. Do I need to get each of these pieces (a 1 1/2"
          >x 3/4", a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2", a 3/4" x 7/8", etc.) from the two pieces of
          >pine? There is also a 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" in the specifications for the skeg,
          >this is going to use almost an entire 2 x 4 right? Can it be a half inch
          >larger by both dimensions and just not cut the 2 x 4? Also, will the
          >lumberyard rip these boards for me into all of the different sizes? Are
          >some of them flexible measurements and some of them are definite? Are there
          >procedures somewhere on how to get all of these pieces out of the lumber on
          >the materials list?
          >
          >I think one of the main issues (besides the lack of knowledge) is that I
          >don't have any excess wood sitting around from other projects, so I need to
          >buy and cut all lumber used.
          >
          >Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to explain any of these
          >questions I am having!
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • boat2swim
          Forgive me if I am being dense, but I don t understand what you mean by: 3/4 is standard 1 lumber. I do have Jim s book (assuming you are referring to
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 4, 2013
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            Forgive me if I am being dense, but I don't understand what you mean by: "3/4 is standard 1" lumber." I do have Jim's book (assuming you are referring to Boatbuilding for Beginners (and Beyond), and I have read through entirely, but haven't found the answers to these questions. Can you point me to certain sections?

            I am located in Southeastern Vermont, in a town called Brattleboro.

            Thanks for the help!

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Eugene Dixon <edixon193941@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Willie
            >   Welcome to piccup club. 
            >     Most of us buy stock lumber--1x4  1x6 2x4 ect, and rip/cut to size,  Thre Redwood for gennels  is mostly for looks.
            > If you havent IMs book you really need to get it, it well anser 99% of questions
            >   example::  3/4 is standard 1" lumber,   lengths are basicaly gut to fit need.
            > Eugene   located in Oklahoma
            >     where are you located?
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Willie Gussin <wgussin@...>
            > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 8:40 PM
            > Subject: [Michalak] Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > Hello Everyone!
            >
            > I have begun working on a Piccup Pram! I know almost nothing about
            > woodworking, but I knew even less before I started this project; it really
            > is an amazing learning process, and I really appreciate that.
            >
            > These questions are very basic, but I hope you don't mind taking a moment
            > to enlighten me.
            >
            > Okay, the materials list calls for two 12' pine 2x4's and one 12' redwood
            > 1x4. What is the redwood used on? Does it specify somewhere on the plans?
            > Also, the lumber pieces described in the specifications include many sizes
            > of lumber, but not lengths. Do I need to get each of these pieces (a 1 1/2"
            > x 3/4", a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2", a 3/4" x 7/8", etc.) from the two pieces of
            > pine? There is also a 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" in the specifications for the skeg,
            > this is going to use almost an entire 2 x 4 right? Can it be a half inch
            > larger by both dimensions and just not cut the 2 x 4? Also, will the
            > lumberyard rip these boards for me into all of the different sizes? Are
            > some of them flexible measurements and some of them are definite? Are there
            > procedures somewhere on how to get all of these pieces out of the lumber on
            > the materials list?
            >
            > I think one of the main issues (besides the lack of knowledge) is that I
            > don't have any excess wood sitting around from other projects, so I need to
            > buy and cut all lumber used.
            >
            > Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to explain any of these
            > questions I am having!
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Eugene Dixon
            Mornin Willlie   When you go to lumber yard or bigbox store, look at  priceing lables, you will see such things as 1 x4 1 x 6 ,  2 x 4  ect.
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 4, 2013
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              Mornin Willlie
                When you go to lumber yard or bigbox store, look at  priceing lables, you will see such things as 1 x4 1 x 6 ,  2 x 4  ect.
                          back in old times lumber was actually sold  as call edl say 1 inch was 1 in. Thru  processing at mills lumber today
              is finished{planed]  to finished  dimension--1 inch actually becomes 3/4 inch    2 x becomes 1 1/2 inch. Same thing happens to width.
                1 x 4 actually becomes  3/4  x 3 1/2.
                 Your confusiion comes from  JM,. he assumes every one has the ability/ tools to take that 2 x4 and rip(cut) it into 1 1/2 inch strips
              I personaly dont think it is worth the trouble or money savings.      Let me know what you have in the way of tools-will try to give you
              more help/
              Eugene
               
              Goggle--m Port of Catoosa  thats where I am,                   
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
              eugen

              ________________________________
              From: boat2swim <wgussin@...>
              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 6:38 AM
              Subject: [Michalak] Re: Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions


               

              Forgive me if I am being dense, but I don't understand what you mean by: "3/4 is standard 1" lumber." I do have Jim's book (assuming you are referring to Boatbuilding for Beginners (and Beyond), and I have read through entirely, but haven't found the answers to these questions. Can you point me to certain sections?

              I am located in Southeastern Vermont, in a town called Brattleboro.

              Thanks for the help!

              --- In mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com, Eugene Dixon wrote:
              >
              > Hi Willie
              >   Welcome to piccup club. 
              >     Most of us buy stock lumber--1x4  1x6 2x4 ect, and rip/cut to size,  Thre Redwood for gennels  is mostly for looks.
              > If you havent IMs book you really need to get it, it well anser 99% of questions
              >   example::  3/4 is standard 1" lumber,   lengths are basicaly gut to fit need.
              > Eugene   located in Oklahoma
              >     where are you located?
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Willie Gussin
              > To: mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 8:40 PM
              > Subject: [Michalak] Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > Hello Everyone!
              >
              > I have begun working on a Piccup Pram! I know almost nothing about
              > woodworking, but I knew even less before I started this project; it really
              > is an amazing learning process, and I really appreciate that.
              >
              > These questions are very basic, but I hope you don't mind taking a moment
              > to enlighten me.
              >
              > Okay, the materials list calls for two 12' pine 2x4's and one 12' redwood
              > 1x4. What is the redwood used on? Does it specify somewhere on the plans?
              > Also, the lumber pieces described in the specifications include many sizes
              > of lumber, but not lengths. Do I need to get each of these pieces (a 1 1/2"
              > x 3/4", a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2", a 3/4" x 7/8", etc.) from the two pieces of
              > pine? There is also a 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" in the specifications for the skeg,
              > this is going to use almost an entire 2 x 4 right? Can it be a half inch
              > larger by both dimensions and just not cut the 2 x 4? Also, will the
              > lumberyard rip these boards for me into all of the different sizes? Are
              > some of them flexible measurements and some of them are definite? Are there
              > procedures somewhere on how to get all of these pieces out of the lumber on
              > the materials list?
              >
              > I think one of the main issues (besides the lack of knowledge) is that I
              > don't have any excess wood sitting around from other projects, so I need to
              > buy and cut all lumber used.
              >
              > Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to explain any of these
              > questions I am having!
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • prairiedog2332
              Willie, You can study a dimensional lumber sizing chart here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber The confusion is that the actual dimensions are different
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 4, 2013
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                Willie,

                You can study a dimensional lumber sizing chart here.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber

                The confusion is that the " actual" dimensions are different than the
                "nominal" dimensions. That is because the original rough board loses
                it's size when it gets planed smooth and the chart shows how much gets
                planed off. The other thing is that a lot of lumber at your regular yard
                is not specified as to type of tree it came from and most is soft wood
                from evergreen trees. Here in Canada it is usually referred to as SPF
                meaning it might be spruce, pine or fir. Doesn't really matter just try
                to pick out boards that are as free of knots as possible and the grain
                is fairly straight. Where it calls for redwood - for the wales - you can
                also use cedar or tropical "mahogany" as well - or even white oak or
                ash.

                The ability to rip boards to smaller widths is really an advantage as a
                wider board is generally better quality. And also the ability to
                laminate thinner boards (strips) to make a wider board when having to go
                around curves. For wales you can use a thin strip with short blocks
                attached in between the strip and the hull and get a pretty strong wale
                that drains when the hull is inverted. Need some clamps for that. For a
                mast you can also research aluminum tubing and the yard and boom do not
                have to be round.

                I visited Brattleboro one time. Beautiful town and area.

                Nels


                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "boat2swim" <wgussin@...> wrote:
                >
                > Forgive me if I am being dense, but I don't understand what you mean
                by: "3/4 is standard 1" lumber." I do have Jim's book (assuming you are
                referring to Boatbuilding for Beginners (and Beyond), and I have read
                through entirely, but haven't found the answers to these questions. Can
                you point me to certain sections?
                >
                > I am located in Southeastern Vermont, in a town called Brattleboro.
                >
                > Thanks for the help!




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andres Espino
                when the lumberyard planes down standard 1 inch board it becomes 3/4 thick. Most people who draw up plans for boats want true lumber dimensions (where 1in is
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 4, 2013
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                  when the lumberyard planes down standard 1" inch board it becomes 3/4 thick.

                  Most people who draw up plans for boats want true lumber dimensions (where 1in is actually 1in)  but a lot like Jim Michalak and Jeff Spira take that into account in their plans which makes home building easier.

                  Andrew




                  ________________________________
                  From: boat2swim <wgussin@...>
                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 5:38 AM
                  Subject: [Michalak] Re: Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions


                   
                  Forgive me if I am being dense, but I don't understand what you mean by: "3/4 is standard 1" lumber." I do have Jim's book (assuming you are referring to Boatbuilding for Beginners (and Beyond), and I have read through entirely, but haven't found the answers to these questions. Can you point me to certain sections?

                  I am located in Southeastern Vermont, in a town called Brattleboro.

                  Thanks for the help!

                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Eugene Dixon wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Willie
                  >   Welcome to piccup club. 
                  >     Most of us buy stock lumber--1x4  1x6 2x4 ect, and rip/cut to size,  Thre Redwood for gennels  is mostly for looks.
                  > If you havent IMs book you really need to get it, it well anser 99% of questions
                  >   example::  3/4 is standard 1" lumber,   lengths are basicaly gut to fit need.
                  > Eugene   located in Oklahoma
                  >     where are you located?
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Willie Gussin
                  > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 8:40 PM
                  > Subject: [Michalak] Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > Hello Everyone!
                  >
                  > I have begun working on a Piccup Pram! I know almost nothing about
                  > woodworking, but I knew even less before I started this project; it really
                  > is an amazing learning process, and I really appreciate that.
                  >
                  > These questions are very basic, but I hope you don't mind taking a moment
                  > to enlighten me.
                  >
                  > Okay, the materials list calls for two 12' pine 2x4's and one 12' redwood
                  > 1x4. What is the redwood used on? Does it specify somewhere on the plans?
                  > Also, the lumber pieces described in the specifications include many sizes
                  > of lumber, but not lengths. Do I need to get each of these pieces (a 1 1/2"
                  > x 3/4", a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2", a 3/4" x 7/8", etc.) from the two pieces of
                  > pine? There is also a 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" in the specifications for the skeg,
                  > this is going to use almost an entire 2 x 4 right? Can it be a half inch
                  > larger by both dimensions and just not cut the 2 x 4? Also, will the
                  > lumberyard rip these boards for me into all of the different sizes? Are
                  > some of them flexible measurements and some of them are definite? Are there
                  > procedures somewhere on how to get all of these pieces out of the lumber on
                  > the materials list?
                  >
                  > I think one of the main issues (besides the lack of knowledge) is that I
                  > don't have any excess wood sitting around from other projects, so I need to
                  > buy and cut all lumber used.
                  >
                  > Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to explain any of these
                  > questions I am having!
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mike
                  Willie, The one probblem I ran into with the lumber dimensions was that the sureply plywood I used wasn t 1/4 inch. It was 5.5 mm. I was concerned about the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 4, 2013
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                    Willie,
                    The one probblem I ran into with the lumber dimensions was that the sureply plywood I used wasn't 1/4 inch. It was 5.5 mm. I was concerned about the fact that it was actually thinner then the JM's plans called for so I posted the question and asked for some suggestions. Do a search on the forum for piccup pram and if you look at messages around June 4, 2012 you will see a lot of good information from Scott McPherson, Dave Calloway, Martin Houston and Nels on how to compensate for the difference in thickness.

                    I ended up glassing over the outside of the hull with thicker fiberglass cloth (10 oz) to make up the difference in thickness and strength.I am laminating an extra layer of plywood on inside bottom in cockpit area just for strength and wear and tear and will cover with a skim coat of expoxy resin. I know that's overkill but where I sail normally has a pretty good chop just about everyday so it can't hurt.

                    Also I did the waterproof test that Nels or someone else recommended with a piece of the plywood and it worked fine. Test was to boil a small piece of the plywood for an hour. I ran it a little longer and the plywood did not delaminate which meant that the glue used between the plywood layers held up.

                    Good luck with your build. I posted photos of mine about a week ago under mike's piccup.

                    Regards,
                    Mike

                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Willie,
                    >
                    > You can study a dimensional lumber sizing chart here.
                    >
                    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber
                    >
                    > The confusion is that the " actual" dimensions are different than the
                    > "nominal" dimensions. That is because the original rough board loses
                    > it's size when it gets planed smooth and the chart shows how much gets
                    > planed off. The other thing is that a lot of lumber at your regular yard
                    > is not specified as to type of tree it came from and most is soft wood
                    > from evergreen trees. Here in Canada it is usually referred to as SPF
                    > meaning it might be spruce, pine or fir. Doesn't really matter just try
                    > to pick out boards that are as free of knots as possible and the grain
                    > is fairly straight. Where it calls for redwood - for the wales - you can
                    > also use cedar or tropical "mahogany" as well - or even white oak or
                    > ash.
                    >
                    > The ability to rip boards to smaller widths is really an advantage as a
                    > wider board is generally better quality. And also the ability to
                    > laminate thinner boards (strips) to make a wider board when having to go
                    > around curves. For wales you can use a thin strip with short blocks
                    > attached in between the strip and the hull and get a pretty strong wale
                    > that drains when the hull is inverted. Need some clamps for that. For a
                    > mast you can also research aluminum tubing and the yard and boom do not
                    > have to be round.
                    >
                    > I visited Brattleboro one time. Beautiful town and area.
                    >
                    > Nels
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "boat2swim" <wgussin@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Forgive me if I am being dense, but I don't understand what you mean
                    > by: "3/4 is standard 1" lumber." I do have Jim's book (assuming you are
                    > referring to Boatbuilding for Beginners (and Beyond), and I have read
                    > through entirely, but haven't found the answers to these questions. Can
                    > you point me to certain sections?
                    > >
                    > > I am located in Southeastern Vermont, in a town called Brattleboro.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for the help!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • John Trussell
                    For most small boats, ‘natural wood’ (as opposed to plywood) is used in part as stiffeners and in part as glue/clamping blocks. IMHO. neither of these
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 4, 2013
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                      For most small boats, ‘natural wood’ (as opposed to plywood) is used in part
                      as stiffeners and in part as glue/clamping blocks. IMHO. neither of these
                      applications is extraordinarily critical and lumber with dimensions plus or
                      minus ¼ inch are acceptable.



                      JohnT



                      _____

                      From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Andres Espino
                      Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 2:16 PM
                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions





                      when the lumberyard planes down standard 1" inch board it becomes 3/4 thick.

                      Most people who draw up plans for boats want true lumber dimensions (where
                      1in is actually 1in) but a lot like Jim Michalak and Jeff Spira take that
                      into account in their plans which makes home building easier.

                      Andrew

                      ________________________________
                      From: boat2swim wgussin@... <mailto:wgussin%40gmail.com> >
                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 5:38 AM
                      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions



                      Forgive me if I am being dense, but I don't understand what you mean by:
                      "3/4 is standard 1" lumber." I do have Jim's book (assuming you are
                      referring to Boatbuilding for Beginners (and Beyond), and I have read
                      through entirely, but haven't found the answers to these questions. Can you
                      point me to certain sections?

                      I am located in Southeastern Vermont, in a town called Brattleboro.

                      Thanks for the help!

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , Eugene
                      Dixon wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Willie
                      > Â Welcome to piccup club.Â
                      > Â Â Â Most of us buy stock lumber--1x4Â 1x6 2x4 ect, and rip/cut to
                      size, Thre Redwood for gennels  is mostly for looks.
                      > If you havent IMs book you really need to get it, it well anser 99% of
                      questions
                      >  example:: 3/4 is standard 1" lumber,  lengths are basicaly gut to
                      fit need.
                      > Eugene  located in Oklahoma
                      > Â Â Â where are you located?
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Willie Gussin
                      > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 8:40 PM
                      > Subject: [Michalak] Piccup Pram - Lumber Questions
                      >
                      >
                      > Â
                      >
                      > Hello Everyone!
                      >
                      > I have begun working on a Piccup Pram! I know almost nothing about
                      > woodworking, but I knew even less before I started this project; it really
                      > is an amazing learning process, and I really appreciate that.
                      >
                      > These questions are very basic, but I hope you don't mind taking a moment
                      > to enlighten me.
                      >
                      > Okay, the materials list calls for two 12' pine 2x4's and one 12' redwood
                      > 1x4. What is the redwood used on? Does it specify somewhere on the plans?
                      > Also, the lumber pieces described in the specifications include many sizes
                      > of lumber, but not lengths. Do I need to get each of these pieces (a 1
                      1/2"
                      > x 3/4", a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2", a 3/4" x 7/8", etc.) from the two pieces of
                      > pine? There is also a 3 1/2" x 1 1/2" in the specifications for the skeg,
                      > this is going to use almost an entire 2 x 4 right? Can it be a half inch
                      > larger by both dimensions and just not cut the 2 x 4? Also, will the
                      > lumberyard rip these boards for me into all of the different sizes? Are
                      > some of them flexible measurements and some of them are definite? Are
                      there
                      > procedures somewhere on how to get all of these pieces out of the lumber
                      on
                      > the materials list?
                      >
                      > I think one of the main issues (besides the lack of knowledge) is that I
                      > don't have any excess wood sitting around from other projects, so I need
                      to
                      > buy and cut all lumber used.
                      >
                      > Thank you so much to anyone who takes the time to explain any of these
                      > questions I am having!
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >

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                    • prairiedog2332
                      Very good point made by John T. In traditional boat building terms this is often referred to as Scantlings . It is interesting to note that Bolger tended
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 4, 2013
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                        Very good point made by John T.

                        In "traditional boat building " terms this is often referred to as
                        "Scantlings". It is interesting to note that Bolger tended to go with
                        as light as possible and many builders increased them and Jim being a
                        great believer in Bolger's work tended to design his with a bit heavier
                        scantlings as a result. Also the dimensional lumber and plywood these
                        days are not as good as back in Bolger's earlier "instant boats" days.

                        It also depends on the boat. For example in a light rowing design you
                        can go a bit lighter. Just enough dimension to hold the fasteners of
                        your choice. Ring nails don't need much to hold tenaciously when
                        combined with a good glue. Just make sure you hit the bulkhead frame
                        wood with the nails. And with stitch and tape you don't need anything
                        for the lightest strength /weight ratio.

                        If wanting to use a motor, then don't scrimp with the transom framing
                        though - both bow and stern - nor the stem on a pointy design.

                        Jim also prefers to use lumber, (1x4) rather than plywood for the
                        backing plates in in a butt joint so they can be locked in with ring
                        nails or screws rather than having to "clinch" copper wire nails as
                        Payson does in his Bolger designs which require a helper to do right.

                        As a side note my lumber yard often stocks tropical mahogany cheaper
                        than clear fir. For those worried about the "rain forest" depletion,
                        clear fir comes from the west coast rain forests.

                        Nels

                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > For most small boats, `natural wood' (as opposed to plywood)
                        is used in part
                        > as stiffeners and in part as glue/clamping blocks. IMHO. neither of
                        these
                        > applications is extraordinarily critical and lumber with dimensions
                        plus or
                        > minus ¼ inch are acceptable.

                        > JohnT
                        >
                        >




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