Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Iain Oughtred on Leeboards

Expand Messages
  • Tom Hart
    Re comment from souderscott997: It is funny that I read a statement from Iain Oughtred himself basically saying the leeboards are in many ways far better than
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 11, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Re comment from souderscott997:
      It is funny that I read a statement from Iain Oughtred himself basically saying the leeboards are in many ways far better than centerboards.

      Would you mind telling us the main points Iain made, please?

      I once owned an Oughtred-designed Whilly Boat, a very fine 14' 6" double-ender for sail and oar.

      Tom.
    • John Boy
      All you need is to jamb a centerboard once, then you ll know why ^%$#@ centerboards suck. John Boy   I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 11, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        All you need is to jamb a centerboard once, then you'll know why ^%$#@ centerboards suck.
        John Boy
         


        I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

        “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

        Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island


        ________________________________
        From: Tom Hart <tomhart92@...>
        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 8:32 AM
        Subject: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards


         
        Re comment from souderscott997:
        It is funny that I read a statement from Iain Oughtred himself basically saying the leeboards are in many ways far better than centerboards.

        Would you mind telling us the main points Iain made, please?

        I once owned an Oughtred-designed Whilly Boat, a very fine 14' 6" double-ender for sail and oar.

        Tom.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Martin Houston
        Dagger boards are bad too, I like lee boards, had them on my dory, worked great.   ________________________________ From: John Boy To:
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 11, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Dagger boards are bad too, I like lee boards, had them on my dory, worked great.
           


          ________________________________
          From: John Boy <t1ro2003@...>
          To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 3:17 PM
          Subject: Re: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards

           

          All you need is to jamb a centerboard once, then you'll know why ^%$#@ centerboards suck.
          John Boy
           

          I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

          “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

          Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island

          ________________________________
          From: Tom Hart mailto:tomhart92%40gmail.com>
          To: mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 8:32 AM
          Subject: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards


           
          Re comment from souderscott997:
          It is funny that I read a statement from Iain Oughtred himself basically saying the leeboards are in many ways far better than centerboards.

          Would you mind telling us the main points Iain made, please?

          I once owned an Oughtred-designed Whilly Boat, a very fine 14' 6" double-ender for sail and oar.

          Tom.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Scott Souder
          Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for work. Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain s Plywood
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 16, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for work.
            Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain's Plywood Clinker Boatbuilding Manual page 168...where he is explaining a leeboard...he states that it is more efficient than a centerboard. He does say it is a nuisance to tack, but it also eliminates the need for the centerboard case, and then he sort of cracks a bit of a joke at the fact that there is "AN IRRATIONAL PREJUDICE" of them.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Roger Padvorac
            Scott, I appreciate contributions here whenever its the right time in a person s life to make them. While I still have a bit of a prejudice against leeboards,
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 16, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Scott,
              I appreciate contributions here whenever its the right time in a person's life to make them.

              While I still have a bit of a prejudice against leeboards, for some time now the only boats I've considered all have leeboards - I'm really serious about small shallow draft boats, and a centerboard (with all of its failings) just doesn't fit into this scenario in a pragmatic way. My uncle was into the standard style sailing yachts, and so I have a lot of programing to undo.

              What helped shift my mental imagery about boats was seeing a number of paintings of Holland, all done hundreds of years ago by famous painters, and almost all of the boats had leeboards. They looked fairly similar to some of the boats Michalak and Bolger have designed with the differences caused by the fact plywood hadn't been invented at time.

              It wasn't just fringe boaters, it was a whole culture and economy dependant on boats with leeboards. Some of them were ships with huge leeboards.

              Part of it for me is that the Salish Sea, with its twisty shallow waterways and mudflats that dry out at low tide, has many similarities with Holland, and so those pictures didn't look that much different from home, except it being all sailing ships - and the big deal was almost all of the sailboats had leeboards.

              So I guess seeing those pictures helped normalize the concept of leeboards for me. While obviously they look more awkward and less sleek than deep keel boats, leeboards work great where you really need shallow draft boats that work well under many sea conditions - including low tide where nothing but mud is left behind, or worse yet, hidden mud bars with just a few inches of water over them. LOL

              I saw these pictures on Wikipedia, and I'm making a mental note to send the links to this group as soon as I see the pictures again.

              The only clue I have is that I think I was reading about traditional boat designs, and clicked on links to specific styles of Dutch boats. Whoever wrote the articles found online pictures of contemporary paintings showing those specific boat designs, and used them for the articles. A wild guess is maybe this was the 1700's, or something like that.

              Sincerely,
              Roger

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Scott Souder" <souderscott997@...>
              To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:31 PM
              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards


              > Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for work.
              > Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain's Plywood Clinker Boatbuilding Manual page 168...where he is explaining a leeboard...he states that it is more efficient than a centerboard. He does say it is a nuisance to tack, but it also eliminates the need for the centerboard case, and then he sort of cracks a bit of a joke at the fact that there is "AN IRRATIONAL PREJUDICE" of them.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • souderscott997
              I hope you are not thinking I was being critical of leeboards...I was comming from 180 degrees the opposite on that one.
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 16, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                I hope you are not thinking I was being critical of leeboards...I was comming from 180 degrees the opposite on that one.

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...> wrote:
                >
                > Scott,
                > I appreciate contributions here whenever its the right time in a person's life to make them.
                >
                > While I still have a bit of a prejudice against leeboards, for some time now the only boats I've considered all have leeboards - I'm really serious about small shallow draft boats, and a centerboard (with all of its failings) just doesn't fit into this scenario in a pragmatic way. My uncle was into the standard style sailing yachts, and so I have a lot of programing to undo.
                >
                > What helped shift my mental imagery about boats was seeing a number of paintings of Holland, all done hundreds of years ago by famous painters, and almost all of the boats had leeboards. They looked fairly similar to some of the boats Michalak and Bolger have designed with the differences caused by the fact plywood hadn't been invented at time.
                >
                > It wasn't just fringe boaters, it was a whole culture and economy dependant on boats with leeboards. Some of them were ships with huge leeboards.
                >
                > Part of it for me is that the Salish Sea, with its twisty shallow waterways and mudflats that dry out at low tide, has many similarities with Holland, and so those pictures didn't look that much different from home, except it being all sailing ships - and the big deal was almost all of the sailboats had leeboards.
                >
                > So I guess seeing those pictures helped normalize the concept of leeboards for me. While obviously they look more awkward and less sleek than deep keel boats, leeboards work great where you really need shallow draft boats that work well under many sea conditions - including low tide where nothing but mud is left behind, or worse yet, hidden mud bars with just a few inches of water over them. LOL
                >
                > I saw these pictures on Wikipedia, and I'm making a mental note to send the links to this group as soon as I see the pictures again.
                >
                > The only clue I have is that I think I was reading about traditional boat designs, and clicked on links to specific styles of Dutch boats. Whoever wrote the articles found online pictures of contemporary paintings showing those specific boat designs, and used them for the articles. A wild guess is maybe this was the 1700's, or something like that.
                >
                > Sincerely,
                > Roger
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Scott Souder" <souderscott997@...>
                > To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:31 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards
                >
                >
                > > Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for work.
                > > Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain's Plywood Clinker Boatbuilding Manual page 168...where he is explaining a leeboard...he states that it is more efficient than a centerboard. He does say it is a nuisance to tack, but it also eliminates the need for the centerboard case, and then he sort of cracks a bit of a joke at the fact that there is "AN IRRATIONAL PREJUDICE" of them.
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Tom Hart
                Many thanks, Scott. I d always assumed centreboards were more efficient than leeboards because of the hull providing an end-plate effect. Perhaps Iain s
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 17, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Many thanks, Scott. I'd always assumed centreboards were more efficient than leeboards because of the hull providing an end-plate effect. Perhaps Iain's referring to asymmetric leeboards as being more efficient. In which case, Jim's designs wouldn't count because he uses a (symmetrical) one for both tacks - for very good reasons.

                  Tom.

                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Scott Souder" <souderscott997@>
                  > > To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:31 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for work.
                  > > > Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain's Plywood Clinker Boatbuilding Manual page 168...where he is explaining a leeboard...he states that it is more efficient than a centerboard. He does say it is a nuisance to tack, but it also eliminates the need for the centerboard case, and then he sort of cracks a bit of a joke at the fact that there is "AN IRRATIONAL PREJUDICE" of them.
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • daniel brown
                  re the single leeboard vs two (possibly asymmetrical, canted, and even toed-in boards) that exploration has been done with open sailing canoes over the last
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 17, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    re the single leeboard vs two (possibly asymmetrical, canted, and even 'toed-in' boards) that exploration has been done with open sailing canoes over the last century. empirical evidence provided by aca and ocsg racing shows that most winning sailing canoes over the last 50+ years use a single symmetrical board. i started sailing canoes almost 50 years ago using a canted board on each side and there are some advantages especially if one likes sailing with considerable heel. maybe i will go back to two boards 'just for fun' but my sailing canoes are now equipped with one leeboard. i'm sure a michalak boat would sail just fine with a board on each side, but two are certainly not needed.



                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    From: tomhart92@...
                    Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:21:00 +0000
                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: Iain Oughtred on Leeboards






                    Many thanks, Scott. I'd always assumed centreboards were more efficient than leeboards because of the hull providing an end-plate effect. Perhaps Iain's referring to asymmetric leeboards as being more efficient. In which case, Jim's designs wouldn't count because he uses a (symmetrical) one for both tacks - for very good reasons.

                    Tom.

                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Scott Souder"
                    > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:31 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for work.
                    > > > Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain's Plywood Clinker Boatbuilding Manual page 168...where he is explaining a leeboard...he states that it is more efficient than a centerboard. He does say it is a nuisance to tack, but it also eliminates the need for the centerboard case, and then he sort of cracks a bit of a joke at the fact that there is "AN IRRATIONAL PREJUDICE" of them.
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • souderscott997
                    He does mention another detail I found interesting as far as the shape. In several if not most cases people give them the standard foil shape (both sides
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 17, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      He does mention another detail I found interesting as far as the shape. In several if not most cases people give them the standard foil shape (both sides sanded and shaped). He states that it is important to leave the outer edge completely flat and only sand and shape the inside in the "aerofoil" shape to "give some lift". I had just never heard it explained like that and found that detail interesting. Is that a critical detail???

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hart" <tomhart92@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Many thanks, Scott. I'd always assumed centreboards were more efficient than leeboards because of the hull providing an end-plate effect. Perhaps Iain's referring to asymmetric leeboards as being more efficient. In which case, Jim's designs wouldn't count because he uses a (symmetrical) one for both tacks - for very good reasons.
                      >
                      > Tom.
                      >
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: "Scott Souder" <souderscott997@>
                      > > > To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:31 PM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for work.
                      > > > > Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain's Plywood Clinker Boatbuilding Manual page 168...where he is explaining a leeboard...he states that it is more efficient than a centerboard. He does say it is a nuisance to tack, but it also eliminates the need for the centerboard case, and then he sort of cracks a bit of a joke at the fact that there is "AN IRRATIONAL PREJUDICE" of them.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Roger Padvorac
                      Scott, I m sorry for any confusion my message might have caused. I was responding to your enthusiasm for leeboards with some of my story about working to
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 17, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Scott,
                        I'm sorry for any confusion my message might have caused. I was responding to your enthusiasm for leeboards with some of my story about working to reconcile the logical conclusion that for shallow draft boats leeboards are a great choice, with the emotional bias I have against them that was programmed into me as a kid.

                        I really appreciate your bringing up all this positive information about leeboards.

                        The more you bring up facts about how well leeboards work, and the more people talk about using them and why they like them, then the more my bias against them slowly fades away.

                        Its a real pain being logically convinced leeboards are a good deal, and having to listen to this garbage in the back of my mind saying "awww, but I want a real sailboat without those ugly things on its sides". Its like having a family fight inside my own head.

                        You could say that as a kid I was programmed by the white fiberglass Bermuda-rigged sailboat cult and now I'm working on deprogramming myself. What better place could there be for me to do this, than in a Michalak boat community? LOL

                        Once, deep in my gut, I start feeling leeboards a normal and beautifully functional, then I'll probably be okay. Until then, I need to keep hearing lots of positive things about leeboards :)

                        Sincerely,
                        Roger

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "souderscott997" <souderscott997@...>
                        To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 9:20 PM
                        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Iain Oughtred on Leeboards


                        >I hope you are not thinking I was being critical of leeboards...I was comming from 180 degrees the opposite on that one.
                        >
                        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Scott,
                        >> I appreciate contributions here whenever its the right time in a person's life to make them.


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • souderscott997
                        I have some of the same things in my head trust me. I got rid of my Venture 21 and built a Wooboto and couldn t be more pleased. It may be a worse sickness
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 17, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I have some of the same things in my head trust me. I got rid of my Venture 21 and built a Wooboto and couldn't be more pleased. It may be a worse sickness than the others however since I am already agonizing over the next set of plans...lol Thank god I am lucky with the wife I have. She gave a good explanation of my boat tinkering once talking with a friend of hers and said "some husbands are addicted to drugs or alcohol, and some addicted to cheating, or riculous things like video games...mine is in the garage constantly messing with boats, I'd rather deal with that. Ahhh overhearing those words was like music to the soul.:) Then and there I knew she was the perfect one.
                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Scott,
                          > I'm sorry for any confusion my message might have caused. I was responding to your enthusiasm for leeboards with some of my story about working to reconcile the logical conclusion that for shallow draft boats leeboards are a great choice, with the emotional bias I have against them that was programmed into me as a kid.
                          >
                          > I really appreciate your bringing up all this positive information about leeboards.
                          >
                          > The more you bring up facts about how well leeboards work, and the more people talk about using them and why they like them, then the more my bias against them slowly fades away.
                          >
                          > Its a real pain being logically convinced leeboards are a good deal, and having to listen to this garbage in the back of my mind saying "awww, but I want a real sailboat without those ugly things on its sides". Its like having a family fight inside my own head.
                          >
                          > You could say that as a kid I was programmed by the white fiberglass Bermuda-rigged sailboat cult and now I'm working on deprogramming myself. What better place could there be for me to do this, than in a Michalak boat community? LOL
                          >
                          > Once, deep in my gut, I start feeling leeboards a normal and beautifully functional, then I'll probably be okay. Until then, I need to keep hearing lots of positive things about leeboards :)
                          >
                          > Sincerely,
                          > Roger
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "souderscott997" <souderscott997@...>
                          > To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 9:20 PM
                          > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Iain Oughtred on Leeboards
                          >
                          >
                          > >I hope you are not thinking I was being critical of leeboards...I was comming from 180 degrees the opposite on that one.
                          > >
                          > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Padvorac" <roger@> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >> Scott,
                          > >> I appreciate contributions here whenever its the right time in a person's life to make them.
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Tom Hart
                          Thanks, Scott. Yes, he s describing the making of an asymmetric leeboard - and is saying they are more efficient than a symmetrical centreboard. However,
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 18, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks, Scott. Yes, he's describing the making of an asymmetric leeboard - and is saying they are more efficient than a symmetrical centreboard.

                            However, Daniel Brown has cited the experience from open sailing canoes that most winning canoes use a single symmetrical board - a pretty definitive finding in favour of Jim's preferred configuration!

                            Daniel, do the sailing canoe designers/sailors have any theories as to why asymmetric boards don't give a superior performance?

                            Tom.

                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "souderscott997" <souderscott997@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > He does mention another detail I found interesting as far as the shape. In several if not most cases people give them the standard foil shape (both sides sanded and shaped). He states that it is important to leave the outer edge completely flat and only sand and shape the inside in the "aerofoil" shape to "give some lift". I had just never heard it explained like that and found that detail interesting. Is that a critical detail???
                            >
                            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hart" <tomhart92@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Many thanks, Scott. I'd always assumed centreboards were more efficient than leeboards because of the hull providing an end-plate effect. Perhaps Iain's referring to asymmetric leeboards as being more efficient. In which case, Jim's designs wouldn't count because he uses a (symmetrical) one for both tacks - for very good reasons.
                            > >
                            > > Tom.
                            > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > > From: "Scott Souder" <souderscott997@>
                            > > > > To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:31 PM
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Iain Oughtred on Leeboards
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for work.
                            > > > > > Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain's Plywood Clinker Boatbuilding Manual page 168...where he is explaining a leeboard...he states that it is more efficient than a centerboard. He does say it is a nuisance to tack, but it also eliminates the need for the centerboard case, and then he sort of cracks a bit of a joke at the fact that there is "AN IRRATIONAL PREJUDICE" of them.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • John Boy
                            Scott wrote, It may be a worse sickness than the others however since I am already agonizing over the next set of plans...lol I wonder if there is a 12 step
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 18, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Scott wrote, "It may be a worse sickness than the others however since I am already agonizing over the next set of plans...lol"


                              I wonder if there is a 12 step group for this.

                              Hi, my name is John Boy and I'm a serial boat builder.  I have five boats, all is various states of maintenance, and I'm waiting for my tax refund to go buy a stack of plywood for my next boat.

                              I love the smell of saw dust in the morning!
                               


                              I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                              “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                              Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island


                              ________________________________

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Scott Souder
                              Nice to know there are plenty of others with the same problems.:) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 18, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Nice to know there are plenty of others with the same problems.:)

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Chris Parker
                                Do a google search for boeier and botter for starters. Not enough fun? Try these types: blazer enkhuizer bol fries jacht grundel hengst hoogaars
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 20, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Do a google search for "boeier" and "botter" for starters. Not enough fun?
                                  Try these types:

                                  blazer
                                  enkhuizer bol
                                  fries jacht
                                  grundel
                                  hengst
                                  hoogaars
                                  Kajuitschouw
                                  lemsteraak
                                  pluut
                                  punter
                                  schokker
                                  schouw
                                  skutsje
                                  staversejol
                                  tjalk
                                  tjotter
                                  vollenhovense bol
                                  wieringer bol
                                  wieringeraak
                                  zalmschouw
                                  zeeschouw
                                  zeeuwse schouw

                                  I'm sure the hull forms are very different, but Jim's
                                  Wooboto<http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/wooboto/Untitled-6.jpg>always
                                  makes me think of
                                  botters <http://tugster.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/ase333.jpg>.

                                  - Chris

                                  On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Scott Souder <souderscott997@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Sorry for being so slow to respond. I am currently gone Mon-Friday for
                                  work.
                                  > Anyways to summarize the statement I referred to it comes from Iain's
                                  Plywood Clinker Boatbuilding Manual page 168...where he is explaining a
                                  leeboard...he states that it is more efficient than a centerboard. He does
                                  say it is a nuisance to tack, but it also eliminates the need for the
                                  centerboard case, and then he sort of cracks a bit of a joke at the fact
                                  that there is "AN IRRATIONAL PREJUDICE" of them.
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >




                                  --
                                  Chris Parker
                                  Center for Teaching and Learning
                                  Office of the Vice Provost for Faculty and Academic Affairs
                                  University Office Plaza, Suite 400
                                  2221 University Ave. S.E.
                                  Minneapolis, MN 55414
                                  612-625-2382
                                  https://www.facebook.com/UMinnCTL?fref=ts


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • prairiedog2332
                                  Great photo. Some more photos here: http://www.heechbydemar.com/sale/list-of-sales Nels --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Chris Parker
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 20, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Great photo. Some more photos here:

                                    http://www.heechbydemar.com/sale/list-of-sales

                                    Nels
                                    <br>--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Chris Parker <parke120@...>
                                    wrote:<br>><br>> Do a google search for
                                    "boeier" and "botter" for starters. Not enough fun?<br>> Try these
                                    types:


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • billnolen66
                                    Nels, I want this one! _http://www.heechbydemar.com/sale/list-of-sales/27561/zeeschouw-zilte-hinde/ _
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 20, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Nels, I want this one!

                                      _http://www.heechbydemar.com/sale/list-of-sales/27561/zeeschouw-zilte-hinde/
                                      _
                                      (http://www.heechbydemar.com/sale/list-of-sales/27561/zeeschouw-zilte-hinde/)

                                      Bill Nolen
                                      OKC


                                      In a message dated 2/20/2013 4:31:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                                      nelsarv@... writes:




                                      Great photo. Some more photos here:

                                      _http://www.heechbydemar.com/sale/list-of-sales_
                                      (http://www.heechbydemar.com/sale/list-of-sales)

                                      Nels

                                      --- In _Michalak@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com) ,
                                      Chris Parker
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Do a google search for
                                      "boeier" and "botter" for starters. Not enough fun?
                                      > Try these
                                      types:

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • prairiedog2332
                                      Sweet! I translated some of it. The hull is steel. But did not quite completely understand this comment? The sails are made of thick dacron. The mast is easy
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Feb 20, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Sweet! I translated some of it. The hull is steel. But did not quite
                                        completely understand this comment?
                                        "The sails are made of thick dacron. The mast is easy to iron using the
                                        drizzle."


                                        Nels:-)

                                        <br>--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, BGN5731@... wrote:<br>><br>> Nels,
                                        I want this one!


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.