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Re: Picara Main Sail

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  • prairiedog2332
    I should mention that the gaff rig is still considered one of the best upwind rigs in a low COE sail rig design . It does require several added strings though
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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      I should mention that the gaff rig is still considered one of the best
      upwind rigs in a low COE sail rig design .

      It does require several added strings though over the leg o' mutton with
      sprit boom that Bolger likes. It requires a boom vang for one thing
      whereas the lego is self vanging. And also a peak halyard on the gaff in
      addition to the main halyard. Then a topping lift so the boom stays up
      when reefing. And generally more reef points. The first reef in a lego
      is to tighten the snotter to flatten the sail. Then if you add lazy
      jacks...

      A lego does lead to sail chaffing if sailed on a long beat with the boom
      against the sail and is not as easy to reef which is a reason Bolger
      likes to add a mizzen so one can head into the wind and tie in a reef at
      leisure. It also requires the sail to be on a track to do so, so to
      lower the sail without interference from the snotter assembly. A gaffer
      can be rigged with only a few mast ties. And the mast can be short and
      stout. A far superior rig for the long haul.

      Nels

      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" wrote:
      >
      > There are several factors involved with the choice of a main sail
      design




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • daniel brown
      dont forget the lateen, maybe my favorite for small boat rigs. i d pick a lateen (like a sunfish rig) over any similar sized gaff or lug for performance. it
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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        dont forget the lateen, maybe my favorite for small boat rigs. i'd pick a lateen (like a sunfish rig) over any similar sized gaff or lug for performance. it has a straight luff spar for upwind performance, short mast, easy hoist and striking, low aspect, and plenty of downwind power. the big 'boo' is gybing, but i've never capsized because of an uncontrolled gybe. maybe scary but not risky if you are paying attention. i notice that many potter sailors convert their rigs to sunfish.




        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        From: nelsarv@...
        Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 17:24:51 +0000
        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail





        There are several factors involved with the choice of a main sail design
        and I am quite certain Jim has chosen the best compromise in his mind
        and mine as well. If interested in sail design there are two books that
        are invaluable. One is Bolger's "103 Small Boat Rigs," It goes into the
        science of sail rigs in an easy to understand way. Unfortunately it
        seems to be out of print. The other is this one available from DW. Does
        not got into as much detail though.

        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/media/books/tradsails/index.htm

        With Picara - which is much like the Long Micro he has chosen the gaff
        rig over the leg o' mutton with sprit boom as it has a much shorter
        mast. The mast on LM is about 25 ft. and requires exact tapering and is
        much more complicated to build.

        With a sprit rig of this area the problem is - according to Bolger -
        having a sprit this long and having it stiff enough without too much
        weight aloft to maintain a tight luff on head of the sail and not be too
        heavy to manage. It also requires very high snotter tension or the peak
        will sag and loose it's shape and windward ability.

        Another problem is reefing. To quote Bolger "A spritsail is best used in
        boats too small to need reefing". Also used without a boom it has a very
        narrow sheeting angle and does not do well when sailing off the wind. If
        you add a sprit boom then you have another snotter to deal with.

        An option to consider is the Solent rig. It is like the LM rig only with
        a shorter mast and a yard right up against it that runs up and down to
        extend the height of the sail. To reef you just ease the halyard and
        slide the yard down. Dave explains it at some length in his book. Bob
        Larkin had one in his BW2 build but gave up on it as he found the yard
        hard to handle when the winds got high and he had to reef.

        http://www.proaxis.com/~boblark/bw2_sails2.htm

        So I keep coming back the rig as designed with the optional addition of
        battens and lazy jacks to make faster reefing from the cockpit. Not a
        necessity if going with the full ballast recommendations.

        Nels

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "sharpie3444" wrote:
        >
        > Nels, whay do you think of a sprit to hold the peak of Picara s main
        sail up. I may give that a try?
        >
        > David Davis
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andres Espino
        My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that rig.  It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast.  I added full battens and
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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          My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that rig.  It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast.  I added full battens and lazyjacks to mine, and it was a cinch to reef with one line.

          My gaffer had one halyard to the top spar, a boom vang and a sheet thats it until I added the lazyjacks with 1 more line.  I did not add the sheetlets to the ends of my battens... if I had it would have almost been Bolgers Chinese Gaff sail.  I think his version has way too many likes.. my main objection to Junk Rigs.
          http://thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Bolger%20Gaffer


          Andrew


          ________________________________
          From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 10:59 AM
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


           
          I should mention that the gaff rig is still considered one of the best
          upwind rigs in a low COE sail rig design .

          It does require several added strings though over the leg o' mutton with
          sprit boom that Bolger likes. It requires a boom vang for one thing
          whereas the lego is self vanging. And also a peak halyard on the gaff in
          addition to the main halyard. Then a topping lift so the boom stays up
          when reefing. And generally more reef points. The first reef in a lego
          is to tighten the snotter to flatten the sail. Then if you add lazy
          jacks...

          A lego does lead to sail chaffing if sailed on a long beat with the boom
          against the sail and is not as easy to reef which is a reason Bolger
          likes to add a mizzen so one can head into the wind and tie in a reef at
          leisure. It also requires the sail to be on a track to do so, so to
          lower the sail without interference from the snotter assembly. A gaffer
          can be rigged with only a few mast ties. And the mast can be short and
          stout. A far superior rig for the long haul.

          Nels

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" wrote:
          >
          > There are several factors involved with the choice of a main sail
          design

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • prairiedog2332
          Danny, I absolutely love the lateen as I started off sailing a Sunfish and found a small sloop rigged skiff not so much. I am building a couple of Bolger
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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            Danny,
            I absolutely love the lateen as I started off sailing a Sunfish and
            found a small sloop rigged skiff not so much.

            I am building a couple of Bolger Tortoises for my grand girls and plan
            to make polytarp sails with simple sleeves on them.

            http://www.instantboats.com/tortoise.htm


            Also have the plans for Tween which Jim mentions is a lot easier to set
            up than a gaff sail. More complicated than the Tortoise to build but I
            bet a real interesting boat to sail. Love the warped bow vee idea on a
            flat bottomed design for less pounding in a chop and planing potential.
            Ordered Twister plans as well for that reason.

            http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/tween/index.htm

            http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/twister/index.htm

            I think Twister should semi-plane under power as well.


            But again - a lateener not easy or simple to reef in a larger area - and
            the Picara mast location won't work well with a balanced type sail plan
            which a lateen is, with some of it's area ahead of the mast. And that
            mast location is pretty much set.

            So any options involve the mast location on Picara in my view.

            Nels

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, daniel brown wrote:
            >
            >
            > dont forget the lateen, maybe my favorite for small boat rigs. i'd
            pick a lateen (like a sunfish rig) over any similar sized gaff or lug
            for performance. it has a straight luff spar for upwind performance,
            short mast, easy hoist and striking, low aspect, and plenty of downwind
            power. the big 'boo' is gybing, but i've never capsized because of an
            uncontrolled gybe. maybe scary but not risky if you are paying
            attention. i notice that many potter sailors convert their rigs to
            sunfish.




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • prairiedog2332
            One problem I have heard with the Bolger Chinese gaff rig is that each batten requires a set of jaws and they can be prone to jamming when reefing. Not so
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 8, 2013
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              One problem I "have heard" with the Bolger Chinese gaff rig is that each
              batten requires a set of jaws and they can be prone to jamming when
              reefing. Not so much in the Micro version though which has a much
              smaller sail area.

              The sheetlets are meant to prevent sail twist so can't help but think
              only the top most one might be all that is required on the Navigator
              shown at your link?

              So you did not have a peak halyard on your gaff? I think it helps to
              prevent gaff sag and twist as well. One like this with a "gaff span"
              seems to make a lot of sense to me.

              http://www.capecutter19.com/Running_Rigging_Diagram.gif


              Nels


              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino wrote:
              >
              > My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that
              rig. It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast. I
              added full battens and lazyjacks to mine, and it was a cinch to reef
              with one line.
              >
              > My gaffer had one halyard to the top spar, a boom vang and a sheet
              thats it until I added the lazyjacks with 1 more line. I did not
              add the sheetlets to the ends of my battens... if I had it would have
              almost been Bolgers Chinese Gaff sail. I think his version has way
              too many likes.. my main objection to Junk Rigs.
              > http://thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Bolger%20Gaffer
              >
              >
              > Andrew
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Andres Espino
              my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next to the mast. To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail track
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 9, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next to the mast.

                To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail track slug.  The batten was a wood strip on both sides and a screw through the sandwich.  I scarphed 1x2 strips (really 3/4 x 1 1/2 I think) to get a piece long enough with no flaws.

                I did not see this article at the time but this duckworks article makes battens like i did.
                http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm

                The battens made my sail fall into the lazyjacks better without help than sail alone

                Andrew





                ________________________________
                From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 12:43 PM
                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                 
                One problem I "have heard" with the Bolger Chinese gaff rig is that each
                batten requires a set of jaws and they can be prone to jamming when
                reefing. Not so much in the Micro version though which has a much
                smaller sail area.

                The sheetlets are meant to prevent sail twist so can't help but think
                only the top most one might be all that is required on the Navigator
                shown at your link?

                So you did not have a peak halyard on your gaff? I think it helps to
                prevent gaff sag and twist as well. One like this with a "gaff span"
                seems to make a lot of sense to me.

                http://www.capecutter19.com/Running_Rigging_Diagram.gif

                Nels

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino wrote:
                >
                > My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that
                rig. It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast. I
                added full battens and lazyjacks to mine, and it was a cinch to reef
                with one line.
                >
                > My gaffer had one halyard to the top spar, a boom vang and a sheet
                thats it until I added the lazyjacks with 1 more line. I did not
                add the sheetlets to the ends of my battens... if I had it would have
                almost been Bolgers Chinese Gaff sail. I think his version has way
                too many likes.. my main objection to Junk Rigs.
                > http://thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Bolger%20Gaffer
                >
                >
                > Andrew
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andres Espino
                this is a drawing of the gaff sail on my Glen-L sharpie and shows the halyard attachment.. a bet aft of the center as I had remembered it.
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 9, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  this is a drawing of the gaff sail on my Glen-L sharpie and shows the halyard attachment.. a bet aft of the center as I had remembered it.
                  http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-ffrla.gif

                  Andrew




                  ________________________________
                  From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                  To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:41 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                   
                  my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next to the mast.

                  To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail track slug.  The batten was a wood strip on both sides and a screw through the sandwich.  I scarphed 1x2 strips (really 3/4 x 1 1/2 I think) to get a piece long enough with no flaws.

                  I did not see this article at the time but this duckworks article makes battens like i did.
                  http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm

                  The battens made my sail fall into the lazyjacks better without help than sail alone

                  Andrew

                  ________________________________
                  From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...>
                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 12:43 PM
                  Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                   
                  One problem I "have heard" with the Bolger Chinese gaff rig is that each
                  batten requires a set of jaws and they can be prone to jamming when
                  reefing. Not so much in the Micro version though which has a much
                  smaller sail area.

                  The sheetlets are meant to prevent sail twist so can't help but think
                  only the top most one might be all that is required on the Navigator
                  shown at your link?

                  So you did not have a peak halyard on your gaff? I think it helps to
                  prevent gaff sag and twist as well. One like this with a "gaff span"
                  seems to make a lot of sense to me.

                  http://www.capecutter19.com/Running_Rigging_Diagram.gif

                  Nels

                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino wrote:
                  >
                  > My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that
                  rig. It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast. I
                  added full battens and lazyjacks to mine, and it was a cinch to reef
                  with one line.
                  >
                  > My gaffer had one halyard to the top spar, a boom vang and a sheet
                  thats it until I added the lazyjacks with 1 more line. I did not
                  add the sheetlets to the ends of my battens... if I had it would have
                  almost been Bolgers Chinese Gaff sail. I think his version has way
                  too many likes.. my main objection to Junk Rigs.
                  > http://thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Bolger%20Gaffer
                  >
                  >
                  > Andrew
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John Boy
                  Which one did you have Andrew?   I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/ “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It s the glory of the sea that has turned
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 9, 2013
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                    Which one did you have Andrew?

                     


                    I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                    “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                    Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island


                    ________________________________
                    From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                    To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:52 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                     
                    this is a drawing of the gaff sail on my Glen-L sharpie and shows the halyard attachment.. a bet aft of the center as I had remembered it.
                    http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-ffrla.gif

                    Andrew

                    ________________________________
                    From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                    To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:41 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                     
                    my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next to the mast.

                    To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail track slug.  The batten was a wood strip on both sides and a screw through the sandwich.  I scarphed 1x2 strips (really 3/4 x 1 1/2 I think) to get a piece long enough with no flaws.

                    I did not see this article at the time but this duckworks article makes battens like i did.
                    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm

                    The battens made my sail fall into the lazyjacks better without help than sail alone

                    Andrew

                    ________________________________
                    From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...>
                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 12:43 PM
                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                     
                    One problem I "have heard" with the Bolger Chinese gaff rig is that each
                    batten requires a set of jaws and they can be prone to jamming when
                    reefing. Not so much in the Micro version though which has a much
                    smaller sail area.

                    The sheetlets are meant to prevent sail twist so can't help but think
                    only the top most one might be all that is required on the Navigator
                    shown at your link?

                    So you did not have a peak halyard on your gaff? I think it helps to
                    prevent gaff sag and twist as well. One like this with a "gaff span"
                    seems to make a lot of sense to me.

                    http://www.capecutter19.com/Running_Rigging_Diagram.gif

                    Nels

                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino wrote:
                    >
                    > My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that
                    rig. It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast. I
                    added full battens and lazyjacks to mine, and it was a cinch to reef
                    with one line.
                    >
                    > My gaffer had one halyard to the top spar, a boom vang and a sheet
                    thats it until I added the lazyjacks with 1 more line. I did not
                    add the sheetlets to the ends of my battens... if I had it would have
                    almost been Bolgers Chinese Gaff sail. I think his version has way
                    too many likes.. my main objection to Junk Rigs.
                    > http://thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Bolger%20Gaffer
                    >
                    >
                    > Andrew
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • prairiedog2332
                    Maybe I could answer for Andrew. Pretty sure it was Fancy Free. https://www.boatdesigns.com/21-Fancy-Free-gaff-rigged-sharpie/products/4 36/ That is an
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 10, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Maybe I could answer for Andrew. Pretty sure it was Fancy Free.

                      https://www.boatdesigns.com/21-Fancy-Free-gaff-rigged-sharpie/products/4\
                      36/

                      That is an interesting link as it shows the costs of all the mast
                      hardware and rigging kit that is required for a gaff sloop like this.
                      And yet it doesn't seem to include a throat halyard or boom vang which I
                      thought were pretty important and only what looks like a one-part main
                      sheet with a boom that long?

                      Nels

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, John Boy wrote:
                      >
                      > Which one did you have Andrew?
                      >
                      > Â
                      >
                      >
                      > I have a blog! Â http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
                      >
                      > “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that
                      has turned my head.”Â
                      >
                      > Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Andres Espino
                      > To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com"
                      > Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:52 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail
                      >
                      >
                      > Â
                      > this is a drawing of the gaff sail on my Glen-L sharpie and shows the
                      halyard attachment.. a bet aft of the center as I had remembered it.
                      > http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-ffrla.gif
                      >
                      > Andrew
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...
                      > To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:41 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail
                      >
                      >
                      > Â
                      > my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next
                      to the mast.
                      >
                      > To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail
                      track slug. The batten was a wood strip on both sides and a screw
                      through the sandwich. I scarphed 1x2 strips (really 3/4 x 1 1/2 I
                      think) to get a piece long enough with no flaws.
                      >
                      > I did not see this article at the time but this duckworks article
                      makes battens like i did.
                      > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm
                      >
                      > The battens made my sail fall into the lazyjacks better without help
                      than sail alone
                      >
                      > Andrew
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Andres Espino
                      you must mean which boat..  I had the 21ft Fancy Free which was stretched in my case by the builder to 26 feet against Glen-L recommendations.. but he was an
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 10, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        you must mean which boat..  I had the 21ft Fancy Free which was stretched in my case by the builder to 26 feet against Glen-L recommendations.. but he was an experienced builder.

                        Andrew




                        ________________________________
                        From: John Boy <t1ro2003@...>
                        To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:02 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                         
                        Which one did you have Andrew?

                         

                        I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                        “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                        Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island

                        ________________________________
                        From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                        To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:52 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                         
                        this is a drawing of the gaff sail on my Glen-L sharpie and shows the halyard attachment.. a bet aft of the center as I had remembered it.
                        http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-ffrla.gif

                        Andrew

                        ________________________________
                        From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                        To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.comMichalak@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:41 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                         
                        my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next to the mast.

                        To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail track slug.  The batten was a wood strip on both sides and a screw through the sandwich.  I scarphed 1x2 strips (really 3/4 x 1 1/2 I think) to get a piece long enough with no flaws.

                        I did not see this article at the time but this duckworks article makes battens like i did.
                        http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm

                        The battens made my sail fall into the lazyjacks better without help than sail alone

                        Andrew

                        ________________________________
                        From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...>
                        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 12:43 PM
                        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                         
                        One problem I "have heard" with the Bolger Chinese gaff rig is that each
                        batten requires a set of jaws and they can be prone to jamming when
                        reefing. Not so much in the Micro version though which has a much
                        smaller sail area.

                        The sheetlets are meant to prevent sail twist so can't help but think
                        only the top most one might be all that is required on the Navigator
                        shown at your link?

                        So you did not have a peak halyard on your gaff? I think it helps to
                        prevent gaff sag and twist as well. One like this with a "gaff span"
                        seems to make a lot of sense to me.

                        http://www.capecutter19.com/Running_Rigging_Diagram.gif

                        Nels

                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino wrote:
                        >
                        > My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that
                        rig. It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast. I
                        added full battens and lazyjacks to mine, and it was a cinch to reef
                        with one line.
                        >
                        > My gaffer had one halyard to the top spar, a boom vang and a sheet
                        thats it until I added the lazyjacks with 1 more line. I did not
                        add the sheetlets to the ends of my battens... if I had it would have
                        almost been Bolgers Chinese Gaff sail. I think his version has way
                        too many likes.. my main objection to Junk Rigs.
                        > http://thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Bolger%20Gaffer
                        >
                        >
                        > Andrew
                        >

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                      • Andres Espino
                        Ha Ha yes you were right!  I already posted it.. tho my boat was modified a lot from the plans but the sail and rigging were kept the same Andrew
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 10, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Ha Ha yes you were right!  I already posted it.. tho my boat was modified a lot from the plans but the sail and rigging were kept the same

                          Andrew




                          ________________________________
                          From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
                          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:00 AM
                          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                           
                          Maybe I could answer for Andrew. Pretty sure it was Fancy Free.

                          https://www.boatdesigns.com/21-Fancy-Free-gaff-rigged-sharpie/products/4\
                          36/

                          That is an interesting link as it shows the costs of all the mast
                          hardware and rigging kit that is required for a gaff sloop like this.
                          And yet it doesn't seem to include a throat halyard or boom vang which I
                          thought were pretty important and only what looks like a one-part main
                          sheet with a boom that long?

                          Nels

                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, John Boy wrote:
                          >
                          > Which one did you have Andrew?
                          >
                          > Â
                          >
                          >
                          > I have a blog! Â http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
                          >
                          > “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that
                          has turned my head.â€�Â
                          >
                          > Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Andres Espino
                          > To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com"
                          > Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:52 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail
                          >
                          >
                          > Â
                          > this is a drawing of the gaff sail on my Glen-L sharpie and shows the
                          halyard attachment.. a bet aft of the center as I had remembered it.
                          > http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-ffrla.gif
                          >
                          > Andrew
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...
                          > To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.comMichalak@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:41 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail
                          >
                          >
                          > Â
                          > my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next
                          to the mast.
                          >
                          > To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail
                          track slug. The batten was a wood strip on both sides and a screw
                          through the sandwich. I scarphed 1x2 strips (really 3/4 x 1 1/2 I
                          think) to get a piece long enough with no flaws.
                          >
                          > I did not see this article at the time but this duckworks article
                          makes battens like i did.
                          > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm
                          >
                          > The battens made my sail fall into the lazyjacks better without help
                          than sail alone
                          >
                          > Andrew
                          >

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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • John Boy
                          Interesting idea.  An extra five feet would make her a whole new class of boat.  Do you know how how he did it? Thanks, John Boy   I have a blog!
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 10, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Interesting idea.  An extra five feet would make her a whole new class of boat.  Do you know how how he did it?
                            Thanks,
                            John Boy
                             


                            I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                            “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                            Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island


                            ________________________________
                            From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                            To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 11:04 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                             
                            you must mean which boat..  I had the 21ft Fancy Free which was stretched in my case by the builder to 26 feet against Glen-L recommendations.. but he was an experienced builder.

                            Andrew

                            ________________________________
                            From: John Boy t1ro2003@...>
                            To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:02 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                             
                            Which one did you have Andrew?

                             

                            I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                            “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                            Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island

                            ________________________________
                            From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                            To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.comMichalak@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:52 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                             
                            this is a drawing of the gaff sail on my Glen-L sharpie and shows the halyard attachment.. a bet aft of the center as I had remembered it.
                            http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-ffrla.gif

                            Andrew

                            ________________________________
                            From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                            To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.comMichalak@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:41 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                             
                            my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next to the mast.

                            To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail track slug.  The batten was a wood strip on both sides and a screw through the sandwich.  I scarphed 1x2 strips (really 3/4 x 1 1/2 I think) to get a piece long enough with no flaws.

                            I did not see this article at the time but this duckworks article makes battens like i did.
                            http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm

                            The battens made my sail fall into the lazyjacks better without help than sail alone

                            Andrew

                            ________________________________
                            From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...>
                            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 12:43 PM
                            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                             
                            One problem I "have heard" with the Bolger Chinese gaff rig is that each
                            batten requires a set of jaws and they can be prone to jamming when
                            reefing. Not so much in the Micro version though which has a much
                            smaller sail area.

                            The sheetlets are meant to prevent sail twist so can't help but think
                            only the top most one might be all that is required on the Navigator
                            shown at your link?

                            So you did not have a peak halyard on your gaff? I think it helps to
                            prevent gaff sag and twist as well. One like this with a "gaff span"
                            seems to make a lot of sense to me.

                            http://www.capecutter19.com/Running_Rigging_Diagram.gif

                            Nels

                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino wrote:
                            >
                            > My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that
                            rig. It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast. I
                            added full battens and lazyjacks to mine, and it was a cinch to reef
                            with one line.
                            >
                            > My gaffer had one halyard to the top spar, a boom vang and a sheet
                            thats it until I added the lazyjacks with 1 more line. I did not
                            add the sheetlets to the ends of my battens... if I had it would have
                            almost been Bolgers Chinese Gaff sail. I think his version has way
                            too many likes.. my main objection to Junk Rigs.
                            > http://thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Bolger%20Gaffer
                            >
                            >
                            > Andrew
                            >

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                          • Andres Espino
                            Yes and I completed the boat.  He was elderly and an experienced boatbuilder and master cabinetmaker he had to give up the project for health reasons. Back
                            Message 13 of 14 , Feb 10, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yes and I completed the boat.  He was elderly and an experienced boatbuilder and master cabinetmaker he had to give up the project for health reasons.

                              Back when he built it there was not a larger Glen-L sharpie.. now Glen-L has the 27ft Chessie Flyer.  He stretched it to a 26 footer.

                              Glen-L says not to stretch their designs more than 10% because most home builders simply move the stations farther apart.  This fellow designed stations which he inserted and then refaired the hull.  He moved the CB trunk aft to the new Center of Gravity and increased the ballast to compensate for the added wood and open volume.  He left the beam the same.  The resulting boat was 4/1 instead of 3/1 and she sailed straight as an arrow.  These are also the dimensions of a Folkboat.  That added space allowed him to put a head and hanging locker just aft of the vee bunks.

                              I bought it with the bare outer hull completed and finished the interior and the rigging.  The keel is heavy plate and had to be winched up but when up it could go up rivers and was beachable.  I have kicked myself daily for selling her.

                              Andrew




                              ________________________________
                              From: John Boy <t1ro2003@...>
                              To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:33 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                               
                              Interesting idea.  An extra five feet would make her a whole new class of boat.  Do you know how how he did it?
                              Thanks,
                              John Boy
                               

                              I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                              “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                              Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island

                              ________________________________
                              From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                              To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 11:04 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail


                               
                              you must mean which boat..  I had the 21ft Fancy Free which was stretched in my case by the builder to 26 feet against Glen-L recommendations.. but he was an experienced builder.

                              Andrew

                              ________________________________
                              From: John Boy t1ro2003@...>
                              To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.comMichalak@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:02 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                               
                              Which one did you have Andrew?

                               

                              I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                              “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                              Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island

                              ________________________________
                              From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                              To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.comMichalak@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 8:52 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                               
                              this is a drawing of the gaff sail on my Glen-L sharpie and shows the halyard attachment.. a bet aft of the center as I had remembered it.
                              http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/sailboat-images/dsn-ffrla.gif

                              Andrew

                              ________________________________
                              From: Andres Espino ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                              To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.comMichalak@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 7:41 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                               
                              my halyard attached to an eye in the middle of my upper spar not next to the mast.

                              To add full battens to my gaff sail I placed the batten next to a sail track slug.  The batten was a wood strip on both sides and a screw through the sandwich.  I scarphed 1x2 strips (really 3/4 x 1 1/2 I think) to get a piece long enough with no flaws.

                              I did not see this article at the time but this duckworks article makes battens like i did.
                              http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/howto/junkrig/index.htm

                              The battens made my sail fall into the lazyjacks better without help than sail alone

                              Andrew

                              ________________________________
                              From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...>
                              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 12:43 PM
                              Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara Main Sail

                               
                              One problem I "have heard" with the Bolger Chinese gaff rig is that each
                              batten requires a set of jaws and they can be prone to jamming when
                              reefing. Not so much in the Micro version though which has a much
                              smaller sail area.

                              The sheetlets are meant to prevent sail twist so can't help but think
                              only the top most one might be all that is required on the Navigator
                              shown at your link?

                              So you did not have a peak halyard on your gaff? I think it helps to
                              prevent gaff sag and twist as well. One like this with a "gaff span"
                              seems to make a lot of sense to me.

                              http://www.capecutter19.com/Running_Rigging_Diagram.gif

                              Nels

                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino wrote:
                              >
                              > My last 26 foot sharpie was a Gaff Rig and I came to really like that
                              rig. It was broad and carried a lot of sail on a short mast. I
                              added full battens and lazyjacks to mine, and it was a cinch to reef
                              with one line.
                              >
                              > My gaffer had one halyard to the top spar, a boom vang and a sheet
                              thats it until I added the lazyjacks with 1 more line. I did not
                              add the sheetlets to the ends of my battens... if I had it would have
                              almost been Bolgers Chinese Gaff sail. I think his version has way
                              too many likes.. my main objection to Junk Rigs.
                              > http://thecheappages.com/junk/tutorial.html#Bolger%20Gaffer
                              >
                              >
                              > Andrew
                              >

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