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Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

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  • rvwburg@att.net
    building the picara.checking out different ballast ... From: Roger Padvorac To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 1,
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 1, 2013
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      building the picara.checking out different ballast

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...>
      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
      Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

       




      Robert,
      It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be most appropriate.

      Sincerely,
      Roger

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "robert" rvwburg@... >
      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
      Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
      Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • JeffreyM
      Michalak discusses this briefly at the bottom of his Picara entry in the Duckworks plans. To elaborate Jim s few words: the boat needs 500lb set as low as
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 2, 2013
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        Michalak discusses this briefly at the bottom of his Picara entry in the Duckworks plans. To elaborate Jim's few words: the boat needs 500lb set as low as possible (flat plates amidship); Water is much less dense than steel, so that the same mass of water wouldn't do the job, sine its center of gravity could not be so low in the hull. So the weight (and volume) of water ballast then has to be increased to compensate, and... the whole thing gets ridiculous very quickly.


        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, rvwburg@... wrote:
        >
        > building the picara.checking out different ballast
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Roger Padvorac"
        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Robert,
        > It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be most appropriate.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Roger
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "robert" rvwburg@... >
        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
        > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
        > Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Joseph Stromski
        I d suppose old car brake discs could be used for this. Maybe asking around at area brake shops would turn up a source for cheap ballast. joe
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 2, 2013
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          I'd suppose old car brake discs could be used for this. Maybe asking around at
          area brake shops would turn up a source for cheap ballast.
          joe





          ________________________________
          From: JeffreyM <JMichalsbr@...>
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, February 2, 2013 9:16:59 PM
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using
          water??????????


          Michalak discusses this briefly at the bottom of his Picara entry in the
          Duckworks plans. To elaborate Jim's few words: the boat needs 500lb set as low
          as possible (flat plates amidship); Water is much less dense than steel, so that
          the same mass of water wouldn't do the job, sine its center of gravity could not
          be so low in the hull. So the weight (and volume) of water ballast then has to
          be increased to compensate, and... the whole thing gets ridiculous very quickly.

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, rvwburg@... wrote:
          >
          > building the picara.checking out different ballast
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Roger Padvorac"
          > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using
          >water??????????
          >
          >
          > Â
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Robert,
          > It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting
          >ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it.
          >All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be
          >most appropriate.
          >
          >
          > Sincerely,
          > Roger
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "robert" rvwburg@... >
          > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
          > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
          > Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using
          >water??????????
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • JeffreyM
          Again, aim for low volume. The problem with round objects is they can t be arranged at maximum density. At the very least, the gaps between them represent a
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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            Again, aim for low volume. The problem with round objects is they can't be arranged at maximum density. At the very least, the gaps between them represent a lot of wasted boat space. We're talking 500lb, remember.

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Stromski wrote:
            >
            > I'd suppose old car brake discs could be used for this. Maybe asking around at
            > area brake shops would turn up a source for cheap ballast.
            > joe
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: JeffreyM
            > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sat, February 2, 2013 9:16:59 PM
            > Subject: [Michalak] Re: what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using
            > water??????????
            >
            >
            > Michalak discusses this briefly at the bottom of his Picara entry in the
            > Duckworks plans. To elaborate Jim's few words: the boat needs 500lb set as low
            > as possible (flat plates amidship); Water is much less dense than steel, so that
            > the same mass of water wouldn't do the job, sine its center of gravity could not
            > be so low in the hull. So the weight (and volume) of water ballast then has to
            > be increased to compensate, and... the whole thing gets ridiculous very quickly.
            >
            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, rvwburg@ wrote:
            > >
            > > building the picara.checking out different ballast
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Roger Padvorac"
            > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
            > > Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using
            > >water??????????
            > >
            > >
            > > Â
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Robert,
            > > It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting
            > >ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it.
            > >All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be
            > >most appropriate.
            > >
            > >
            > > Sincerely,
            > > Roger
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "robert" rvwburg@ >
            > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
            > > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
            > > Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using
            > >water??????????
            > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • sharpie3444
            I ve suggested wood! in the form of more layers of plywood on the bottom and maybe bilge pannels. 50 lbs per sheet of 1/2 inch plywood, 6 sheets = three extra
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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              I ve suggested wood! in the form of more layers of plywood on the bottom and maybe bilge pannels. 50 lbs per sheet of 1/2 inch plywood, 6 sheets = three extra inches of bottom plank, maybe only 1 1/2 inches extra draft at about $ 300 may = about 250 pounds of ballast, the rest might be concreate and rebar in the outside 2 ft of the utility room sole -- leave the center 2 feet clear as a walkway and standing place to cook, dress or whatever. Watertight "box" to pour the concreate in so it might be sealed in place.

              Also heavy wood framing below the waterline. Adds floating weight! seal it to prevent waterlogging

              Guess I need to make a model with wood ballast and see how well it might work. Not sure how to make the test valid --- same size boats, 1/4 inch bottom plank vs 1 inch bottom plank, weights off centerline required to capsize and degree of the angle required to cause the capsize, something like that? ideas?

              David
            • Grant
              I ve found railroad rails to be dense, heavy and cheap. They work great as spring weights on my mooring chain, and could be stacked closely in boat bottoms.
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 3, 2013
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                I've found railroad rails to be dense, heavy and cheap. They work great as "spring weights" on my mooring chain, and could be stacked closely in boat bottoms. In a recent trip to a recycling center, rails were the heaviest pieces I could find for minimum displacement -- and that's what you're looking for in ballast.
              • Martin Houston
                I have seen boats with a piece of rail bolted to the keel for ballast. ________________________________ From: Grant To:
                Message 7 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
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                  I have seen boats with a piece of rail bolted to the keel for ballast.



                  ________________________________
                  From: Grant <grant@...>
                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 6:06 PM
                  Subject: [Michalak] Re: what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                   

                  I've found railroad rails to be dense, heavy and cheap. They work great as "spring weights" on my mooring chain, and could be stacked closely in boat bottoms. In a recent trip to a recycling center, rails were the heaviest pieces I could find for minimum displacement -- and that's what you're looking for in ballast.




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Andres Espino
                  Gilbert used a piece of I-Beam as a keel for his sharpie SKIPPY for the around in 10 competition.  http://www.beaufort2.nl/skippyimages/PIC01087_sml.jpg
                  Message 8 of 21 , Feb 4, 2013
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                    Gilbert used a piece of I-Beam as a keel for his sharpie SKIPPY for the around in 10 competition. 
                    http://www.beaufort2.nl/skippyimages/PIC01087_sml.jpg

                    http://www.beaufort2.nl/skippyimages/PIC01088_sml.jpg

                    http://www.beaufort2.nl/skippyimages/PIC01091_sml.jpg

                    http://www.beaufort2.nl/skippyimages/PIC01092_sml.jpg


                    He did not obtain enough sponsors to set out.

                    Here is the construction page with all the pics of the construction of his sharpie.
                    http://www.beaufort2.nl/Skippy/Buildingprocess.html

                    There are a lot of things I like about SKIPPY and i thnk a 22 foot Skippy version might be an awesome ocean alternative to a Paradox!


                    Andrew



                    ________________________________
                    From: Grant <grant@...>
                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 6:06 PM
                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????


                     
                    I've found railroad rails to be dense, heavy and cheap. They work great as "spring weights" on my mooring chain, and could be stacked closely in boat bottoms. In a recent trip to a recycling center, rails were the heaviest pieces I could find for minimum displacement -- and that's what you're looking for in ballast.




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • prairiedog2332
                    I have been thinking about this as well since Picara is one of my favourite designs much like Bolger s Long Micro in both design and size and capability
                    Message 9 of 21 , Feb 7, 2013
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                      I have been thinking about this as well since Picara is one of my
                      favourite designs much like Bolger's Long Micro in both design and size
                      and capability without the heavy keel.

                      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

                      OK Fatcat2 is unballasted and seems to function quite well and Picara
                      has a ft. wider beam. My question is - depending on where you sail or
                      how far off-shore you intend to go - is it REALLY required it has to
                      self-right from a 90 degree knock-down?

                      My thinking is to add an extra layer to the bottom and try it out like
                      that. Then during trails - including a tip-over trail - using the
                      halyard to see how much force it takes to bring it over to about 45
                      degrees then add ballast to get it where it seems safe. Perhaps some
                      steel bars attached to the bulkheads like Jim uses on some of this
                      larger sharpies, and/or batteries/sand bags, water jugs/stores secured
                      under the bunks or wherever.

                      A friend I know who had a Long Micro almost always starts out with a
                      reef in the main as it is easier to shake one out than add one and winds
                      generally perk up once you get away from shore. Ease of reefing is
                      almost as important as adding ballast. So how about a full-length batten
                      at each reef point and adding lazy jacks? Just ease the halyard and drop
                      a batten down to the boom? Reef early and often is an old sailing saw.

                      Bolger suggests in his similar designs the best option once things get
                      windy is to send the crew below to lie down in the weather bunk rather
                      than hang off the rail. Safer and just as effective if not more so.

                      You do have to add enough ballast to get the upper chine low enough
                      though to add stability. A final thought is how Jim designed the way to
                      add the external lead shoe to the bottom of Darcy Bryn.

                      http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/darcybryn/index.htm

                      I don't think Picara will work well with a lug main though as the mast
                      is too far forward for a lug and it is already in a good location to
                      have a tabernacle located in the self-draining forward well.


                      As mentioned - if deciding on a lug main and water ballast - the better
                      choice would be Blobster or maybe Caroline?

                      Nels



                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, rvwburg@... wrote:
                      >
                      > building the picara.checking out different ballast
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Roger Padvorac"
                      > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking
                      of using water??????????
                      >
                      > Â
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Robert,
                      > It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are
                      wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking
                      of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of
                      ballast solutions will be most appropriate.
                      >
                      > Sincerely,
                      > Roger
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • john colley
                      my thoughts.I sail a Hartley ts16.It has been know to recover from 110degrees.(tip of mast only a foot above the water) But,,,if it does go over it is
                      Message 10 of 21 , Feb 8, 2013
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                        my thoughts.I sail a Hartley ts16.It has been know to recover from 110degrees.(tip of mast only a foot above the water) But,,,if it does "go over" it is usually not self recoverable.Mine likes to heel at around 15Degrees and sit there.When it is pushed beyond that i start to worry.I would love a boat that is recoverable from 90.as in a knock down. if mine gets knocked down? it STAYS knocked down


                         
                        "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
                        -Sigurd Olson


                        ________________________________
                        From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
                        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, 8 February 2013 8:30 AM
                        Subject: [Michalak] Re: what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????


                         
                        I have been thinking about this as well since Picara is one of my
                        favourite designs much like Bolger's Long Micro in both design and size
                        and capability without the heavy keel.

                        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

                        OK Fatcat2 is unballasted and seems to function quite well and Picara
                        has a ft. wider beam. My question is - depending on where you sail or
                        how far off-shore you intend to go - is it REALLY required it has to
                        self-right from a 90 degree knock-down?

                        My thinking is to add an extra layer to the bottom and try it out like
                        that. Then during trails - including a tip-over trail - using the
                        halyard to see how much force it takes to bring it over to about 45
                        degrees then add ballast to get it where it seems safe. Perhaps some
                        steel bars attached to the bulkheads like Jim uses on some of this
                        larger sharpies, and/or batteries/sand bags, water jugs/stores secured
                        under the bunks or wherever.

                        A friend I know who had a Long Micro almost always starts out with a
                        reef in the main as it is easier to shake one out than add one and winds
                        generally perk up once you get away from shore. Ease of reefing is
                        almost as important as adding ballast. So how about a full-length batten
                        at each reef point and adding lazy jacks? Just ease the halyard and drop
                        a batten down to the boom? Reef early and often is an old sailing saw.

                        Bolger suggests in his similar designs the best option once things get
                        windy is to send the crew below to lie down in the weather bunk rather
                        than hang off the rail. Safer and just as effective if not more so.

                        You do have to add enough ballast to get the upper chine low enough
                        though to add stability. A final thought is how Jim designed the way to
                        add the external lead shoe to the bottom of Darcy Bryn.

                        http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/darcybryn/index.htm

                        I don't think Picara will work well with a lug main though as the mast
                        is too far forward for a lug and it is already in a good location to
                        have a tabernacle located in the self-draining forward well.

                        As mentioned - if deciding on a lug main and water ballast - the better
                        choice would be Blobster or maybe Caroline?

                        Nels

                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, rvwburg@... wrote:
                        >
                        > building the picara.checking out different ballast
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Roger Padvorac"
                        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking
                        of using water??????????
                        >
                        > Â
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Robert,
                        > It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are
                        wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking
                        of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of
                        ballast solutions will be most appropriate.
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        > Roger
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • sharpie3444
                        Nels, whay do you think of a sprit to hold the peak of Picara s main sail up. I may give that a try? David Davis
                        Message 11 of 21 , Feb 8, 2013
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                          Nels, whay do you think of a sprit to hold the peak of Picara s main sail up. I may give that a try?

                          David Davis

                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" wrote:
                          >
                          > I have been thinking about this as well since Picara is one of my
                          > favourite designs much like Bolger's Long Micro in both design and size
                          > and capability without the heavy keel.
                          >
                          > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm
                          >
                          > OK Fatcat2 is unballasted and seems to function quite well and Picara
                          > has a ft. wider beam. My question is - depending on where you sail or
                          > how far off-shore you intend to go - is it REALLY required it has to
                          > self-right from a 90 degree knock-down?
                          >
                          > My thinking is to add an extra layer to the bottom and try it out like
                          > that. Then during trails - including a tip-over trail - using the
                          > halyard to see how much force it takes to bring it over to about 45
                          > degrees then add ballast to get it where it seems safe. Perhaps some
                          > steel bars attached to the bulkheads like Jim uses on some of this
                          > larger sharpies, and/or batteries/sand bags, water jugs/stores secured
                          > under the bunks or wherever.
                          >
                          > A friend I know who had a Long Micro almost always starts out with a
                          > reef in the main as it is easier to shake one out than add one and winds
                          > generally perk up once you get away from shore. Ease of reefing is
                          > almost as important as adding ballast. So how about a full-length batten
                          > at each reef point and adding lazy jacks? Just ease the halyard and drop
                          > a batten down to the boom? Reef early and often is an old sailing saw.
                          >
                          > Bolger suggests in his similar designs the best option once things get
                          > windy is to send the crew below to lie down in the weather bunk rather
                          > than hang off the rail. Safer and just as effective if not more so.
                          >
                          > You do have to add enough ballast to get the upper chine low enough
                          > though to add stability. A final thought is how Jim designed the way to
                          > add the external lead shoe to the bottom of Darcy Bryn.
                          >
                          > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/darcybryn/index.htm
                          >
                          > I don't think Picara will work well with a lug main though as the mast
                          > is too far forward for a lug and it is already in a good location to
                          > have a tabernacle located in the self-draining forward well.
                          >
                          >
                          > As mentioned - if deciding on a lug main and water ballast - the better
                          > choice would be Blobster or maybe Caroline?
                          >
                          > Nels
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, rvwburg@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > building the picara.checking out different ballast
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: "Roger Padvorac"
                          > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking
                          > of using water??????????
                          > >
                          > > Â
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Robert,
                          > > It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are
                          > wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking
                          > of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of
                          > ballast solutions will be most appropriate.
                          > >
                          > > Sincerely,
                          > > Roger
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • rvwburg@att.net
                          has anybody ever used rebar and concrete? ... From: Roger Padvorac To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013
                          Message 12 of 21 , Feb 14, 2013
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                            has anybody ever used rebar and concrete?

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Roger Padvorac" <roger@...>
                            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                             




                            Robert,
                            It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be most appropriate.

                            Sincerely,
                            Roger

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "robert" rvwburg@... >
                            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
                            Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
                            Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • John Boy
                            Paul Fisher does in most of his designs.  http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/index.htm John Boy   I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/
                            Message 13 of 21 , Feb 14, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Paul Fisher does in most of his designs.  http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/index.htm
                              John Boy
                               


                              I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                              “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                              Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island


                              ________________________________
                              From: "rvwburg@..." <rvwburg@...>
                              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:03 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????


                               
                              has anybody ever used rebar and concrete?

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Roger Padvorac" roger@...>
                              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                               

                              Robert,
                              It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be most appropriate.

                              Sincerely,
                              Roger

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "robert" rvwburg@... >
                              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
                              Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
                              Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
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                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                            • rvwburg@att.net
                              picara sailboat is the one i was thinking about using concrete and rebar---thinking about trying water ballast too!! ... From: rvwburg@comcast.net To:
                              Message 14 of 21 , Feb 15, 2013
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                                picara sailboat is the one i was thinking about using concrete and rebar---thinking about trying water ballast too!!

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: rvwburg@...
                                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:03:23 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                                 




                                has anybody ever used rebar and concrete?

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Roger Padvorac" roger@... >
                                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                                 

                                Robert,
                                It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be most appropriate.

                                Sincerely,
                                Roger

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "robert" rvwburg@... >
                                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
                                Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
                                Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

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                              • sharpie3444
                                One could make a form to fit the outer sole area of the utility room on Picara, say up to the top of the bilge panel and pour abt 4 concrete and steel concrete
                                Message 15 of 21 , Feb 15, 2013
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                                  One could make a form to fit the outer sole area of the utility room on Picara, say up to the top of the bilge panel and pour abt 4 concrete and steel concrete weights to be the ballast for each side of the utility room. You would still have the bottom of two bulheads to hang steel or lead on to bring the weight to the desired amount. Secure with bolted in place with 2 X 6 's so they could be removed for maintenance or to adjust ballast placement. Consider heavy timbers for the base of the two bulkheads on either end of the utility room, the ballast will be anchored there, 2 X stock at least 6 inch, maybe 8 or 10 inches wide. Weight wont matter that low down, since it is a ballasted boat.

                                  Just above the ballast, on both sides of the utility room there is otherwise unused room to place foam flotation. 6 inches to 12 inches deep 2 foot wide and abt 3 foot tall, this would = either 3 or 6 cubit foot of flotation. 180 or 360 pounds flotation on each side = 360 or 720 pounds counting both sides.

                                  I would do the 180 X 2 = 360 pounds and not add a pound more than that of ballast! Flotation being above the ballast the boat should float upright if swamped.

                                  You will need a step dn when comming into the cabin from the aft deck, make it a watertight battery box, vent the top, it will add flotation and a place for batteries as low down as possible to act as addition ballast, perhaps as much as 120 pounds for two batteries, make the box so two large marine batteries fit, even if you plan on a smaller battery or no battery at all. You need the step and the floatation.

                                  Consider a big water tight airbox aft of the footwwell under the aft deck. Access hatch on the front of the bulkhead instead of on the deck.

                                  A couple ice chest one on either side of the utility room, under a cooking shelf to keep them from floating up, secured!

                                  A couple storage boxes under the aft deck, port and starbord ( behind ones legs when seated with the legs in the footwell ), 1/4 in plywood, water tight, keep them back under the deck so spray or rain wont get into them, secured! Might come to as much as 4 cubic ft = 240 pounds flotation.

                                  Storage boxes and ice chest will act as additional floataion if swamped.

                                  A Strong cover for the slot top! They make 10 oz polytarp, and 20 oz tarps for trucks. prepare to secure it well enough to keep most of the water out in a knock dn. Even sliding hatches covered with heavy polytarp might work.

                                  Just ideas, I ve done some of them, but any boat can be made safer than it is with just the basic plans

                                  David Davis



                                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, rvwburg@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > picara sailboat is the one i was thinking about using concrete and rebar---thinking about trying water ballast too!!
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: rvwburg@...
                                  > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:03:23 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > has anybody ever used rebar and concrete?
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Roger Padvorac" roger@... >
                                  > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  > Robert,
                                  > It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be most appropriate.
                                  >
                                  > Sincerely,
                                  > Roger
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "robert" rvwburg@... >
                                  > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
                                  > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
                                  > Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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                                • Martin Houston
                                  In my ferrocement 45 ftr I used iron pigs & 2inX2in steel bars 8 to 10 ft long with rebar thrown in every so often set in cement. 4 ton of it. Bilge water
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Feb 15, 2013
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                                    In my ferrocement 45 ftr I used iron pigs & 2inX2in steel bars 8 to 10 ft long with rebar thrown in every so often set in cement. 4 ton of it. Bilge water intruded it rusting to top pieces cracking the cement. Chipped it away & sealed it with epoxy & glassed it over, worked good.



                                    ________________________________
                                    From: "rvwburg@..." <rvwburg@...>
                                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:03 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                                     

                                    has anybody ever used rebar and concrete?

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Roger Padvorac" mailto:roger%40skilledwright.com>
                                    To: mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                                     

                                    Robert,
                                    It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be most appropriate.

                                    Sincerely,
                                    Roger

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "robert" mailto:rvwburg%40comcast.net >
                                    To: mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com >
                                    Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
                                    Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • John Boy
                                    A cubic foot of concrete weights around 144 pounds.  Maybe you could decide how much you want to trailer all the time and then use water ballast as trim or
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Feb 15, 2013
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                                      A cubic foot of concrete weights around 144 pounds.  Maybe you could decide how much you want to trailer all the time and then use water ballast as trim or vary according to how much stuff you're packing for a trip.
                                      John Boy
                                       


                                      I have a blog!  http://toon2sailor.blogspot.com/

                                      “Seaward ho! Hang the treasure! It's the glory of the sea that has turned my head.” 

                                      Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island


                                      ________________________________
                                      From: "rvwburg@..." <rvwburg@...>
                                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 2:54 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????


                                       
                                      picara sailboat is the one i was thinking about using concrete and rebar---thinking about trying water ballast too!!

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: rvwburg@...
                                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:03:23 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                                       

                                      has anybody ever used rebar and concrete?

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Roger Padvorac" roger@... >
                                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, February 1, 2013 12:31:30 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????

                                       

                                      Robert,
                                      It would be helpful if you shared the size and style of boat you are wanting ballast for, and the kinds of load and sailing your are thinking of doing in it. All this context has a big influence on what kinds of ballast solutions will be most appropriate.

                                      Sincerely,
                                      Roger

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "robert" rvwburg@... >
                                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com >
                                      Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 7:58 AM
                                      Subject: [Michalak] what all can be used for ballast-im thinking of using water??????????
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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