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Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

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  • John Kohnen
    Traditionally constructed dories are built upright on a thick, fore and aft bottom, with the lower side plank overlapping the bottom. Skiffs and sharpies are
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 22 2:27 PM
      Traditionally constructed dories are built upright on a thick, fore and
      aft bottom, with the lower side plank overlapping the bottom. Skiffs and
      sharpies are built upside down with the bottom, whether cross-planked or
      fore and aft planked, fastened to the bottom of the already installed
      sides and overlapping them. They're really quite different boats, with
      different lineage.

      BTW, the boat that spawned the term "shory" was probably Commodore Munro's
      Egret. Plans for Egret don't exist, but several interpretations have been
      worked up from photos and descriptions. Here's one I saw last year.
      Unfortunately, the photo doesn't really show off the great flare in the
      sides:

      <http://www.boat-links.com/images/Jombie-2011.jpg>


      On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:35:14 -0800, Andres E wrote:

      > A Pirogue like the Louisiana namesake is a skiff and a sharpie is also a
      > skill and both originate (I think) from earlier dories which came first.
      > ...

      --
      John (jkohnen@...)
      If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
      wilderness for our love. (Thomas Jefferson)
    • john colley
      It may be easier doing this lol    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd3G4wFCuyM      There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe,
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 23 12:00 AM
        It may be easier doing this lol    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd3G4wFCuyM%c2%a0%c2%a0%c2%a0


         
        "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
        -Sigurd Olson


        ________________________________
        From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
        To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 11:38 PM
        Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


        john, if you designed your boat i guess you can call it whatever you like.  dories are usually designed for rowing, so if your pirogue was designed with rowing in mind, maybe it is a dory. pirogues are usually paddled with a single blade, as i'm sure you know...would you post some pics of your boat, i've seen it before and i'm very interested in the type.  i am a compulsive builder looking for my next project : )




        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        From: Helliconia54@...
        Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:31:14 -0800
        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

         



        I have a pirogue,is it also a dory? it has flared sides and rocker.Or,is it a skiff? its got a flat bottom,maybe a canoe? pointy both ends and open.Naming a type of boat can be very frustrating.


        "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
        -Sigurd Olson

        ________________________________
        From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
        To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 2:55 AM
        Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


        andrew, where did you learn that sharpies are a type of dory? seems bogus to me. sharpies are a very different breed (wider bottom, more vertical ends, less flare and different purposes (sharpies are for sailing, dories are for rowing, in general). sharpies have little in common with dory shapes other than a flat bottom. wikipidia says sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs (not dories) i guess we're splitting hairs here but hey, its wintertime : 0

        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        From: jtrussell2@...
        Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:23:01 -0500
        Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

         

           
             
             
              For a discussion of various flat bottomed boats, Howard Chapelle’s American

        Small Craft is scholarly and exhaustive. In general, dories have great

        flare,  fore and aft bottom planking, and were designed primarily for

        rowing. Sharpies have less flare (wider bottom), have a cross planked

        bottom, and were designed primarily for sail. There are also such variations

        as the lumberman’s bateau (more flare and more rake than a dory), and the

        flat iron skiff. The wide spread use of plywood renders the cross

        planked/fore and aft planked distinction a matter of historical interest.

        JohnT

        _____ 

        From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

        Of Andres Espino

        Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:39 PM

        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com

        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

        Sharpies are a type of Dory.  Sharpies have near vertical sides and some

        like Bolgers sharpies have huge dory rocker.  Like all dories sharpies do

        not cut through waves but tend to ride over them like a toboggan.

        At the time the builder made my boat there was only Fancy Free and he wanted

        a 26 footer.  So he stretched Fancy Free 5 feet  against Glen-L

        recommendations while keeping the beam the same.  He insterted stations and

        faired the lines.  He added a head aft of the vee births and a hanging

        locker opposite.  He moved the CB trunk aft to the new center of gravity and

        increased the ballast to offset the added buoyancy.  My Keel weighed about

        600 lbs instead of the 400 original pounds.. It still had interior ballast

        that could be moved to balance the boat.

        Chessie Flyer came along later... I always suspected they got tired of

        people stretching Fancy Free.  I still like the Fancy Free design a little

        better and I like the Gaffer rather than the ketch.

        Andrew

        ________________________________

        From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com> >

        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> 

        Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:34 PM

        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

        At the top of this link Glen-L calls it a sharpie and at the bottom

        refers to it as a dory - which I thought it looked more like as well.

        http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/fancyfree.html

        Always liked the looks of this one as well:

        http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/chessieflyer.html

        Nels

        > Do any of you also see the Black Skimmer similarity in her looks?

        >

        > Andrew

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > ________________________________

        > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...

        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

        > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:45 AM

        > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

        >

        >

        > Â

        > Black Skimmer is hugely attractive as it looks fast even sitting at

        > anchor. But according to Bolger had some "issues" in practicality.

        > Main ones being that 30' mast and the amount of ballast required for

        > trailerability. Those deep leeboards also lead to lee helm when

        > partially raised when tacking in shallow water. Also a bit lacking in

        > sitting headroom below decks - a lot of crawling around required.

        >

        > So after considerable redesigning he came up with Martha Jane and

        > thought it would be a better choice.

        >

        > http://www.akzeigers.com/MJ.html

        >

        > Then it had some cockpit flooding issues in a knockdown and lead to

        > another re-design.

        >

        > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm

        >

        > The Micro series have some advantages for self -steering in that they

        > have a full-length shallow keel with outside ballast and an inboard

        > rudder forward of the mizzen location. So maintain a better range of

        > balance with the large CLR even when crew weight shifts around inside

        > the hull and just tweaking the mizzen keeps the helm neutral. In fact

        > some Micro owners like to demonstrate they can change course just

        > adjusting the mizzen a bit and not touching the tiller.

        >

        > Bolger's Long Micro is probably one of the best all around under 20'

        WL

        > "box" hulls out there. Michalak's Picara is probably close if not

        better

        > with the 2nd chine lessening pounding upwind but a more complicated

        sail

        > plan and stitch and glue construction.

        >

        > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

        >

        > If going into heavy weather I have to say perhaps Picara would win?

        >

        > Nels

        >

        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,

        Andres Espino

        > ima_very_cool_cowboy@ wrote:

        > >

        > > I think Black Skimmer is about my favorite Bolger Boat!

        > >

        > > http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html

        > >

        > > It took me a while to be able to accept square boats and the offset

        > mizzen mast on Bolger's Yawls as not being ugly LOLÂ

        Â They

        > are something that grows on you.

        > >

        > > Some people have reported the Micro and Long Micro can self steer

        with

        > that mizzen to within plus or minus 3 degrees,, it depends on wind

        > direction.

        > >

        > > Andrew

        > >

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

           
           

           
           

                                 

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                               

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • john colley
        mine just grew no plans,didn t even know it had a name,till i saw it on google I worked on the premise that,if it looks like a boat,and it floats like a
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 23 12:02 AM
          mine just "grew" no plans,didn't even know it had a name,till i saw it on google
          I worked on the premise that,if it looks like a boat,and it floats like a boat? then it IS a boat
          I made a few mistakes but in the end i was more that happy

           
          "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
          -Sigurd Olson


          ________________________________
          From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
          To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 11:38 PM
          Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


          john, if you designed your boat i guess you can call it whatever you like.  dories are usually designed for rowing, so if your pirogue was designed with rowing in mind, maybe it is a dory. pirogues are usually paddled with a single blade, as i'm sure you know...would you post some pics of your boat, i've seen it before and i'm very interested in the type.  i am a compulsive builder looking for my next project : )




          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          From: Helliconia54@...
          Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:31:14 -0800
          Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

           



          I have a pirogue,is it also a dory? it has flared sides and rocker.Or,is it a skiff? its got a flat bottom,maybe a canoe? pointy both ends and open.Naming a type of boat can be very frustrating.


          "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
          -Sigurd Olson

          ________________________________
          From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
          To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 2:55 AM
          Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


          andrew, where did you learn that sharpies are a type of dory? seems bogus to me. sharpies are a very different breed (wider bottom, more vertical ends, less flare and different purposes (sharpies are for sailing, dories are for rowing, in general). sharpies have little in common with dory shapes other than a flat bottom. wikipidia says sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs (not dories) i guess we're splitting hairs here but hey, its wintertime : 0

          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          From: jtrussell2@...
          Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:23:01 -0500
          Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

           

             
               
               
                For a discussion of various flat bottomed boats, Howard Chapelle’s American

          Small Craft is scholarly and exhaustive. In general, dories have great

          flare,  fore and aft bottom planking, and were designed primarily for

          rowing. Sharpies have less flare (wider bottom), have a cross planked

          bottom, and were designed primarily for sail. There are also such variations

          as the lumberman’s bateau (more flare and more rake than a dory), and the

          flat iron skiff. The wide spread use of plywood renders the cross

          planked/fore and aft planked distinction a matter of historical interest.

          JohnT

          _____ 

          From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

          Of Andres Espino

          Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:39 PM

          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com

          Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

          Sharpies are a type of Dory.  Sharpies have near vertical sides and some

          like Bolgers sharpies have huge dory rocker.  Like all dories sharpies do

          not cut through waves but tend to ride over them like a toboggan.

          At the time the builder made my boat there was only Fancy Free and he wanted

          a 26 footer.  So he stretched Fancy Free 5 feet  against Glen-L

          recommendations while keeping the beam the same.  He insterted stations and

          faired the lines.  He added a head aft of the vee births and a hanging

          locker opposite.  He moved the CB trunk aft to the new center of gravity and

          increased the ballast to offset the added buoyancy.  My Keel weighed about

          600 lbs instead of the 400 original pounds.. It still had interior ballast

          that could be moved to balance the boat.

          Chessie Flyer came along later... I always suspected they got tired of

          people stretching Fancy Free.  I still like the Fancy Free design a little

          better and I like the Gaffer rather than the ketch.

          Andrew

          ________________________________

          From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com> >

          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> 

          Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:34 PM

          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

          At the top of this link Glen-L calls it a sharpie and at the bottom

          refers to it as a dory - which I thought it looked more like as well.

          http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/fancyfree.html

          Always liked the looks of this one as well:

          http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/chessieflyer.html

          Nels

          > Do any of you also see the Black Skimmer similarity in her looks?

          >

          > Andrew

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          > ________________________________

          > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...

          > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

          > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:45 AM

          > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

          >

          >

          > Â

          > Black Skimmer is hugely attractive as it looks fast even sitting at

          > anchor. But according to Bolger had some "issues" in practicality.

          > Main ones being that 30' mast and the amount of ballast required for

          > trailerability. Those deep leeboards also lead to lee helm when

          > partially raised when tacking in shallow water. Also a bit lacking in

          > sitting headroom below decks - a lot of crawling around required.

          >

          > So after considerable redesigning he came up with Martha Jane and

          > thought it would be a better choice.

          >

          > http://www.akzeigers.com/MJ.html

          >

          > Then it had some cockpit flooding issues in a knockdown and lead to

          > another re-design.

          >

          > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm

          >

          > The Micro series have some advantages for self -steering in that they

          > have a full-length shallow keel with outside ballast and an inboard

          > rudder forward of the mizzen location. So maintain a better range of

          > balance with the large CLR even when crew weight shifts around inside

          > the hull and just tweaking the mizzen keeps the helm neutral. In fact

          > some Micro owners like to demonstrate they can change course just

          > adjusting the mizzen a bit and not touching the tiller.

          >

          > Bolger's Long Micro is probably one of the best all around under 20'

          WL

          > "box" hulls out there. Michalak's Picara is probably close if not

          better

          > with the 2nd chine lessening pounding upwind but a more complicated

          sail

          > plan and stitch and glue construction.

          >

          > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

          >

          > If going into heavy weather I have to say perhaps Picara would win?

          >

          > Nels

          >

          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,

          Andres Espino

          > ima_very_cool_cowboy@ wrote:

          > >

          > > I think Black Skimmer is about my favorite Bolger Boat!

          > >

          > > http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html

          > >

          > > It took me a while to be able to accept square boats and the offset

          > mizzen mast on Bolger's Yawls as not being ugly LOLÂ

          Â They

          > are something that grows on you.

          > >

          > > Some people have reported the Micro and Long Micro can self steer

          with

          > that mizzen to within plus or minus 3 degrees,, it depends on wind

          > direction.

          > >

          > > Andrew

          > >

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          >

          >

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

             
             

             
             

                                   

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                 

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • john colley
          hehehe. Yet in African a pirogue is STILL a dugout canoe.   Names is names.They just help in describing a boat type i think.Most pirogues(no,ALL) i ve seen
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 23 12:34 AM
            hehehe. Yet in African a pirogue is STILL a dugout canoe.   Names is names.They just help in describing a boat type i think.Most pirogues(no,ALL) i've seen have been one man canoes with very little freeboard and quite tippy.Mine carries 4 adults with 10 inches freeboard and i often paddle standing up.I've had 3 kids running around in her when under way too .In many ways its NOT a pirogue.(but i like the name).

             
            "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
            -Sigurd Olson


            ________________________________
            From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
            To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012 3:35 AM
            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


             
            A Pirogue like the Louisiana namesake is a skiff and a sharpie is also a skill and both originate (I think) from earlier dories which came first.  remember that the Cajun, les Cadiens or les Acadiens,came from France and were the same folks up in Ontario and Nova Scotia when Dories were carried on decks of fishing schooners.

            No doubt dories were also derived from flat boats on the European continent.

            At least your Pirogue is a cousin!  LOL

            Andrew

            ________________________________
            From: john colley <Helliconia54@...>
            To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 1:31 AM
            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


             
            I have a pirogue,is it also a dory? it has flared sides and rocker.Or,is it a skiff? its got a flat bottom,maybe a canoe? pointy both ends and open.Naming a type of boat can be very frustrating.

             
            "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
            -Sigurd Olson

            ________________________________
            From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
            To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 2:55 AM
            Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

            andrew, where did you learn that sharpies are a type of dory? seems bogus to me. sharpies are a very different breed (wider bottom, more vertical ends, less flare and different purposes (sharpies are for sailing, dories are for rowing, in general). sharpies have little in common with dory shapes other than a flat bottom. wikipidia says sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs (not dories) i guess we're splitting hairs here but hey, its wintertime : 0

            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            From: jtrussell2@...
            Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:23:01 -0500
            Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

             

               
                 
                 
                  For a discussion of various flat bottomed boats, Howard Chapelle’s American

            Small Craft is scholarly and exhaustive. In general, dories have great

            flare,  fore and aft bottom planking, and were designed primarily for

            rowing. Sharpies have less flare (wider bottom), have a cross planked

            bottom, and were designed primarily for sail. There are also such variations

            as the lumberman’s bateau (more flare and more rake than a dory), and the

            flat iron skiff. The wide spread use of plywood renders the cross

            planked/fore and aft planked distinction a matter of historical interest.

            JohnT

            _____ 

            From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

            Of Andres Espino

            Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:39 PM

            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com

            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

            Sharpies are a type of Dory.  Sharpies have near vertical sides and some

            like Bolgers sharpies have huge dory rocker.  Like all dories sharpies do

            not cut through waves but tend to ride over them like a toboggan.

            At the time the builder made my boat there was only Fancy Free and he wanted

            a 26 footer.  So he stretched Fancy Free 5 feet  against Glen-L

            recommendations while keeping the beam the same.  He insterted stations and

            faired the lines.  He added a head aft of the vee births and a hanging

            locker opposite.  He moved the CB trunk aft to the new center of gravity and

            increased the ballast to offset the added buoyancy.  My Keel weighed about

            600 lbs instead of the 400 original pounds.. It still had interior ballast

            that could be moved to balance the boat.

            Chessie Flyer came along later... I always suspected they got tired of

            people stretching Fancy Free.  I still like the Fancy Free design a little

            better and I like the Gaffer rather than the ketch.

            Andrew

            ________________________________

            From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com> >

            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> 

            Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:34 PM

            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

            At the top of this link Glen-L calls it a sharpie and at the bottom

            refers to it as a dory - which I thought it looked more like as well.

            http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/fancyfree.html

            Always liked the looks of this one as well:

            http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/chessieflyer.html

            Nels

            > Do any of you also see the Black Skimmer similarity in her looks?

            >

            > Andrew

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            > ________________________________

            > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...

            > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

            > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:45 AM

            > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

            >

            >

            > Â

            > Black Skimmer is hugely attractive as it looks fast even sitting at

            > anchor. But according to Bolger had some "issues" in practicality.

            > Main ones being that 30' mast and the amount of ballast required for

            > trailerability. Those deep leeboards also lead to lee helm when

            > partially raised when tacking in shallow water. Also a bit lacking in

            > sitting headroom below decks - a lot of crawling around required.

            >

            > So after considerable redesigning he came up with Martha Jane and

            > thought it would be a better choice.

            >

            > http://www.akzeigers.com/MJ.html

            >

            > Then it had some cockpit flooding issues in a knockdown and lead to

            > another re-design.

            >

            > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm

            >

            > The Micro series have some advantages for self -steering in that they

            > have a full-length shallow keel with outside ballast and an inboard

            > rudder forward of the mizzen location. So maintain a better range of

            > balance with the large CLR even when crew weight shifts around inside

            > the hull and just tweaking the mizzen keeps the helm neutral. In fact

            > some Micro owners like to demonstrate they can change course just

            > adjusting the mizzen a bit and not touching the tiller.

            >

            > Bolger's Long Micro is probably one of the best all around under 20'

            WL

            > "box" hulls out there. Michalak's Picara is probably close if not

            better

            > with the 2nd chine lessening pounding upwind but a more complicated

            sail

            > plan and stitch and glue construction.

            >

            > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

            >

            > If going into heavy weather I have to say perhaps Picara would win?

            >

            > Nels

            >

            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,

            Andres Espino

            > ima_very_cool_cowboy@ wrote:

            > >

            > > I think Black Skimmer is about my favorite Bolger Boat!

            > >

            > > http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html

            > >

            > > It took me a while to be able to accept square boats and the offset

            > mizzen mast on Bolger's Yawls as not being ugly LOLÂ

            Â They

            > are something that grows on you.

            > >

            > > Some people have reported the Micro and Long Micro can self steer

            with

            > that mizzen to within plus or minus 3 degrees,, it depends on wind

            > direction.

            > >

            > > Andrew

            > >

            >

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            >

            >

            >

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

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