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Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

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  • Andres Espino
    A Pirogue like the Louisiana namesake is a skiff and a sharpie is also a skill and both originate (I think) from earlier dories which came first.  remember
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 22, 2012
      A Pirogue like the Louisiana namesake is a skiff and a sharpie is also a skill and both originate (I think) from earlier dories which came first.  remember that the Cajun, les Cadiens or les Acadiens,came from France and were the same folks up in Ontario and Nova Scotia when Dories were carried on decks of fishing schooners.

      No doubt dories were also derived from flat boats on the European continent.

      At least your Pirogue is a cousin!  LOL

      Andrew





      ________________________________
      From: john colley <Helliconia54@...>
      To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 1:31 AM
      Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


       
      I have a pirogue,is it also a dory? it has flared sides and rocker.Or,is it a skiff? its got a flat bottom,maybe a canoe? pointy both ends and open.Naming a type of boat can be very frustrating.

       
      "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
      -Sigurd Olson

      ________________________________
      From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
      To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 2:55 AM
      Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


      andrew, where did you learn that sharpies are a type of dory? seems bogus to me. sharpies are a very different breed (wider bottom, more vertical ends, less flare and different purposes (sharpies are for sailing, dories are for rowing, in general). sharpies have little in common with dory shapes other than a flat bottom. wikipidia says sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs (not dories) i guess we're splitting hairs here but hey, its wintertime : 0

      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      From: jtrussell2@...
      Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:23:01 -0500
      Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

       

         
           
           
            For a discussion of various flat bottomed boats, Howard Chapelle’s American

      Small Craft is scholarly and exhaustive. In general, dories have great

      flare,  fore and aft bottom planking, and were designed primarily for

      rowing. Sharpies have less flare (wider bottom), have a cross planked

      bottom, and were designed primarily for sail. There are also such variations

      as the lumberman’s bateau (more flare and more rake than a dory), and the

      flat iron skiff. The wide spread use of plywood renders the cross

      planked/fore and aft planked distinction a matter of historical interest.

      JohnT

      _____ 

      From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

      Of Andres Espino

      Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:39 PM

      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com

      Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

      Sharpies are a type of Dory.  Sharpies have near vertical sides and some

      like Bolgers sharpies have huge dory rocker.  Like all dories sharpies do

      not cut through waves but tend to ride over them like a toboggan.

      At the time the builder made my boat there was only Fancy Free and he wanted

      a 26 footer.  So he stretched Fancy Free 5 feet  against Glen-L

      recommendations while keeping the beam the same.  He insterted stations and

      faired the lines.  He added a head aft of the vee births and a hanging

      locker opposite.  He moved the CB trunk aft to the new center of gravity and

      increased the ballast to offset the added buoyancy.  My Keel weighed about

      600 lbs instead of the 400 original pounds.. It still had interior ballast

      that could be moved to balance the boat.

      Chessie Flyer came along later... I always suspected they got tired of

      people stretching Fancy Free.  I still like the Fancy Free design a little

      better and I like the Gaffer rather than the ketch.

      Andrew

      ________________________________

      From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com> >

      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> 

      Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:34 PM

      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

      At the top of this link Glen-L calls it a sharpie and at the bottom

      refers to it as a dory - which I thought it looked more like as well.

      http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/fancyfree.html

      Always liked the looks of this one as well:

      http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/chessieflyer.html

      Nels

      > Do any of you also see the Black Skimmer similarity in her looks?

      >

      > Andrew

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      > ________________________________

      > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...

      > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

      > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:45 AM

      > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

      >

      >

      > Â

      > Black Skimmer is hugely attractive as it looks fast even sitting at

      > anchor. But according to Bolger had some "issues" in practicality.

      > Main ones being that 30' mast and the amount of ballast required for

      > trailerability. Those deep leeboards also lead to lee helm when

      > partially raised when tacking in shallow water. Also a bit lacking in

      > sitting headroom below decks - a lot of crawling around required.

      >

      > So after considerable redesigning he came up with Martha Jane and

      > thought it would be a better choice.

      >

      > http://www.akzeigers.com/MJ.html

      >

      > Then it had some cockpit flooding issues in a knockdown and lead to

      > another re-design.

      >

      > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm

      >

      > The Micro series have some advantages for self -steering in that they

      > have a full-length shallow keel with outside ballast and an inboard

      > rudder forward of the mizzen location. So maintain a better range of

      > balance with the large CLR even when crew weight shifts around inside

      > the hull and just tweaking the mizzen keeps the helm neutral. In fact

      > some Micro owners like to demonstrate they can change course just

      > adjusting the mizzen a bit and not touching the tiller.

      >

      > Bolger's Long Micro is probably one of the best all around under 20'

      WL

      > "box" hulls out there. Michalak's Picara is probably close if not

      better

      > with the 2nd chine lessening pounding upwind but a more complicated

      sail

      > plan and stitch and glue construction.

      >

      > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

      >

      > If going into heavy weather I have to say perhaps Picara would win?

      >

      > Nels

      >

      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,

      Andres Espino

      > ima_very_cool_cowboy@ wrote:

      > >

      > > I think Black Skimmer is about my favorite Bolger Boat!

      > >

      > > http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html

      > >

      > > It took me a while to be able to accept square boats and the offset

      > mizzen mast on Bolger's Yawls as not being ugly LOLÂ

      Â They

      > are something that grows on you.

      > >

      > > Some people have reported the Micro and Long Micro can self steer

      with

      > that mizzen to within plus or minus 3 degrees,, it depends on wind

      > direction.

      > >

      > > Andrew

      > >

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      >

      >

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • daniel brown
      andrew, wikipedia says pirogues evolved from dugout canoes and sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs. no mention of either evolving from dories. dories are
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 22, 2012
        andrew, wikipedia says pirogues evolved from dugout canoes and sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs. no mention of either evolving from dories. dories are different in design, construction, and purpose. i guess if one wants to get really basic about derivatives, then all boats evolved from logs. can you cite sources that either or both evolved from dories? just pissin in the wind




        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        From: ima_very_cool_cowboy@...
        Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:35:14 -0800
        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!





        A Pirogue like the Louisiana namesake is a skiff and a sharpie is also a skill and both originate (I think) from earlier dories which came first. remember that the Cajun, les Cadiens or les Acadiens,came from France and were the same folks up in Ontario and Nova Scotia when Dories were carried on decks of fishing schooners.

        No doubt dories were also derived from flat boats on the European continent.

        At least your Pirogue is a cousin! LOL

        Andrew

        ________________________________
        From: john colley <Helliconia54@...>
        To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 1:31 AM
        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!



        I have a pirogue,is it also a dory? it has flared sides and rocker.Or,is it a skiff? its got a flat bottom,maybe a canoe? pointy both ends and open.Naming a type of boat can be very frustrating.


        "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
        -Sigurd Olson

        ________________________________
        From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
        To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 2:55 AM
        Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

        andrew, where did you learn that sharpies are a type of dory? seems bogus to me. sharpies are a very different breed (wider bottom, more vertical ends, less flare and different purposes (sharpies are for sailing, dories are for rowing, in general). sharpies have little in common with dory shapes other than a flat bottom. wikipidia says sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs (not dories) i guess we're splitting hairs here but hey, its wintertime : 0

        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        From: jtrussell2@...
        Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:23:01 -0500
        Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!






        For a discussion of various flat bottomed boats, Howard Chapelle�s American

        Small Craft is scholarly and exhaustive. In general, dories have great

        flare, fore and aft bottom planking, and were designed primarily for

        rowing. Sharpies have less flare (wider bottom), have a cross planked

        bottom, and were designed primarily for sail. There are also such variations

        as the lumberman�s bateau (more flare and more rake than a dory), and the

        flat iron skiff. The wide spread use of plywood renders the cross

        planked/fore and aft planked distinction a matter of historical interest.

        JohnT

        _____

        From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

        Of Andres Espino

        Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:39 PM

        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com

        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

        Sharpies are a type of Dory. Sharpies have near vertical sides and some

        like Bolgers sharpies have huge dory rocker. Like all dories sharpies do

        not cut through waves but tend to ride over them like a toboggan.

        At the time the builder made my boat there was only Fancy Free and he wanted

        a 26 footer. So he stretched Fancy Free 5 feet against Glen-L

        recommendations while keeping the beam the same. He insterted stations and

        faired the lines. He added a head aft of the vee births and a hanging

        locker opposite. He moved the CB trunk aft to the new center of gravity and

        increased the ballast to offset the added buoyancy. My Keel weighed about

        600 lbs instead of the 400 original pounds.. It still had interior ballast

        that could be moved to balance the boat.

        Chessie Flyer came along later... I always suspected they got tired of

        people stretching Fancy Free. I still like the Fancy Free design a little

        better and I like the Gaffer rather than the ketch.

        Andrew

        ________________________________

        From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com> >

        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

        Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:34 PM

        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

        At the top of this link Glen-L calls it a sharpie and at the bottom

        refers to it as a dory - which I thought it looked more like as well.

        http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/fancyfree.html

        Always liked the looks of this one as well:

        http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/chessieflyer.html

        Nels

        > Do any of you also see the Black Skimmer similarity in her looks?

        >

        > Andrew

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > ________________________________

        > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...

        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

        > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:45 AM

        > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

        >

        >

        > �

        > Black Skimmer is hugely attractive as it looks fast even sitting at

        > anchor. But according to Bolger had some "issues" in practicality.

        > Main ones being that 30' mast and the amount of ballast required for

        > trailerability. Those deep leeboards also lead to lee helm when

        > partially raised when tacking in shallow water. Also a bit lacking in

        > sitting headroom below decks - a lot of crawling around required.

        >

        > So after considerable redesigning he came up with Martha Jane and

        > thought it would be a better choice.

        >

        > http://www.akzeigers.com/MJ.html

        >

        > Then it had some cockpit flooding issues in a knockdown and lead to

        > another re-design.

        >

        > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm

        >

        > The Micro series have some advantages for self -steering in that they

        > have a full-length shallow keel with outside ballast and an inboard

        > rudder forward of the mizzen location. So maintain a better range of

        > balance with the large CLR even when crew weight shifts around inside

        > the hull and just tweaking the mizzen keeps the helm neutral. In fact

        > some Micro owners like to demonstrate they can change course just

        > adjusting the mizzen a bit and not touching the tiller.

        >

        > Bolger's Long Micro is probably one of the best all around under 20'

        WL

        > "box" hulls out there. Michalak's Picara is probably close if not

        better

        > with the 2nd chine lessening pounding upwind but a more complicated

        sail

        > plan and stitch and glue construction.

        >

        > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

        >

        > If going into heavy weather I have to say perhaps Picara would win?

        >

        > Nels

        >

        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,

        Andres Espino

        > ima_very_cool_cowboy@ wrote:

        > >

        > > I think Black Skimmer is about my favorite Bolger Boat!

        > >

        > > http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html

        > >

        > > It took me a while to be able to accept square boats and the offset

        > mizzen mast on Bolger's Yawls as not being ugly�� LOL��

        �� They

        > are something that grows on you.

        > >

        > > Some people have reported the Micro and Long Micro can self steer

        with

        > that mizzen to within plus or minus 3 degrees,, it depends on wind

        > direction.

        > >

        > > Andrew

        > >

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Kohnen
        Traditionally constructed dories are built upright on a thick, fore and aft bottom, with the lower side plank overlapping the bottom. Skiffs and sharpies are
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 22, 2012
          Traditionally constructed dories are built upright on a thick, fore and
          aft bottom, with the lower side plank overlapping the bottom. Skiffs and
          sharpies are built upside down with the bottom, whether cross-planked or
          fore and aft planked, fastened to the bottom of the already installed
          sides and overlapping them. They're really quite different boats, with
          different lineage.

          BTW, the boat that spawned the term "shory" was probably Commodore Munro's
          Egret. Plans for Egret don't exist, but several interpretations have been
          worked up from photos and descriptions. Here's one I saw last year.
          Unfortunately, the photo doesn't really show off the great flare in the
          sides:

          <http://www.boat-links.com/images/Jombie-2011.jpg>


          On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:35:14 -0800, Andres E wrote:

          > A Pirogue like the Louisiana namesake is a skiff and a sharpie is also a
          > skill and both originate (I think) from earlier dories which came first.
          > ...

          --
          John (jkohnen@...)
          If perfection were needed for friendship the world would be a
          wilderness for our love. (Thomas Jefferson)
        • john colley
          It may be easier doing this lol    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd3G4wFCuyM      There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe,
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
            It may be easier doing this lol    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd3G4wFCuyM%c2%a0%c2%a0%c2%a0


             
            "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
            -Sigurd Olson


            ________________________________
            From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
            To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 11:38 PM
            Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


            john, if you designed your boat i guess you can call it whatever you like.  dories are usually designed for rowing, so if your pirogue was designed with rowing in mind, maybe it is a dory. pirogues are usually paddled with a single blade, as i'm sure you know...would you post some pics of your boat, i've seen it before and i'm very interested in the type.  i am a compulsive builder looking for my next project : )




            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            From: Helliconia54@...
            Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:31:14 -0800
            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

             



            I have a pirogue,is it also a dory? it has flared sides and rocker.Or,is it a skiff? its got a flat bottom,maybe a canoe? pointy both ends and open.Naming a type of boat can be very frustrating.


            "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
            -Sigurd Olson

            ________________________________
            From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
            To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 2:55 AM
            Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


            andrew, where did you learn that sharpies are a type of dory? seems bogus to me. sharpies are a very different breed (wider bottom, more vertical ends, less flare and different purposes (sharpies are for sailing, dories are for rowing, in general). sharpies have little in common with dory shapes other than a flat bottom. wikipidia says sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs (not dories) i guess we're splitting hairs here but hey, its wintertime : 0

            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            From: jtrussell2@...
            Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:23:01 -0500
            Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

             

               
                 
                 
                  For a discussion of various flat bottomed boats, Howard Chapelle’s American

            Small Craft is scholarly and exhaustive. In general, dories have great

            flare,  fore and aft bottom planking, and were designed primarily for

            rowing. Sharpies have less flare (wider bottom), have a cross planked

            bottom, and were designed primarily for sail. There are also such variations

            as the lumberman’s bateau (more flare and more rake than a dory), and the

            flat iron skiff. The wide spread use of plywood renders the cross

            planked/fore and aft planked distinction a matter of historical interest.

            JohnT

            _____ 

            From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

            Of Andres Espino

            Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:39 PM

            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com

            Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

            Sharpies are a type of Dory.  Sharpies have near vertical sides and some

            like Bolgers sharpies have huge dory rocker.  Like all dories sharpies do

            not cut through waves but tend to ride over them like a toboggan.

            At the time the builder made my boat there was only Fancy Free and he wanted

            a 26 footer.  So he stretched Fancy Free 5 feet  against Glen-L

            recommendations while keeping the beam the same.  He insterted stations and

            faired the lines.  He added a head aft of the vee births and a hanging

            locker opposite.  He moved the CB trunk aft to the new center of gravity and

            increased the ballast to offset the added buoyancy.  My Keel weighed about

            600 lbs instead of the 400 original pounds.. It still had interior ballast

            that could be moved to balance the boat.

            Chessie Flyer came along later... I always suspected they got tired of

            people stretching Fancy Free.  I still like the Fancy Free design a little

            better and I like the Gaffer rather than the ketch.

            Andrew

            ________________________________

            From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com> >

            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> 

            Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:34 PM

            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

            At the top of this link Glen-L calls it a sharpie and at the bottom

            refers to it as a dory - which I thought it looked more like as well.

            http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/fancyfree.html

            Always liked the looks of this one as well:

            http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/chessieflyer.html

            Nels

            > Do any of you also see the Black Skimmer similarity in her looks?

            >

            > Andrew

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            > ________________________________

            > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...

            > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

            > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:45 AM

            > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

            >

            >

            > Â

            > Black Skimmer is hugely attractive as it looks fast even sitting at

            > anchor. But according to Bolger had some "issues" in practicality.

            > Main ones being that 30' mast and the amount of ballast required for

            > trailerability. Those deep leeboards also lead to lee helm when

            > partially raised when tacking in shallow water. Also a bit lacking in

            > sitting headroom below decks - a lot of crawling around required.

            >

            > So after considerable redesigning he came up with Martha Jane and

            > thought it would be a better choice.

            >

            > http://www.akzeigers.com/MJ.html

            >

            > Then it had some cockpit flooding issues in a knockdown and lead to

            > another re-design.

            >

            > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm

            >

            > The Micro series have some advantages for self -steering in that they

            > have a full-length shallow keel with outside ballast and an inboard

            > rudder forward of the mizzen location. So maintain a better range of

            > balance with the large CLR even when crew weight shifts around inside

            > the hull and just tweaking the mizzen keeps the helm neutral. In fact

            > some Micro owners like to demonstrate they can change course just

            > adjusting the mizzen a bit and not touching the tiller.

            >

            > Bolger's Long Micro is probably one of the best all around under 20'

            WL

            > "box" hulls out there. Michalak's Picara is probably close if not

            better

            > with the 2nd chine lessening pounding upwind but a more complicated

            sail

            > plan and stitch and glue construction.

            >

            > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

            >

            > If going into heavy weather I have to say perhaps Picara would win?

            >

            > Nels

            >

            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,

            Andres Espino

            > ima_very_cool_cowboy@ wrote:

            > >

            > > I think Black Skimmer is about my favorite Bolger Boat!

            > >

            > > http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html

            > >

            > > It took me a while to be able to accept square boats and the offset

            > mizzen mast on Bolger's Yawls as not being ugly LOLÂ

            Â They

            > are something that grows on you.

            > >

            > > Some people have reported the Micro and Long Micro can self steer

            with

            > that mizzen to within plus or minus 3 degrees,, it depends on wind

            > direction.

            > >

            > > Andrew

            > >

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

            >

            >

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

               
               

               
               

                                     

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                   

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • john colley
            mine just grew no plans,didn t even know it had a name,till i saw it on google I worked on the premise that,if it looks like a boat,and it floats like a
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
              mine just "grew" no plans,didn't even know it had a name,till i saw it on google
              I worked on the premise that,if it looks like a boat,and it floats like a boat? then it IS a boat
              I made a few mistakes but in the end i was more that happy

               
              "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
              -Sigurd Olson


              ________________________________
              From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
              To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 11:38 PM
              Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


              john, if you designed your boat i guess you can call it whatever you like.  dories are usually designed for rowing, so if your pirogue was designed with rowing in mind, maybe it is a dory. pirogues are usually paddled with a single blade, as i'm sure you know...would you post some pics of your boat, i've seen it before and i'm very interested in the type.  i am a compulsive builder looking for my next project : )




              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              From: Helliconia54@...
              Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:31:14 -0800
              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

               



              I have a pirogue,is it also a dory? it has flared sides and rocker.Or,is it a skiff? its got a flat bottom,maybe a canoe? pointy both ends and open.Naming a type of boat can be very frustrating.


              "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
              -Sigurd Olson

              ________________________________
              From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
              To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 2:55 AM
              Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


              andrew, where did you learn that sharpies are a type of dory? seems bogus to me. sharpies are a very different breed (wider bottom, more vertical ends, less flare and different purposes (sharpies are for sailing, dories are for rowing, in general). sharpies have little in common with dory shapes other than a flat bottom. wikipidia says sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs (not dories) i guess we're splitting hairs here but hey, its wintertime : 0

              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              From: jtrussell2@...
              Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:23:01 -0500
              Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

               

                 
                   
                   
                    For a discussion of various flat bottomed boats, Howard Chapelle’s American

              Small Craft is scholarly and exhaustive. In general, dories have great

              flare,  fore and aft bottom planking, and were designed primarily for

              rowing. Sharpies have less flare (wider bottom), have a cross planked

              bottom, and were designed primarily for sail. There are also such variations

              as the lumberman’s bateau (more flare and more rake than a dory), and the

              flat iron skiff. The wide spread use of plywood renders the cross

              planked/fore and aft planked distinction a matter of historical interest.

              JohnT

              _____ 

              From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

              Of Andres Espino

              Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:39 PM

              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com

              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

              Sharpies are a type of Dory.  Sharpies have near vertical sides and some

              like Bolgers sharpies have huge dory rocker.  Like all dories sharpies do

              not cut through waves but tend to ride over them like a toboggan.

              At the time the builder made my boat there was only Fancy Free and he wanted

              a 26 footer.  So he stretched Fancy Free 5 feet  against Glen-L

              recommendations while keeping the beam the same.  He insterted stations and

              faired the lines.  He added a head aft of the vee births and a hanging

              locker opposite.  He moved the CB trunk aft to the new center of gravity and

              increased the ballast to offset the added buoyancy.  My Keel weighed about

              600 lbs instead of the 400 original pounds.. It still had interior ballast

              that could be moved to balance the boat.

              Chessie Flyer came along later... I always suspected they got tired of

              people stretching Fancy Free.  I still like the Fancy Free design a little

              better and I like the Gaffer rather than the ketch.

              Andrew

              ________________________________

              From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com> >

              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> 

              Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:34 PM

              Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

              At the top of this link Glen-L calls it a sharpie and at the bottom

              refers to it as a dory - which I thought it looked more like as well.

              http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/fancyfree.html

              Always liked the looks of this one as well:

              http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/chessieflyer.html

              Nels

              > Do any of you also see the Black Skimmer similarity in her looks?

              >

              > Andrew

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              > ________________________________

              > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...

              > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

              > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:45 AM

              > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

              >

              >

              > Â

              > Black Skimmer is hugely attractive as it looks fast even sitting at

              > anchor. But according to Bolger had some "issues" in practicality.

              > Main ones being that 30' mast and the amount of ballast required for

              > trailerability. Those deep leeboards also lead to lee helm when

              > partially raised when tacking in shallow water. Also a bit lacking in

              > sitting headroom below decks - a lot of crawling around required.

              >

              > So after considerable redesigning he came up with Martha Jane and

              > thought it would be a better choice.

              >

              > http://www.akzeigers.com/MJ.html

              >

              > Then it had some cockpit flooding issues in a knockdown and lead to

              > another re-design.

              >

              > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm

              >

              > The Micro series have some advantages for self -steering in that they

              > have a full-length shallow keel with outside ballast and an inboard

              > rudder forward of the mizzen location. So maintain a better range of

              > balance with the large CLR even when crew weight shifts around inside

              > the hull and just tweaking the mizzen keeps the helm neutral. In fact

              > some Micro owners like to demonstrate they can change course just

              > adjusting the mizzen a bit and not touching the tiller.

              >

              > Bolger's Long Micro is probably one of the best all around under 20'

              WL

              > "box" hulls out there. Michalak's Picara is probably close if not

              better

              > with the 2nd chine lessening pounding upwind but a more complicated

              sail

              > plan and stitch and glue construction.

              >

              > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

              >

              > If going into heavy weather I have to say perhaps Picara would win?

              >

              > Nels

              >

              > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,

              Andres Espino

              > ima_very_cool_cowboy@ wrote:

              > >

              > > I think Black Skimmer is about my favorite Bolger Boat!

              > >

              > > http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html

              > >

              > > It took me a while to be able to accept square boats and the offset

              > mizzen mast on Bolger's Yawls as not being ugly LOLÂ

              Â They

              > are something that grows on you.

              > >

              > > Some people have reported the Micro and Long Micro can self steer

              with

              > that mizzen to within plus or minus 3 degrees,, it depends on wind

              > direction.

              > >

              > > Andrew

              > >

              >

              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              >

              >

              >

              >

              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                 
                 

                 
                 

                                       

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                     

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • john colley
              hehehe. Yet in African a pirogue is STILL a dugout canoe.   Names is names.They just help in describing a boat type i think.Most pirogues(no,ALL) i ve seen
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
                hehehe. Yet in African a pirogue is STILL a dugout canoe.   Names is names.They just help in describing a boat type i think.Most pirogues(no,ALL) i've seen have been one man canoes with very little freeboard and quite tippy.Mine carries 4 adults with 10 inches freeboard and i often paddle standing up.I've had 3 kids running around in her when under way too .In many ways its NOT a pirogue.(but i like the name).

                 
                "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
                -Sigurd Olson


                ________________________________
                From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012 3:35 AM
                Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


                 
                A Pirogue like the Louisiana namesake is a skiff and a sharpie is also a skill and both originate (I think) from earlier dories which came first.  remember that the Cajun, les Cadiens or les Acadiens,came from France and were the same folks up in Ontario and Nova Scotia when Dories were carried on decks of fishing schooners.

                No doubt dories were also derived from flat boats on the European continent.

                At least your Pirogue is a cousin!  LOL

                Andrew

                ________________________________
                From: john colley <Helliconia54@...>
                To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 1:31 AM
                Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!


                 
                I have a pirogue,is it also a dory? it has flared sides and rocker.Or,is it a skiff? its got a flat bottom,maybe a canoe? pointy both ends and open.Naming a type of boat can be very frustrating.

                 
                "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
                -Sigurd Olson

                ________________________________
                From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
                To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012 2:55 AM
                Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

                andrew, where did you learn that sharpies are a type of dory? seems bogus to me. sharpies are a very different breed (wider bottom, more vertical ends, less flare and different purposes (sharpies are for sailing, dories are for rowing, in general). sharpies have little in common with dory shapes other than a flat bottom. wikipidia says sharpies evolved from flatiron skiffs (not dories) i guess we're splitting hairs here but hey, its wintertime : 0

                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                From: jtrussell2@...
                Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:23:01 -0500
                Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

                 

                   
                     
                     
                      For a discussion of various flat bottomed boats, Howard Chapelle’s American

                Small Craft is scholarly and exhaustive. In general, dories have great

                flare,  fore and aft bottom planking, and were designed primarily for

                rowing. Sharpies have less flare (wider bottom), have a cross planked

                bottom, and were designed primarily for sail. There are also such variations

                as the lumberman’s bateau (more flare and more rake than a dory), and the

                flat iron skiff. The wide spread use of plywood renders the cross

                planked/fore and aft planked distinction a matter of historical interest.

                JohnT

                _____ 

                From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

                Of Andres Espino

                Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:39 PM

                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com

                Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

                Sharpies are a type of Dory.  Sharpies have near vertical sides and some

                like Bolgers sharpies have huge dory rocker.  Like all dories sharpies do

                not cut through waves but tend to ride over them like a toboggan.

                At the time the builder made my boat there was only Fancy Free and he wanted

                a 26 footer.  So he stretched Fancy Free 5 feet  against Glen-L

                recommendations while keeping the beam the same.  He insterted stations and

                faired the lines.  He added a head aft of the vee births and a hanging

                locker opposite.  He moved the CB trunk aft to the new center of gravity and

                increased the ballast to offset the added buoyancy.  My Keel weighed about

                600 lbs instead of the 400 original pounds.. It still had interior ballast

                that could be moved to balance the boat.

                Chessie Flyer came along later... I always suspected they got tired of

                people stretching Fancy Free.  I still like the Fancy Free design a little

                better and I like the Gaffer rather than the ketch.

                Andrew

                ________________________________

                From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@... <mailto:nelsarv%40hotmail.com> >

                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> 

                Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:34 PM

                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

                At the top of this link Glen-L calls it a sharpie and at the bottom

                refers to it as a dory - which I thought it looked more like as well.

                http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/fancyfree.html

                Always liked the looks of this one as well:

                http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/chessieflyer.html

                Nels

                > Do any of you also see the Black Skimmer similarity in her looks?

                >

                > Andrew

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > ________________________________

                > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...

                > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>

                > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:45 AM

                > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Yawls Rock!

                >

                >

                > Â

                > Black Skimmer is hugely attractive as it looks fast even sitting at

                > anchor. But according to Bolger had some "issues" in practicality.

                > Main ones being that 30' mast and the amount of ballast required for

                > trailerability. Those deep leeboards also lead to lee helm when

                > partially raised when tacking in shallow water. Also a bit lacking in

                > sitting headroom below decks - a lot of crawling around required.

                >

                > So after considerable redesigning he came up with Martha Jane and

                > thought it would be a better choice.

                >

                > http://www.akzeigers.com/MJ.html

                >

                > Then it had some cockpit flooding issues in a knockdown and lead to

                > another re-design.

                >

                > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/index.htm

                >

                > The Micro series have some advantages for self -steering in that they

                > have a full-length shallow keel with outside ballast and an inboard

                > rudder forward of the mizzen location. So maintain a better range of

                > balance with the large CLR even when crew weight shifts around inside

                > the hull and just tweaking the mizzen keeps the helm neutral. In fact

                > some Micro owners like to demonstrate they can change course just

                > adjusting the mizzen a bit and not touching the tiller.

                >

                > Bolger's Long Micro is probably one of the best all around under 20'

                WL

                > "box" hulls out there. Michalak's Picara is probably close if not

                better

                > with the 2nd chine lessening pounding upwind but a more complicated

                sail

                > plan and stitch and glue construction.

                >

                > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

                >

                > If going into heavy weather I have to say perhaps Picara would win?

                >

                > Nels

                >

                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,

                Andres Espino

                > ima_very_cool_cowboy@ wrote:

                > >

                > > I think Black Skimmer is about my favorite Bolger Boat!

                > >

                > > http://www.instantboats.com/bskim.html

                > >

                > > It took me a while to be able to accept square boats and the offset

                > mizzen mast on Bolger's Yawls as not being ugly LOLÂ

                Â They

                > are something that grows on you.

                > >

                > > Some people have reported the Micro and Long Micro can self steer

                with

                > that mizzen to within plus or minus 3 degrees,, it depends on wind

                > direction.

                > >

                > > Andrew

                > >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                   
                   

                   
                   

                                         

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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