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Boat Building Cost

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  • Donald Greer
    Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a rule of thumb for final boat cost based on the plywood bill? My assumption is that if you go for a marine-ply
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 21, 2012
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      Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a "rule of thumb" for final
      boat cost based on the plywood bill? My assumption is that if you go for a
      marine-ply build, then you'll use appropriately more
      expensive accouterments so I'm thinking the relationships is pretty much
      linear (why in hell would you spend 2x for marine, then use crappy
      hardware?).
      Anyway, just asking as I've created a spreadsheet to make some estimates
      on some of Jim's boats based on plywood bill and glass kits from Duckworks.
      Don

      PS, if you're curious, here's a link to the spreadsheet I've been playing
      with.

      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvQeX8mehBtPdHd4MC1LaWVSblFOZmlkelRIZTctN3c

      --
      "I don't necessarily believe that software should be free, but if you pay
      for it, it should work." -- Me


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tim Anderson
      you have left out the priceless factor of the equation: the hours of your life that you have invested in the project. We can not purchase replacement hours at
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 21, 2012
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        you have left out the priceless factor of the equation: the hours of your
        life that you have invested in the project. We can not purchase replacement
        hours at any price; therefore why build from inferior materials? If this
        project is worth the hours of my life (including those that i spent in the
        study and practice of my craft) then the project should be built from the
        best materials that i can reasonably afford.
        Better materials means less time spent in making poor quality material look
        good. Finishing ACX is twice as costly in hours as AA Marine.
        I have built experimental boats out of cheaper ply (luan, ACX) with the
        fore knowledge that longevity was not an issue; but on several occasions i
        came to rue the decision after the boat worked well but then started to
        deteriorate after a short time. Tim P Anderson swamp dweller


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mark Albanese
        This a rather nice effort, Don. I wondered where the marine ply at such bargain prices could come from tho, so checked out your Roddis Lumber. Looks wonderful!
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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          This a rather nice effort, Don. I wondered where the marine ply at
          such bargain prices could come from tho, so checked out your Roddis
          Lumber. Looks wonderful! Sad to say, $63 3/4" marine can only be had
          at the end of some very congenial time warp.

          The two ways of thumbing boat costs are generally length, deceptive,
          and weight, more accurate.

          Here's Jim from 1999 on estimating boat costs. Takeaway that there's
          more to it than the plywood and epoxy, and he left out all that
          sandpaper.
          http://tinyurl.com/bkuetba

          This is his amusing Boat Baloney article.
          http://tinyurl.com/a48lvwj

          Others have put cheap homebuilts at $2-3 a pound, a bit more than
          you're showing.
          Mark

          On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Donald Greer wrote:

          > Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a "rule of thumb" for final
          > boat cost based on the plywood bill? My assumption is that if you
          > go for a
          > marine-ply build, then you'll use appropriately more
          > expensive accouterments so I'm thinking the relationships is pretty
          > much
          > linear (why in hell would you spend 2x for marine, then use crappy
          > hardware?).
          > Anyway, just asking as I've created a spreadsheet to make some
          > estimates
          > on some of Jim's boats based on plywood bill and glass kits from
          > Duckworks.
          > Don
          >
          > PS, if you're curious, here's a link to the spreadsheet I've been
          > playing
          > with.
          >
          > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?
          > key=0AvQeX8mehBtPdHd4MC1LaWVSblFOZmlkelRIZTctN3c
          >
          > --
          > "I don't necessarily believe that software should be free, but if
          > you pay
          > for it, it should work." -- Me
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Donald Greer
          Tim, I m discounting my time, but I haven t yet put it in the time to master the craft, so marine ply may be wasted on my skills. After a couple of smaller
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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            Tim,
            I'm discounting my time, but I haven't yet put it in the time to master the
            craft, so marine ply may be wasted on my skills. After a couple of smaller
            boats work out for me, then they investment makes sense, at least that's
            how I've been looking at it.

            Mark,
            Thanks. I do this with everything, habit of a computer nerd and serial
            entrepreneur :-). I was a little shocked at those prices myself, as
            everyone else I have talked to has given prices about 20% higher. Looks
            like I've found my wood supplier.
            On Nov 22, 2012 3:48 AM, "Mark Albanese" <marka97203@...> wrote:

            > This a rather nice effort, Don. I wondered where the marine ply at
            > such bargain prices could come from tho, so checked out your Roddis
            > Lumber. Looks wonderful! Sad to say, $63 3/4" marine can only be had
            > at the end of some very congenial time warp.
            >
            > The two ways of thumbing boat costs are generally length, deceptive,
            > and weight, more accurate.
            >
            > Here's Jim from 1999 on estimating boat costs. Takeaway that there's
            > more to it than the plywood and epoxy, and he left out all that
            > sandpaper.
            > http://tinyurl.com/bkuetba
            >
            > This is his amusing Boat Baloney article.
            > http://tinyurl.com/a48lvwj
            >
            > Others have put cheap homebuilts at $2-3 a pound, a bit more than
            > you're showing.
            > Mark
            >
            > On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Donald Greer wrote:
            >
            > > Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a "rule of thumb" for final
            > > boat cost based on the plywood bill? My assumption is that if you
            > > go for a
            > > marine-ply build, then you'll use appropriately more
            > > expensive accouterments so I'm thinking the relationships is pretty
            > > much
            > > linear (why in hell would you spend 2x for marine, then use crappy
            > > hardware?).
            > > Anyway, just asking as I've created a spreadsheet to make some
            > > estimates
            > > on some of Jim's boats based on plywood bill and glass kits from
            > > Duckworks.
            > > Don
            > >
            > > PS, if you're curious, here's a link to the spreadsheet I've been
            > > playing
            > > with.
            > >
            > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?
            > > key=0AvQeX8mehBtPdHd4MC1LaWVSblFOZmlkelRIZTctN3c
            > >
            > > --
            > > "I don't necessarily believe that software should be free, but if
            > > you pay
            > > for it, it should work." -- Me
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Martin Houston
            No matter what formula you use it always costs more & takes longer than you think it will. We all know this going in. There are no cheap boats. If you want it
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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              No matter what formula you use it always costs more & takes longer than you think it will. We all know this going in. There are no cheap boats. If you want it bad enough, you do whatever it takes. Then you will have a boat.



              ________________________________
              From: Mark Albanese <marka97203@...>
              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:48 AM
              Subject: [Michalak] Re: Boat Building Cost

              This a rather nice effort, Don. I wondered where the marine ply at 
              such bargain prices could come from tho, so checked out your Roddis 
              Lumber. Looks wonderful! Sad to say, $63 3/4" marine can only be had 
              at the end of some very congenial time warp.

              The two ways of thumbing boat costs are generally length, deceptive, 
              and weight, more accurate.

              Here's Jim from 1999 on estimating boat costs. Takeaway that there's 
              more to it than the plywood and epoxy, and he left out all that 
              sandpaper.
              http://tinyurl.com/bkuetba

              This is his amusing Boat Baloney article.
              http://tinyurl.com/a48lvwj

              Others have put cheap homebuilts at $2-3 a pound, a bit more than 
              you're showing.
              Mark

              On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Donald Greer wrote:

              > Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a "rule of thumb" for final
              > boat cost based on the plywood bill? My assumption is that if you 
              > go for a
              > marine-ply build, then you'll use appropriately more
              > expensive accouterments so I'm thinking the relationships is pretty 
              > much
              > linear (why in hell would you spend 2x for marine, then use crappy
              > hardware?).
              > Anyway, just asking as I've created a spreadsheet to make some 
              > estimates
              > on some of Jim's boats based on plywood bill and glass kits from 
              > Duckworks.
              > Don
              >
              > PS, if you're curious, here's a link to the spreadsheet I've been 
              > playing
              > with.
              >
              > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?
              > key=0AvQeX8mehBtPdHd4MC1LaWVSblFOZmlkelRIZTctN3c
              >
              > --
              > "I don't necessarily believe that software should be free, but if 
              > you pay
              > for it, it should work." -- Me
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mark Albanese
              Actually, nice materials can accelerate your learning curve, less time and money spent making up for deficiencies in the cheap stuff. ... [Non-text portions of
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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                Actually, nice materials can accelerate your learning curve, less
                time and money spent making up for deficiencies in the cheap stuff.


                On Nov 22, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Donald Greer wrote:

                > Tim,
                > I'm discounting my time, but I haven't yet put it in the time to
                > master the
                > craft, so marine ply may be wasted on my skills. After a couple of
                > smaller
                > boats work out for me, then they investment makes sense, at least
                > that's
                > how I've been looking at it.
                >
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mark Albanese
                ... Just so! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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                  On Nov 22, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Martin Houston wrote:

                  > No matter what formula you use it always costs more & takes longer
                  > than you think it will. We all know this going in. There are no
                  > cheap boats. If you want it bad enough, you do whatever it takes.
                  > Then you will have a boat.
                  >
                  > _.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Just so!

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Donald Greer
                  Hmmm... Hadn t thought of that. Thanks. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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                    Hmmm... Hadn't thought of that. Thanks.
                    On Nov 22, 2012 4:24 PM, "Mark Albanese" <marka97203@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Actually, nice materials can accelerate your learning curve, less
                    > time and money spent making up for deficiencies in the cheap stuff.
                    >
                    > On Nov 22, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Donald Greer wrote:
                    >
                    > > Tim,
                    > > I'm discounting my time, but I haven't yet put it in the time to
                    > > master the
                    > > craft, so marine ply may be wasted on my skills. After a couple of
                    > > smaller
                    > > boats work out for me, then they investment makes sense, at least
                    > > that's
                    > > how I've been looking at it.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Hajo Smulders
                    Everybody I know that has been building boats for a while graduates to marine plywoods. I build my last boat in underlayment. And like all those other
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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                      Everybody I know that has been building boats for a while graduates to
                      marine plywoods. I build my last boat in underlayment. And like all
                      those other builders, I wish I had switched at least one boat
                      earlier...

                      Hajo Smulders
                      Sent from my mobile

                      On Nov 22, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Donald Greer <dgreer@...> wrote:

                      > Hmmm... Hadn't thought of that. Thanks.
                      > On Nov 22, 2012 4:24 PM, "Mark Albanese" <marka97203@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> **
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Actually, nice materials can accelerate your learning curve, less
                      >> time and money spent making up for deficiencies in the cheap stuff.
                      >>
                      >> On Nov 22, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Donald Greer wrote:
                      >>
                      >>> Tim,
                      >>> I'm discounting my time, but I haven't yet put it in the time to
                      >>> master the
                      >>> craft, so marine ply may be wasted on my skills. After a couple of
                      >>> smaller
                      >>> boats work out for me, then they investment makes sense, at least
                      >>> that's
                      >>> how I've been looking at it.
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Donald Greer
                      Well, you guys aren t being kind to the bank account ;) but looks like I ll switch to marine with #2 (#1 will be a puddle duck to get my feet wet and because
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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                        Well, you guys aren't being kind to the bank account ;) but looks like I'll
                        switch to marine with #2 (#1 will be a puddle duck to get my feet wet and
                        because it's.small enough to use in the tank).

                        Thanks for all the advise!

                        And happy Thanksgiving!

                        Don
                        On Nov 22, 2012 5:42 PM, "Hajo Smulders" <hajosmulders@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Everybody I know that has been building boats for a while graduates to
                        > marine plywoods. I build my last boat in underlayment. And like all
                        > those other builders, I wish I had switched at least one boat
                        > earlier...
                        >
                        > Hajo Smulders
                        > Sent from my mobile
                        >
                        > On Nov 22, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Donald Greer <dgreer@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hmmm... Hadn't thought of that. Thanks.
                        > > On Nov 22, 2012 4:24 PM, "Mark Albanese" <marka97203@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >> **
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> Actually, nice materials can accelerate your learning curve, less
                        > >> time and money spent making up for deficiencies in the cheap stuff.
                        > >>
                        > >> On Nov 22, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Donald Greer wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>> Tim,
                        > >>> I'm discounting my time, but I haven't yet put it in the time to
                        > >>> master the
                        > >>> craft, so marine ply may be wasted on my skills. After a couple of
                        > >>> smaller
                        > >>> boats work out for me, then they investment makes sense, at least
                        > >>> that's
                        > >>> how I've been looking at it.
                        > >>
                        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mark Albanese
                        My favorite for cheaper ply is the radiata pine, Arauco, which Roddis appears to carry. It cuts and planes without splintering and finishes well. Some batches
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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                          My favorite for cheaper ply is the radiata pine, Arauco, which Roddis
                          appears to carry. It cuts and planes without splintering and finishes
                          well. Some batches have a tendency to curl, so pick you sheets
                          carefully, or follow Payson's method of wetting, then drying in the sun.

                          Just Tofurkey for me today, but I like it! Cheers

                          On Nov 22, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Donald Greer wrote:

                          > Well, you guys aren't being kind to the bank account ;) but looks
                          > like I'll
                          > switch to marine with #2 (#1 will be a puddle duck to get my feet
                          > wet and
                          > because it's.small enough to use in the tank).
                          >
                          > Thanks for all the advise!
                          >
                          > And happy Thanksgiving!



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • joe_mapango
                          Boat building or buying has always tended to cost me whatever money I had or could blow on it at any given time. I m a vegetarian so I m going turkey less
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 22, 2012
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                            Boat building or buying has always tended to cost me whatever money I had or could blow on it at any given time.

                            I'm a vegetarian so I'm going turkey less also. Here were eating Jimmy "bean" sausage, UMMMM, better than the "real" stuff anyday!

                            Chris Curtis
                            S/V Romany
                            curtisfamilyadventures.wordpress.com



                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Mark Albanese <marka97203@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > My favorite for cheaper ply is the radiata pine, Arauco, which Roddis
                            > appears to carry. It cuts and planes without splintering and finishes
                            > well. Some batches have a tendency to curl, so pick you sheets
                            > carefully, or follow Payson's method of wetting, then drying in the sun.
                            >
                            > Just Tofurkey for me today, but I like it! Cheers
                            >
                            > On Nov 22, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Donald Greer wrote:
                            >
                            > > Well, you guys aren't being kind to the bank account ;) but looks
                            > > like I'll
                            > > switch to marine with #2 (#1 will be a puddle duck to get my feet
                            > > wet and
                            > > because it's.small enough to use in the tank).
                            > >
                            > > Thanks for all the advise!
                            > >
                            > > And happy Thanksgiving!
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • john colley
                            Hmmm,don t know about that.I ll bet when you finish your first boat ,you ll be so proud of your self that you ll regret not using good stuff..There is no
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 23, 2012
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                              Hmmm,don't know about that.I'll bet when you finish your first boat ,you'll be so proud of your self that you'll regret not using good stuff..There is no mistake so big that you cannot fix with enough epoxy.I built my first boat straight from my head,no plans.Used marine ply and stitch and glue techniques i picked from John Welsfords excelent book Back yard boat builder. .



                               
                              "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
                              -Sigurd Olson


                              ________________________________
                              From: Donald Greer <dgreer@...>
                              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012 1:07 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Boat Building Cost


                               
                              Tim,
                              I'm discounting my time, but I haven't yet put it in the time to master the
                              craft, so marine ply may be wasted on my skills. After a couple of smaller
                              boats work out for me, then they investment makes sense, at least that's
                              how I've been looking at it.

                              Mark,
                              Thanks. I do this with everything, habit of a computer nerd and serial
                              entrepreneur :-). I was a little shocked at those prices myself, as
                              everyone else I have talked to has given prices about 20% higher. Looks
                              like I've found my wood supplier.
                              On Nov 22, 2012 3:48 AM, "Mark Albanese" <marka97203@...> wrote:

                              > This a rather nice effort, Don. I wondered where the marine ply at
                              > such bargain prices could come from tho, so checked out your Roddis
                              > Lumber. Looks wonderful! Sad to say, $63 3/4" marine can only be had
                              > at the end of some very congenial time warp.
                              >
                              > The two ways of thumbing boat costs are generally length, deceptive,
                              > and weight, more accurate.
                              >
                              > Here's Jim from 1999 on estimating boat costs. Takeaway that there's
                              > more to it than the plywood and epoxy, and he left out all that
                              > sandpaper.
                              > http://tinyurl.com/bkuetba
                              >
                              > This is his amusing Boat Baloney article.
                              > http://tinyurl.com/a48lvwj
                              >
                              > Others have put cheap homebuilts at $2-3 a pound, a bit more than
                              > you're showing.
                              > Mark
                              >
                              > On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Donald Greer wrote:
                              >
                              > > Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a "rule of thumb" for final
                              > > boat cost based on the plywood bill? My assumption is that if you
                              > > go for a
                              > > marine-ply build, then you'll use appropriately more
                              > > expensive accouterments so I'm thinking the relationships is pretty
                              > > much
                              > > linear (why in hell would you spend 2x for marine, then use crappy
                              > > hardware?).
                              > > Anyway, just asking as I've created a spreadsheet to make some
                              > > estimates
                              > > on some of Jim's boats based on plywood bill and glass kits from
                              > > Duckworks.
                              > > Don
                              > >
                              > > PS, if you're curious, here's a link to the spreadsheet I've been
                              > > playing
                              > > with.
                              > >
                              > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?
                              > > key=0AvQeX8mehBtPdHd4MC1LaWVSblFOZmlkelRIZTctN3c
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > "I don't necessarily believe that software should be free, but if
                              > > you pay
                              > > for it, it should work." -- Me
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • john colley
                              I agree with you.Minecost me as much as a fibreglass production canoe,But it has WAY more character.   There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 23, 2012
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                                I agree with you.Minecost me as much as a fibreglass production canoe,But it has WAY more character.

                                 
                                "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
                                -Sigurd Olson


                                ________________________________
                                From: Martin Houston <mtnridr13@...>
                                To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012 3:10 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Boat Building Cost


                                 
                                No matter what formula you use it always costs more & takes longer than you think it will. We all know this going in. There are no cheap boats. If you want it bad enough, you do whatever it takes. Then you will have a boat.

                                ________________________________
                                From: Mark Albanese <marka97203@...>
                                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:48 AM
                                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Boat Building Cost

                                This a rather nice effort, Don. I wondered where the marine ply at 
                                such bargain prices could come from tho, so checked out your Roddis 
                                Lumber. Looks wonderful! Sad to say, $63 3/4" marine can only be had 
                                at the end of some very congenial time warp.

                                The two ways of thumbing boat costs are generally length, deceptive, 
                                and weight, more accurate.

                                Here's Jim from 1999 on estimating boat costs. Takeaway that there's 
                                more to it than the plywood and epoxy, and he left out all that 
                                sandpaper.
                                http://tinyurl.com/bkuetba

                                This is his amusing Boat Baloney article.
                                http://tinyurl.com/a48lvwj

                                Others have put cheap homebuilts at $2-3 a pound, a bit more than 
                                you're showing.
                                Mark

                                On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Donald Greer wrote:

                                > Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a "rule of thumb" for final
                                > boat cost based on the plywood bill? My assumption is that if you 
                                > go for a
                                > marine-ply build, then you'll use appropriately more
                                > expensive accouterments so I'm thinking the relationships is pretty 
                                > much
                                > linear (why in hell would you spend 2x for marine, then use crappy
                                > hardware?).
                                > Anyway, just asking as I've created a spreadsheet to make some 
                                > estimates
                                > on some of Jim's boats based on plywood bill and glass kits from 
                                > Duckworks.
                                > Don
                                >
                                > PS, if you're curious, here's a link to the spreadsheet I've been 
                                > playing
                                > with.
                                >
                                > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?
                                > key=0AvQeX8mehBtPdHd4MC1LaWVSblFOZmlkelRIZTctN3c
                                >
                                > --
                                > "I don't necessarily believe that software should be free, but if 
                                > you pay
                                > for it, it should work." -- Me
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                ------------------------------------

                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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