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Re: Proud Lead

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  • vicskiff <john.ewing@shaw.ca>
    Thanks for the prompt info, Mark, Bill Tim et al. I don t have a Sureform and, before heading out to House of Tools or Canadian Tire to get one, I decided to
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 6, 2003
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      Thanks for the prompt info, Mark, Bill Tim et al.

      I don't have a Sureform and, before heading out to House of Tools or
      Canadian Tire to get one, I decided to try a wood rasp. The rasp
      worked moderately well but it was going to take awhile so I
      impetuously grabbed my Craftsman power plane. This worked like a hot
      damn (and without noticeable damage to the blade, something I was
      worried about). I took out the plane gouges with 36-grit paper in my
      belt sander. There's still shallow dishing in the centre of the lead
      on both sides but thickened epoxy should bring it level, eh?

      John, in Victoria

      Now that I'm so close to relaunching the Surf (for sailing, not just
      rowing) we're losing our nice, deep wintertime high tides in daylight
      on Portage Inlet. Pity.


      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Paxton <Bill@P...>"
      <Bill@P...> wrote:
      > Mark,
      > Last summer I made a Michalak kick-up rudder for my Weekender, and
      > used a Surform tool to knock off the excess lead. I found it
      helpful
      > to use the tool in one direction, leaving grooves. Next I used the
      > tool at a right angle to the grooves. It seemed to work well.
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A." <marka@h...> wrote:
      > > Oh great! I wondered if a Surform would be sturdy enough. They
      are
      > so good at so much else.
      > > Mark
      > >
      > > Derek Waters wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi John
      > > >
      > > > A 'cheese grater' type rasp, of the sort (which used to be)
      sold
      > as Stanley
      > > > Surform will make very short work of the excess. They cut
      without
      > clogging
      > > > where ordinary rasps quickly choke. If you harden your heart
      > almost any
      > > > edged tool will work - I've used an electric handplane before
      > now :)
      > > >
      > > > Cheers
      > > > Derek
      > > >
      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > > Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • gbb132000 <gbb132000@yahoo.com>
      Power plane?? BELT SANDER?!?! Good GOD! Do you people realize how toxic lead is? Do any of you have kids in the house that might be exposed to all the toxic
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 6, 2003
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        Power plane?? BELT SANDER?!?! Good GOD!

        Do you people realize how toxic lead is? Do any of you have kids in
        the house that might be exposed to all the toxic @#!$ you scattered
        around your garage and into the air?

        Look, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket here, but,

        1 - Melt the stuff in a WELL ventilated place, and consider goggles
        and a respirator.

        2 - Wear gloves and other sensible protective equipment when handling
        it.

        3 - Wash carefully after handling it. and,

        4 - For heavens sake clean up your mess.

        Do some reading about the toxicity of lead, and about proper handling
        of same. Working with lead is not beyond the means of a do it
        yourselfer; If I needed something cast from lead, I'd go for it. But
        the stuff is poisen, and should be treated accordingly.

        The comment from another contributor about water getting into the
        melting pot was also well taken. Lead hot enough to be molten will
        vaporize water so violently as to make it explosive. Pouring molten
        lead into a mold with traces of water in it is a great way to get
        disfigured.

        gbb

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vicskiff <john.ewing@s...>"
        <john.ewing@s...> wrote:
        > Thanks for the prompt info, Mark, Bill Tim et al.
        >
        > I don't have a Sureform and, before heading out to House of Tools
        or
        > Canadian Tire to get one, I decided to try a wood rasp. The rasp
        > worked moderately well but it was going to take awhile so I
        > impetuously grabbed my Craftsman power plane. This worked like a
        hot
        > damn (and without noticeable damage to the blade, something I was
        > worried about). I took out the plane gouges with 36-grit paper in
        my
        > belt sander. There's still shallow dishing in the centre of the
        lead
        > on both sides but thickened epoxy should bring it level, eh?
        >
        > John, in Victoria
        >
        > Now that I'm so close to relaunching the Surf (for sailing, not
        just
        > rowing) we're losing our nice, deep wintertime high tides in
        daylight
        > on Portage Inlet. Pity.
        >
        >
        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Paxton <Bill@P...>"
        > <Bill@P...> wrote:
        > > Mark,
        > > Last summer I made a Michalak kick-up rudder for my Weekender,
        and
        > > used a Surform tool to knock off the excess lead. I found it
        > helpful
        > > to use the tool in one direction, leaving grooves. Next I used
        the
        > > tool at a right angle to the grooves. It seemed to work well.
        > >
        > > Bill
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A." <marka@h...> wrote:
        > > > Oh great! I wondered if a Surform would be sturdy enough. They
        > are
        > > so good at so much else.
        > > > Mark
        > > >
        > > > Derek Waters wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi John
        > > > >
        > > > > A 'cheese grater' type rasp, of the sort (which used to be)
        > sold
        > > as Stanley
        > > > > Surform will make very short work of the excess. They cut
        > without
        > > clogging
        > > > > where ordinary rasps quickly choke. If you harden your heart
        > > almost any
        > > > > edged tool will work - I've used an electric handplane before
        > > now :)
        > > > >
        > > > > Cheers
        > > > > Derek
        > > > >
        > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > > > Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • vicskiff <john.ewing@shaw.ca>
        ... in the house that might be exposed to all the toxic @#!$ you scattered around your garage and into the air? No, I don t. Besides, lead is pretty heavy
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 6, 2003
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          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gbb132000 <gbb132000@y...>"
          <gbb132000@y...> wrote:
          > Power plane?? BELT SANDER?!?! Good GOD!
          > Do you people realize how toxic lead is? Do any of you have kids
          in the house that might be exposed to all the toxic @#!$ you
          scattered around your garage and into the air?

          No, I don't. Besides, lead is pretty heavy stuff and doesn't fly far.

          >Look, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket here, but,
          > 1 - Melt the stuff in a WELL ventilated place, and consider goggles
          > and a respirator.
          > 2 - Wear gloves and other sensible protective equipment when
          handling it.

          Agreed. I did the initial melting and pouring OUTSIDE. And wore
          protection besides!

          > 3 - Wash carefully after handling it. and,
          > 4 - For heavens sake clean up your mess.

          Of course. Why would you suggest I wouldn't have cleaned up?

          > Do some reading about the toxicity of lead, and about proper
          handling of same. Working with lead is not beyond the means of a do
          it yourselfer; If I needed something cast from lead, I'd go for it.
          But the stuff is poisen, and should be treated accordingly.


          Hmmm. Well, in it's solid form, lead must be relatively inert.
          Granted, it's a danger when swallowed -- as when dabbling ducks pick
          up lead shot from the lake bottom and it sits in their crops for a
          time. But don't fishermen handle lead sinkers every day? I can't
          imagine that they're in mortal danger (unless they pop the sinkers
          down with their hangover aspirin or something).

          Sure lead is dangerous when melted and releases arsenic in gaseous
          form. As a component in bottom paint it may be dangerous to marine
          life. But I can't believe casual contact handling solid lead would
          bring the sky to fall. IMHO.

          John
        • Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@hotmail.com>
          Working lead with a power tool can indeed make a toxic dust, that inhaled, ingested or otherwise gotten inside you is very bad. Any fine lead dust in the
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 7, 2003
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            Working lead with a power tool can indeed make a toxic dust, that
            inhaled, ingested or otherwise gotten inside you is very bad. Any
            fine lead dust in the cracks of your fingers, eyelids, clothing, etc.
            can find their way into your GI tract later unwittingly with
            disasterous results. I mean, look at what happened to the Franklin
            party!

            Fortunately, it melts so easily that power tools can quickly clog,
            overhead, and even melt your work. Simply drilling into it with a
            power drill is difficult as it melts as you try to drill a clean hole.

            But, hand tools won't make a small enough grit to git ya" if you're
            careful and wear a particle mask, gloves and long sleeves, etc. It's
            a good thing that lead is soft enought to use a Stanley Sure Form
            tool on, or a hand saw, chisels, hand drill, etc...

            Bruce Hector
            http://www.brucesboats.com
          • pibracing <mcerio02@twcny.rr.com>
            Dust? Please explain how you get dust from sanding lead.I have never had good luck sanding or grinding on lead and there was no dust at all.The only thing
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 7, 2003
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              Dust? Please explain how you get dust from sanding lead.I have never
              had good luck sanding or grinding on lead and there was no dust at
              all.The only thing coming off the lead was large chunks of lead.I
              think this whole lead poison thing is blown out of proportion.

              mike

              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@h...>"
              <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
              > Working lead with a power tool can indeed make a toxic dust, that
              > inhaled, ingested or otherwise gotten inside you is very bad. Any
              > fine lead dust in the cracks of your fingers, eyelids, clothing, etc.
              > can find their way into your GI tract later unwittingly with
              > disasterous results. I mean, look at what happened to the Franklin
              > party!
              >
              > Fortunately, it melts so easily that power tools can quickly clog,
              > overhead, and even melt your work. Simply drilling into it with a
              > power drill is difficult as it melts as you try to drill a clean hole.
              >
              > But, hand tools won't make a small enough grit to git ya" if you're
              > careful and wear a particle mask, gloves and long sleeves, etc. It's
              > a good thing that lead is soft enought to use a Stanley Sure Form
              > tool on, or a hand saw, chisels, hand drill, etc...
              >
              > Bruce Hector
              > http://www.brucesboats.com
            • gbb132000 <gbb132000@yahoo.com>
              I wasn t suggesting that you didn t clean up your mess. Some of the other members commented about dust and shavings scattered about their garages. I believe
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 7, 2003
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                I wasn't suggesting that you didn't clean up your mess. Some of the
                other members commented about dust and shavings scattered about their
                garages. I believe one of them referred to his house as a potential
                superfund sight.

                In solid form, lead is reasonably tame. Heat it up to the melting
                point, and things get different.

                Heating it up to the melting point could result from melting it for a
                casting operation, or from the friction resultant from using power
                tools on it.

                Ammunition producers have not only had to come up with non-lead
                birdshot (so waterfowl won't eat residual pellets) but have also had
                to come up with non-lead bullets for indoor target ranges so that
                vaporized and otherwise airborn lead doesn't get breathed.
                Most 'leaded' glass these days is made with zinc, not lead.
                (Exposure to fumes from soldering the stuff is a problem for
                workers). And there is growing pressure to get the lead out of
                fishing sinkers and solder.

                As someone pointed out, we are all grown-ups here. But there is a
                long stretch of difference between handling a fishing sinker and
                grinding the material with a power tool. Or melting and pouring it.

                I would suggest that people who want to work with lead do a Google
                search on 'lead toxicity' and read up on the subject rather than
                depending upon what they would or wouldn't think or assume.

                I think I made it clear in my initial remarks that if I needed to
                cast something out of lead I'd go for it. What I stressed is that
                you should educate yourself and take proper precautions.

                gbb

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vicskiff <john.ewing@s...>"
                <john.ewing@s...> wrote:
                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gbb132000 <gbb132000@y...>"
                > <gbb132000@y...> wrote:
                > > Power plane?? BELT SANDER?!?! Good GOD!
                > > Do you people realize how toxic lead is? Do any of you have kids
                > in the house that might be exposed to all the toxic @#!$ you
                > scattered around your garage and into the air?
                >
                > No, I don't. Besides, lead is pretty heavy stuff and doesn't fly
                far.
                >
                > >Look, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket here, but,
                > > 1 - Melt the stuff in a WELL ventilated place, and consider
                goggles
                > > and a respirator.
                > > 2 - Wear gloves and other sensible protective equipment when
                > handling it.
                >
                > Agreed. I did the initial melting and pouring OUTSIDE. And wore
                > protection besides!
                >
                > > 3 - Wash carefully after handling it. and,
                > > 4 - For heavens sake clean up your mess.
                >
                > Of course. Why would you suggest I wouldn't have cleaned up?
                >
                > > Do some reading about the toxicity of lead, and about proper
                > handling of same. Working with lead is not beyond the means of a
                do
                > it yourselfer; If I needed something cast from lead, I'd go for
                it.
                > But the stuff is poisen, and should be treated accordingly.
                >
                >
                > Hmmm. Well, in it's solid form, lead must be relatively inert.
                > Granted, it's a danger when swallowed -- as when dabbling ducks
                pick
                > up lead shot from the lake bottom and it sits in their crops for a
                > time. But don't fishermen handle lead sinkers every day? I can't
                > imagine that they're in mortal danger (unless they pop the sinkers
                > down with their hangover aspirin or something).
                >
                > Sure lead is dangerous when melted and releases arsenic in gaseous
                > form. As a component in bottom paint it may be dangerous to marine
                > life. But I can't believe casual contact handling solid lead would
                > bring the sky to fall. IMHO.
                >
                > John
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