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Re: [Michalak] Re: Hopeful first time builder - AF4 Thoughts?

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  • Martin Houston
    What an outstanding adventure. You give us all hope. ________________________________ From: Rene Vidmer To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 27, 2012
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      What an outstanding adventure. You give us all hope.



      ________________________________
      From: Rene Vidmer <rvidmer@...>
      To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:18 AM
      Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Hopeful first time builder - AF4 Thoughts?



       

      http://www.renevidmer.com/boat.pdf

      Sent from my iPod



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • prairiedog2332
      Thanks for sharing that Rene. Any thoughts on a central skid/runner on these hulls? Here is how Bolger shows his version: http://instantboats.com/skiff18.htm
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 27, 2012
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        Thanks for sharing that Rene. Any thoughts on a central skid/runner on
        these hulls? Here is how Bolger shows his version:

        http://instantboats.com/skiff18.htm
        <http://instantboats.com/skiff18.htm>

        His comes in 2 lengths, 15'6" and 18' and another with a glass house
        added.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmgDOz8ozLs
        <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmgDOz8ozLs>

        And how it sounds when running:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ-yfOXDTeQ&feature=relmfu
        <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ-yfOXDTeQ&feature=relmfu>

        The builder Frank San Miguel has some great info on his website and
        blog, including his AF3 Cream Cheese.


        http://www.fsanmiguel.com/boat/index.html
        <http://www.fsanmiguel.com/boat/index.html>

        http://sail.fsanmiguel.com/ <http://sail.fsanmiguel.com/>

        Nels

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Rene Vidmer <rvidmer@...> wrote:
        >
        > http://www.renevidmer.com/boat.pdf
        >
        > Sent from my iPod
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • patrickofwellington
        Good Gravy, That is just Awesome.
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 28, 2012
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          Good Gravy, That is just Awesome.

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Rene Vidmer <rvidmer@...> wrote:
          >
          > http://www.renevidmer.com/boat.pdf
          >
          > Sent from my iPod
          >
        • Jim Borch
          Rene, that s one of the most inspiring things I ve ever read, and it speaks volumes to Jim Michalak s design.   I really appreciate all your guys input with
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 30, 2012
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            Rene, that's one of the most inspiring things I've ever read, and it speaks volumes to Jim Michalak's design.
             
            I really appreciate all your guys input with regards to the various versions of the AF4.
             
            I think what I'm leaning towards doing is building the AF4C. I know its definitely not the ideal choice for the chesapeake, but the open bay is somewhere I might find myself only once or twice in a year (its a good hour to the closest launch) whereas I have a 20hp restricted lake 20 minutes away, and 2 electric only lakes less than 10 minutes away (and the susquehanna river is 30 minutes away). I might hit some of the tidal rivers of the chesapeake fairly often, but I used to run those in a 15' Jon Boat with my Dad regularly, I'm confident the AF4C would do just fine. I'd love to do some boat camping, but I just don't think I'd be able to do it often enough to really properly make use of an onboard cabin, whereas I could use that fishing deck every time I go out.
             
            I also think that when I build it, I'll add the "planing shoe" to the bottom, built close to (if not identical to) the specs for the shoe on the bottom of Clamskiff. The only other real modification I think I might want to try is an engine box similar to that of SkiffAmerica to block out some of the noise of the outboard. That however would probably be a retrofit, because my motor is a tiller and in the interest of a quick straightforward build I'm going to leave it that way for a while.
             
            I think I need to build a shed before I try this, to clear some stuff out of my garage (lawnmower, wheelbarrow etc.). That should make it a lot easier for me to do this build over the winter, I hate cramped working conditions.
             
            Jim

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • prairiedog2332
            Jim, Great choice in my view if you avoid the big stuff. A few observations: I think the AF4C will take far less than half the time to build than the other
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 30, 2012
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              Jim,

              Great choice in my view if you avoid the big stuff.

              A few observations:

              I think the AF4C will take far less than half the time to build than the
              other versions and I am really a fan of the central shoe.

              Rene has designed his own bimini that can be folded forward to become a
              spray cover under power and then raised as sun and rain protection.
              Might work on the AF4C.

              Not sure of what the bylaws are where you are located but I bought one
              of these when it came on sale:

              http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/PortableShelters/PortableSh\
              eltersSpecialOrder/PRD~0371105P/AutoShelter+Instant+Garage%2C+10x20-ft+%\
              283x6m%29.jsp?locale=en
              <http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/PortableShelters/PortableS\
              heltersSpecialOrder/PRD~0371105P/AutoShelter+Instant+Garage%2C+10x20-ft+\
              %283x6m%29.jsp?locale=en>

              That is a Canadian link but versions are available everywhere. It can be
              erected as a storage shelter for lawnmowers and other stuff, freeing up
              space in the garage and once the boat is complete the boat and trailer
              can be backed inside and kept completley out of the weather. It can even
              be set up infront of the garage door to make space available for a
              longer boat build!

              Nels


              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Jim Borch <borchjb1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Rene, that's one of the most inspiring things I've ever read, and it
              speaks volumes to Jim Michalak's design.
              >
              > I really appreciate all your guys input with regards to the various
              versions of the AF4.
              >
              > I think what I'm leaning towards doing is building the AF4C. I know
              its definitely not the ideal choice for the chesapeake, but the open bay
              is somewhere I might find myself only once or twice in a year (its a
              good hour to the closest launch) whereas I have a 20hp restricted lake
              20 minutes away, and 2 electric only lakes less than 10 minutes away
              (and the susquehanna river is 30 minutes away). I might hit some of the
              tidal rivers of the chesapeake fairly often, but I used to run those in
              a 15' Jon Boat with my Dad regularly, I'm confident the AF4C would do
              just fine. I'd love to do some boat camping, but I just don't think I'd
              be able to do it often enough to really properly make use of an onboard
              cabin, whereas I could use that fishing deck every time I go out.
              >
              > I also think that when I build it, I'll add the "planing shoe" to the
              bottom, built close to (if not identical to) the specs for the shoe on
              the bottom of Clamskiff. The only other real modification I think I
              might want to try is an engine box similar to that of SkiffAmerica to
              block out some of the noise of the outboard. That however would probably
              be a retrofit, because my motor is a tiller and in the interest of a
              quick straightforward build I'm going to leave it that way for a while.
              >
              > I think I need to build a shed before I try this, to clear some stuff
              out of my garage (lawnmower, wheelbarrow etc.). That should make it a
              lot easier for me to do this build over the winter, I hate cramped
              working conditions.
              >
              > Jim
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Borch
              Nels - With those straight sides, I think you re right about the build time, that s an elegantly simple craft. I also think it is ideally suited to add on
              Message 6 of 18 , May 1, 2012
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                Nels - With those straight sides, I think you're right about the build time, that's an elegantly simple craft. I also think it is ideally suited to add on "stuff", maybe a center console or little raised poling platform in the rear...
                 
                I think it could be very interesting to create a CAD model of the AF4C, and run some Finite Element Analysis on it to see how the central shoe affects the rigidity & stresses. I think once I buy the plans I'll have to do that. Could also simulate the load condition of pounding through some heavier stuff & see if there's any areas that could benefit from extra beef.
                 
                I thought about one of those temporary covers, but I'd be concerned about the very strong winds that come through my community on a regular basis (whole community is build on a pretty exposed hillside, every month somebody loses siding & shingles). Plus the missus will be happier with a garden shed she can use too... so I'll probably just go that route.
                 


                ________________________________
                From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:35 PM
                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Hopeful first time builder - AF4 Thoughts?


                 

                Jim,

                Great choice in my view if you avoid the big stuff.

                A few observations:

                I think the AF4C will take far less than half the time to build than the
                other versions and I am really a fan of the central shoe.

                Rene has designed his own bimini that can be folded forward to become a
                spray cover under power and then raised as sun and rain protection.
                Might work on the AF4C.

                Not sure of what the bylaws are where you are located but I bought one
                of these when it came on sale:

                http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/PortableShelters/PortableSh\
                eltersSpecialOrder/PRD~0371105P/AutoShelter+Instant+Garage%2C+10x20-ft+%\
                283x6m%29.jsp?locale=en
                <http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/PortableShelters/PortableS\
                heltersSpecialOrder/PRD~0371105P/AutoShelter+Instant+Garage%2C+10x20-ft+\
                %283x6m%29.jsp?locale=en>

                That is a Canadian link but versions are available everywhere. It can be
                erected as a storage shelter for lawnmowers and other stuff, freeing up
                space in the garage and once the boat is complete the boat and trailer
                can be backed inside and kept completley out of the weather. It can even
                be set up infront of the garage door to make space available for a
                longer boat build!

                Nels

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Jim Borch <borchjb1@...> wrote:
                >
                > Rene, that's one of the most inspiring things I've ever read, and it
                speaks volumes to Jim Michalak's design.
                >
                > I really appreciate all your guys input with regards to the various
                versions of the AF4.
                >
                > I think what I'm leaning towards doing is building the AF4C. I know
                its definitely not the ideal choice for the chesapeake, but the open bay
                is somewhere I might find myself only once or twice in a year (its a
                good hour to the closest launch) whereas I have a 20hp restricted lake
                20 minutes away, and 2 electric only lakes less than 10 minutes away
                (and the susquehanna river is 30 minutes away). I might hit some of the
                tidal rivers of the chesapeake fairly often, but I used to run those in
                a 15' Jon Boat with my Dad regularly, I'm confident the AF4C would do
                just fine. I'd love to do some boat camping, but I just don't think I'd
                be able to do it often enough to really properly make use of an onboard
                cabin, whereas I could use that fishing deck every time I go out.
                >
                > I also think that when I build it, I'll add the "planing shoe" to the
                bottom, built close to (if not identical to) the specs for the shoe on
                the bottom of Clamskiff. The only other real modification I think I
                might want to try is an engine box similar to that of SkiffAmerica to
                block out some of the noise of the outboard. That however would probably
                be a retrofit, because my motor is a tiller and in the interest of a
                quick straightforward build I'm going to leave it that way for a while.
                >
                > I think I need to build a shed before I try this, to clear some stuff
                out of my garage (lawnmower, wheelbarrow etc.). That should make it a
                lot easier for me to do this build over the winter, I hate cramped
                working conditions.
                >
                > Jim
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bob Throne
                Don t recall if you ve mentioned where you re from Jim, but your sailing waters sound much like mine - Lake Nockamixon, PA (20hp), the Delaware River, and the
                Message 7 of 18 , May 1, 2012
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                  Don't recall if you've mentioned where you're from Jim, but your sailing waters sound much like mine - Lake Nockamixon, PA (20hp), the Delaware River, and the upper Chesapeake. Give a thought to coming to the Eastern Messabout June 1-2-3 at Elk Neck State Park, MD

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EasternMessabout/

                  I'll leave the advice on boat selection to the rest, except to say that Jim's multi-chine designs perform really well. My self designed 15' Wanderer uses a similar hull and handles well in flat or a chop up to 2'. My motor is only a 4hp so I've never planed, but I bet I will when I put a 15 or 20 on it.

                  Good luck and keep us psoted.

                  Bob Throne

                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Jim Borch <borchjb1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Rene, that's one of the most inspiring things I've ever read, and it speaks volumes to Jim Michalak's design.
                  >  
                  > I really appreciate all your guys input with regards to the various versions of the AF4.
                  >  
                  > I think what I'm leaning towards doing is building the AF4C. I know its definitely not the ideal choice for the chesapeake, but the open bay is somewhere I might find myself only once or twice in a year (its a good hour to the closest launch) whereas I have a 20hp restricted lake 20 minutes away, and 2 electric only lakes less than 10 minutes away (and the susquehanna river is 30 minutes away). I might hit some of the tidal rivers of the chesapeake fairly often, but I used to run those in a 15' Jon Boat with my Dad regularly, I'm confident the AF4C would do just fine. I'd love to do some boat camping, but I just don't think I'd be able to do it often enough to really properly make use of an onboard cabin, whereas I could use that fishing deck every time I go out.
                  >  
                  > I also think that when I build it, I'll add the "planing shoe" to the bottom, built close to (if not identical to) the specs for the shoe on the bottom of Clamskiff. The only other real modification I think I might want to try is an engine box similar to that of SkiffAmerica to block out some of the noise of the outboard. That however would probably be a retrofit, because my motor is a tiller and in the interest of a quick straightforward build I'm going to leave it that way for a while.
                  >  
                  > I think I need to build a shed before I try this, to clear some stuff out of my garage (lawnmower, wheelbarrow etc.). That should make it a lot easier for me to do this build over the winter, I hate cramped working conditions.
                  >  
                  > Jim
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • prairiedog2332
                  Another option - if considering a multi-chine - is Dani Jay. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/dani_jay/index.htm
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 1, 2012
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                    Another option - if considering a multi-chine - is Dani Jay.

                    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/dani_jay/index.htm
                    <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/dani_jay/index.htm>

                    I would think it could handle some pretty big waves and surf with
                    aplomb. It also has the motor in a well that could easily be covered
                    over and have a central remote control consol added. The forward decking
                    could be lower to provide a casting platform.

                    Much more compicated to build than the AF4C however.

                    Nels


                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Throne" <revBob87@...> wrote:
                    > I'll leave the advice on boat selection to the rest, except to say
                    that Jim's multi-chine designs perform really well. My self designed 15'
                    Wanderer uses a similar hull and handles well in flat or a chop up to
                    2'. My motor is only a 4hp so I've never planed, but I bet I will when I
                    put a 15 or 20 on it.
                    >
                    > Good luck and keep us psoted.
                    >
                    > Bob Throne




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jim Borch
                    Hey Bob   I m just outside of York PA, about 1/2 hour south of Harrisburg. I m a former Maryland boy (moved to PA because house prices are so much lower
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 2, 2012
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                      Hey Bob
                       
                      I'm just outside of York PA, about 1/2 hour south of Harrisburg. I'm a former Maryland boy (moved to PA because house prices are so much lower here, but still work in MD just north of Baltimore), so I'm familiar with Elk Neck. I would love to come check out the messabout if I can, although that weekend I think I'm going to be going on a bachelor party/camping trip for one of my best friends that's getting married (to my sister actually) later in June, so I'll have to see how that works out first.
                       
                      I do like the looks of those multi chine designs, I was actually considering one earlier on (the Dorado, great looking boat), but for now I'm very drawn to the simplicity of the flat bottom sharpie, seems like a whole lot of bang for the buck. But I very much doubt this will be my only foray into boatbuilding, so maybe in a few years...
                       
                      -Jim
                       
                       

                      ________________________________
                      From: Bob Throne <revBob87@...>
                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 2:26 PM
                      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Hopeful first time builder - AF4 Thoughts?


                       
                      Don't recall if you've mentioned where you're from Jim, but your sailing waters sound much like mine - Lake Nockamixon, PA (20hp), the Delaware River, and the upper Chesapeake. Give a thought to coming to the Eastern Messabout June 1-2-3 at Elk Neck State Park, MD

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EasternMessabout/

                      I'll leave the advice on boat selection to the rest, except to say that Jim's multi-chine designs perform really well. My self designed 15' Wanderer uses a similar hull and handles well in flat or a chop up to 2'. My motor is only a 4hp so I've never planed, but I bet I will when I put a 15 or 20 on it.

                      Good luck and keep us psoted.

                      Bob Throne

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Jim Borch <borchjb1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Rene, that's one of the most inspiring things I've ever read, and it speaks volumes to Jim Michalak's design.
                      >  
                      > I really appreciate all your guys input with regards to the various versions of the AF4.
                      >  
                      > I think what I'm leaning towards doing is building the AF4C. I know its definitely not the ideal choice for the chesapeake, but the open bay is somewhere I might find myself only once or twice in a year (its a good hour to the closest launch) whereas I have a 20hp restricted lake 20 minutes away, and 2 electric only lakes less than 10 minutes away (and the susquehanna river is 30 minutes away). I might hit some of the tidal rivers of the chesapeake fairly often, but I used to run those in a 15' Jon Boat with my Dad regularly, I'm confident the AF4C would do just fine. I'd love to do some boat camping, but I just don't think I'd be able to do it often enough to really properly make use of an onboard cabin, whereas I could use that fishing deck every time I go out.
                      >  
                      > I also think that when I build it, I'll add the "planing shoe" to the bottom, built close to (if not identical to) the specs for the shoe on the bottom of Clamskiff. The only other real modification I think I might want to try is an engine box similar to that of SkiffAmerica to block out some of the noise of the outboard. That however would probably be a retrofit, because my motor is a tiller and in the interest of a quick straightforward build I'm going to leave it that way for a while.
                      >  
                      > I think I need to build a shed before I try this, to clear some stuff out of my garage (lawnmower, wheelbarrow etc.). That should make it a lot easier for me to do this build over the winter, I hate cramped working conditions.
                      >  
                      > Jim
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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