Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: WWP-15 version of AF3 what do you think

Expand Messages
  • John Nystrom
    Nels, I have Tortoise plans, but have built a PD Racer to get a bit more boat (sails two comfortably).  Have you considered a PDR?  I went with a lug sail,
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 8, 2012
      Nels,
      I have Tortoise plans, but have built a PD Racer to get a bit more boat (sails two comfortably).  Have you considered a PDR?  I went with a lug sail, but several friends are lateen, and their boats sail well.  The oldest boat in the class, hull #2, has a very old Sunfish rig with a polytarp, home made sail.  By the way all, I have tried out several small cruisers, only slightly larger than the WWP15, and they have all been too small, so I haven't really considered the WWP, though I really like what I read about the lateen converted boats.  If your slot-top and leeboard conversion works, I will have to reconsider converting an older WWP.
      John Nystrom
      PDR John Duck #134


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • prairiedog2332
      These are very small kids (both under 10 girls) and when they saw a video of a Tortoise they decided that is what they wanted. Plus the smaller hulls will fit
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 8, 2012
        These are very small kids (both under 10 girls) and when they saw a
        video of a Tortoise they decided that is what they wanted. Plus the
        smaller hulls will fit in the back of our minivans easier than a PDR. As
        does Tween. Light to car-top as well.

        Instead of the straddle seat I'm thinking of small air boxes each side
        using the seat bottom template.

        I would like to try a "grout" to join the two Tortoise together as well.

        Nels


        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, John Nystrom <johnduck134@...> wrote:
        >
        > Nels,
        > I have Tortoise plans, but have built a PD Racer to get a bit more
        boat (sails two comfortably). Have you considered a PDR? I went with a
        lug sail, but several friends are lateen, and their boats sail well.
        The oldest boat in the class, hull #2, has a very old Sunfish rig with a
        polytarp, home made sail. By the way all, I have tried out several
        small cruisers, only slightly larger than the WWP15, and they have all
        been too small, so I haven't really considered the WWP, though I really
        like what I read about the lateen converted boats. If your slot-top and
        leeboard conversion works, I will have to reconsider converting an older
        WWP.
        > John Nystrom
        > PDR John Duck #134
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • daschultz2000
        ... Fully agree w this. IMO lee boards will be fine. One might consider making them so each offers as much area below the hull as the current center board.
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 8, 2012
          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
          >
          > One issue I would have is converting to leeboards though. If they don't
          > work then you have probably ruined both the sailing ability and the
          > resale value. You could try one Michalak board as a trial and leave the
          > centerboard in first...

          Fully agree w' this. IMO lee boards will be fine. One might consider making them so each offers as much area below the hull as the current center board. I also like Nels' thought about the dual rudders.
        • windgypsy34
          I hate to throw a bucket of cold water, but... We own both a 1981 WWP and a 17 MikesBoat yawl with Jim s single leeboard on the starboard side. The board
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 8, 2012
            I hate to throw a bucket of cold water, but... We own both a 1981 WWP and a 17' MikesBoat yawl with Jim's single leeboard on the starboard side. The board works well, but exerts a wracking force on the hull that the WWP hull lamination was not built to handle. Our yawl was built to Jim's specs and more including white oak and heart cypress to handle the load of the board. It is uncanny to note the strain that the board develops on either tack in a stiff wind. While the Michalak hull handles it with ease, I can picture the WWP hull flexing seriously. I am a huge fan of the WWP, and also like the modifications that Nels mentioned, i.e. Goose's article in SCA. Stanley Smith created a real game changer with the WWP, but I would be slow the make serious modifications. All of course IMHO ;) Dave Chase (pictures of our yawl can be found in the pictures section under the heading of "MikesBoat yawl)

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "daschultz2000" <daschultz8275@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@> wrote:
            > >
            > > One issue I would have is converting to leeboards though. If they don't
            > > work then you have probably ruined both the sailing ability and the
            > > resale value. You could try one Michalak board as a trial and leave the
            > > centerboard in first...
            >
            > Fully agree w' this. IMO lee boards will be fine. One might consider making them so each offers as much area below the hull as the current center board. I also like Nels' thought about the dual rudders.
            >
          • John Boy
            This might be  a set-out but IMHO opinion, I d sell the WWP and just build the AF3.  You d get a better sense of satisfaction from actually building it and
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 8, 2012
              This might be  a set-out but IMHO opinion, I'd sell the WWP and just build the AF3.  You'd get a better sense of satisfaction from actually building it and you won't jack up a perfectly good sailboat in the process.
              John Boy   
               



              You can trust me, I have a degree in science...




              ________________________________
              From: daschultz2000 <daschultz8275@...>
              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 4:06 PM
              Subject: [Michalak] Re: WWP-15 version of AF3 what do you think


               


              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
              >
              > One issue I would have is converting to leeboards though. If they don't
              > work then you have probably ruined both the sailing ability and the
              > resale value. You could try one Michalak board as a trial and leave the
              > centerboard in first...

              Fully agree w' this. IMO lee boards will be fine. One might consider making them so each offers as much area below the hull as the current center board. I also like Nels' thought about the dual rudders.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Boy
              set-out  Step-out, DOH!   You can trust me, I have a degree in science... ________________________________ From: John Boy To:
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 8, 2012
                set-out 

                Step-out, DOH!

                 



                You can trust me, I have a degree in science...




                ________________________________
                From: John Boy <t1ro2003@...>
                To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 5:46 PM
                Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: WWP-15 version of AF3 what do you think


                 
                This might be  a set-out but IMHO opinion, I'd sell the WWP and just build the AF3.  You'd get a better sense of satisfaction from actually building it and you won't jack up a perfectly good sailboat in the process.
                John Boy   
                 

                You can trust me, I have a degree in science...

                ________________________________
                From: daschultz2000 <daschultz8275@...>
                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 4:06 PM
                Subject: [Michalak] Re: WWP-15 version of AF3 what do you think


                 

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                >
                > One issue I would have is converting to leeboards though. If they don't
                > work then you have probably ruined both the sailing ability and the
                > resale value. You could try one Michalak board as a trial and leave the
                > centerboard in first...

                Fully agree w' this. IMO lee boards will be fine. One might consider making them so each offers as much area below the hull as the current center board. I also like Nels' thought about the dual rudders.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • DBester
                Dave ...... thanks for the comments .... you bring up a very valid concern. Have AF3 plans on order to see exactly the structure called for on the plans. Was
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 9, 2012
                  Dave ...... thanks for the comments .... you bring up a very valid
                  concern. Have AF3 plans on order to see exactly the structure called for
                  on the plans. Was thinking I would probably need to add strength to the
                  hull by laminating a built up plywood panel (12" x 18" or 24") to inside
                  of hull sides ... but want to see Jim's plans. Do you think something of
                  this sort would help/solve the potential problem.

                  Thanks.

                  Abuelo

                  On 4/8/2012 5:36 PM, windgypsy34 wrote:
                  > I hate to throw a bucket of cold water, but... We own both a 1981 WWP and a 17' MikesBoat yawl with Jim's single leeboard on the starboard side. The board works well, but exerts a wracking force on the hull that the WWP hull lamination was not built to handle. Our yawl was built to Jim's specs and more including white oak and heart cypress to handle the load of the board. It is uncanny to note the strain that the board develops on either tack in a stiff wind. While the Michalak hull handles it with ease, I can picture the WWP hull flexing seriously. I am a huge fan of the WWP, and also like the modifications that Nels mentioned, i.e. Goose's article in SCA. Stanley Smith created a real game changer with the WWP, but I would be slow the make serious modifications. All of course IMHO ;) Dave Chase (pictures of our yawl can be found in the pictures section under the heading of "MikesBoat yawl)
                  >
                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "daschultz2000"<daschultz8275@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332"<nelsarv@> wrote:
                  >>> One issue I would have is converting to leeboards though. If they don't
                  >>> work then you have probably ruined both the sailing ability and the
                  >>> resale value. You could try one Michalak board as a trial and leave the
                  >>> centerboard in first...
                  >> Fully agree w' this. IMO lee boards will be fine. One might consider making them so each offers as much area below the hull as the current center board. I also like Nels' thought about the dual rudders.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • prairiedog2332
                  The problem if I understand it is to get rid of the centerboard case on the centerline to clear more open space in the cabin? Bolger discovered that moving
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 9, 2012
                    The "problem" if I understand it is to get rid of the centerboard case
                    on the centerline to clear more open space in the cabin?

                    Bolger discovered that moving the board over to one side does not affect
                    the sailing ability noticeably and Michalak confirms that premise in his
                    designs and even went further and moved the board outside the hull
                    altogether, thus freeing the entire cabin and not having to worry about
                    a case spitting inside the cabin, or cutting a slot for it in the hull.

                    So I think this might be done in a WWP 14. The fact that the topsides
                    are pretty much vertical makes it seem possible. It is important to
                    mount the board at the widest beam location and the board must be
                    arranged so it is parallel to the flow of water past the hull at that
                    point to prevent eddies that can slow the boat.

                    A solid backing plate inside the hull might prevent wracking strain on
                    the hull from the board but I would consider using a hardwood brace
                    rather than plywood as noted in wind gypsy's post. Perhaps a 2x6 tapered
                    so the inside face is vertical to attach the pivot bolt backed with
                    heavy washer? You also need a horizontal brace outside the hull through
                    which the pivot bolt goes through so the board stands vertical otherwise
                    it might jam. And another brace at the gunwale with a slot in it for the
                    top of the board.

                    The area of the leeboard below the hull should likely match the area of
                    original centerboard when it is fully lowered. That also depends on the
                    area of the sail you are now using. But I would go with the same area as
                    the original board as it can be reduced in area easier than enlarged.

                    The origingal WWP also had a small mizzen sail to tweak for balance and
                    to hold it into the wind when reefing or riding out a storm but that
                    is another story:-)

                    Nels



                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, DBester <davbstr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dave ...... thanks for the comments .... you bring up a very valid
                    > concern. Have AF3 plans on order to see exactly the structure called
                    for
                    > on the plans. Was thinking I would probably need to add strength to
                    the
                    > hull by laminating a built up plywood panel (12" x 18" or 24") to
                    inside
                    > of hull sides ... but want to see Jim's plans. Do you think something
                    of
                    > this sort would help/solve the potential problem.
                    >
                    > Thanks.
                    >
                  • windgypsy34
                    Abuelo, The short answer is that I am not sure. In Jim M s designs the single lee board (or - more correctly - off-center, center board since it works as both
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 9, 2012
                      Abuelo,
                      The short answer is that I am not sure. In Jim M's designs the single lee board (or - more correctly - off-center, center board since it works as both a lee and windward side foil) is assumed from the beginning of the design. The WWP was originally designed for sheet ply construction with flat hull sections that have now been converted to fiberglas. I am concerned that a significant amount of bracing MAY be needed to handle the strain of a lee board, especially since there are little or no compound curved surfaces in the hull sides to help build and maintain rigidity.

                      The Michalak designs work quite well as long as you do not need the most possible amount of windward performance. Once cracked off a bit, the balanced lug main can be verrrry powerful. Additionally, Chuck L. of DUCKWORKS detailed a great set of lazy jacks that we added last year. They control the descent of the yard when dropping the main and also contain the sail into a neat package ready for ties. We are also fans of Jim's yawl rigs and would encourage their use whenever possible. I know that there have been numerous comments regarding the yawl rigs on this forum, but you really need to sail one to experience the versatility of the rig. The rig really helps the boat to sail backwards if needed as well as providing a very secure way to heave to. Additionally, the mizzen alone will take the boat off wind in challenging conditions as demonstrated by both Chuck L. and Bill Moffitt in various runnings of the Texas 200 and the OBX130 that I attended in 2010.

                      Good luck in your quest. Time on the water to me is the most important goal in all of our discussions.
                      Dave Chase, Holland, Michigan

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, DBester <davbstr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dave ...... thanks for the comments .... you bring up a very valid
                      > concern. Have AF3 plans on order to see exactly the structure called for
                      > on the plans. Was thinking I would probably need to add strength to the
                      > hull by laminating a built up plywood panel (12" x 18" or 24") to inside
                      > of hull sides ... but want to see Jim's plans. Do you think something of
                      > this sort would help/solve the potential problem.
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > Abuelo
                      >
                      > On 4/8/2012 5:36 PM, windgypsy34 wrote:
                      > > I hate to throw a bucket of cold water, but... We own both a 1981 WWP and a 17' MikesBoat yawl with Jim's single leeboard on the starboard side. The board works well, but exerts a wracking force on the hull that the WWP hull lamination was not built to handle. Our yawl was built to Jim's specs and more including white oak and heart cypress to handle the load of the board. It is uncanny to note the strain that the board develops on either tack in a stiff wind. While the Michalak hull handles it with ease, I can picture the WWP hull flexing seriously. I am a huge fan of the WWP, and also like the modifications that Nels mentioned, i.e. Goose's article in SCA. Stanley Smith created a real game changer with the WWP, but I would be slow the make serious modifications. All of course IMHO ;) Dave Chase (pictures of our yawl can be found in the pictures section under the heading of "MikesBoat yawl)
                      > >
                      > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "daschultz2000"<daschultz8275@> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332"<nelsarv@> wrote:
                      > >>> One issue I would have is converting to leeboards though. If they don't
                      > >>> work then you have probably ruined both the sailing ability and the
                      > >>> resale value. You could try one Michalak board as a trial and leave the
                      > >>> centerboard in first...
                      > >> Fully agree w' this. IMO lee boards will be fine. One might consider making them so each offers as much area below the hull as the current center board. I also like Nels' thought about the dual rudders.
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • DBester
                      Thanks Nels ....... don t believe I ever saw a WWP-15 with a mizzen. BTW Nels ... where are you located? Abuelo ... [Non-text portions of this message have
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 9, 2012
                        Thanks Nels ....... don't believe I ever saw a WWP-15 with a mizzen.

                        BTW Nels ... where are you located?

                        Abuelo

                        On 4/9/2012 4:11 PM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
                        > The "problem" if I understand it is to get rid of the centerboard case
                        > on the centerline to clear more open space in the cabin?
                        >
                        > Bolger discovered that moving the board over to one side does not affect
                        > the sailing ability noticeably and Michalak confirms that premise in his
                        > designs and even went further and moved the board outside the hull
                        > altogether, thus freeing the entire cabin and not having to worry about
                        > a case spitting inside the cabin, or cutting a slot for it in the hull.
                        >
                        > So I think this might be done in a WWP 14. The fact that the topsides
                        > are pretty much vertical makes it seem possible. It is important to
                        > mount the board at the widest beam location and the board must be
                        > arranged so it is parallel to the flow of water past the hull at that
                        > point to prevent eddies that can slow the boat.
                        >
                        > A solid backing plate inside the hull might prevent wracking strain on
                        > the hull from the board but I would consider using a hardwood brace
                        > rather than plywood as noted in wind gypsy's post. Perhaps a 2x6 tapered
                        > so the inside face is vertical to attach the pivot bolt backed with
                        > heavy washer? You also need a horizontal brace outside the hull through
                        > which the pivot bolt goes through so the board stands vertical otherwise
                        > it might jam. And another brace at the gunwale with a slot in it for the
                        > top of the board.
                        >
                        > The area of the leeboard below the hull should likely match the area of
                        > original centerboard when it is fully lowered. That also depends on the
                        > area of the sail you are now using. But I would go with the same area as
                        > the original board as it can be reduced in area easier than enlarged.
                        >
                        > The origingal WWP also had a small mizzen sail to tweak for balance and
                        > to hold it into the wind when reefing or riding out a storm but that
                        > is another story:-)
                        >
                        > Nels
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, DBester<davbstr@...> wrote:
                        >> Dave ...... thanks for the comments .... you bring up a very valid
                        >> concern. Have AF3 plans on order to see exactly the structure called
                        > for
                        >> on the plans. Was thinking I would probably need to add strength to
                        > the
                        >> hull by laminating a built up plywood panel (12" x 18" or 24") to
                        > inside
                        >> of hull sides ... but want to see Jim's plans. Do you think something
                        > of
                        >> this sort would help/solve the potential problem.
                        >>
                        >> Thanks.
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • prairiedog2332
                        If you look in the files section there is a folder entitled Wes Wight Potter History;
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 9, 2012
                          If you look in the files section there is a folder entitled Wes Wight
                          Potter History;

                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/West%20Wight%20Potter%20Hi\
                          story%20/
                          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/West%20Wight%20Potter%20Hi\
                          story%20/> >

                          There is a sketch showing the original sail plan with the mizzen added.
                          I always admired the design altho I have never seen one and certainly
                          would not go out to sea in one!

                          I live near an inland sailing area called the Shuswap Lakes in BC
                          Canada. You?

                          http://www.shuswaptourism.ca/discover/north-shuswap/map
                          <http://www.shuswaptourism.ca/discover/north-shuswap/map>

                          Nels






                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, DBester <davbstr@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks Nels ....... don't believe I ever saw a WWP-15 with a mizzen.
                          >
                          > BTW Nels ... where are you located?
                          >
                          > Abuelo
                          >
                          > On 4/9/2012 4:11 PM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
                          > > The "problem" if I understand it is to get rid of the centerboard
                          case
                          > > on the centerline to clear more open space in the cabin?
                          > >
                          > > Bolger discovered that moving the board over to one side does not
                          affect
                          > > the sailing ability noticeably and Michalak confirms that premise in
                          his
                          > > designs and even went further and moved the board outside the hull
                          > > altogether, thus freeing the entire cabin and not having to worry
                          about
                          > > a case spitting inside the cabin, or cutting a slot for it in the
                          hull.
                          > >
                          > > So I think this might be done in a WWP 14. The fact that the
                          topsides
                          > > are pretty much vertical makes it seem possible. It is important to
                          > > mount the board at the widest beam location and the board must be
                          > > arranged so it is parallel to the flow of water past the hull at
                          that
                          > > point to prevent eddies that can slow the boat.
                          > >
                          > > A solid backing plate inside the hull might prevent wracking strain
                          on
                          > > the hull from the board but I would consider using a hardwood brace
                          > > rather than plywood as noted in wind gypsy's post. Perhaps a 2x6
                          tapered
                          > > so the inside face is vertical to attach the pivot bolt backed with
                          > > heavy washer? You also need a horizontal brace outside the hull
                          through
                          > > which the pivot bolt goes through so the board stands vertical
                          otherwise
                          > > it might jam. And another brace at the gunwale with a slot in it for
                          the
                          > > top of the board.
                          > >
                          > > The area of the leeboard below the hull should likely match the area
                          of
                          > > original centerboard when it is fully lowered. That also depends on
                          the
                          > > area of the sail you are now using. But I would go with the same
                          area as
                          > > the original board as it can be reduced in area easier than
                          enlarged.
                          > >
                          > > The origingal WWP also had a small mizzen sail to tweak for balance
                          and
                          > > to hold it into the wind when reefing or riding out a storm but that
                          > > is another story:-)
                          > >
                          > > Nels
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, DBesterdavbstr@ wrote:
                          > >> Dave ...... thanks for the comments .... you bring up a very valid
                          > >> concern. Have AF3 plans on order to see exactly the structure
                          called
                          > > for
                          > >> on the plans. Was thinking I would probably need to add strength to
                          > > the
                          > >> hull by laminating a built up plywood panel (12" x 18" or 24") to
                          > > inside
                          > >> of hull sides ... but want to see Jim's plans. Do you think
                          something
                          > > of
                          > >> this sort would help/solve the potential problem.
                          > >>
                          > >> Thanks.
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Lenny
                          I don t know where you are located but if you want to sell the WWP and build the AF3/4, let me know as I will probably be buying one to replace the one I m
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 14, 2012
                            I don't know where you are located but if you want to sell the WWP and build the AF3/4, let me know as I will probably be buying one to replace the one I'm selling here at the end of this job it looks like.
                            Lenny

                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, davbstr@... wrote:
                            >
                            > Have a 30+ year old WWP-15 (West Wight Potter) which for me has a couple of areas where some improvement could be made ....
                            >
                            > My perceived problems with the WWP-15 at this point in my life (I'm 73 yrs old) are 1)Low height of cabin, 2)Cabin space taken up by swing center board and trunk and 3)Need for a easier to handle sail rig.
                            >
                            > Have addressed the sail rig by converting to a un-stayed Lateen Sail Rig.
                            >
                            > While making the change in sail rig came across the AF3/AF4 designs. Now thinking that 1)Adding a "slot top" to the cabin, 2)removing swing center board and trunk and 3)and replacing center board with leeboard(s). My thinking is these changes will turn my WWP-15 into a bit smaller version of the AF3 and make it a better boat for an "Old Codger" like me.
                            >
                            > Wondering if anyone who might have knowledge/experience with both of these boats might have some thoughts on this conversion.
                            >
                            > Thanks.
                            >
                          • DBester
                            Lenny ......... sounds like an idea to consider ...... where are you located? Dave ================================================== ... [Non-text portions of
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 15, 2012
                              Lenny ......... sounds like an idea to consider ...... where are you
                              located?

                              Dave
                              ==================================================

                              On 4/14/2012 7:54 PM, Lenny wrote:
                              > I don't know where you are located but if you want to sell the WWP and build the AF3/4, let me know as I will probably be buying one to replace the one I'm selling here at the end of this job it looks like.
                              > Lenny
                              >
                              > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, davbstr@... wrote:
                              >> Have a 30+ year old WWP-15 (West Wight Potter) which for me has a couple of areas where some improvement could be made ....
                              >>
                              >> My perceived problems with the WWP-15 at this point in my life (I'm 73 yrs old) are 1)Low height of cabin, 2)Cabin space taken up by swing center board and trunk and 3)Need for a easier to handle sail rig.
                              >>
                              >> Have addressed the sail rig by converting to a un-stayed Lateen Sail Rig.
                              >>
                              >> While making the change in sail rig came across the AF3/AF4 designs. Now thinking that 1)Adding a "slot top" to the cabin, 2)removing swing center board and trunk and 3)and replacing center board with leeboard(s). My thinking is these changes will turn my WWP-15 into a bit smaller version of the AF3 and make it a better boat for an "Old Codger" like me.
                              >>
                              >> Wondering if anyone who might have knowledge/experience with both of these boats might have some thoughts on this conversion.
                              >>
                              >> Thanks.
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John Nystrom
                              The two tortoise(s?) with a grout to connect sounds wonderful.  Do post pictures on how you connect the two boats.  And of course, pictures of what ever mods
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 16, 2012
                                The two tortoise(s?) with a grout to connect sounds wonderful.  Do post pictures on how you connect the two boats.  And of course, pictures of what ever mods you finally do to the WWP15.  Of all the shallow water, small cruisers, the WWP15 may be the most numerous, and so easiest to get the basic boat to modify.
                                John Nystrom
                                JohnDuck #134 (PDR)


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • john colley
                                The WP15 looks very much like the hartleyts16,and as an owner,,,I know where you are coming from.There is not much head room in the cabin.   There is magic
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 16, 2012
                                  The WP15 looks very much like the hartleyts16,and as an owner,,,I know where you are coming from.There is not much head room in the cabin.

                                   
                                  "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
                                  -Sigurd Olson


                                  ________________________________
                                  From: DBester <davbstr@...>
                                  To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sunday, 15 April 2012 10:01 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: WWP-15 version of AF3 what do you think


                                   
                                  Lenny ......... sounds like an idea to consider ...... where are you
                                  located?

                                  Dave
                                  ==================================================

                                  On 4/14/2012 7:54 PM, Lenny wrote:
                                  > I don't know where you are located but if you want to sell the WWP and build the AF3/4, let me know as I will probably be buying one to replace the one I'm selling here at the end of this job it looks like.
                                  > Lenny
                                  >
                                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, davbstr@... wrote:
                                  >> Have a 30+ year old WWP-15 (West Wight Potter) which for me has a couple of areas where some improvement could be made ....
                                  >>
                                  >> My perceived problems with the WWP-15 at this point in my life (I'm 73 yrs old) are 1)Low height of cabin, 2)Cabin space taken up by swing center board and trunk and 3)Need for a easier to handle sail rig.
                                  >>
                                  >> Have addressed the sail rig by converting to a un-stayed Lateen Sail Rig.
                                  >>
                                  >> While making the change in sail rig came across the AF3/AF4 designs. Now thinking that 1)Adding a "slot top" to the cabin, 2)removing swing center board and trunk and 3)and replacing center board with leeboard(s). My thinking is these changes will turn my WWP-15 into a bit smaller version of the AF3 and make it a better boat for an "Old Codger" like me.
                                  >>
                                  >> Wondering if anyone who might have knowledge/experience with both of these boats might have some thoughts on this conversion.
                                  >>
                                  >> Thanks.
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • prairiedog2332
                                  John I am looking at the Tortoise design (Gonna call it a Turtle though I think.) But the WWP mod discussion was from another member. The grout connector is a
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 18, 2012
                                    John

                                    I am looking at the Tortoise design (Gonna call it a Turtle though I
                                    think.) But the WWP mod discussion was from another member.

                                    The grout connector is a bit trickier as the bow is sloped further
                                    forward than the Brick. The connections not fully decided yet. Same as
                                    the Brick on the sides though. Thinking of adding a bottom runner 11/2"
                                    square down the center of the hulls and an extension each end of the
                                    connector to slot over the runner. Another idea with clamp-on gunnel
                                    extensions off the connector - can double as carry handles.

                                    I am going to try a couple things with each hull. One an off-set mast
                                    and rudder and the other on center. Bigger rudder and sail on the rear
                                    hull. Larger lifting leeboard on the connector than the original off-set
                                    daggerboards when sailed separated. Both Michalak style. Overall length
                                    about 17' or so in schooner config.

                                    Nels


                                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, John Nystrom <johnduck134@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > The two tortoise(s?) with a grout to connect sounds wonderful. Do
                                    post pictures on how you connect the two boats. And of course, pictures
                                    of what ever mods you finally do to the WWP15. Of all the shallow
                                    water, small cruisers, the WWP15 may be the most numerous, and so
                                    easiest to get the basic boat to modify.
                                    > John Nystrom
                                    > JohnDuck #134 (PDR)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.