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Lower Leeboard Guard

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  • prairiedog2332
    I have several (older) Michalak plans, but there seems to be not a lot of detail on how to attach the lower leeboard guard on any of them. His build book
    Message 1 of 28 , Feb 14, 2012
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      I have several (older) Michalak plans, but there seems to be not a lot
      of detail on how to attach the lower leeboard guard on any of them. His
      build book simply says "glue and screw the lower leeboard guard into
      position". With a hull that calls for 1/4" topsides like Jukebox3 it
      seems to me there should maybe be a backing plate inside the hull or
      something? The upper guard calls for through bolting through the wales
      and I expect that one takes more flexing force when sailing, than the
      lower one which is mainly a brace. So maybe not to worry about it too
      much?

      Also most call for the leeboard pivot bolt going right through the hull
      and tightened down inside. To me that seems a spot were moisture might
      seep into the topside plywood hole. On JB3 it calls for a square notch
      cut inside the guard and the pivot bolt not going through the hull but
      the nut snugged down in the notch. So to me a better idea. But again I
      wonder if an inner backing plate would be advisable - maybe even using
      lag screws with washers to secure the guard solidly.

      With a hull like Hapscut with a lot of flare the guard must be quite
      wide so wondering what it calls for?

      Nels
    • captreed@sbcglobal.net
      Hi Nels, The lower leeboard area does get a lot of stress. The upper part is supported by the gunwale and is OK. On my Piccup Pram the fiberglass tape
      Message 2 of 28 , Feb 15, 2012
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        Hi Nels,

        The lower leeboard area does get a lot of stress. The upper part is supported by the gunwale and is OK. On my Piccup Pram the fiberglass tape adjacent to the leeboard guard started cracking. About 5 years ago I added layers of tape to the seam at that point until the seam was 3/16" high for about 2 feet along. I can still see the side flexing there but the seam is secure.

        On my JB Jr I backed the 1/4" side with a piece of 3/8" plywood, a piece about 10" X 48" right where the lower leeboard guard bolts through in to the cabin. I don't get any flexing there.

        Reed
        Ventura, CA
      • jhargrovewright2@juno.com
        Nels,I built a Laguna but removed the center frame which also was the attachment point of the leeboard. To replace that major structural element, attachment
        Message 3 of 28 , Feb 16, 2012
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          Nels,I built a Laguna but removed the center frame which also was the attachment point of the leeboard. To replace that major structural element, attachment point I backed the 1/4" with 3/8" on the inside from gunwale to chine, epoxied. The 2x guard was also screwed and glued to the outside with fg tape on the top and bottom. I put it under a lot of strain and several hundred miles of water before it burned. Loved that boat. I never noticed any flexing.

          ---------- Original Message ----------
          From: "captreed@..." <captreed@...>
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard
          Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:25:57 -0000


          <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
          Hi Nels,

          The lower leeboard area does get a lot of stress. The upper part is supported by the gunwale and is OK. On my Piccup Pram the fiberglass tape adjacent to the leeboard guard started cracking. About 5 years ago I added layers of tape to the seam at that point until the seam was 3/16" high for about 2 feet along. I can still see the side flexing there but the seam is secure.

          On my JB Jr I backed the 1/4" side with a piece of 3/8" plywood, a piece about 10" X 48" right where the lower leeboard guard bolts through in to the cabin. I don't get any flexing there.

          Reed
          Ventura, CA







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rob Kellock
          Nels, The BoxTop plans call for notch in the lower leeboard guard instead of having the bolt go through the hull side. I ve often wondered whether the lower
          Message 4 of 28 , Feb 16, 2012
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            Nels,

            The BoxTop plans call for notch in the lower leeboard guard instead of having the bolt go through the hull side. I've often wondered whether the lower leeboard guard, even if constructed from a good hardwood, would be able to handle the massive forces involved in a boat that size.

            With Philsboat the bolt goes through a vertical triple butt strap of three 1/4 inch pieces of ply on the inside of the hull. Before pushing the bolt through, I squirted silicone sealant into the hole from both sides. The lower leeboard guard, made of hardwood, I simply epoxied to the outside of the hull. Never had moisture or flexing of any kind. I have however noticed flexing of the wales on the upper guard, which broke the epoxy holding the laminates together, so had to fill that in with silicone sealant to prevent moisture rotting the wales.

            I think the upper guard has to withstand higher strains than the lower, because on port tack more of the board becomes immersed, while on starboard tack the board rises out of the water. Incidentally, I think this also explains why at moderate angles of heel, starboard tack is better than port tack. On starboard tack the board is slicing into clean water, while on port tack the board is cutting disturbed water from the hull and the lower leeboard guard is causing drag.

            Cheers,

            Rob.

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I have several (older) Michalak plans, but there seems to be not a lot
            > of detail on how to attach the lower leeboard guard on any of them. His
            > build book simply says "glue and screw the lower leeboard guard into
            > position". With a hull that calls for 1/4" topsides like Jukebox3 it
            > seems to me there should maybe be a backing plate inside the hull or
            > something? The upper guard calls for through bolting through the wales
            > and I expect that one takes more flexing force when sailing, than the
            > lower one which is mainly a brace. So maybe not to worry about it too
            > much?
            >
            > Also most call for the leeboard pivot bolt going right through the hull
            > and tightened down inside. To me that seems a spot were moisture might
            > seep into the topside plywood hole. On JB3 it calls for a square notch
            > cut inside the guard and the pivot bolt not going through the hull but
            > the nut snugged down in the notch. So to me a better idea. But again I
            > wonder if an inner backing plate would be advisable - maybe even using
            > lag screws with washers to secure the guard solidly.
            >
            > With a hull like Hapscut with a lot of flare the guard must be quite
            > wide so wondering what it calls for?
            >
            > Nels
            >
          • prairiedog2332
            Thanks folks for the feedback. It is not only useful for me, but for others contemplating a Michalak build. The larger the hull, the bigger the leeboard and
            Message 5 of 28 , Feb 16, 2012
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              Thanks folks for the feedback.

              It is not only useful for me, but for others contemplating a Michalak
              build.

              The larger the hull, the bigger the leeboard and the more forces brought
              to bear on the guards and as Rob shares even the whales. One might not
              only contempate a backing plate for the lower guard but also a vertical
              brace made from hardwood from the gunnel down the to the chine to
              support the pivot bolt. Maybe hardwood for the wales - mahogany being
              worthy of consideration - which I can purchase cheaper than clear fir at
              my supplier. Reinforcing with epoxied tapes seems a great idea as well
              as mentioned by Reed.

              Another consideration is the strength of the lifting rudder assembly on
              the larger boats. Particularly the rudder stock. To quote Jim "...it's
              amazing how sturdy this part has to be." Some designers call for a
              double width stock with a slot inside for the rudder and pivot bolt to
              add support to the side stress on the rudder blade.

              Same thing applies for the mast step and partner. Do not scrimp there or
              with the scantlings of the lower mast section they support. Better to be
              overbuild a bit than under.

              In the endurance runs like the TX200 and Water Tribe Challenge, failures
              often involve rudder, leeboard and mast breakdowns.

              Nels


              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kellock" <creditscorenz@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Nels,
              >
              > The BoxTop plans call for notch in the lower leeboard guard instead of
              having the bolt go through the hull side. I've often wondered whether
              the lower leeboard guard, even if constructed from a good hardwood,
              would be able to handle the massive forces involved in a boat that size.
              >
              > With Philsboat the bolt goes through a vertical triple butt strap of
              three 1/4 inch pieces of ply on the inside of the hull. Before pushing
              the bolt through, I squirted silicone sealant into the hole from both
              sides. The lower leeboard guard, made of hardwood, I simply epoxied to
              the outside of the hull. Never had moisture or flexing of any kind. I
              have however noticed flexing of the wales on the upper guard, which
              broke the epoxy holding the laminates together, so had to fill that in
              with silicone sealant to prevent moisture rotting the wales.
              >
              > I think the upper guard has to withstand higher strains than the
              lower, because on port tack more of the board becomes immersed, while on
              starboard tack the board rises out of the water. Incidentally, I think
              this also explains why at moderate angles of heel, starboard tack is
              better than port tack. On starboard tack the board is slicing into clean
              water, while on port tack the board is cutting disturbed water from the
              hull and the lower leeboard guard is causing drag.
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Rob.
            • JeffreyM
              A little late to chime in, but I will anyway. I have both a Piccup and a Jewelbox Jr. I agree that having the pivot bolt not penetrate the hull is nice--I
              Message 6 of 28 , Feb 17, 2012
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                A little late to chime in, but I will anyway. I have both a Piccup and a Jewelbox Jr. I agree that having the pivot bolt not penetrate the hull is nice--I finally put an O-ring on the inside of the bolt on the Piccup to end the annoying rivulet of water that accompanied sailing heeled that way. On the JB Jr. I have no reinforcement at all on the hull at the lower guard and have never seen or heard any evidence of stress. It is true, however, that my guard is a little longer than designed (thus spreading the load more) to make it possible to move the leeboard fore or aft to improve the balance. (I was tinkering with the idea of having the leeboard angled when "fully down" so that raising it a bit in shallow water wouldn't move the center of lateral plane as drastically.)

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Thanks folks for the feedback.
                >
                > It is not only useful for me, but for others contemplating a Michalak
                > build.
                >
                > The larger the hull, the bigger the leeboard and the more forces brought
                > to bear on the guards and as Rob shares even the whales. One might not
                > only contempate a backing plate for the lower guard but also a vertical
                > brace made from hardwood from the gunnel down the to the chine to
                > support the pivot bolt. Maybe hardwood for the wales - mahogany being
                > worthy of consideration - which I can purchase cheaper than clear fir at
                > my supplier. Reinforcing with epoxied tapes seems a great idea as well
                > as mentioned by Reed.
                >
                > Another consideration is the strength of the lifting rudder assembly on
                > the larger boats. Particularly the rudder stock. To quote Jim "...it's
                > amazing how sturdy this part has to be." Some designers call for a
                > double width stock with a slot inside for the rudder and pivot bolt to
                > add support to the side stress on the rudder blade.
                >
                > Same thing applies for the mast step and partner. Do not scrimp there or
                > with the scantlings of the lower mast section they support. Better to be
                > overbuild a bit than under.
                >
                > In the endurance runs like the TX200 and Water Tribe Challenge, failures
                > often involve rudder, leeboard and mast breakdowns.
                >
                > Nels
                >
                >
                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Kellock" <creditscorenz@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Nels,
                > >
                > > The BoxTop plans call for notch in the lower leeboard guard instead of
                > having the bolt go through the hull side. I've often wondered whether
                > the lower leeboard guard, even if constructed from a good hardwood,
                > would be able to handle the massive forces involved in a boat that size.
                > >
                > > With Philsboat the bolt goes through a vertical triple butt strap of
                > three 1/4 inch pieces of ply on the inside of the hull. Before pushing
                > the bolt through, I squirted silicone sealant into the hole from both
                > sides. The lower leeboard guard, made of hardwood, I simply epoxied to
                > the outside of the hull. Never had moisture or flexing of any kind. I
                > have however noticed flexing of the wales on the upper guard, which
                > broke the epoxy holding the laminates together, so had to fill that in
                > with silicone sealant to prevent moisture rotting the wales.
                > >
                > > I think the upper guard has to withstand higher strains than the
                > lower, because on port tack more of the board becomes immersed, while on
                > starboard tack the board rises out of the water. Incidentally, I think
                > this also explains why at moderate angles of heel, starboard tack is
                > better than port tack. On starboard tack the board is slicing into clean
                > water, while on port tack the board is cutting disturbed water from the
                > hull and the lower leeboard guard is causing drag.
                > >
                > > Cheers,
                > >
                > > Rob.
                >
              • prairiedog2332
                Thanks Jeffrey, Never too late and your information is useful. On the bigger Jewelbox the lower guard is a full 45 long and 3 thick! No backing plate - just
                Message 7 of 28 , Feb 17, 2012
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                  Thanks Jeffrey,

                  Never too late and your information is useful. On the bigger Jewelbox
                  the lower guard is a full 45" long and 3" thick! No backing plate - just
                  glued and screwed to the 1/4" sides - although the pivot bolt is right
                  adjacent to the center frame so not likely subject to flexing.

                  Jim shows an "alternative" method with a lever with a handle attached
                  inside to the pivot bolt to raise and lower the board. He notes "Never
                  been tried":-)

                  I guess once the leeboard becomes a certain size, then some backing and
                  added support might be useful to consider, especially if you plan to
                  sail her hard. I know Jim prefers simple, easy and relaxed.

                  Nels


                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "JeffreyM" <JMichalsbr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A little late to chime in, but I will anyway. I have both a Piccup and
                  a Jewelbox Jr. I agree that having the pivot bolt not penetrate the hull
                  is nice--I finally put an O-ring on the inside of the bolt on the Piccup
                  to end the annoying rivulet of water that accompanied sailing heeled
                  that way. On the JB Jr. I have no reinforcement at all on the hull at
                  the lower guard and have never seen or heard any evidence of stress. It
                  is true, however, that my guard is a little longer than designed (thus
                  spreading the load more) to make it possible to move the leeboard fore
                  or aft to improve the balance. (I was tinkering with the idea of having
                  the leeboard angled when "fully down" so that raising it a bit in
                  shallow water wouldn't move the center of lateral plane as drastically.)
                  >
                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" nelsarv@ wrote:
                  > >
                • Rob Kellock
                  Since it s never too late I d better correct this! Was out on an overnighter yesterday and realised that my vertical butt strap was made from three pieces of
                  Message 8 of 28 , Feb 17, 2012
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                    Since it's never too late I'd better correct this! Was out on an overnighter yesterday and realised that my vertical butt strap was made from three pieces of 1/2 inch ply not 1/4 inch.

                    > With Philsboat the bolt goes through a vertical triple butt strap of three 1/4 inch pieces of ply on the inside of the hull.
                  • CHARLES
                    Even later to chime in- A Laguna on this years Texas200 got into a situation where his board was down and in mud when the sails were raised and the boat was
                    Message 9 of 28 , Feb 18, 2012
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                      Even later to chime in-

                      A Laguna on this years Texas200 got into a situation where his board was down and in mud when the sails were raised and the boat was sideways to the wind(they were drift fishing). The leeboard blade broke, but there was no damage to the either the upper or lower guards...I would suggest that the system is engineered (if built to Jim's specs) so that any failure would always be the blade (which is also the easiest thing to fix).

                      Chuck P

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "JeffreyM" <JMichalsbr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > A little late to chime in, but I will anyway. I have both a Piccup and a Jewelbox Jr. I agree that having the pivot bolt not penetrate the hull is nice--I finally put an O-ring on the inside of the bolt on the Piccup to end the annoying rivulet of water that accompanied sailing heeled that way. On the JB Jr. I have no reinforcement at all on the hull at the lower guard and have never seen or heard any evidence of stress. It is true, however, that my guard is a little longer than designed (thus spreading the load more) to make it possible to move the leeboard fore or aft to improve the balance. (I was tinkering with the idea of having the leeboard angled when "fully down" so that raising it a bit in shallow water wouldn't move the center of lateral plane as drastically.)
                      >
                      >
                    • jhargrovewright2@juno.com
                      Really? Chuck, who was it. That scenario presents the max stress on a board....in wave action. I increased the thickness of my Laguna board by 5mm
                      Message 10 of 28 , Feb 18, 2012
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                        Really? Chuck, who was it. That scenario presents the max stress on a board....in wave action. I increased the thickness of my Laguna board by 5mm increasing its strength a bit....but I only have it down when it is needed for lateral resistance and only as much as necessary. Boards are a big drag....when not needed and will slow you down....even when crabbing sideways a lot. I normally put a couple of layers of 6oz up near the max bending but I did not think it needed on that board with the added thickness.

                        ---------- Original Message ----------
                        From: "CHARLES" <chuckpierce@...>
                        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard
                        Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:31:15 -0000


                        <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
                        Even later to chime in-

                        A Laguna on this years Texas200 got into a situation where his board was down and in mud when the sails were raised and the boat was sideways to the wind(they were drift fishing). The leeboard blade broke, but there was no damage to the either the upper or lower guards...I would suggest that the system is engineered (if built to Jim's specs) so that any failure would always be the blade (which is also the easiest thing to fix).

                        Chuck P

                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "JeffreyM" <JMichalsbr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > A little late to chime in, but I will anyway. I have both a Piccup and a Jewelbox Jr. I agree that having the pivot bolt not penetrate the hull is nice--I finally put an O-ring on the inside of the bolt on the Piccup to end the annoying rivulet of water that accompanied sailing heeled that way. On the JB Jr. I have no reinforcement at all on the hull at the lower guard and have never seen or heard any evidence of stress. It is true, however, that my guard is a little longer than designed (thus spreading the load more) to make it possible to move the leeboard fore or aft to improve the balance. (I was tinkering with the idea of having the leeboard angled when "fully down" so that raising it a bit in shallow water wouldn't move the center of lateral plane as drastically.)
                        >
                        >







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • prairiedog2332
                        Makes me wonder why an aluminum leeboard has never been considered? It could certainly be thinner giving less drag, less work to make, no lead to pour or
                        Message 11 of 28 , Feb 18, 2012
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                          Makes me wonder why an aluminum leeboard has never been considered? It
                          could certainly be thinner giving less drag, less work to make, no lead
                          to pour or glass reinforement required. If it gets bent just need to
                          hammer it back flat again to repair it in a pinch.

                          When Bolger upgraded the Birdwatcher design he changed over to an
                          aluminum centerboard fromthe plywood one with the original.

                          Nels


                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@..."
                          <jhargrovewright2@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Really? Chuck, who was it. That scenario presents the max stress on a
                          board....in wave action. I increased the thickness of my Laguna board by
                          5mm increasing its strength a bit....but I only have it down when it is
                          needed for lateral resistance and only as much as necessary. Boards are
                          a big drag....when not needed and will slow you down....even when
                          crabbing sideways a lot. I normally put a couple of layers of 6oz up
                          near the max bending but I did not think it needed on that board with
                          the added thickness.
                          >
                        • CHARLES
                          It was Gordo, John-He and his son were kind of pulled over and drifting while they fished. He didn t notice that they had drifted onto a mudbank. Chuck P
                          Message 12 of 28 , Feb 18, 2012
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                            It was Gordo, John-He and his son were kind of pulled over and drifting while they fished. He didn't notice that they had drifted onto a mudbank.

                            Chuck P

                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@..." <jhargrovewright2@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Really? Chuck, who was it. That scenario presents the max stress on a board....in wave action. I increased the thickness of my Laguna board by 5mm increasing its strength a bit....but I only have it down when it is needed for lateral resistance and only as much as necessary. Boards are a big drag....when not needed and will slow you down....even when crabbing sideways a lot. I normally put a couple of layers of 6oz up near the max bending but I did not think it needed on that board with the added thickness.
                            >
                            > ---------- Original Message ----------
                            > From: "CHARLES" <chuckpierce@...>
                            > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard
                            > Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:31:15 -0000
                            >
                            >
                            > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
                            > Even later to chime in-
                            >
                            > A Laguna on this years Texas200 got into a situation where his board was down and in mud when the sails were raised and the boat was sideways to the wind(they were drift fishing). The leeboard blade broke, but there was no damage to the either the upper or lower guards...I would suggest that the system is engineered (if built to Jim's specs) so that any failure would always be the blade (which is also the easiest thing to fix).
                            >
                            > Chuck P
                            >
                            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "JeffreyM" <JMichalsbr@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > A little late to chime in, but I will anyway. I have both a Piccup and a Jewelbox Jr. I agree that having the pivot bolt not penetrate the hull is nice--I finally put an O-ring on the inside of the bolt on the Piccup to end the annoying rivulet of water that accompanied sailing heeled that way. On the JB Jr. I have no reinforcement at all on the hull at the lower guard and have never seen or heard any evidence of stress. It is true, however, that my guard is a little longer than designed (thus spreading the load more) to make it possible to move the leeboard fore or aft to improve the balance. (I was tinkering with the idea of having the leeboard angled when "fully down" so that raising it a bit in shallow water wouldn't move the center of lateral plane as drastically.)
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Mike
                            I just finised cutting out the parts for the piccup pram and getting ready to start assembly as per the plans. I ve been wanting to build a boat for over
                            Message 13 of 28 , Feb 19, 2012
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                              I just finised cutting out the parts for the piccup pram and getting ready to start assembly as per the plans.

                              I've been wanting to build a boat for over forty years and finally feel like I am fulfilling a dream from my youth. I've read thru the plans multiple times to make sure I understand what I am doing and minimize errors?

                              I have no expertise in this area so I will go with the recommendations of those who have experience. The question that I have is exactly what you are talking about regarding the lower Leeboard guard. Is there a way to fasten it to the hull without penetrating it and not sacrificing the strength of the guard in handling the stress that it will experience?

                              Thank you to anyone who can offer a suggestion.

                              Regards
                              Mike
                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Nels,
                              >
                              > The lower leeboard area does get a lot of stress. The upper part is supported by the gunwale and is OK. On my Piccup Pram the fiberglass tape adjacent to the leeboard guard started cracking. About 5 years ago I added layers of tape to the seam at that point until the seam was 3/16" high for about 2 feet along. I can still see the side flexing there but the seam is secure.
                              >
                              > On my JB Jr I backed the 1/4" side with a piece of 3/8" plywood, a piece about 10" X 48" right where the lower leeboard guard bolts through in to the cabin. I don't get any flexing there.
                              >
                              > Reed
                              > Ventura, CA
                              >
                            • JeffreyM
                              Druther have wood. If it survives at all, a wooden leeboard will basically spring back into shape. Can you imagine hammering a beat-up aluminum leeboard back
                              Message 14 of 28 , Feb 19, 2012
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                                Druther have wood. If it survives at all, a wooden leeboard will basically spring back into shape. Can you imagine hammering a beat-up aluminum leeboard back into a fair, flat shape? Granted, a bent aluminum leeboard would probably be more useful than a broken wooden one if you were a long way from home...

                                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Makes me wonder why an aluminum leeboard has never been considered? It
                                > could certainly be thinner giving less drag, less work to make, no lead
                                > to pour or glass reinforement required. If it gets bent just need to
                                > hammer it back flat again to repair it in a pinch.
                                >
                                > When Bolger upgraded the Birdwatcher design he changed over to an
                                > aluminum centerboard fromthe plywood one with the original.
                                >
                                > Nels
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@"
                                > <jhargrovewright2@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Really? Chuck, who was it. That scenario presents the max stress on a
                                > board....in wave action. I increased the thickness of my Laguna board by
                                > 5mm increasing its strength a bit....but I only have it down when it is
                                > needed for lateral resistance and only as much as necessary. Boards are
                                > a big drag....when not needed and will slow you down....even when
                                > crabbing sideways a lot. I normally put a couple of layers of 6oz up
                                > near the max bending but I did not think it needed on that board with
                                > the added thickness.
                                > >
                                >
                              • CHARLES
                                Aluminum would certainly be a maintenance free piece compared to wood. From an engineering standpoint my only worry would be that it might not bend enough (or
                                Message 15 of 28 , Feb 20, 2012
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                                  Aluminum would certainly be a maintenance free piece compared to wood. From an engineering standpoint my only worry would be that it might not bend enough (or quickly enough) in a situation like the one described above to prevent damage to the other components of the system (upper and lower guards).

                                  Chuck P

                                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Makes me wonder why an aluminum leeboard has never been considered? It
                                  > could certainly be thinner giving less drag, less work to make, no lead
                                  > to pour or glass reinforement required. If it gets bent just need to
                                  > hammer it back flat again to repair it in a pinch.
                                  >
                                  > When Bolger upgraded the Birdwatcher design he changed over to an
                                  > aluminum centerboard fromthe plywood one with the original.
                                  >
                                  > Nels
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@"
                                  > <jhargrovewright2@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Really? Chuck, who was it. That scenario presents the max stress on a
                                  > board....in wave action. I increased the thickness of my Laguna board by
                                  > 5mm increasing its strength a bit....but I only have it down when it is
                                  > needed for lateral resistance and only as much as necessary. Boards are
                                  > a big drag....when not needed and will slow you down....even when
                                  > crabbing sideways a lot. I normally put a couple of layers of 6oz up
                                  > near the max bending but I did not think it needed on that board with
                                  > the added thickness.
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • daniel brown
                                  re aluminum leeboard, i had an albacore daysailer/racer with an aluminum centerboard (7/32 thick) that i felt was too flexible. i could hike way out and see
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Feb 20, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    re aluminum leeboard, i had an albacore daysailer/racer with an aluminum centerboard (7/32" thick) that i felt was too flexible. i could hike way out and see the board flexing on the upwind beat. i replaced it with a 3/4" ply board coated with 6 oz 'glass and epoxy for a stiffer board. i guess on a cruiser, better for the board to flex than to break part of the leeboard mount. my point is, seems like an aluminum leeboard would be good on a cruising boat.




                                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: chuckpierce@...
                                    Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:30:14 +0000
                                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard






                                    Aluminum would certainly be a maintenance free piece compared to wood. From an engineering standpoint my only worry would be that it might not bend enough (or quickly enough) in a situation like the one described above to prevent damage to the other components of the system (upper and lower guards).

                                    Chuck P

                                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Makes me wonder why an aluminum leeboard has never been considered? It
                                    > could certainly be thinner giving less drag, less work to make, no lead
                                    > to pour or glass reinforement required. If it gets bent just need to
                                    > hammer it back flat again to repair it in a pinch.
                                    >
                                    > When Bolger upgraded the Birdwatcher design he changed over to an
                                    > aluminum centerboard fromthe plywood one with the original.
                                    >
                                    > Nels
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "jhargrovewright2@"
                                    > <jhargrovewright2@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Really? Chuck, who was it. That scenario presents the max stress on a
                                    > board....in wave action. I increased the thickness of my Laguna board by
                                    > 5mm increasing its strength a bit....but I only have it down when it is
                                    > needed for lateral resistance and only as much as necessary. Boards are
                                    > a big drag....when not needed and will slow you down....even when
                                    > crabbing sideways a lot. I normally put a couple of layers of 6oz up
                                    > near the max bending but I did not think it needed on that board with
                                    > the added thickness.
                                    > >
                                    >






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • daniel brown
                                    hi mike, the discussion has been about reinforcing the hull behind the leeboard guard, not the leeboard guard itself. on my boats the hull reinforcement is
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Feb 20, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      hi mike, the discussion has been about reinforcing the hull behind the leeboard guard, not the leeboard guard itself. on my boats the hull reinforcement is simply a wood (oak) or plywood backing plate that acts like a big washer to prevent the leeboard pivot bolt from pulling through the hull when the leeboard is under load. hope this helps : )
                                      dan in port royal




                                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: rudder59@...
                                      Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:21:22 +0000
                                      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard







                                      I just finised cutting out the parts for the piccup pram and getting ready to start assembly as per the plans.

                                      I've been wanting to build a boat for over forty years and finally feel like I am fulfilling a dream from my youth. I've read thru the plans multiple times to make sure I understand what I am doing and minimize errors?

                                      I have no expertise in this area so I will go with the recommendations of those who have experience. The question that I have is exactly what you are talking about regarding the lower Leeboard guard. Is there a way to fasten it to the hull without penetrating it and not sacrificing the strength of the guard in handling the stress that it will experience?

                                      Thank you to anyone who can offer a suggestion.

                                      Regards
                                      Mike
                                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Nels,
                                      >
                                      > The lower leeboard area does get a lot of stress. The upper part is supported by the gunwale and is OK. On my Piccup Pram the fiberglass tape adjacent to the leeboard guard started cracking. About 5 years ago I added layers of tape to the seam at that point until the seam was 3/16" high for about 2 feet along. I can still see the side flexing there but the seam is secure.
                                      >
                                      > On my JB Jr I backed the 1/4" side with a piece of 3/8" plywood, a piece about 10" X 48" right where the lower leeboard guard bolts through in to the cabin. I don't get any flexing there.
                                      >
                                      > Reed
                                      > Ventura, CA
                                      >






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • John
                                      ... I am building a Hapscut and working thru the geometry of the leeboard guards now. A) If the leeboard is kept perpendicular the lower leeboard guard will be
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Feb 21, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        > "With a hull like Hapscut with a lot of flare the guard must be quite wide so wondering what it calls for?"

                                        I am building a Hapscut and working thru the geometry of the leeboard guards now.
                                        A) If the leeboard is kept perpendicular the lower leeboard guard will be close to 10.5" wide.
                                        B) If the leeboard closely follows the flare of the hull it will be 3" wide.
                                        C) A compromise would be somewhere between at 5-7", so the leeboard is slightly sloped but not perpendicular.

                                        In Option A, I am concerned that that large of a guard will drag in the water more that I would like. I will need a 2x12 to start with and it will require bolting and backing plate inside the hull.

                                        Option B, the leeboard is angled the pivot points will get pinched and the control line won't lift the board.

                                        Option C, A compromise.

                                        Now matter which option I choose, I will thru bolt/screw the lower guard with some plywood backer plates.

                                        Has anyone angled their leeboard to follow the flare of the hull?
                                      • jhargrovewright2@juno.com
                                        Angling the board is not a good answer....of course a little bit is not as bad as a lot...it is accumulative....I would guess. On my Laguna I moved the board
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Feb 21, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Angling the board is not a good answer....of course a little bit is not as bad as a lot...it is accumulative....I would guess. On my Laguna I moved the board to the side of the boat....not the side of the gunrail....and made structural modifications. I am not recommending anything. It is just a compulsion that I must deal with.

                                          ---------- Original Message ----------
                                          From: "John" <goodman_clan@...>
                                          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard
                                          Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:39:13 -0000


                                          <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

                                          > "With a hull like Hapscut with a lot of flare the guard must be quite wide so wondering what it calls for?"

                                          I am building a Hapscut and working thru the geometry of the leeboard guards now.
                                          A) If the leeboard is kept perpendicular the lower leeboard guard will be close to 10.5" wide.
                                          B) If the leeboard closely follows the flare of the hull it will be 3" wide.
                                          C) A compromise would be somewhere between at 5-7", so the leeboard is slightly sloped but not perpendicular.

                                          In Option A, I am concerned that that large of a guard will drag in the water more that I would like. I will need a 2x12 to start with and it will require bolting and backing plate inside the hull.

                                          Option B, the leeboard is angled the pivot points will get pinched and the control line won't lift the board.

                                          Option C, A compromise.

                                          Now matter which option I choose, I will thru bolt/screw the lower guard with some plywood backer plates.

                                          Has anyone angled their leeboard to follow the flare of the hull?







                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • prairiedog2332
                                          Hi John, All of Jim s instructions call for a single leeboard to be hung perpendicular and parallel to the water flow. I am not an engineer, but it seems to
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Feb 21, 2012
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                                            Hi John,

                                            All of Jim's instructions call for a single leeboard to be hung
                                            perpendicular and parallel to the water flow.

                                            I am not an engineer, but it seems to me there are some fairly large
                                            structural things to consider compared to Jim's smaller hulls, if you
                                            are indeed looking at a 2x12 guard. I might confer with Jim for his
                                            thoughts.

                                            First is the size and length of the pivot bolt. Jewelbox calls for 2 -
                                            2x10's laminated together for it's guard and I think that is mostly to
                                            support a heavier pivot bolt. No size given but I suspect 1/2". Then if
                                            there is a notch cut into the inner edge of the guard for the pivot bolt
                                            nut, then the bolt can be shorter. Large washers each end.

                                            Inner backing plate and lag bolts with washers, as I would not want to
                                            through bolt that wide a guard.

                                            Perhaps two narrow exterior galvanized metal braces set into the wales
                                            and the outer edge of the guard at both ends of the parallel portion? I
                                            might even consider a bearing strip on the outer edge of guard made from
                                            "white cutting board" material to lessen friction when raising the
                                            leeboard.

                                            I was thinking all this when looking at the Boxtop plans, which calls
                                            for a big leeboard. 96" deep and 36" wide at the upper end. Also
                                            calling for a 3" thick guard and inset notch for the pivot bolt nut.

                                            Sailing on the starboard tack the guard would be under the water and if
                                            the ends are faired well should not create too much water disturbance.

                                            Otherwise you may be looking at moving the board inside the gunwales as
                                            John mentions. This is what Bolger does when the hull has a lot of
                                            flare. It then becomes a bilge board or offset centerboard. So must be
                                            wider and not as deep in order to fit inside.

                                            Incidentally I still like Boxtop over a Triloboat or Superbrick:-)

                                            Nels


                                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John" <goodman_clan@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > "With a hull like Hapscut with a lot of flare the guard must be
                                            quite wide so wondering what it calls for?"
                                            >
                                            > I am building a Hapscut and working thru the geometry of the leeboard
                                            guards now.
                                            > A) If the leeboard is kept perpendicular the lower leeboard guard will
                                            be close to 10.5" wide.
                                            > B) If the leeboard closely follows the flare of the hull it will be 3"
                                            wide.
                                            > C) A compromise would be somewhere between at 5-7", so the leeboard is
                                            slightly sloped but not perpendicular.
                                            >
                                            > In Option A, I am concerned that that large of a guard will drag in
                                            the water more that I would like. I will need a 2x12 to start with and
                                            it will require bolting and backing plate inside the hull.
                                            >
                                            > Option B, the leeboard is angled the pivot points will get pinched and
                                            the control line won't lift the board.
                                            >
                                            > Option C, A compromise.
                                            >
                                            > Now matter which option I choose, I will thru bolt/screw the lower
                                            guard with some plywood backer plates.
                                            >
                                            > Has anyone angled their leeboard to follow the flare of the hull?
                                            >
                                          • John
                                            My leeboard is 66 x24 and weighs 44 pounds unfinished. No size on my plan either for the pivot bolt so I plan on at least 1/2 . The lower guard calls for a
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Feb 21, 2012
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                                              My leeboard is 66"x24" and weighs 44 pounds unfinished.

                                              No size on my plan either for the pivot bolt so I plan on at least 1/2". The lower guard calls for a 1-1/2" lumber to be laminated between (2) layers of 1/4" plywood with a bolt notch, so the overall thickness will be 2" thick.

                                              I plan on extending both guards aft 12" so I can mount cam cleats and hold the blade steady while it's on the trailer.

                                              I like the idea of the "white cutting board" material to lessen friction when raising the leeboard. Just have to find a piece 3"x36". I already measured the one in the kitchen, it's way too small.
                                            • John
                                              My leeboard is 66 x24 and weighs 44 pounds unfinished. No size on my plan either for the pivot bolt so I plan on at least 1/2 . The lower guard calls for a
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Feb 21, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                My leeboard is 66"x24" and weighs 44 pounds unfinished.

                                                No size on my plan either for the pivot bolt so I plan on at least 1/2". The lower guard calls for a 1-1/2" lumber to be laminated between (2) layers of 1/4" plywood with a bolt notch, so the overall thickness will be 2" thick.

                                                I plan on extending both guards aft 12" so I can mount cam cleats and hold the blade steady while it's on the trailer.

                                                I like the idea of the "white cutting board" material to lessen friction when raising the leeboard. Just have to find a piece 3"x36". I already measured the one in the kitchen, it's way too small.
                                              • John
                                                John, Speaking of your Laguna and I don t want to hijack the thread: Did you raise the cockpit floor so it self drained? wrote: I built
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Feb 21, 2012
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                                                  John, Speaking of your Laguna and I don't want to hijack the thread: Did you raise the cockpit floor so it self drained?

                                                  "<jhargrovewright2@...> wrote: I built a Laguna"
                                                • Mike
                                                  Dan Thanks for the response. I hope I didn t take over someone s post or divert the topic. Still figuring out how to navigate round the site. I hadn t thought
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Feb 24, 2012
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Dan
                                                    Thanks for the response. I hope I didn't take over someone's post or divert the topic. Still figuring out how to navigate round the site.

                                                    I hadn't thought about the pressure exerted on the hull behind the Leeboard.

                                                    Mike

                                                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, daniel brown <dannyb9@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > hi mike, the discussion has been about reinforcing the hull behind the leeboard guard, not the leeboard guard itself. on my boats the hull reinforcement is simply a wood (oak) or plywood backing plate that acts like a big washer to prevent the leeboard pivot bolt from pulling through the hull when the leeboard is under load. hope this helps : )
                                                    > dan in port royal
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > From: rudder59@...
                                                    > Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:21:22 +0000
                                                    > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > I just finised cutting out the parts for the piccup pram and getting ready to start assembly as per the plans.
                                                    >
                                                    > I've been wanting to build a boat for over forty years and finally feel like I am fulfilling a dream from my youth. I've read thru the plans multiple times to make sure I understand what I am doing and minimize errors?
                                                    >
                                                    > I have no expertise in this area so I will go with the recommendations of those who have experience. The question that I have is exactly what you are talking about regarding the lower Leeboard guard. Is there a way to fasten it to the hull without penetrating it and not sacrificing the strength of the guard in handling the stress that it will experience?
                                                    >
                                                    > Thank you to anyone who can offer a suggestion.
                                                    >
                                                    > Regards
                                                    > Mike
                                                    > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@" <captreed@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Hi Nels,
                                                    > >
                                                    > > The lower leeboard area does get a lot of stress. The upper part is supported by the gunwale and is OK. On my Piccup Pram the fiberglass tape adjacent to the leeboard guard started cracking. About 5 years ago I added layers of tape to the seam at that point until the seam was 3/16" high for about 2 feet along. I can still see the side flexing there but the seam is secure.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > On my JB Jr I backed the 1/4" side with a piece of 3/8" plywood, a piece about 10" X 48" right where the lower leeboard guard bolts through in to the cabin. I don't get any flexing there.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Reed
                                                    > > Ventura, CA
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                  • prairiedog2332
                                                    Hi Mike, Just to clarify, I was the one to pose the original question. It had to do with a larger hull (Jukebox3) that had sides that called for 1/4 plywood.
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Feb 24, 2012
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Hi Mike,

                                                      Just to clarify, I was the one to pose the original question. It had to
                                                      do with a larger hull (Jukebox3) that had sides that called for 1/4"
                                                      plywood. So I thought some sort of backing might be beneficial with
                                                      plywood that thin. On a smaller hull probably not that critical?

                                                      My boat building mentor taught me that any additons including hardware
                                                      should have a backing plate inside the hull and though-bolted if
                                                      possible. Whether a cleat or deck block or even a navigation light.
                                                      Screws do not hold well in plywood. When securing items into solid
                                                      timber - like the wales and chine logs - not a problem.

                                                      Sort of a "belt and suspenders" attitude:-)

                                                      Nels




                                                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <rudder59@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Dan
                                                      > Thanks for the response. I hope I didn't take over someone's post or
                                                      divert the topic. Still figuring out how to navigate round the site.
                                                      >
                                                      > I hadn't thought about the pressure exerted on the hull behind the
                                                      Leeboard.
                                                      >
                                                      > Mike
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, daniel brown dannyb9@ wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > hi mike, the discussion has been about reinforcing the hull behind
                                                      the leeboard guard, not the leeboard guard itself. on my boats the hull
                                                      reinforcement is simply a wood (oak) or plywood backing plate that acts
                                                      like a big washer to prevent the leeboard pivot bolt from pulling
                                                      through the hull when the leeboard is under load. hope this helps : )
                                                      > > dan in port royal
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > From: rudder59@
                                                      > > Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:21:22 +0000
                                                      > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I just finised cutting out the parts for the piccup pram and getting
                                                      ready to start assembly as per the plans.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I've been wanting to build a boat for over forty years and finally
                                                      feel like I am fulfilling a dream from my youth. I've read thru the
                                                      plans multiple times to make sure I understand what I am doing and
                                                      minimize errors?
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I have no expertise in this area so I will go with the
                                                      recommendations of those who have experience. The question that I have
                                                      is exactly what you are talking about regarding the lower Leeboard
                                                      guard. Is there a way to fasten it to the hull without penetrating it
                                                      and not sacrificing the strength of the guard in handling the stress
                                                      that it will experience?
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Thank you to anyone who can offer a suggestion.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Regards
                                                      > > Mike
                                                      > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@" <captreed@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Hi Nels,
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > The lower leeboard area does get a lot of stress. The upper part
                                                      is supported by the gunwale and is OK. On my Piccup Pram the fiberglass
                                                      tape adjacent to the leeboard guard started cracking. About 5 years ago
                                                      I added layers of tape to the seam at that point until the seam was
                                                      3/16" high for about 2 feet along. I can still see the side flexing
                                                      there but the seam is secure.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > On my JB Jr I backed the 1/4" side with a piece of 3/8" plywood, a
                                                      piece about 10" X 48" right where the lower leeboard guard bolts through
                                                      in to the cabin. I don't get any flexing there.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Reed
                                                      > > > Ventura, CA
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    • Mike
                                                      Thanks Nels. My experience on boats(on them, not building them) would make me agree that it is always better to use through bolts. Being on salt water the
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Feb 25, 2012
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Thanks Nels. My experience on boats(on them, not building them) would make me agree that it is always better to use through bolts. Being on salt water the elements eventually work their way down into the screw holes,oxidize the screws and on fiberglass get into the matting. Over time the fiberglass around the screw holes hardens and cracks from the strain and the light or cleat breaks loose. My current boat is 35 years old.She's been a good boat but as each item wears out or breaks off I replace with thru hole fittings.

                                                        The more I think about my original question I think your comments about the stress on the plywood may also be why the design calls for the bolt on the lower guard to be a thru hull fitting.imbedding a bolt in the guard and then attaching it to the hull may not provide enough load distribution at the point of attachment. Thank you.

                                                        Regards,
                                                        Mike

                                                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Hi Mike,
                                                        >
                                                        > Just to clarify, I was the one to pose the original question. It had to
                                                        > do with a larger hull (Jukebox3) that had sides that called for 1/4"
                                                        > plywood. So I thought some sort of backing might be beneficial with
                                                        > plywood that thin. On a smaller hull probably not that critical?
                                                        >
                                                        > My boat building mentor taught me that any additons including hardware
                                                        > should have a backing plate inside the hull and though-bolted if
                                                        > possible. Whether a cleat or deck block or even a navigation light.
                                                        > Screws do not hold well in plywood. When securing items into solid
                                                        > timber - like the wales and chine logs - not a problem.
                                                        >
                                                        > Sort of a "belt and suspenders" attitude:-)
                                                        >
                                                        > Nels
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <rudder59@> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Dan
                                                        > > Thanks for the response. I hope I didn't take over someone's post or
                                                        > divert the topic. Still figuring out how to navigate round the site.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > I hadn't thought about the pressure exerted on the hull behind the
                                                        > Leeboard.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Mike
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, daniel brown dannyb9@ wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > hi mike, the discussion has been about reinforcing the hull behind
                                                        > the leeboard guard, not the leeboard guard itself. on my boats the hull
                                                        > reinforcement is simply a wood (oak) or plywood backing plate that acts
                                                        > like a big washer to prevent the leeboard pivot bolt from pulling
                                                        > through the hull when the leeboard is under load. hope this helps : )
                                                        > > > dan in port royal
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > > From: rudder59@
                                                        > > > Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:21:22 +0000
                                                        > > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Lower Leeboard Guard
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > I just finised cutting out the parts for the piccup pram and getting
                                                        > ready to start assembly as per the plans.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > I've been wanting to build a boat for over forty years and finally
                                                        > feel like I am fulfilling a dream from my youth. I've read thru the
                                                        > plans multiple times to make sure I understand what I am doing and
                                                        > minimize errors?
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > I have no expertise in this area so I will go with the
                                                        > recommendations of those who have experience. The question that I have
                                                        > is exactly what you are talking about regarding the lower Leeboard
                                                        > guard. Is there a way to fasten it to the hull without penetrating it
                                                        > and not sacrificing the strength of the guard in handling the stress
                                                        > that it will experience?
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Thank you to anyone who can offer a suggestion.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Regards
                                                        > > > Mike
                                                        > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@" <captreed@> wrote:
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Hi Nels,
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > The lower leeboard area does get a lot of stress. The upper part
                                                        > is supported by the gunwale and is OK. On my Piccup Pram the fiberglass
                                                        > tape adjacent to the leeboard guard started cracking. About 5 years ago
                                                        > I added layers of tape to the seam at that point until the seam was
                                                        > 3/16" high for about 2 feet along. I can still see the side flexing
                                                        > there but the seam is secure.
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > On my JB Jr I backed the 1/4" side with a piece of 3/8" plywood, a
                                                        > piece about 10" X 48" right where the lower leeboard guard bolts through
                                                        > in to the cabin. I don't get any flexing there.
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Reed
                                                        > > > > Ventura, CA
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                      • graeme
                                                        ... The screws may corrode, but so too may the wood also due to electrolysis. Graeme
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Feb 25, 2012
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                                                          > Being on salt water the elements eventually work their way down
                                                          > into the screw holes,oxidize the screws

                                                          The screws may corrode, but so too may the wood also due to electrolysis.

                                                          Graeme
                                                        • Mike
                                                          True. time and the elements win out in the end .we just try to slow them down.
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Feb 28, 2012
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                                                            True. time and the elements win out in the end .we just try to slow them down.

                                                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "graeme" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > > Being on salt water the elements eventually work their way down
                                                            > > into the screw holes,oxidize the screws
                                                            >
                                                            > The screws may corrode, but so too may the wood also due to electrolysis.
                                                            >
                                                            > Graeme
                                                            >
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