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Re: [Michalak] Re: Primer over epoxy fiberglass

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  • john colley
    I d like to add that when using acrylic,waterbased house paint,it was over epoxy and on my 17 canoe.It gets so many dings,that it is always being patched up
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 30 9:24 PM
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      I'd like to add that when using acrylic,waterbased house paint,it was over epoxy and on my 17' canoe.It gets so many dings,that it is always being patched up after a day on the water.For My HartleyTS16 hull i would use a quality marine paint.Exterior house paint for on deck and in cabin.I use timber decking paint for both cabin and cockpit floors.Horses for courses i think.

       
      "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
      -Sigurd Olson


      ________________________________
      From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
      To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2011 6:07 AM
      Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Primer over epoxy fiberglass


       
      When I posted i had bad results with latex water based paint... I had painted a 16 foot boat and after being in the water a while the paint loosened from the hull.  When I hauled it out you could grab some paint and peel it off in large pieces like wet cardboard.

      My current Columbia 24 project was painted with latex paint on the interior ceiling and walls and the same thing is happening.. it is peeling off in large flakes.  Enamel paint will usually stick to fiberglass just like the paint on your car finish.  I recommend a good marine paint and so was surprised and happy to see rustoleum has developed a marine line.

      Andrew

      ________________________________
      From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
      To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 1:00 PM
      Subject: RE: [Michalak] Re: Primer over epoxy fiberglass

      my experience and understanding is, oil over acrylic primer, ok. acrylic over oil, not. further, amusing that recommendations for acrylics add the caveat, if its immersed for long periods, acrylic gets soft. this is about painting boats. mine are in the water a lot. i'm happy with rustoleum, regular and marine grade. i prefer flat white or white primer for everything, sometimes mixed with a color for pastels. i wish i could get a complete range of flat colors in rustoleum. so far i'm aware of reddish (red oxide) primer, flat black, flat white, and white primer in flat colors.

      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      From: nelsarv@...
      Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 18:45:29 +0000
      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Primer over epoxy fiberglass

       

      One other thing I should have mentioned. The professional painter I
      referred to said it is really confusing keeping up with the newest
      developments in paint formulations due to "environmental concerns" re:
      VOC's and other issues. That is why it is recommended to go to a
      retailer who specializes in paint and keeps up with the latest
      restrictions. So a paint that Carnell recommended 20 years ago may not
      be the same paint today.

      This fellow does huge contracts like hospitals and apartment blocks so
      can't compromise in quality of paint. If he has to re-coat then all his
      profit is gone and soon his reputation as well.

      Nels

      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, john colley <Helliconia54@...> wrote:
      >
      > A good article.I've never heard of latex paints till i joined forums
      with American members.Vinyl or acrylic paints.water based.NO one uses
      primitive smelly oil based paints anymore.Surface dries but takes months
      to fully harden.I use premium house paint 12 yr warrantee,Uv proof
      etc.Water based dries in 20 mins.Semigloss..Paints over epoxy well(if
      you remove bloom first,,,LOL)But it does soften if imersed in water for
      protracted periods.
      >
      > Â
      > "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a
      magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
      > -Sigurd Olson

                             

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------------------------------

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    • Michael
      I would recommend using marine paint. It is more expensive but the results are a lot better. I used good latex paint on my first boat. It held up well even
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 1, 2011
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        I would recommend using "marine" paint. It is more expensive but the results are a lot better.

        I used good latex paint on my first boat. It held up well even left in the water all summer but was not at all glossy and did not show the boat to its best advantage. It did provide adequate protection from the elements and against rot.

        I bought a quart of "marine" paint for the next build. One quart covered over glass set in epoxy as well as a half gallon of latex. The paint was glossy and set the boat off to its best advantage. The marine paint costs more but in my opinion given the amount of work that goes into a boat a few dollars more for a much prettier result is well worth it.

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, john colley <Helliconia54@...> wrote:
        >
        > Here in Australia,All our premium outdoor paints(acrylic/vinyl no one uses oil based paints anymore) They are all primerless.Dulux,British paints Taubmans etc.I've3 had no problems yet with my timber canoe.(over 3 yrs)
        >
        >  
        > "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
        > -Sigurd Olson
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: JOHN <rugscrub@...>
        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, 30 September 2011 2:54 AM
        > Subject: [Michalak] Primer over epoxy fiberglass
        >
        >
        >  
        > Over the years I have used several marine paints, both two part and one part. Those were used to repaint existing fiberglass hulls or a dinghy that I built that was bare wood. On this boat I am planning to finish with exterior latex acrylic over primer, per Dave Carnell, Michalak and others. I know that I am not going to spend the hours (days?)required to get my little af4b smooth enough for a nice, shiny finish. My question is this: What primer is most effective at smoothing out those imperfections that remain after rough sanding, or at least make them acceptable if I squint or stand back over the 10 feet? The Home Depot paints have the primer 'built in". I don't think a combination product is best for painting a boat. Thanks, Stan
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Hajo Smulders
        I m switching to a (cheap) marine paint as well. I used Raka s mega gloss alkyd at $35 / a gallon (Which is what porch and floor paint costs as well.) and was
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 1, 2011
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          I'm switching to a (cheap) marine paint as well.
          I used Raka's mega gloss alkyd at $35 / a gallon (Which is what porch and
          floor paint costs as well.) and was very happy with the results compared to
          house paint. It seems to have a higher gloss, and definitely levels better.
          I use a foam roller and then bust the bubbles with a brush. You need to get
          very close to see that it isn't sprayed.
          FWIW: I used to use porch and floor paint all the time. I'm beginning to
          care more about looks and saving time nowadays; even if it costs a bit more.

          Hajo
          --
          �Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat.� (L. Tomlin)


          On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Michael <vanbreilingtrio@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > I would recommend using "marine" paint. It is more expensive but the
          > results are a lot better.
          >
          > I used good latex paint on my first boat. It held up well even left in the
          > water all summer but was not at all glossy and did not show the boat to its
          > best advantage. It did provide adequate protection from the elements and
          > against rot.
          >
          > I bought a quart of "marine" paint for the next build. One quart covered
          > over glass set in epoxy as well as a half gallon of latex. The paint was
          > glossy and set the boat off to its best advantage. The marine paint costs
          > more but in my opinion given the amount of work that goes into a boat a few
          > dollars more for a much prettier result is well worth it.
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • prairiedog2332
          Hajo, I agree alkyd marine might be the way to go. Especially at that price! Alkyds use organic oils (Like linseed) rather than petroleum based so one might
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 1, 2011
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            Hajo,

            I agree alkyd marine might be the way to go. Especially at that price!
            Alkyds use organic oils (Like linseed) rather than petroleum based so
            one might consider them more environmentally friendly. Epoxy of course
            is petroleum based so alkyds should be compatible I would think.

            Organic oil-based paints may take a bit longer to fully harden as they
            use organic alcohol as the evaporant and may not be quite as glossy as
            other petroleum based marine paints with evaporants that cure faster.

            Raka products seem like a really good line.

            Nels


            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Hajo Smulders <hajosmulders@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm switching to a (cheap) marine paint as well.
            > I used Raka's mega gloss alkyd at $35 / a gallon (Which is what porch
            and
            > floor paint costs as well.) and was very happy with the results
            compared to
            > house paint. It seems to have a higher gloss, and definitely levels
            better.
            > I use a foam roller and then bust the bubbles with a brush. You need
            to get
            > very close to see that it isn't sprayed.
            > FWIW: I used to use porch and floor paint all the time. I'm beginning
            to
            > care more about looks and saving time nowadays; even if it costs a bit
            more.
            >
            > Hajo
            > --
            > "Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat." (L.
            Tomlin)
            >
            >
            > On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Michael vanbreilingtrio@... wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > I would recommend using "marine" paint. It is more expensive but the
            > > results are a lot better.
            > >
            > > I used good latex paint on my first boat. It held up well even left
            in the
            > > water all summer but was not at all glossy and did not show the boat
            to its
            > > best advantage. It did provide adequate protection from the elements
            and
            > > against rot.
            > >
            > > I bought a quart of "marine" paint for the next build. One quart
            covered
            > > over glass set in epoxy as well as a half gallon of latex. The paint
            was
            > > glossy and set the boat off to its best advantage. The marine paint
            costs
            > > more but in my opinion given the amount of work that goes into a
            boat a few
            > > dollars more for a much prettier result is well worth it.
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Hajo Smulders
            It s glossier than an oil based house paint. Doing a roll and dip you have to get VERY close to see that it has been brushed on. (It self levels well). I
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 2, 2011
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              It's glossier than an oil based house paint. Doing a roll and dip you have
              to get VERY close to see that it has been brushed on. (It self levels well).

              I bought some for my breach cat to try out before I paint my Cape Dory
              Typhoon this winter.
              I'm very happy with it. Now I don't know how long it will last, UV
              resistance etc... I ASSUME however that it will be superior to a porch and
              floor enamel (which costs the same)

              Hajo
              --
              �Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat.� (L. Tomlin)


              On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 10:42 PM, prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              >
              > Hajo,
              >
              > I agree alkyd marine might be the way to go. Especially at that price!
              > Alkyds use organic oils (Like linseed) rather than petroleum based so
              > one might consider them more environmentally friendly. Epoxy of course
              > is petroleum based so alkyds should be compatible I would think.
              >
              > Organic oil-based paints may take a bit longer to fully harden as they
              > use organic alcohol as the evaporant and may not be quite as glossy as
              > other petroleum based marine paints with evaporants that cure faster.
              >
              > Raka products seem like a really good line.
              >
              > Nels
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • prairiedog2332
              I think a lighter color paint stands up longer than a dark color. It is quite amazing how hot a dark surface can get under a direct summer sun. It may also
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 2, 2011
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                I think a lighter color paint stands up longer than a dark color. It is quite amazing how hot a dark surface can get under a direct summer sun. It may also adversely affect the epoxy and wood encapsulation under the paint. The grain swells and the epoxy might possibly soften as the surface temperature goes up.

                Nels

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Hajo Smulders <hajosmulders@...> wrote:
                >
                > It's glossier than an oil based house paint. Doing a roll and dip you have
                > to get VERY close to see that it has been brushed on. (It self levels well).
                >
                > I bought some for my breach cat to try out before I paint my Cape Dory
                > Typhoon this winter.
                > I'm very happy with it. Now I don't know how long it will last, UV
                > resistance etc... I ASSUME however that it will be superior to a porch and
                > floor enamel (which costs the same)
                >
                > Hajo
                > --
                > "Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat." (L. Tomlin)
                >
              • John Huft
                 a lighter color paint stands up longer than a dark color You d better believe it, especially here on the FL Gulf Coast.  It gets Africa hot here! John Boy
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 2, 2011
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                   a lighter color paint stands up longer than a dark color

                  You'd better believe it, especially here on the FL Gulf Coast.  It gets Africa hot here!
                  John Boy
                   



                  You can trust me, I have a degree in science...




                  ________________________________
                  From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Wilderness Voice
                  If you get Sam Devlins book on boat building, he has a whole chapter on the procedures to how he gets his paint job including recommending products. Sam is
                  Message 8 of 28 , Oct 2, 2011
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                    If you get Sam Devlins book on boat building, he has a whole chapter on the procedures to how he gets his paint job including recommending products.
                    Sam is from Olympia, Washington and is famous for his paint jobs. His shop is about an hour from me.

                    It is not about a cheap paint job or a quick and dirty one, but if you want a beautiful paint job, I suggest getting his book which has alot of other good information in it as well.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Murray
                    I can testify to Sam Devlin s beautiful paint jobs as I bought an Oarling from him in the spring. He used Kirby for the outside of the hull and Top Secret one
                    Message 9 of 28 , Oct 3, 2011
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                      I can testify to Sam Devlin's beautiful paint jobs as I bought an Oarling from him in the spring. He used Kirby for the outside of the hull and Top Secret one part epoxy for the bottom and inside the hull. I don't know what he used for a primer though, never thought to ask him.

                      Murray


                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Wilderness Voice <thewildernessvoice@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > If you get Sam Devlins book on boat building, he has a whole chapter on the procedures to how he gets his paint job including recommending products.
                      > Sam is from Olympia, Washington and is famous for his paint jobs. His shop is about an hour from me.
                      >
                      > It is not about a cheap paint job or a quick and dirty one, but if you want a beautiful paint job, I suggest getting his book which has alot of other good information in it as well.
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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