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Re: [Michalak] Design Question

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  • john colley
    Electric Mundoo is a very good example of electric powered craft.It uses it s batteries low along the keel as ballast too.I guess it depends on where you are
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 7, 2011
      Electric Mundoo is a very good example of electric powered craft.It uses it's batteries low along the keel as ballast too.I guess it depends on where you are too,as the mundoo is built for the Murray river and Australian clear skies.Enough area for solar pannels is also a point to remember.



      ________________________________
      From: KEN <rekkamurd@...>
      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2011 12:21 PM
      Subject: Re: [Michalak] Design Question


       
      something like that, enough deck area for 150% of your motors wattage because youre going to lose some of it any direction youre heading, more in mornings and late afternoons.
      -thats just blatantly obvious if thinking nonstop running, or potentially charging some while running too.
      speedwise, long and narrow of course, 20 ft and maybe just 40-42" wide beam, fine entry and exit, with as much waterline as possible, as slick as possible too. I'd want the bow and stern to run 1/2" to  1" deep is all, and a long very shallow rocker, very shallow V form or maybe shallow convex, chine to chine. theres places to look online about efficient canoes.
      straighter line keels are faster than rockered, maneuverability suffers.
      this is thinking planing isnt the intention, faster displacement speeds on low power.
      http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24voltmotors.html%c2%a0 has some pretty good motor battery speed controller packages, 900 watts is 1.2hp, that'll sure drain some battery!
       
      http://go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm%c2%a0I used for an electric I've just built for estimating speed. 400w (36lb thrust minn kota) is .52hp and with a 600lb all up load, 275 constant, estimated max speed is 8mph. thats hull, motor, battery, 2 persons aboard, and some gear. attached rar with photo's of latest toy. cool toy, bad camera.

      --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Robb A <robb@...> wrote:

      From: Robb A <robb@...>
      Subject: [Michalak] Design Question
      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, June 6, 2011, 8:08 PM

       

      I already have a few things in mind that I'd like to build but I'm gonna ask this question. Its always nice to hear other peoples opinions and sometimes you realize something that you would have missed. If you were gonna build something with maximum speed ability from solar electric drive, what would it be? Needs to be stable and have decent camping gear carrying ability. Robb

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Frank Swygert
      The Mundoo is a bit large at 30-35 . Something similar built on a Sneakeasy hull would work though. It s only 24 . For electric use the hull design but not the
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 7, 2011
        The Mundoo is a bit large at 30-35'. Something similar built on a
        Sneakeasy hull would work though. It's only 24'. For electric use the
        hull design but not the covered deck in front. The box keel style could
        be used with the keel deepened for batteries. Change to an open cockpit
        or move the cockpit well forward like a scaled down Mundoo. The
        Sneakeasy is more or less a scaled down Tennessee anyway, which is the
        basis for the Mundoo.

        --
        Frank Swygert
        Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
        Magazine (AMC)
        For all AMC enthusiasts
        http://www.amc-mag.com
        (free download available!)
      • KEN
        I liked the mundoo designs, theyre a bit large at 30-35 ft lengths. narrowing electron for more efficiency, maybe shortening its side height for windage and
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 7, 2011
          I liked the mundoo designs, theyre "a bit" large at 30-35 ft lengths. narrowing electron for more efficiency, maybe shortening its side height for windage and keeping it lighter could be a neat project too. my latest electric is built around a 36lb thrust minn-kota, is 400w about .52hp. about the biggest they go in 12v is 55lb thrust, is about 600w and .75hp.
           
          going slightly narrower and lighter, I think the idea would probably do better with less rocker
           to get more waterline length. from the photo with 2 aboard (kid sized sitting on bow) the bow is a lot off the water, it'd catch a lot of little surface slap like that is probably more drag than if the cutwater were down in it 1-2". I'd want the transom barely off the water too.
          3/8" floors (or doubled luan) and 6mm luan for everything else can be done with stickers put in all the right places (like mini wall studs), then glass skinned, would come up light.
          -to be fair, thats a big guy right at the transom in the pic too-
           
          range-speed considerations are also a matter of how much drag, how much water displaced shoved down and aside, how water 're-forms' in its wake too. I dont remember which forum, but the guys were doing simple physical mods to the trolling motor post. I'd faired mine with 'bondo-glass' then cloth+resin covered, the () shape supposed to be 1/4 the drag of the O shape of the stock post, with less cavitation into the top of the prop too. the projected range expectations of the mini is 18 to 35 miles depending on speeds used, on a single marine battery, run time 3 to 11 hours. that'd change real fast with solar cells (not that I intend to, 2 batteries aboard will do plenty).
           
          harbor freight panels, about 3 sq ft puts out 15 watts 12-16v. 4 of em across the rear of the cabin for 60w, about the same on the roof of the slot cuddy for 120w.. it doesnt seem like much "power".. but considering how my 36lb thrust minn-kota trolling motor is:
          speed 5 400w, speed 4 200w, speed 3 100w, speed 2 50w, speed 1 25w...
          speeds 1-2-3 gets you around, speed 4 even better, then its a BIG jump with speed 5.
          (the wattage may not be perfectly accurate, it seems about right for behavior)
          with good sun, speeds 1-2-3 would be supported by the panels in the 2-3-4 mph range, with battery drain cut in half at speed 4, can be 5.5-6mph. it only gets tougher with a larger heavier craft needing more power, but I'd tend to think some creative massaging of Electron could be pretty good for smaller and solar power running+assist.
           
          Robb, is thinking camping gear, might also think slot cuddy..
          http://go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm%c2%a0calculator,
          at 620 lbs (running solo), .25hp (200w), hull constant 275 (hoping!), the speed projected is up to 6mph. 630 to 930 lbs in the 5mph range. thats 36lb thrust minn-kota, speed 4.
          690 lbs with .52hp creeping in at a potential 8 mph. (a weight almost doable solo!)
          same projections for .375hp (300w) jump to 7mph at 670lb load, with 680 to 930 lbs in the 6mph range. 780 lbs with .75hp touching 9mph. (potentially 2 aboard)
          doubtful the trolling motor prop has the pitch to make that kind of speed of course..
          so yes those projections can be a bit "over optimistic".
               JM's Electron is about 2hp electric with a team of 6 batteries (400 lbs right there) about 67lb each, using 1/2 the motors power.
          1-2 batteries and 8 15w panels is going to weigh a lot less, want less rocker, and with lower power, also want less beam. lighter would also get blown around more unless it got a haircut.. "HEY JIM.. howabout an "electron mark2"?  with a motor well "ala trover" the driver passenger weight more forward for minn-kota endura extendable tiller, or very small 4 stroke outboard, even though it'd be kind of a relative to a wide canoe.. lateral stability in other boats wakes might be compensated with lower seats too tho...
          (gee have i babbled enough yet?)

          --- On Tue, 6/7/11, john colley <Helliconia54@...> wrote:


          From: john colley <Helliconia54@...>
          Subject: Re: [Michalak] Design Question
          To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 5:02 AM


           



          Electric Mundoo is a very good example of electric powered craft.It uses it's batteries low along the keel as ballast too.I guess it depends on where you are too,as the mundoo is built for the Murray river and Australian clear skies.Enough area for solar pannels is also a point to remember.

          ________________________________
          From: KEN <rekkamurd@...>
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2011 12:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [Michalak] Design Question

           
          something like that, enough deck area for 150% of your motors wattage because youre going to lose some of it any direction youre heading, more in mornings and late afternoons.
          -thats just blatantly obvious if thinking nonstop running, or potentially charging some while running too.
          speedwise, long and narrow of course, 20 ft and maybe just 40-42" wide beam, fine entry and exit, with as much waterline as possible, as slick as possible too. I'd want the bow and stern to run 1/2" to  1" deep is all, and a long very shallow rocker, very shallow V form or maybe shallow convex, chine to chine. theres places to look online about efficient canoes.
          straighter line keels are faster than rockered, maneuverability suffers.
          this is thinking planing isnt the intention, faster displacement speeds on low power.
          http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24voltmotors.html%c2%a0 has some pretty good motor battery speed controller packages, 900 watts is 1.2hp, that'll sure drain some battery!
           
          http://go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm%c2%a0I used for an electric I've just built for estimating speed. 400w (36lb thrust minn kota) is .52hp and with a 600lb all up load, 275 constant, estimated max speed is 8mph. thats hull, motor, battery, 2 persons aboard, and some gear. attached rar with photo's of latest toy. cool toy, bad camera.

          --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Robb A <robb@...> wrote:

          From: Robb A <robb@...>
          Subject: [Michalak] Design Question
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, June 6, 2011, 8:08 PM

           

          I already have a few things in mind that I'd like to build but I'm gonna ask this question. Its always nice to hear other peoples opinions and sometimes you realize something that you would have missed. If you were gonna build something with maximum speed ability from solar electric drive, what would it be? Needs to be stable and have decent camping gear carrying ability. Robb

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • KEN
          sneakeasy is a cool small power design too, that box keel sure lends lengthwise rigidity with lighter materials, as well as the possibility for putting in
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 7, 2011
            sneakeasy is a cool small power design too, that box keel sure lends lengthwise rigidity with lighter materials, as well as the possibility for putting in whatever kind of rocker you might (or not) want at whim.

            --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Frank Swygert <farna@...> wrote:


            From: Frank Swygert <farna@...>
            Subject: [Michalak] re: Design Question
            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 7:48 AM


             



            The Mundoo is a bit large at 30-35'. Something similar built on a
            Sneakeasy hull would work though. It's only 24'. For electric use the
            hull design but not the covered deck in front. The box keel style could
            be used with the keel deepened for batteries. Change to an open cockpit
            or move the cockpit well forward like a scaled down Mundoo. The
            Sneakeasy is more or less a scaled down Tennessee anyway, which is the
            basis for the Mundoo.

            --
            Frank Swygert
            Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
            Magazine (AMC)
            For all AMC enthusiasts
            http://www.amc-mag.com
            (free download available!)








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robb
            I think I may settle on a RB42. Does anyone know the displacement of this boat? Nice looking boat with what looks like added carrying capacity. A really big
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 7, 2011
              I think I may settle on a RB42. Does anyone know the displacement of this
              boat? Nice looking boat with what looks like added carrying capacity. A
              really big toto canoe. Robb


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "KEN" <rekkamurd@...>
              To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 9:31 AM
              Subject: Re: [Michalak] re: Design Question


              sneakeasy is a cool small power design too, that box keel sure lends
              lengthwise rigidity with lighter materials, as well as the possibility for
              putting in whatever kind of rocker you might (or not) want at whim.

              --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Frank Swygert <farna@...> wrote:


              From: Frank Swygert <farna@...>
              Subject: [Michalak] re: Design Question
              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 7:48 AM






              The Mundoo is a bit large at 30-35'. Something similar built on a
              Sneakeasy hull would work though. It's only 24'. For electric use the
              hull design but not the covered deck in front. The box keel style could
              be used with the keel deepened for batteries. Change to an open cockpit
              or move the cockpit well forward like a scaled down Mundoo. The
              Sneakeasy is more or less a scaled down Tennessee anyway, which is the
              basis for the Mundoo.

              --
              Frank Swygert
              Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
              Magazine (AMC)
              For all AMC enthusiasts
              http://www.amc-mag.com
              (free download available!)








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • KEN
              RB42 looks good for singe solar electric, real similar to Marksbark but wider. might be room for 4-5 1 x3 panels and still leave decent room for 2 and gear.
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 7, 2011
                RB42 looks good for singe solar electric, real similar to Marksbark but wider.
                might be room for 4-5 1'x3' panels and still leave decent room for 2 and gear.
                maybe 3 in back 2 up front for 75+ watts? little 30lb minn-kota a max of 330w..
                half (166) half (83) half (42) half (21) if I'm right about the speed-consumption breakdown.
                some of the older ones were 17 lb thrust 4 speed but still probably nicer to have more kick available on demand if needed.
                 
                you'd mentioned rougher water capability too, for that a dory also comes to mind.
                the 3SD over at "hannu's boatyard" site is pretty big from 3 sheets, or maybe big sister from 5 sheets. theyed get blown around more maybe, but they're pretty "known safe" in rougher larger water might be appealing (if you like how they look is a factor too).

                --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Robb <robb@...> wrote:


                From: Robb <robb@...>
                Subject: Re: [Michalak] re: Design Question
                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 7:17 PM


                 



                I think I may settle on a RB42. Does anyone know the displacement of this
                boat? Nice looking boat with what looks like added carrying capacity. A
                really big toto canoe. Robb

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "KEN" <rekkamurd@...>
                To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 9:31 AM
                Subject: Re: [Michalak] re: Design Question

                sneakeasy is a cool small power design too, that box keel sure lends
                lengthwise rigidity with lighter materials, as well as the possibility for
                putting in whatever kind of rocker you might (or not) want at whim.

                --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Frank Swygert <farna@...> wrote:

                From: Frank Swygert <farna@...>
                Subject: [Michalak] re: Design Question
                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 7:48 AM

                The Mundoo is a bit large at 30-35'. Something similar built on a
                Sneakeasy hull would work though. It's only 24'. For electric use the
                hull design but not the covered deck in front. The box keel style could
                be used with the keel deepened for batteries. Change to an open cockpit
                or move the cockpit well forward like a scaled down Mundoo. The
                Sneakeasy is more or less a scaled down Tennessee anyway, which is the
                basis for the Mundoo.

                --
                Frank Swygert
                Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
                Magazine (AMC)
                For all AMC enthusiasts
                http://www.amc-mag.com
                (free download available!)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Graham Parton
                Hi all, I realised that one boat will not meet all my needs so why not plan to build two! Am I mistaken in thinking that Toon 2 is pretty much Ladybug with a
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 17, 2014
                  Hi all,

                  I realised that one boat will not meet all my needs so why not plan to build two!

                  Am I mistaken in thinking that Toon 2 is pretty much Ladybug with a cuddy/cabin; or is there more to it?

                  cheers,

                  Graham
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