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Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges

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  • Bill Howard
    I am building a 1/8 scale model of Jim Michalak s Picara design. This has been an educational build. What I learned would convince me to never start a full
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 28, 2011
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      I am building a 1/8 scale model of Jim Michalak's Picara design. This has
      been an educational build. What I learned would convince me to never start a
      full size boat without building a model first.

      Questions for all you experienced builders and sailors:

      How does one get water out of the bilges? I just turn my June Bug upside
      down to put it on top of my CRV, and any drops fall out.

      But what to do about casual water in the bilges of a 1300 lb boat?

      My fiberglass Daysailer had a bilge plug in the transom for this purpose;
      when on the trailer this was the low point, and water fell out.

      What is the secret for larger wood boats?

      Thanks for your help.

      Bill Howard
      Nellysford VA




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John and Kathy Trussell
      Bill, It is simple enough to install drain plugs in plywood boats. Buy a drain pipe, drill the appropriate sized hole in what you expect the low point to be
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 28, 2011
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        Bill,



        It is simple enough to install drain plugs in plywood boats. Buy a drain
        pipe, drill the appropriate sized hole in what you expect the low point to
        be while the boat is on a trailer, slather the hole and drain with thickened
        epoxy, and install the plug. Back it with screws or bolts if you are so
        inclined. Sometimes it is useful to install more than one drain. It is
        usually prudent to keep a couple of spare plug or two (or a knife to whittle
        a plug out of a limb-don't ask me how I know).



        Underway or in the water, a large sponge and bucket will allow you to soak
        up 'a few drops' and the bucket will work if it is more than a few drops.



        JohnT





        _____

        From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Bill Howard
        Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:12 PM
        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Michalak] Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges





        I am building a 1/8 scale model of Jim Michalak's Picara design. This has
        been an educational build. What I learned would convince me to never start a
        full size boat without building a model first.

        Questions for all you experienced builders and sailors:

        How does one get water out of the bilges? I just turn my June Bug upside
        down to put it on top of my CRV, and any drops fall out.

        But what to do about casual water in the bilges of a 1300 lb boat?

        My fiberglass Daysailer had a bilge plug in the transom for this purpose;
        when on the trailer this was the low point, and water fell out.

        What is the secret for larger wood boats?

        Thanks for your help.

        Bill Howard
        Nellysford VA

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bill Howard
        John: Thanks. I was not sure this was a good idea on a wooden boat. You and another experienced wooden boat owner have set mind at ease. Bill On Mon, Mar 28,
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 29, 2011
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          John:

          Thanks. I was not sure this was a good idea on a wooden boat. You and
          another experienced wooden boat owner have set mind at ease.

          Bill

          On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:37 PM, John and Kathy Trussell <
          jtrussell2@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Bill,
          >
          > It is simple enough to install drain plugs in plywood boats. Buy a drain
          > pipe, drill the appropriate sized hole in what you expect the low point to
          > be while the boat is on a trailer, slather the hole and drain with
          > thickened
          > epoxy, and install the plug. Back it with screws or bolts if you are so
          > inclined. Sometimes it is useful to install more than one drain. It is
          > usually prudent to keep a couple of spare plug or two (or a knife to
          > whittle
          > a plug out of a limb-don't ask me how I know).
          >
          > Underway or in the water, a large sponge and bucket will allow you to soak
          > up 'a few drops' and the bucket will work if it is more than a few drops.
          >
          > JohnT
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of Bill Howard
          > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:12 PM
          > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Michalak] Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges
          >
          >
          > I am building a 1/8 scale model of Jim Michalak's Picara design. This has
          > been an educational build. What I learned would convince me to never start
          > a
          > full size boat without building a model first.
          >
          > Questions for all you experienced builders and sailors:
          >
          > How does one get water out of the bilges? I just turn my June Bug upside
          > down to put it on top of my CRV, and any drops fall out.
          >
          > But what to do about casual water in the bilges of a 1300 lb boat?
          >
          > My fiberglass Daysailer had a bilge plug in the transom for this purpose;
          > when on the trailer this was the low point, and water fell out.
          >
          > What is the secret for larger wood boats?
          >
          > Thanks for your help.
          >
          > Bill Howard
          > Nellysford VA
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • daniel brown
          i have used wine bottle cork drains with success on my sunfish and my 16 plywood skiff, both have been corked for more than 20 years. simply drill a 13/16
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 30, 2011
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            i have used wine bottle cork drains with success on my sunfish and my 16' plywood skiff, both have been 'corked' for more than 20 years. simply drill a 13/16" hole in the transom as low as is practical, slather the rim of the hole with thickened epoxy, insert a greased cork from the outside (i use vaseline). i prefer natural wood corks but plastic ones work too. i've never had one accidentally fall out, and i use my boats often. heres the skiff, http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2184906140053419764jRsaTi?vhost=outdoors

            > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            > From: billh39@...
            > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:22:12 -0400
            > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges
            >
            > John:
            >
            > Thanks. I was not sure this was a good idea on a wooden boat. You and
            > another experienced wooden boat owner have set mind at ease.
            >
            > Bill
            >
            > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:37 PM, John and Kathy Trussell <
            > jtrussell2@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Bill,
            > >
            > > It is simple enough to install drain plugs in plywood boats. Buy a drain
            > > pipe, drill the appropriate sized hole in what you expect the low point to
            > > be while the boat is on a trailer, slather the hole and drain with
            > > thickened
            > > epoxy, and install the plug. Back it with screws or bolts if you are so
            > > inclined. Sometimes it is useful to install more than one drain. It is
            > > usually prudent to keep a couple of spare plug or two (or a knife to
            > > whittle
            > > a plug out of a limb-don't ask me how I know).
            > >
            > > Underway or in the water, a large sponge and bucket will allow you to soak
            > > up 'a few drops' and the bucket will work if it is more than a few drops.
            > >
            > > JohnT
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > > Of Bill Howard
            > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:12 PM
            > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [Michalak] Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges
            > >
            > >
            > > I am building a 1/8 scale model of Jim Michalak's Picara design. This has
            > > been an educational build. What I learned would convince me to never start
            > > a
            > > full size boat without building a model first.
            > >
            > > Questions for all you experienced builders and sailors:
            > >
            > > How does one get water out of the bilges? I just turn my June Bug upside
            > > down to put it on top of my CRV, and any drops fall out.
            > >
            > > But what to do about casual water in the bilges of a 1300 lb boat?
            > >
            > > My fiberglass Daysailer had a bilge plug in the transom for this purpose;
            > > when on the trailer this was the low point, and water fell out.
            > >
            > > What is the secret for larger wood boats?
            > >
            > > Thanks for your help.
            > >
            > > Bill Howard
            > > Nellysford VA
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • KEN
            hardware store here has the rubber lever compressing plugs, and 3/4 PVC connectors are cheep enough, rough it up good and plant it with epoxy. most have a
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 30, 2011
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              hardware store here has the rubber lever compressing plugs, and 3/4" PVC connectors are cheep enough, rough it up good and plant it with epoxy. most have a center ridge inside but thats not too tough to get rid of with a drill, chances are you'd only want 1/2 the couplers length too (hacksaw!). if the transom is thin, scuff up a spot for a small square of ply to thicken it up if needed. easy enough to grab a coupler, and test fit a plug in the store.
               
              last one I picked up was red nylon-plastic bodied, it was a surprise to me that it was also twist-adjustable for its expansion/tension, just like the metal ones are. it also has a small hole in its end, very convenient for tying a bit of nylon cord and a bit of dowel to, so it isnt lost if it DOES somehow manage to pop loose. it was about 5 bucks.
               
              small electric bilge pumps arent all that spendy, rather have it and never need it than vice-versa! 360 gallon per hour is 6 gallon per minute, and probably faster than I could do with a good sized baling cup.. which is also aboard just in case.

              --- On Wed, 3/30/11, daniel brown <dannyb9@...> wrote:


              From: daniel brown <dannyb9@...>
              Subject: RE: [Michalak] Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges
              To: michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 7:49 AM


               




              i have used wine bottle cork drains with success on my sunfish and my 16' plywood skiff, both have been 'corked' for more than 20 years. simply drill a 13/16" hole in the transom as low as is practical, slather the rim of the hole with thickened epoxy, insert a greased cork from the outside (i use vaseline). i prefer natural wood corks but plastic ones work too. i've never had one accidentally fall out, and i use my boats often. heres the skiff, http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2184906140053419764jRsaTi?vhost=outdoors

              > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              > From: billh39@...
              > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:22:12 -0400
              > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges
              >
              > John:
              >
              > Thanks. I was not sure this was a good idea on a wooden boat. You and
              > another experienced wooden boat owner have set mind at ease.
              >
              > Bill
              >
              > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:37 PM, John and Kathy Trussell <
              > jtrussell2@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Bill,
              > >
              > > It is simple enough to install drain plugs in plywood boats. Buy a drain
              > > pipe, drill the appropriate sized hole in what you expect the low point to
              > > be while the boat is on a trailer, slather the hole and drain with
              > > thickened
              > > epoxy, and install the plug. Back it with screws or bolts if you are so
              > > inclined. Sometimes it is useful to install more than one drain. It is
              > > usually prudent to keep a couple of spare plug or two (or a knife to
              > > whittle
              > > a plug out of a limb-don't ask me how I know).
              > >
              > > Underway or in the water, a large sponge and bucket will allow you to soak
              > > up 'a few drops' and the bucket will work if it is more than a few drops.
              > >
              > > JohnT
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              > > Of Bill Howard
              > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:12 PM
              > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [Michalak] Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges
              > >
              > >
              > > I am building a 1/8 scale model of Jim Michalak's Picara design. This has
              > > been an educational build. What I learned would convince me to never start
              > > a
              > > full size boat without building a model first.
              > >
              > > Questions for all you experienced builders and sailors:
              > >
              > > How does one get water out of the bilges? I just turn my June Bug upside
              > > down to put it on top of my CRV, and any drops fall out.
              > >
              > > But what to do about casual water in the bilges of a 1300 lb boat?
              > >
              > > My fiberglass Daysailer had a bilge plug in the transom for this purpose;
              > > when on the trailer this was the low point, and water fell out.
              > >
              > > What is the secret for larger wood boats?
              > >
              > > Thanks for your help.
              > >
              > > Bill Howard
              > > Nellysford VA
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • JeffreyM
              I like my drain plugs. I d suggest you actually put the boat and trailer in its accustomed place with usual tongue support, and pour a little water in the
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 30, 2011
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                I like my drain plugs. I'd suggest you actually put the boat and trailer in its accustomed place with usual tongue support, and pour a little water in the bilge to find the lowest place for sure. (If you get it a little wrong, that little puddle NEXT to the drain is annoying.) I also wouldn't bother about the pipe. I use a 1" brace and bit to bore a hole in wood thick enough to seat the plug firmly, then slather with epoxy then follow with thickened epoxy. Then one of Duckworks' T-top plugs. Mine don't leak a single drop underway. DO keep an extra plug in your on-board kit!
                Jeff MB


                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                >
                > Bill,
                >
                >
                >
                > It is simple enough to install drain plugs in plywood boats. Buy a drain
                > pipe, drill the appropriate sized hole in what you expect the low point to
                > be while the boat is on a trailer, slather the hole and drain with thickened
                > epoxy, and install the plug. Back it with screws or bolts if you are so
                > inclined. Sometimes it is useful to install more than one drain. It is
                > usually prudent to keep a couple of spare plug or two (or a knife to whittle
                > a plug out of a limb-don't ask me how I know).
                >
                >
                >
                > Underway or in the water, a large sponge and bucket will allow you to soak
                > up 'a few drops' and the bucket will work if it is more than a few drops.
                >
                >
                >
                > JohnT
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                > Of Bill Howard
                > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:12 PM
                > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [Michalak] Fwd: [bolger] Dry Bilges
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I am building a 1/8 scale model of Jim Michalak's Picara design. This has
                > been an educational build. What I learned would convince me to never start a
                > full size boat without building a model first.
                >
                > Questions for all you experienced builders and sailors:
                >
                > How does one get water out of the bilges? I just turn my June Bug upside
                > down to put it on top of my CRV, and any drops fall out.
                >
                > But what to do about casual water in the bilges of a 1300 lb boat?
                >
                > My fiberglass Daysailer had a bilge plug in the transom for this purpose;
                > when on the trailer this was the low point, and water fell out.
                >
                > What is the secret for larger wood boats?
                >
                > Thanks for your help.
                >
                > Bill Howard
                > Nellysford VA
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • prairiedog2332
                Bill, Great suggestion about building a model first. Especially with Michalak and Bolger designs as they often share characteristics that seem odd at first and
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 30, 2011
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                  Bill,

                  Great suggestion about building a model first. Especially with Michalak
                  and Bolger designs as they often share characteristics that seem odd at
                  first and even counter-intuitive but in use are very practical.

                  I don't have Picara plans but looking at Dave's photos of "Mattie
                  Cooper" it looks like there are a lot of water drains (scuppers) along
                  the topsides. Two in the forward well and two in the stern that also
                  serve as hawes pipes for anchor lines and three scuppers each side
                  along the aft deck. The deck scuppers explain why there is the slot
                  under the backrests so that water goes out through the scuppers. I don't
                  quite like that set-up as leaves and other crap can accumulate under
                  there so one has to keep an eye on that.

                  I would spend a lot of time building watertight slot and companionway
                  covers so little if any water gets inside the sleeping space and then
                  gets mopped up as soon as noticed. Dave seems to have hard slot covers
                  on his build or maybe has closed the slot and has sliding hatches and
                  drop boards instead. Hard to tell. Would be a great idea to contact him.

                  Another factor is ventilation, especially in a wooden boat. You need
                  flow-through ventilation that allows air movment yet keeps out water.
                  The Wiley-type port is what Bolger uses. There is a folder in files with
                  one way to make them but they can be simplified.

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/Wiley%20Port%20and%20Bolger\
                  %20Hatch/

                  The other thing is never trust a poly tarp to last for long as a boat
                  cover! Don't ask how I learned that lesson. THe best solution for a
                  wooden hull is canvas that breathes and a proper frame under that does
                  not allow water to stand on it.

                  Picara in my view is one of Jim's best efforts so taking the extra time
                  to do it right will result in a boat that will last a very long time and
                  handle some big weather with ease.

                  Nels


                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Bill Howard <billh39@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am building a 1/8 scale model of Jim Michalak's Picara design. This
                  has
                  > been an educational build. What I learned would convince me to never
                  start a
                  > full size boat without building a model first.
                  >
                  > Questions for all you experienced builders and sailors:
                  >
                  > How does one get water out of the bilges? I just turn my June Bug
                  upside
                  > down to put it on top of my CRV, and any drops fall out.
                  >
                  > But what to do about casual water in the bilges of a 1300 lb boat?
                  >
                  > My fiberglass Daysailer had a bilge plug in the transom for this
                  purpose;
                  > when on the trailer this was the low point, and water fell out.
                  >
                  > What is the secret for larger wood boats?
                  >
                  > Thanks for your help.
                  >
                  > Bill Howard
                  > Nellysford VA
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
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