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Getting a smooth surface to epoxy finish.

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  • can14riv
    Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy coatings to the hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out. I have applied two
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 5, 2010
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      Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy coatings to the hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out.

      I have applied two coats of epoxy to the hull, sanding the runs between coats. It maybe I am simply trying to apply too thick a coat at one time, however, it seems like sanding removes what I just put on( I am not sanding to the point of going into the wood there still epoxy covered wood). My goal in this project is three coats of epoxy then paint the hull. The requirement for the final coat of epoxy may not be as critical as that for a bright finish. I tried using foam and cheap bristle bushes for application. There must be a better technique to apply epoxy ( than what I am doing) to minimize sanding. Bob
    • John and Kathy Trussell
      Try applying epoxy with a 4 foam roller. This will inevitably leave a stippled or orange peel surface, but will minimize runs. Orange peel is easier to sand
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 5, 2010
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        Try applying epoxy with a 4" foam roller. This will inevitably leave a
        stippled or orange peel surface, but will minimize runs. Orange peel is
        easier to sand than runs. Epoxy and sanding seem to go together. Sandpaper
        is cheap. Buy it in quantity and change it often. My implement of choice is
        a random orbiter sander set up to vent into a shop vac-keeps the dust down,
        but you still need to wear a mask. There is a well known Chebacco boat named
        "Itchy and Scratchy".



        JohnT



        _____

        From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of can14riv
        Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:45 PM
        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Michalak] Getting a smooth surface to epoxy finish.





        Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy coatings to the
        hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out.

        I have applied two coats of epoxy to the hull, sanding the runs between
        coats. It maybe I am simply trying to apply too thick a coat at one time,
        however, it seems like sanding removes what I just put on( I am not sanding
        to the point of going into the wood there still epoxy covered wood). My goal
        in this project is three coats of epoxy then paint the hull. The requirement
        for the final coat of epoxy may not be as critical as that for a bright
        finish. I tried using foam and cheap bristle bushes for application. There
        must be a better technique to apply epoxy ( than what I am doing) to
        minimize sanding. Bob





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Hajo Smulders
        Epoxy runs for hours after applying. You can watch like a hawk and run your brush regularly over the work till it gums up (I don t recommend this); OR use a
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 5, 2010
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          Epoxy runs for hours after applying. You can watch like a hawk and run your
          brush regularly over the work till it gums up (I don't recommend this); OR
          use a squeegie. I apply with a brush and then squeegie over it. It gets rid
          of quite a bit of epoxy (Lighter!) and keeps that excess epoxy from running.
          I use the pink body work squeegies one can buy at automotive do-it-yourself
          stores.


          Hajo
          --
          "People [are] being persuaded to spend money we don't have, on things we
          don't need, to create impressions that won't last, on people we don't care
          about." (Tim Jackson)


          On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:44 PM, can14riv <kirkerpoint@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy coatings to the
          > hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out.
          >
          > I have applied two coats of epoxy to the hull, sanding the runs between
          > coats. It maybe I am simply trying to apply too thick a coat at one time,
          > however, it seems like sanding removes what I just put on( I am not sanding
          > to the point of going into the wood there still epoxy covered wood). My goal
          > in this project is three coats of epoxy then paint the hull. The requirement
          > for the final coat of epoxy may not be as critical as that for a bright
          > finish. I tried using foam and cheap bristle bushes for application. There
          > must be a better technique to apply epoxy ( than what I am doing) to
          > minimize sanding. Bob
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • prairiedog2332
          You can add a thickener to the 2nd and 3rd applications to lessen runs and sags. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/supplies/additives/silica/index.htm Also they can
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 5, 2010
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            You can add a thickener to the 2nd and 3rd applications to lessen runs
            and sags.

            http://www.duckworksbbs.com/supplies/additives/silica/index.htm

            Also they can be scraped off smooth with a scraper when the epoxy is at
            the green stage, rather than having to sand.

            What are the supposed advantages of applying several coats of epoxy over
            plywood anyway if you are painting with a waterproof paint?

            Nels

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Hajo Smulders <hajosmulders@...> wrote:
            >
            > Epoxy runs for hours after applying. You can watch like a hawk and run
            your
            > brush regularly over the work till it gums up (I don't recommend
            this); OR
            > use a squeegie. I apply with a brush and then squeegie over it. It
            gets rid
            > of quite a bit of epoxy (Lighter!) and keeps that excess epoxy from
            running.
            > I use the pink body work squeegies one can buy at automotive
            do-it-yourself
            > stores.
            >
            >
            > Hajo
            > --
            > "People [are] being persuaded to spend money we don't have, on things
            we
            > don't need, to create impressions that won't last, on people we don't
            care
            > about." (Tim Jackson)
            >
            >
            > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:44 PM, can14riv kirkerpoint@... wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy coatings
            to the
            > > hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out.
            > >
            > > I have applied two coats of epoxy to the hull, sanding the runs
            between
            > > coats. It maybe I am simply trying to apply too thick a coat at one
            time,
            > > however, it seems like sanding removes what I just put on( I am not
            sanding
            > > to the point of going into the wood there still epoxy covered wood).
            My goal
            > > in this project is three coats of epoxy then paint the hull. The
            requirement
            > > for the final coat of epoxy may not be as critical as that for a
            bright
            > > finish. I tried using foam and cheap bristle bushes for application.
            There
            > > must be a better technique to apply epoxy ( than what I am doing) to
            > > minimize sanding. Bob
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Andres Espino
            One coat to encapsulate the wood is enough, but if you are forced to sand half of it off to smooth it then you end up doing several coats.  I think most
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 5, 2010
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              One coat to encapsulate the wood is enough, but if you are forced to sand half of it off to smooth it then you end up doing several coats.  I think most people use thickener which is what we must add to make fillets in stitch and glue boats.  As I read about it... seems you only add a small amount to reduce runs.

              Andrew


              --- On Tue, 10/5/10, prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...> wrote:

              From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
              Subject: [Michalak] Re: Getting a smooth surface to epoxy finish.
              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 2:26 PM







               









              You can add a thickener to the 2nd and 3rd applications to lessen runs

              and sags.



              http://www.duckworksbbs.com/supplies/additives/silica/index.htm



              Also they can be scraped off smooth with a scraper when the epoxy is at

              the green stage, rather than having to sand.



              What are the supposed advantages of applying several coats of epoxy over

              plywood anyway if you are painting with a waterproof paint?



              Nels



              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Hajo Smulders <hajosmulders@...> wrote:

              >

              > Epoxy runs for hours after applying. You can watch like a hawk and run

              your

              > brush regularly over the work till it gums up (I don't recommend

              this); OR

              > use a squeegie. I apply with a brush and then squeegie over it. It

              gets rid

              > of quite a bit of epoxy (Lighter!) and keeps that excess epoxy from

              running.

              > I use the pink body work squeegies one can buy at automotive

              do-it-yourself

              > stores.

              >

              >

              > Hajo

              > --

              > "People [are] being persuaded to spend money we don't have, on things

              we

              > don't need, to create impressions that won't last, on people we don't

              care

              > about." (Tim Jackson)

              >

              >

              > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:44 PM, can14riv kirkerpoint@... wrote:

              >

              > >

              > >

              > > Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy coatings

              to the

              > > hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out.

              > >

              > > I have applied two coats of epoxy to the hull, sanding the runs

              between

              > > coats. It maybe I am simply trying to apply too thick a coat at one

              time,

              > > however, it seems like sanding removes what I just put on( I am not

              sanding

              > > to the point of going into the wood there still epoxy covered wood).

              My goal

              > > in this project is three coats of epoxy then paint the hull. The

              requirement

              > > for the final coat of epoxy may not be as critical as that for a

              bright

              > > finish. I tried using foam and cheap bristle bushes for application.

              There

              > > must be a better technique to apply epoxy ( than what I am doing) to

              > > minimize sanding. Bob

              > >

              >

              >

              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              >

























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gary
              Bob: What epoxy are you using? I frequently use an inexpensive epoxy from Fiberglass Coatings Inc (www.fgci.com) that s pretty thick, even without fillers.
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 5, 2010
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                Bob:
                What epoxy are you using? I frequently use an inexpensive epoxy from Fiberglass Coatings Inc (www.fgci.com) that's pretty thick, even without fillers. When I paint it on a vertical surface, it always runs. Currently I'm using some epoxy from Duckworks and some MAS epoxy that I picked up on sale. With some care in application, I've not had any problems with either running, which simplifies finishing a lot. both are thinner than the FGCI stuff. Likewise WEST is an even thinner epoxy and I've no problems with it running. depending on the finish you want, it might be worth more to pay a little extra for thinner epoxy.

                Thinning thick epoxy with rubbing alcohol or acetone can help, but too much thinner could after the waterproofness of the coating.

                Gary

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "can14riv" <kirkerpoint@...> wrote:
                >
                > Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy coatings to the hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out.
                >
                > I have applied two coats of epoxy to the hull, sanding the runs between coats. It maybe I am simply trying to apply too thick a coat at one time, however, it seems like sanding removes what I just put on( I am not sanding to the point of going into the wood there still epoxy covered wood). My goal in this project is three coats of epoxy then paint the hull. The requirement for the final coat of epoxy may not be as critical as that for a bright finish. I tried using foam and cheap bristle bushes for application. There must be a better technique to apply epoxy ( than what I am doing) to minimize sanding. Bob
                >
              • prairiedog2332
                I think also if the hull is small enough you can tilt it so that you are applying the epoxy on a more level surface. Some builders recommend applying it to the
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 5, 2010
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                  I think also if the hull is small enough you can tilt it so that you are
                  applying the epoxy on a more level surface. Some builders recommend
                  applying it to the flat parts prior to assembly. The epoxy essentially
                  becomes the sealer prior to painting.

                  Nels


                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino
                  <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > One coat to encapsulate the wood is enough, but if you are forced to
                  sand half of it off to smooth it then you end up doing several
                  coats. I think most people use thickener which is what we must add
                  to make fillets in stitch and glue boats. As I read about it...
                  seems you only add a small amount to reduce runs.
                  >
                  > Andrew
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 10/5/10, prairiedog2332 nelsarv@... wrote:
                  >
                  > From: prairiedog2332 nelsarv@...
                  > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Getting a smooth surface to epoxy finish.
                  > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 2:26 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Â
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > You can add a thickener to the 2nd and 3rd applications to
                  lessen runs
                  >
                  > and sags.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/supplies/additives/silica/index.htm
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Also they can be scraped off smooth with a scraper when the epoxy is
                  at
                  >
                  > the green stage, rather than having to sand.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > What are the supposed advantages of applying several coats of epoxy
                  over
                  >
                  > plywood anyway if you are painting with a waterproof paint?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Nels
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Hajo Smulders hajosmulders@ wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Epoxy runs for hours after applying. You can watch like a hawk and
                  run
                  >
                  > your
                  >
                  > > brush regularly over the work till it gums up (I don't recommend
                  >
                  > this); OR
                  >
                  > > use a squeegie. I apply with a brush and then squeegie over it. It
                  >
                  > gets rid
                  >
                  > > of quite a bit of epoxy (Lighter!) and keeps that excess epoxy from
                  >
                  > running.
                  >
                  > > I use the pink body work squeegies one can buy at automotive
                  >
                  > do-it-yourself
                  >
                  > > stores.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Hajo
                  >
                  > > --
                  >
                  > > "People [are] being persuaded to spend money we don't have, on
                  things
                  >
                  > we
                  >
                  > > don't need, to create impressions that won't last, on people we
                  don't
                  >
                  > care
                  >
                  > > about." (Tim Jackson)
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:44 PM, can14riv kirkerpoint@ wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy
                  coatings
                  >
                  > to the
                  >
                  > > > hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > I have applied two coats of epoxy to the hull, sanding the runs
                  >
                  > between
                  >
                  > > > coats. It maybe I am simply trying to apply too thick a coat at
                  one
                  >
                  > time,
                  >
                  > > > however, it seems like sanding removes what I just put on( I am
                  not
                  >
                  > sanding
                  >
                  > > > to the point of going into the wood there still epoxy covered
                  wood).
                  >
                  > My goal
                  >
                  > > > in this project is three coats of epoxy then paint the hull. The
                  >
                  > requirement
                  >
                  > > > for the final coat of epoxy may not be as critical as that for a
                  >
                  > bright
                  >
                  > > > finish. I tried using foam and cheap bristle bushes for
                  application.
                  >
                  > There
                  >
                  > > > must be a better technique to apply epoxy ( than what I am doing)
                  to
                  >
                  > > > minimize sanding. Bob
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • David Calloway
                  Hi Bob, I use silica thickener for vertical surfaces. Just a little helps a great deal. Dave ... From: can14riv [mailto:kirkerpoint@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 5, 2010
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                    Hi Bob,

                    I use silica thickener for vertical surfaces. Just a little helps a great deal.

                    Dave

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: can14riv [mailto:kirkerpoint@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2010 09:44 AM
                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Michalak] Getting a smooth surface to epoxy finish.

                    Building a small rowboat at the present I am applying epoxy coatings to the hull,but experiencing runs in the finish which is sanded out.

                    I have applied two coats of epoxy to the hull, sanding the runs between coats. It maybe I am simply trying to apply too thick a coat at one time, however, it seems like sanding removes what I just put on( I am not sanding to the point of going into the wood there still epoxy covered wood). My goal in this project is three coats of epoxy then paint the hull. The requirement for the final coat of epoxy may not be as critical as that for a bright finish. I tried using foam and cheap bristle bushes for application. There must be a better technique to apply epoxy ( than what I am doing) to minimize sanding. Bob







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Dave Gentry
                    You can very easily get to the painting portion by not applying any more epoxy. To apply another coat is to needlessly add time, effort, weight and expense to
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 6, 2010
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                      You can very easily get to the painting portion by not applying any more epoxy. To apply another coat is to needlessly add time, effort, weight and expense to your project.

                      Otherwise:
                      Use a scraper on drips and runs, which will minimize sanding.
                      You can also try "peel ply" for an ultra smooth finish, assuming you do it right. Here's a link to the process: http://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/epoxy_and_fiberglass/peel-ply-release-fabric.html

                      There is also some good advice in the answers you have already been given. And some that is suspect. Caveat Emptor!

                      Good luck!
                      Dave Gentry
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