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Re: JB Jr. Experiences

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  • captreed@sbcglobal.net
    Yes, I m familar with the BW-2 anti-slap pad. I thought that on a JB Jr. hull it would be a massive affair. I ve put up a second picture of the modification
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 17, 2010
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      Yes, I'm familar with the BW-2 anti-slap pad. I thought that on a JB Jr. hull it would be a massive affair.

      I've put up a second picture of the modification so you can see it is made up of 4 pieces of plywood. I thought of just using 2 and rounding it, but that would have made figuring out the shape of the 2 and the internal frame difficult. As it is the 4 pieces are flat and the internal frame is just a triangle. Being hollow it adds very little weight to the bow.

      Reed
    • gary
      Reed: Interesting modification, especially since it eliminated pounding. Hope to hear further reports as you sail it more. Do you think this has made the boat
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 19, 2010
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        Reed:
        Interesting modification, especially since it eliminated pounding. Hope to hear further reports as you sail it more. Do you think this has made the boat more rough water capable?

        Gary

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes, I'm familar with the BW-2 anti-slap pad. I thought that on a JB Jr. hull it would be a massive affair.
        >
        > I've put up a second picture of the modification so you can see it is made up of 4 pieces of plywood. I thought of just using 2 and rounding it, but that would have made figuring out the shape of the 2 and the internal frame difficult. As it is the 4 pieces are flat and the internal frame is just a triangle. Being hollow it adds very little weight to the bow.
        >
        > Reed
        >
      • captreed@sbcglobal.net
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 19, 2010
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          << Do you think this has made the boat more rough water capable?

          Hi Gary,

          I haven't tested it out sufficiently yet. Except for the day I took the knockdown we haven't had enough wind recently.

          Part of the story is that Jim M. wanted me to build a Family Skiff with a birdwatcher cabin. After encountering the horrendous pounding I was beginning to think he was right, but I had been seduced by Rick Bedard's illustration of the benign way the boat laid down and it's instant knockdown recovery.

          I've had the boat outside the harbor a couple of times, but on pretty quiet days. I play to explore its capabilities on the real ocean over the next month.

          Reed
        • gary
          I ve wondered why no one has yet don a v-bottom birdwatcher type; it seems you d get a lot better ride for only a few more inches of draft . . . Gary
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 21, 2010
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            I've wondered why no one has yet don a v-bottom birdwatcher type; it seems you'd get a lot better ride for only a few more inches of draft . . .

            Gary


            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:
            >
            > << Do you think this has made the boat more rough water capable?
            >
            > Hi Gary,
            >
            > I haven't tested it out sufficiently yet. Except for the day I took the knockdown we haven't had enough wind recently.
            >
            > Part of the story is that Jim M. wanted me to build a Family Skiff with a birdwatcher cabin. After encountering the horrendous pounding I was beginning to think he was right, but I had been seduced by Rick Bedard's illustration of the benign way the boat laid down and it's instant knockdown recovery.
            >
            > I've had the boat outside the harbor a couple of times, but on pretty quiet days. I play to explore its capabilities on the real ocean over the next month.
            >
            > Reed
            >
          • captreed@sbcglobal.net
            ... Yeah. With stitch and glue it s and easy thing to do. I wonder if it would tend to ride to weather on the lee side of the bottom. I know my double chine
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 21, 2010
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              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@...> wrote:
              >
              > I've wondered why no one has yet don a v-bottom birdwatcher type; it seems you'd get a lot better ride for only a few more inches of draft . . .

              Yeah. With stitch and glue it's and easy thing to do. I wonder if it would tend to ride to weather on the lee side of the bottom. I know my double chine likes to have the bilge panel in the water to windward.

              Reed
            • prairiedog2332
              I would suggest a vee shaped bow gives a good ride and flatter bottom aft could stand up to more sail - unless one prefers sailing on ones ear . Also provides
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 23, 2010
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                I would suggest a vee shaped bow gives a good ride and flatter bottom
                aft could stand up to more sail - unless one prefers sailing "on ones
                ear". Also provides more useable space in the bottom. Caroline is the
                perfect compromise in a birdwatcher type I would tend to think.

                A " warped vee" like on Twister is another compromise.

                http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/twister/index.htm
                <http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/twister/index.htm>

                Vee bottomed sail boats generally require a ballasted keel to help them
                stay upright when the winds start to pipe up. However in a rowing hull
                they are beneficial as there is less wetted surface.

                But I could be wrong!

                Nels


                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@...> wrote:
                >
                > I've wondered why no one has yet don a v-bottom birdwatcher type; it
                seems you'd get a lot better ride for only a few more inches of draft .
                . .
                >
                > Gary
                >
                >
                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@" captreed@ wrote:
                > >
                > > << Do you think this has made the boat more rough water capable?
                > >
                > > Hi Gary,
                > >
                > > I haven't tested it out sufficiently yet. Except for the day I took
                the knockdown we haven't had enough wind recently.
                > >
                > > Part of the story is that Jim M. wanted me to build a Family Skiff
                with a birdwatcher cabin. After encountering the horrendous pounding I
                was beginning to think he was right, but I had been seduced by Rick
                Bedard's illustration of the benign way the boat laid down and it's
                instant knockdown recovery.
                > >
                > > I've had the boat outside the harbor a couple of times, but on
                pretty quiet days. I play to explore its capabilities on the real ocean
                over the next month.
                > >
                > > Reed
                > >
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • captreed@sbcglobal.net
                ... Hi Gary, You asked if my modifications made JB Jr. more seaworthy. I still don t know. I think it does OK on the open ocean. I ve had it out twice this
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 8, 2010
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                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Reed:
                  > Interesting modification, especially since it eliminated pounding. Hope to hear further reports as you sail it more. Do you think this has made the boat more rough water capable?

                  Hi Gary,

                  You asked if my modifications made JB Jr. more seaworthy. I still don't know. I think it does OK on the open ocean. I've had it out twice this week. I'm amazed by the motion. It's like Bolger's comment about Superbrick "It would get you there but would wear it's occupants out." or something like that. The boat hobby horses pretty fiercly.

                  I've had a friends Philsboat out on the open ocean and I don't remember it hobby horsing. It did pound though going into a chop.

                  How does Oracle perform? Jim Michalak wanted me to build a birdwatcher Family Skiff and I might have to do that.

                  Reed Smith
                • JMichalsbr@aol.com
                  Had JB Jr Surprise out yesterday in Buzzards Bay in 10-15mph and seas of 2ft. I d intended to sail about 15mi to Marion, spend the night, and come back the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 10, 2010
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                    Had JB Jr Surprise out yesterday in Buzzards Bay in 10-15mph and seas of 2ft. I'd intended to sail about 15mi to Marion, spend the night, and come back the next day. I reefed the shapie spritsl on the trailer, and put on the pointy nose-cone. We ran out of New Bedford doing 5kt in fairly smooth, protected water, and turned gradually up until we were close-reaching in the open bay. At that point I anchored to deal with a poorly-setting sail. (It wraps around the mast, and between that and the tension of the snotter pulling the sail out of shape, the thing would make a better grocery bag than an airfoil.) While anchored (50ft of scope), sheet off and sail flogging, the boat swung wildly. We were too far from land to be said to be in the lee of anything. After battling the sail for 20 minutes, getting its shape the best that could be expected, I decided to head back to New Bedford: I wasn't sure we could point well enough to make Marion, and even if we did make it, stronger winds were forecast for the next day. Coming back, we could not get through stays even in repeated attempts and having 350lb of crew and 4kt of boat speed going into the tacks. (This wasn't helped by the lee helm that my reefed sail created, but I've had trouble tacking in chop even without this problem.) So we jibed around repeatedly, until we were in enough shelter to have calm waters. (Our first jibe sent the windows under, but we've gotten over our original worries about capsize.) This was a good test in open water. I think I've reached my comfort limit in this boat.
                    Jeff Michals-Brown




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Rob Kellock
                    Hi Jeff, Sounds like you are going through the same learning curve that I went through with my Philsboat. I began by deliberately taking it out into open water
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 10, 2010
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                      Hi Jeff,

                      Sounds like you are going through the same learning curve that I went through with my Philsboat. I began by deliberately taking it out into open water and strong conditions. I'm finishing by looking at the weather forecast like a hawk before going out and never venturing into open water.

                      This is not to say that these are poor designs. Far from it. I've just returned from a four day / three night solo camping trip in New Zealand's Marlborough Sounds, sleeping, eating and ... (well, we won't mention that!) on my boat and had a wonderful time. What's more... I've been able to do it on a shoestring budget, which for me anyway, is very important.

                      But on reflection, I've begun to realise that for this kind of overnight boat camping, the sailing aspect is a waste of time. I probably sailed 30% of the time and motored 70% and realistically would have got to my night time sleepover points much more quickly if I had motored 100%.

                      So now, I'm considering abandoning the sail rig altogether on my next boat and perhaps building a Petesboat minus the rig, leeboard and rudder but with a Bolger Topaz style bow instead of the inverted V. Stick an 8HP outboard on the back and you've got a quickly built easily towed camping cruiser that could accomodate four people in "relative" comfort.

                      Cheers,

                      Rob.

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, JMichalsbr@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Had JB Jr Surprise out yesterday in Buzzards Bay in 10-15mph and seas of 2ft. I'd intended to sail about 15mi to Marion, spend the night, and come back the next day. I reefed the shapie spritsl on the trailer, and put on the pointy nose-cone. We ran out of New Bedford doing 5kt in fairly smooth, protected water, and turned gradually up until we were close-reaching in the open bay. At that point I anchored to deal with a poorly-setting sail. (It wraps around the mast, and between that and the tension of the snotter pulling the sail out of shape, the thing would make a better grocery bag than an airfoil.) While anchored (50ft of scope), sheet off and sail flogging, the boat swung wildly. We were too far from land to be said to be in the lee of anything. After battling the sail for 20 minutes, getting its shape the best that could be expected, I decided to head back to New Bedford: I wasn't sure we could point well enough to make Marion, and even if we did make it, stronger winds were forecast for the next day. Coming back, we could not get through stays even in repeated attempts and having 350lb of crew and 4kt of boat speed going into the tacks. (This wasn't helped by the lee helm that my reefed sail created, but I've had trouble tacking in chop even without this problem.) So we jibed around repeatedly, until we were in enough shelter to have calm waters. (Our first jibe sent the windows under, but we've gotten over our original worries about capsize.) This was a good test in open water. I think I've reached my comfort limit in this boat.
                      > Jeff Michals-Brown
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • gary
                      Reed: Like every boat I ve had, the conditions determine how Oaracle performs. Usually, she s pretty good on the wind, soaring over the waves and not pounding
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 11, 2010
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                        Reed:
                        Like every boat I've had, the conditions determine how Oaracle performs. Usually, she's pretty good on the wind, soaring over the waves and not pounding too much. But sometimes I hit just the right size and shape of wave . . . In 2008, Noel Davis and I nearly got our teeth jarred beating from Cape Romano to Indian key Pass (entrance to Everglades City). We'd slam through a set of three waves with the boat nearly stopping, then get the momentum up and hit another three waves. The next day we had higher winds and waves along the Everglades Coast but the shape and spacing were better and we literally soared over them and once hit 6 knots hard on the wind for a couple minutes straight -- an Oaracle record. Last March beating around Florida Bay was a pounding, wet affair. It seemed slow but the GPS showed good progress. But lots of slamming. Oaracle's liveliest motion comes when steep waves hit her on the quarter. That bounces her pretty good and sometimes makes her want to round up.

                        Were the conditions on the two times your were out similar? You may have been hitting the wave conditions toughest for the length of your boat.

                        Gary

                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Reed:
                        > > Interesting modification, especially since it eliminated pounding. Hope to hear further reports as you sail it more. Do you think this has made the boat more rough water capable?
                        >
                        > Hi Gary,
                        >
                        > You asked if my modifications made JB Jr. more seaworthy. I still don't know. I think it does OK on the open ocean. I've had it out twice this week. I'm amazed by the motion. It's like Bolger's comment about Superbrick "It would get you there but would wear it's occupants out." or something like that. The boat hobby horses pretty fiercly.
                        >
                        > I've had a friends Philsboat out on the open ocean and I don't remember it hobby horsing. It did pound though going into a chop.
                        >
                        > How does Oracle perform? Jim Michalak wanted me to build a birdwatcher Family Skiff and I might have to do that.
                        >
                        > Reed Smith
                        >
                      • captreed@sbcglobal.net
                        ... That could be it. I m looking forward to more outside sailing to see how it goes. I d hoped the bow on Oarcle smoothed the world out for you. I have a
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 11, 2010
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                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Were the conditions on the two times your were out similar? You may >have been hitting the wave conditions toughest for the length of your >boat.

                          That could be it. I'm looking forward to more outside sailing to see how it goes. I'd hoped the bow on Oarcle smoothed the world out for you.

                          I have a 27' 3 1/2 ton sloop that doesn't even rock in the conditions I was sailing in...maybe I'm just spoiled.

                          Reed
                        • gary
                          Oaracle s bow is very good in most conditions. She pounds less than my 30 footer, which is the same hull type. But in the right (or rather wrong!) conditions
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 12, 2010
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                            Oaracle's bow is very good in most conditions. She pounds less than my 30 footer, which is the same hull type. But in the right (or rather wrong!) conditions she will pound.

                            Gary

                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed@..." <captreed@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gary" <gbship@> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Were the conditions on the two times your were out similar? You may >have been hitting the wave conditions toughest for the length of your >boat.
                            >
                            > That could be it. I'm looking forward to more outside sailing to see how it goes. I'd hoped the bow on Oarcle smoothed the world out for you.
                            >
                            > I have a 27' 3 1/2 ton sloop that doesn't even rock in the conditions I was sailing in...maybe I'm just spoiled.
                            >
                            > Reed
                            >
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