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Re: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for Cheasapeake Bay cruising?

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  • bud e
    Great post.  Thanks for asking these questions Luke.  Anxious to see the answers.Bud ... From: luke_seubert Subject: [Michalak] Re:
    Message 1 of 29 , Jul 31, 2010
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      Great post.  Thanks for asking these questions Luke.  Anxious to see the answers.Bud

      --- On Fri, 7/30/10, luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...> wrote:

      From: luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...>
      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 10:37 PM

      Hi Miles,

      Many thanks for your detailed reply. Your real world experience resolves a lot of theoretical, abstract musings - mine included. It sounds like the Blobster is fairly seaworthy. In re-reading Michalak's hullform essay on his website, I see that the Blobster uses one of his best hull designs, but in a blunt bow variant.

      If you don't mind, could I ask a few additional questions about Blobster in this public forum? If you (or other group members) prefer taking this to private email, I have no problem with that. But I think this information could be helpful to others who are considering a Blobster build.  Anyway, here goes...

      1. The following photo shows your Blobster during its powered sea trials:
      http://tinyurl.com/22jrbdx

      In the photo, the bow sets well above the calm waters. You are seated to the rear of the boat, and the engine wake suggests a moderate amount of throttle. Is this the normal trim for the boat while under sail? Or is the bow elevated more than normal because you are sitting towards the back and the throttle is opened up?

      2. This photo is another shot, from a different angle, of powered sea trials:
      http://tinyurl.com/2fy9s8b

      Michalak's design does not have a full transom across the back. Instead, it is partially cut down to accommodate the rudder and outboard. As a result, the freeboard is rather thin on the left transom. Has this ever been a concern while under sail? Have you ever felt that water might wash over the transom in a following sea?

      3. This photo - the final one (thankfully) - is an early construction photo, showing the two sides of the boat, cut from plywood and butt-jointed together:
      http://tinyurl.com/26wbk3x

      In North America, plywood sheets measure out at 4 feet by 8 feet. As I understand it, in Australia you have metric plywood, that has measurements somewhat close to 4x8. It looks like the fore and aft side sections each require almost a full length of a plywood sheet. Is this correct? Was there much scrap left over from the end cuts?

      4. Finally, all boat designs require a series of compromises, the result of which is that no boat can be perfect. While the Blobster has a number of fine qualities, there must also be a few areas where it is lacking. Could you share your views on some of the Blobster's weaknesses?

      Many thanks Miles for sharing your Blobster expertise.

      Cheers,
      Luke



      ------------------------------------

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Miles B
      Hi Luke and friends, First, thanks for posting these questions about Blobster. I really am happy to answer as best and as frankly as I can about my experience
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 1, 2010
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        Hi Luke and friends,
        First, thanks for posting these questions about Blobster. I really am happy to answer as best and as frankly as I can about my experience in building and sailing Blobster. So, to answer your questions:

        1)Photo of Blobster motoring, bow is up - is this normal trim?
        No. As you suggest the bow is up because I'm pushing her to hull speed. And at this time I had no mast to raise, so she was a bit lightly loaded up front. There is a photo of her sailing in the Photos section here. That photo gives a much better idea of her trim.

        2)Have you ever felt that water might wash over the transom in a following sea?
        I did wonder about this when I was building the boat. You do have some flexibility in how high or low you set the motor board. In practice nothing has washed over the stern so far at all - the large stern seems to rise easily as waves roll under the boat. The biggest I have encountered so far is a short and steep 3 foot wind swell (see also point 4 below)

        3)Ply sheets 4 x 8 foot? Two per side? Was there much scrap left over from the end cuts?
        I was able to get imperial sized marine ply here in Australia and the sheets were 4 foot by 8 foot. Each of Blobster's sides are two sheets butt joined. There is nearly no scrap from the end cuts.

        4)Could you share your views on some of the Blobster's weaknesses?
        I'll answer this as honestly as I can. There is no skeg or keelson/keel as drawn. The bottom is made up of two layers of 3/4 inch ply about 36 inches wide at mid section. So the bottom is strong enough not to need a keelson. This makes beaching and trailering very easy. However it does mean that the only lateral planes in the water are the rudder and the leeboard. With a stiff breeze and a 3 foot following swell I found she did not track as well as Micro which has that long lead filled keel. I did have to work the tiller a bit to keep Blobster on course. I did not feel that she wanted to broach at any time - rather it was just a feeling of stalling a little as a wave picked up her stern and rolled under. A skeg might help with this but that would alter her balance. The plus side of this is that she turns through the wind with ease spinning on her leeboard even in the lightest of wind. I have not once stalled when tacking. By comparison Micro's long keel meant having to have more speed up to tack without getting caught in irons.
        Another possible weakness is that she is not designed to take a mizzen mast so she dances around when anchored and when sailing will not lie head to wind with the main sheet released. She tends to lie beam on. To put in a reef you need to either anchor or use the motor to hold her head to wind. The plus side of having just a main (lug) sail is the wonderful simplicity. I can single hand this boat with no worries at all. I did chat to Jim about this and it would not be at all hard to convert Blobster's rig to a lug main with mizzen (basically, a foot would be lopped off the leach of the lug sail and boom and a small mizzen set at the stern). My thoughts at the moment are that I could have two rigs: the single lug sail (as I now have) which I would use for day sailing on the lake and other sheltered waters; and a second main with a shortened boom and a mizzen mast and sail which I would use for extended cruising.

        Some would say the look of the bow is a weakness. Well, it is all in the eye of the beholder. I think she is a great looking boat!

        I have not experienced anything else about the boat so far that I would call a weakness. She sails well, handles the chop and rough I've been out in so far, is easy to launch and retrieve, has an amazing amount of space in the cockpit and cabin with plenty of sitting head room, heaps of storage space and is easy to rig and unrig. This is one really big difference compared to Micro - raising Blobster's mast is a cinch compared to Micro's.

        Cheers
        Miles.



        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "luke_seubert" <luke_seubert@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Miles,
        >
        > Many thanks for your detailed reply. Your real world experience resolves a lot of theoretical, abstract musings - mine included. It sounds like the Blobster is fairly seaworthy. In re-reading Michalak's hullform essay on his website, I see that the Blobster uses one of his best hull designs, but in a blunt bow variant.
        >
        > If you don't mind, could I ask a few additional questions about Blobster in this public forum? If you (or other group members) prefer taking this to private email, I have no problem with that. But I think this information could be helpful to others who are considering a Blobster build. Anyway, here goes...
        >
        > 1. The following photo shows your Blobster during its powered sea trials:
        > http://tinyurl.com/22jrbdx
        >
        > In the photo, the bow sets well above the calm waters. You are seated to the rear of the boat, and the engine wake suggests a moderate amount of throttle. Is this the normal trim for the boat while under sail? Or is the bow elevated more than normal because you are sitting towards the back and the throttle is opened up?
        >
        > 2. This photo is another shot, from a different angle, of powered sea trials:
        > http://tinyurl.com/2fy9s8b
        >
        > Michalak's design does not have a full transom across the back. Instead, it is partially cut down to accommodate the rudder and outboard. As a result, the freeboard is rather thin on the left transom. Has this ever been a concern while under sail? Have you ever felt that water might wash over the transom in a following sea?
        >
        > 3. This photo - the final one (thankfully) - is an early construction photo, showing the two sides of the boat, cut from plywood and butt-jointed together:
        > http://tinyurl.com/26wbk3x
        >
        > In North America, plywood sheets measure out at 4 feet by 8 feet. As I understand it, in Australia you have metric plywood, that has measurements somewhat close to 4x8. It looks like the fore and aft side sections each require almost a full length of a plywood sheet. Is this correct? Was there much scrap left over from the end cuts?
        >
        > 4. Finally, all boat designs require a series of compromises, the result of which is that no boat can be perfect. While the Blobster has a number of fine qualities, there must also be a few areas where it is lacking. Could you share your views on some of the Blobster's weaknesses?
        >
        > Many thanks Miles for sharing your Blobster expertise.
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Luke
        >
      • Hilbert
        Good day everybody. I,ve just ead the trhead from miles . and I wonder if your boat is dancing around your anker is,nt it posseble to put up a pole with a
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 3, 2010
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          Good day everybody. I,ve just ead the trhead from miles . and I wonder if your boat is dancing around your anker is,nt it posseble to put up a pole with a little sail to just keep her steady. instead of making a whole new rig? gretings Hilbert.Netherlands.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • prairiedog2332
          Hi Hilbert, I think using a temporary mizzen when at anchor is a great suggestion. Once the main is lowered and tied off to one side pop in the mizzen. It
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 3, 2010
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            Hi Hilbert,

            I think using a temporary mizzen when at anchor is a great suggestion. Once the main is lowered and tied off to one side pop in the mizzen. It might even use the boat hook or an oar for a mast and yard.

            Another option might be to move the main mast forward a ft. rather than chopping off the boom and sail leech a foot. Or maybe changing the parrel locations on boom and yard. If it doesn't work then you will know, without performing major surgery. You might want to do this anyway if adding a bow extension.

            Nels

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Hilbert" <h.gorte@...> wrote:
            >
            > Good day everybody. I,ve just ead the trhead from miles . and I wonder if your boat is dancing around your anker is,nt it posseble to put up a pole with a little sail to just keep her steady. instead of making a whole new rig? gretings Hilbert.Netherlands.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • luke_seubert
            Hi Miles, Many thanks for your detailed replies to my earlier post concerning the Blobster. I especially appreciated your comments about the mizzen mast, which
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 4, 2010
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              Hi Miles,

              Many thanks for your detailed replies to my earlier post concerning the Blobster. I especially appreciated your comments about the mizzen mast, which was a followup question I wanted to ask about. It is good to know that Jim Michalak foresaw the need for a yawl rig, and has already given some thought to it. Anyway, if I may, I would like to post a few additional queries about Blobster.

              Oh, and some of these questions, such as the one about large battery systems, can be answered at least in part by others in the group who do not have a Blobster. So if you have specific knowledge on some of the queries raised below, please feel free to contribute for the benefit of the group.

              I promise that these are the last of my questions. (Hurray!) And that in the future, should people inquire about the Blobster, the group can refer them back to this thread as one likely to answer many of their questions. They need only run a subject heading search on "Blobster" and "Chesapeake" using the Advanced Search tool.


              Cabin Queries:
              ========================================
              I am 6 feet, 4 inches tall - 193 cm. When I am seated, I need 37 inches, or 94 cm, of clearance for proper headroom. I am guessing that if I sat near the middle of the Blobster cabin, under the companionway hatch rails, that I would have enough headroom. But what if I sat along the side, near the window? What does the clearance measure at its lowest point?

              The Blobster plans call for a single, rectangular window on each side of the cabin, located between the gunwale strip and the larger rub rail. What if there were three windows, of roughly the same size as the current single window, spread equidistant from each other along the cabin wall - fore, middle, and aft? (Yes, I am a fan of Birdwatcher cabins and all the light and views they bring into a cabin.) Do you think this would compromise structural integrity too much?

              Hard top or soft top on the cabin slot? Traditional, wooden, cabin companionway covers; or tight fitting, waterproof, canvas covers with U-shaped inverted bows to shed the water? Which would you prefer when out sailing and camp cruising?

              Summers in the Chesapeake Bay area can get quite hot; and the high humidity and cool temperatures at nighttime can result in lots of condensation when sleeping inside the cabin. A helpful solution to these issues is to fit foam insulation panels to the walls and ceiling of the cabin, fronted by a thin wood covering, such as luan. Do you foresee any problems doing this with the interior of Blobster's cabin?


              Cockpit and Bow Wet Well Queries
              ========================================
              I carefully studied your construction photos, especially the footwell of the cockpit. Does the area at the bottom of the footwell open up underneath, or do the sides of the benches go all the way to the sole, sealing the bench interiors from water? Are the bench seats thus also positive flotation tanks?

              In this discussion group, there was once a thread (see link below) about extending the footwell of the cockpit, so that more people could sit comfortably with their feet down on the sole, instead of up on the cockpit deck. What do you believe are the pros and cons of such a modification?
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/message/8345

              Could the cockpit footwell be readily made self-draining? What do you see as the pros and cons of doing so, versus a bilge pump?

              Finally, a question about the bow wet well. Imagine if the plywood sheet of the cabin roof were extended into the bow well. (This would not include the companionway hatch rails.) The roof would provide partial cover over the sides of the bow well, running from the edge of the forward cabin hatch, to the edge of the bow well opening. Thus, the shape of these additional roof covers would be a right triangle, with a curved hypotenuse matching the curve of the hull side. Do you see any impediments to this modification?


              More Substantial Revisions
              ========================================
              I especially like Michalak's choice to use water ballast in Blobster, as it makes the boat much lighter and easier to trailer with a small vehicle. Blobster is an unusually large amount of boat and capability for such a light trailer weight. But if trailer weight and increased launching draft were not a concern, what do you think of other ballast options? For example, instead of water ballast tanks, there could be lead bricks or steel plates in the bilges, opening up yet more storage space. Another ballasting option would be to attach steel hull plates to the flat bottom of Blobster, much as PCB&F now offer as a ballast option on AS-29. How do you think these options would work on Blobster?

              You mentioned that Blobster can wallow a bit in following seas, requiring especial attention to the tiller. Do you think that a pair of small, twin skegs would help alleviate this problem? By this, I mean skegs that are no deeper than the deepest draft of the hull in the belly of the boat, so that Blobster maintains its shoal draft. One assumes that the rudder would need to be enlarged and that the Blobster would not tack quite so easily. Do you think such compromises would be worth the handling improvement in following seas?


              I Sing The Body Electric
              ========================================
              The cabin roof seems a good spot to put a pair of large solar panels. Do you foresee any problem with doing so?

              More importantly, is there enough space in the cabin or under the cockpit seats to locate a large battery or batteries? Imagine switching from a gasoline outboard engine, to an electric trolling motor. Even with large solar panels, one would still need a fair amount of battery capacity to provide a decent amount of range when running on electric motor. (Yes - I know - very expensive.) Is there enough room inside Blobster to do this? What if the space used by the water ballast tanks was converted to battery packs?


              Many thanks for your insights about Blobster,
              Luke
            • prairiedog2332
              Hi Luke, Great thread and don t hesitate to share your musings! They are of benefit for everyone considering a Michalak or Bolger design. Some of my own
              Message 6 of 29 , Aug 4, 2010
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                Hi Luke,

                Great thread and don't hesitate to share your musings! They are of
                benefit for everyone considering a Michalak or Bolger design.

                Some of my own thoughts.

                The hatched deck as drawn for Blobster has several advantages, foremost
                is that it adds to the self-righting ability and secondly is that it
                drains and stays dry even when the boat is stored without a cover
                outdoors. Very important to have scuppers that drain overboard on the
                foreward corners of the deck in my opinion. Not sure if Blobster has
                those?

                Adding sloped backrests to the cockpit sides is a useful addition for
                sitting/sprawling with ones legs outstretched on the flat deck. A boat
                cushion or even one of those folding camp seat cushions even add to the
                comfort. The space behind the backrests add additional flotation and
                give the cockpit a clean finished appearance. No inwhales against ones
                back.

                In fine weather the open hatch can be used as a footwell with ready
                access below decks. Converting to a self-draining cockpit wastes a lot
                of that storage below decks.

                If going with a self-draining cockpit you have to install really good
                drains into the stern well. I reccomend using Poly drain pipe well
                sealed so no rot pockets are created. On some designs, they have to pass
                below or through the stern flotation tank I would assume.

                I see no problem adding steel plates or batteries or water jugs as
                ballast. In fact I see it as an advantage to water ballast tanks as it
                is can be adjusted or even removed when using the boat as a motor boat
                only. Steel plated bottom seems far too much work in my opinion.

                Solar panels are alright but a motor with an alternator works a lot
                better in recharging batteries.

                I totally agree with adding foam insulation to extend the season and
                lessen condensation as well as adding flotation . Adding more windows
                might take away from that though, unless they are double paned - which
                would make them very strong. I think the slot top lets in enough light
                most of the time and if closed off, the encloser could have a
                transparent panel.

                Some of this could be done after a season of sailing and finding for
                yourself if the extra work is worth it. One can add a good quality foam
                and not cover it for example. Cushions the head when you sit up
                suddenly, and if white in color adds more light:-)

                Some builders add a hard enclosure for traveling or going off-shore and
                a bowed soft top for inland camp cruising. If the hard encloser hinges
                off to the side you can carry both. The slot top has many options while
                adding to the knockdown capability and to me is one of the greatest
                inventions in a small cruiser.

                Skegs might be subjected to damage when launching or loading onto the
                trailer, But I have been thinking of twin rudders on one of Jim's
                designs to have the motor located on the centerline, and allow a larger
                motor. One with an alternator.

                Am considering once again - a JB3 as a motorsailor, with an 8 hp
                outboard, after reading about the fellow going all over the place in his
                flat-bottomed AF4 Breve:-)

                http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm

                Nels

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "luke_seubert" <luke_seubert@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi Miles,
                >
                > Many thanks for your detailed replies to my earlier post concerning
                the Blobster. I especially appreciated your comments about the mizzen
                mast, which was a followup question I wanted to ask about. It is good to
                know that Jim Michalak foresaw the need for a yawl rig, and has already
                given some thought to it. Anyway, if I may, I would like to post a few
                additional queries about Blobster.
                >
                > Oh, and some of these questions, such as the one about large battery
                systems, can be answered at least in part by others in the group who do
                not have a Blobster. So if you have specific knowledge on some of the
                queries raised below, please feel free to contribute for the benefit of
                the group.
                >
                > I promise that these are the last of my questions. (Hurray!) And that
                in the future, should people inquire about the Blobster, the group can
                refer them back to this thread as one likely to answer many of their
                questions. They need only run a subject heading search on "Blobster" and
                "Chesapeake" using the Advanced Search tool.
                >
                >
                > Cabin Queries:
                > ========================================
                > I am 6 feet, 4 inches tall - 193 cm. When I am seated, I need 37
                inches, or 94 cm, of clearance for proper headroom. I am guessing that
                if I sat near the middle of the Blobster cabin, under the companionway
                hatch rails, that I would have enough headroom. But what if I sat along
                the side, near the window? What does the clearance measure at its lowest
                point?
                >
                > The Blobster plans call for a single, rectangular window on each side
                of the cabin, located between the gunwale strip and the larger rub rail.
                What if there were three windows, of roughly the same size as the
                current single window, spread equidistant from each other along the
                cabin wall - fore, middle, and aft? (Yes, I am a fan of Birdwatcher
                cabins and all the light and views they bring into a cabin.) Do you
                think this would compromise structural integrity too much?
                >
                > Hard top or soft top on the cabin slot? Traditional, wooden, cabin
                companionway covers; or tight fitting, waterproof, canvas covers with
                U-shaped inverted bows to shed the water? Which would you prefer when
                out sailing and camp cruising?
                >
                > Summers in the Chesapeake Bay area can get quite hot; and the high
                humidity and cool temperatures at nighttime can result in lots of
                condensation when sleeping inside the cabin. A helpful solution to these
                issues is to fit foam insulation panels to the walls and ceiling of the
                cabin, fronted by a thin wood covering, such as luan. Do you foresee any
                problems doing this with the interior of Blobster's cabin?
                >
                >
                > Cockpit and Bow Wet Well Queries
                > ========================================
                > I carefully studied your construction photos, especially the footwell
                of the cockpit. Does the area at the bottom of the footwell open up
                underneath, or do the sides of the benches go all the way to the sole,
                sealing the bench interiors from water? Are the bench seats thus also
                positive flotation tanks?
                >
                > In this discussion group, there was once a thread (see link below)
                about extending the footwell of the cockpit, so that more people could
                sit comfortably with their feet down on the sole, instead of up on the
                cockpit deck. What do you believe are the pros and cons of such a
                modification?
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/message/8345
                >
                > Could the cockpit footwell be readily made self-draining? What do you
                see as the pros and cons of doing so, versus a bilge pump?
                >
                > Finally, a question about the bow wet well. Imagine if the plywood
                sheet of the cabin roof were extended into the bow well. (This would not
                include the companionway hatch rails.) The roof would provide partial
                cover over the sides of the bow well, running from the edge of the
                forward cabin hatch, to the edge of the bow well opening. Thus, the
                shape of these additional roof covers would be a right triangle, with a
                curved hypotenuse matching the curve of the hull side. Do you see any
                impediments to this modification?
                >
                >
                > More Substantial Revisions
                > ========================================
                > I especially like Michalak's choice to use water ballast in Blobster,
                as it makes the boat much lighter and easier to trailer with a small
                vehicle. Blobster is an unusually large amount of boat and capability
                for such a light trailer weight. But if trailer weight and increased
                launching draft were not a concern, what do you think of other ballast
                options? For example, instead of water ballast tanks, there could be
                lead bricks or steel plates in the bilges, opening up yet more storage
                space. Another ballasting option would be to attach steel hull plates to
                the flat bottom of Blobster, much as PCB&F now offer as a ballast option
                on AS-29. How do you think these options would work on Blobster?
                >
                > You mentioned that Blobster can wallow a bit in following seas,
                requiring especial attention to the tiller. Do you think that a pair of
                small, twin skegs would help alleviate this problem? By this, I mean
                skegs that are no deeper than the deepest draft of the hull in the belly
                of the boat, so that Blobster maintains its shoal draft. One assumes
                that the rudder would need to be enlarged and that the Blobster would
                not tack quite so easily. Do you think such compromises would be worth
                the handling improvement in following seas?
                >
                >
                > I Sing The Body Electric
                > ========================================
                > The cabin roof seems a good spot to put a pair of large solar panels.
                Do you foresee any problem with doing so?
                >
                > More importantly, is there enough space in the cabin or under the
                cockpit seats to locate a large battery or batteries? Imagine switching
                from a gasoline outboard engine, to an electric trolling motor. Even
                with large solar panels, one would still need a fair amount of battery
                capacity to provide a decent amount of range when running on electric
                motor. (Yes - I know - very expensive.) Is there enough room inside
                Blobster to do this? What if the space used by the water ballast tanks
                was converted to battery packs?
                >
                >
                > Many thanks for your insights about Blobster,
                > Luke
                >
              • luke_seubert
                ... It seems so. Take a look at the photos that Miles Bore has posted in the Photo section of the group. His Blobster has small drain holes in the bow wet well
                Message 7 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  >prairiedog2332 wrote:
                  >
                  > The hatched deck as drawn for Blobster has several advantages, foremost
                  > is that it adds to the self-righting ability and secondly is that it
                  > drains and stays dry even when the boat is stored without a cover
                  > outdoors. Very important to have scuppers that drain overboard on the
                  > foreward corners of the deck in my opinion. Not sure if Blobster has
                  > those?
                  >
                  It seems so. Take a look at the photos that Miles Bore has posted in the Photo section of the group. His Blobster has small drain holes in the bow wet well and the corners of the cockpit deck. My inclination would be to put small scuppers in those locations, but I would probably check myself and wait until some real world testing had been completed to verify if scuppers are necessary or not.


                  > Adding sloped backrests to the cockpit sides is a useful addition for
                  > sitting/sprawling with ones legs outstretched on the flat deck. A boat
                  > cushion or even one of those folding camp seat cushions even add to the
                  > comfort. The space behind the backrests add additional flotation and
                  > give the cockpit a clean finished appearance. No inwhales against ones
                  > back.
                  >
                  I'm rather fond of these seat backs found on the Michalak designed, Garth Battista built Cormorant:
                  http://www.jimsboats.com/garthb.jpg

                  Such wooden slat seatbacks are quite comfortable. For something like Blobster though, I think folding, slatted seatbacks - painted white - combined with large, rectangular, seat cushions tied off in place, would be a good option.


                  > In fine weather the open hatch can be used as a footwell with ready
                  > access below decks. Converting to a self-draining cockpit wastes a lot
                  > of that storage below decks.
                  >
                  I'm not sure I understand this point you make, but then, I do not yet understand the understructure of that footwell. It seems that below the sides of the benches, the footwell opens up across the entire bottom - in between the bulkheads that is. I am not sure about this though, which is why I asked Miles to describe that area, and as his time allows, post some additional photographs.

                  My inclination would be to run the sides of those benches all the way to the sole, sealing off the bench interior volume for positive buoyancy and storage. The forward part of the bench storage area could be accessed from inside the cabin, while the aft storage area could be accessed through hatches cut into the sides of the footwell.

                  Of course, that takes away any potential self-draining capability for the footwell. Installing a bilge pump, backed up by a bucket and sponge, should resolve that issue. This assumes the cockpit footwell hatch isn't in place, for whatever reason.


                  > I see no problem adding steel plates or batteries or water jugs as
                  > ballast. In fact I see it as an advantage to water ballast tanks as it
                  > is can be adjusted or even removed when using the boat as a motor boat
                  > only. Steel plated bottom seems far too much work in my opinion.
                  >
                  Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)

                  Yeah, steel plated bottoms are a lot of trouble. But if you want metal way down low, and with a flat bottom sans keel, it is a great solution.

                  The other possibility is sheathing the hull below the waterline in copper. Any thoughts on this idea?


                  > I totally agree with adding foam insulation to extend the season and
                  > lessen condensation as well as adding flotation . Adding more windows
                  > might take away from that though, unless they are double paned - which
                  > would make them very strong. I think the slot top lets in enough light
                  > most of the time and if closed off, the encloser could have a
                  > transparent panel.
                  >
                  I like the idea of double-paned windows, but how does one ensure that they don't fog up? Won't the window frames will eventually let in some moisture, even well sealed ones?


                  > Some builders add a hard enclosure for traveling or going off-shore and
                  > a bowed soft top for inland camp cruising. If the hard encloser hinges
                  > off to the side you can carry both. The slot top has many options while
                  > adding to the knockdown capability and to me is one of the greatest
                  > inventions in a small cruiser.
                  >
                  In addition to its versatility and knockdown capability, the slot top/Birdwatcher cabin is wonderful for people such as myself, who are far taller than average. Most boats are designed for small to average people. I don't like those boats.


                  Cheers,
                  Luke
                • TheM
                  ... I wanted to comment on the cost of the steel plate bottoms for sharpies. I have not built a sharpie, much less one with a steel plate bottom as ballast. I
                  Message 8 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "luke_seubert" <luke_seubert@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >prairiedog2332 wrote:
                    > >

                    >
                    > > I see no problem adding steel plates or batteries or water jugs as
                    > > ballast. In fact I see it as an advantage to water ballast tanks as it
                    > > is can be adjusted or even removed when using the boat as a motor boat
                    > > only. Steel plated bottom seems far too much work in my opinion.
                    > >
                    > Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)
                    >
                    > Yeah, steel plated bottoms are a lot of trouble. But if you want metal way down low, and with a flat bottom sans keel, it is a great solution.

                    I wanted to comment on the cost of the steel plate bottoms for sharpies.

                    I have not built a sharpie, much less one with a steel plate bottom as ballast. I do however think it is a great idea on so many fronts. A year or more ago, I purchased plans for the Bolger AS29, and 39. I also received with the AS29 plans some Bolger "updates" including some very interesting info on insulating, and steel plate ballast.

                    While "researching" costs for the boat project, I asked my local metal work guy (owns a metalworking business) about the cost of using steel plate as ballast. In a nutshell, I thought it was cheap, actually cheaper than I had imagined. The steel plate is very cheap, you basically pay a commodity price for it. The shipping of the plate is what will cost you, often more than the product itself. My friend said if I could wait until he batched an order (bi-monthly), the shipping cost would be less.

                    The cost of cutting the plate, grinding the edges, and drilling the holes is done by the hour, but would not take long. Bending would take just minutes on the press.

                    I did not get an estimate on galvanizing. On a trailer boat it would not be needed. I can't imagine ballast on a Michalak boat being more than a few hundred US. Now if you can do something for free, any price is expensive, but I really felt the steel plate was cheap. Now compare that to lead. Yeah sure it "may" be free, if you chase it down, but your going to have to buy stuff and really mess with it to get it to do what you want (IE, melting, casting, etc). There is a cost of time, and money there too.

                    Again, no argument, just pointing out that steel plate is (from a mechanical perspective) fairly cheap and easy.

                    Have a wonderful weekend everyone!


                    Chris
                  • Andres Espino
                    LMAO... ROFL as well at  the comment... Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-) I do agree
                    Message 9 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      LMAO... ROFL as well at  the comment...

                      "Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)"

                      I do agree except as supplemental power in emergency or in crowded harbor traffic.

                      There appears to be a NEW TREND of buying up old sailboats and removing all rigging and making budget diesel trawlers out of them.  There have been one or two articles in Duckworks Magazine about folks doing that.  To me what a shame to take a Pearson Ariel or Alberg 30 and reduce it to a trawler.

                      This is the latest article about the trend of this quasi-Heresy..
                      http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/howto/terminal/index.htm
                      and there is an article about making a power Pelican sans sails too... ***sigh***

                      I am an old fogey who learned on 19ft grand banks dory off the NH coast as a boy.  I still favor the KISS principle and making sailing easy and fun.

                      EVIL!  Yes indeed thoroughly Evil at that    LOL

                      Andrew



                      --- On Thu, 8/5/10, luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...> wrote:

                      From: luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...>
                      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 5:05 PM







                       













                      >prairiedog2332 wrote:

                      >

                      > The hatched deck as drawn for Blobster has several advantages, foremost

                      > is that it adds to the self-righting ability and secondly is that it

                      > drains and stays dry even when the boat is stored without a cover

                      > outdoors. Very important to have scuppers that drain overboard on the

                      > foreward corners of the deck in my opinion. Not sure if Blobster has

                      > those?

                      >

                      It seems so. Take a look at the photos that Miles Bore has posted in the Photo section of the group. His Blobster has small drain holes in the bow wet well and the corners of the cockpit deck. My inclination would be to put small scuppers in those locations, but I would probably check myself and wait until some real world testing had been completed to verify if scuppers are necessary or not.



                      > Adding sloped backrests to the cockpit sides is a useful addition for

                      > sitting/sprawling with ones legs outstretched on the flat deck. A boat

                      > cushion or even one of those folding camp seat cushions even add to the

                      > comfort. The space behind the backrests add additional flotation and

                      > give the cockpit a clean finished appearance. No inwhales against ones

                      > back.

                      >

                      I'm rather fond of these seat backs found on the Michalak designed, Garth Battista built Cormorant:

                      http://www.jimsboats.com/garthb.jpg



                      Such wooden slat seatbacks are quite comfortable. For something like Blobster though, I think folding, slatted seatbacks - painted white - combined with large, rectangular, seat cushions tied off in place, would be a good option.



                      > In fine weather the open hatch can be used as a footwell with ready

                      > access below decks. Converting to a self-draining cockpit wastes a lot

                      > of that storage below decks.

                      >

                      I'm not sure I understand this point you make, but then, I do not yet understand the understructure of that footwell. It seems that below the sides of the benches, the footwell opens up across the entire bottom - in between the bulkheads that is. I am not sure about this though, which is why I asked Miles to describe that area, and as his time allows, post some additional photographs.



                      My inclination would be to run the sides of those benches all the way to the sole, sealing off the bench interior volume for positive buoyancy and storage. The forward part of the bench storage area could be accessed from inside the cabin, while the aft storage area could be accessed through hatches cut into the sides of the footwell.



                      Of course, that takes away any potential self-draining capability for the footwell. Installing a bilge pump, backed up by a bucket and sponge, should resolve that issue. This assumes the cockpit footwell hatch isn't in place, for whatever reason.



                      > I see no problem adding steel plates or batteries or water jugs as

                      > ballast. In fact I see it as an advantage to water ballast tanks as it

                      > is can be adjusted or even removed when using the boat as a motor boat

                      > only. Steel plated bottom seems far too much work in my opinion.

                      >

                      Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)



                      Yeah, steel plated bottoms are a lot of trouble. But if you want metal way down low, and with a flat bottom sans keel, it is a great solution.



                      The other possibility is sheathing the hull below the waterline in copper. Any thoughts on this idea?



                      > I totally agree with adding foam insulation to extend the season and

                      > lessen condensation as well as adding flotation . Adding more windows

                      > might take away from that though, unless they are double paned - which

                      > would make them very strong. I think the slot top lets in enough light

                      > most of the time and if closed off, the encloser could have a

                      > transparent panel.

                      >

                      I like the idea of double-paned windows, but how does one ensure that they don't fog up? Won't the window frames will eventually let in some moisture, even well sealed ones?



                      > Some builders add a hard enclosure for traveling or going off-shore and

                      > a bowed soft top for inland camp cruising. If the hard encloser hinges

                      > off to the side you can carry both. The slot top has many options while

                      > adding to the knockdown capability and to me is one of the greatest

                      > inventions in a small cruiser.

                      >

                      In addition to its versatility and knockdown capability, the slot top/Birdwatcher cabin is wonderful for people such as myself, who are far taller than average. Most boats are designed for small to average people. I don't like those boats.



                      Cheers,

                      Luke

























                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Andres Espino
                      I also discovered while running into the trawler article an article about sailing the Blobster at Duckworks Magazine.  
                      Message 10 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I also discovered while running into the trawler article an article about sailing the Blobster at Duckworks Magazine.   http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/projects/blobster/index.htm

                        Sailing
                        the Michalak Blobster (A World First!)

                        Two years ago Miles started building the Jim Michalak design
                        he called ‘Blobster’. He named
                        her 'Bob' - "(why not? That’s what you want a boat
                        to do at the very least)".

                        Andrew




                        --- On Thu, 8/5/10, TheM <ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@...> wrote:

                        From: TheM <ccurtis-keyword-crusing.65bae6@...>
                        Subject: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
                        To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 6:06 PM







                         













                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "luke_seubert" <luke_seubert@...> wrote:

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > >prairiedog2332 wrote:

                        > >



                        >

                        > > I see no problem adding steel plates or batteries or water jugs as

                        > > ballast. In fact I see it as an advantage to water ballast tanks as it

                        > > is can be adjusted or even removed when using the boat as a motor boat

                        > > only. Steel plated bottom seems far too much work in my opinion.

                        > >

                        > Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)

                        >

                        > Yeah, steel plated bottoms are a lot of trouble. But if you want metal way down low, and with a flat bottom sans keel, it is a great solution.



                        I wanted to comment on the cost of the steel plate bottoms for sharpies.



                        I have not built a sharpie, much less one with a steel plate bottom as ballast. I do however think it is a great idea on so many fronts. A year or more ago, I purchased plans for the Bolger AS29, and 39. I also received with the AS29 plans some Bolger "updates" including some very interesting info on insulating, and steel plate ballast.



                        While "researching" costs for the boat project, I asked my local metal work guy (owns a metalworking business) about the cost of using steel plate as ballast. In a nutshell, I thought it was cheap, actually cheaper than I had imagined. The steel plate is very cheap, you basically pay a commodity price for it. The shipping of the plate is what will cost you, often more than the product itself. My friend said if I could wait until he batched an order (bi-monthly), the shipping cost would be less.



                        The cost of cutting the plate, grinding the edges, and drilling the holes is done by the hour, but would not take long. Bending would take just minutes on the press.



                        I did not get an estimate on galvanizing. On a trailer boat it would not be needed. I can't imagine ballast on a Michalak boat being more than a few hundred US. Now if you can do something for free, any price is expensive, but I really felt the steel plate was cheap. Now compare that to lead. Yeah sure it "may" be free, if you chase it down, but your going to have to buy stuff and really mess with it to get it to do what you want (IE, melting, casting, etc). There is a cost of time, and money there too.



                        Again, no argument, just pointing out that steel plate is (from a mechanical perspective) fairly cheap and easy.



                        Have a wonderful weekend everyone!



                        Chris

























                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • prairiedog2332
                        I will try to clarify things a bit from my perspective. I think the cockpit/aft deck on the Blobster is the same as on Viola 22 for which Jim says: Aft of the
                        Message 11 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I will try to clarify things a bit from my perspective.

                          I think the cockpit/aft deck on the Blobster is the same as on Viola 22
                          for which Jim says:

                          "Aft of the cabin is a large flat cockpit with great storage
                          underneath which is accessible from both the cockpit and
                          from the cabin. One trip on a Micro will show you what
                          a wonderful setup this is. Best of all, this type of deck
                          is very quick and easy to build."

                          http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm

                          You might also notice the scuppers in the sides immediately aft the main
                          bulkhead. I would not make them too small as they can get plugged with
                          leaves etc., if the boat is stored outside and it storms, allowing
                          rainwater to lie on the deck. and could lead to the paint lifting or
                          bubbling.

                          No need ever for a bilge pump with that setup. A sponge at most!

                          A fellow from OZ has built two Micros, one with the builder requiring a
                          self-draining cockpit which he did but only because he was ordered to. I
                          guess it depends on personal preference. If I was going to have one I
                          would want a cover over it if stored outside and give up the extra
                          storage space below - which is amazing in a Micro - as you can crawl
                          right inside from the cabin. With a self-draining cockpit you only have
                          two narrow storage accesses on each side and a bit under the well. One
                          Micro owner installed two deadlights in the sides of the hold and his
                          kids slept there and used it as a playpen:-)

                          Folding, slatted back rests would be great but offer no additional
                          flotation or storage behind like a solid sloped backrest up to the
                          rails. Also another potential item to snag the mainsheet or dock lines.

                          Inner window panels could be removable if they seep. Actually I like the
                          wiley port design that can be opened of closed right off with some foam
                          bits. Will try to upload a file on it.

                          Not sure what you refer to as benches? None are apparent from what I
                          have seen on Blobster, but maybe Miles could clarify.

                          Motor? Well, I live on a river, with the lake about 18 km upstream. My
                          options are to use a motor on the boat or trailer it to the lake. I
                          also consider one a safety measure if a thunderstorm looms and the wind
                          dies. I fully intend to try a yuloh though to avoid using the engine as
                          much as I can.

                          I looked hard and long into electric as well. Gets very complicated and
                          expensive if done to have reliable recharging capability. Even have a
                          small genset I could use, but you have to carry gas for it anyway. To
                          get shore power for recharging, means staying at marinas instead of
                          stopping anywhere you prefer. I have a professional background in both
                          wind and solar power and neither option works that well in a sheltered
                          anchorage. Solar panels are much overrated as to their actual
                          performance. Even the best deep-cycle batteries can not be discharged
                          more than 50 percent or so without risking damage. A 5 liter gas tank
                          will out-last 100 lb of batteries in my view and are a lot easier to
                          replenish.

                          If I sound biased it is because I have a lot of faith in what Jim does,
                          along with his long relationship with Bolger. What they design works.

                          Nels




                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "luke_seubert" <luke_seubert@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > >prairiedog2332 wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The hatched deck as drawn for Blobster has several advantages,
                          foremost
                          > > is that it adds to the self-righting ability and secondly is that
                          it
                          > > drains and stays dry even when the boat is stored without a cover
                          > > outdoors. Very important to have scuppers that drain overboard on
                          the
                          > > foreward corners of the deck in my opinion. Not sure if Blobster has
                          > > those?
                          > >
                          > It seems so. Take a look at the photos that Miles Bore has posted in
                          the Photo section of the group. His Blobster has small drain holes in
                          the bow wet well and the corners of the cockpit deck. My inclination
                          would be to put small scuppers in those locations, but I would probably
                          check myself and wait until some real world testing had been completed
                          to verify if scuppers are necessary or not.
                          >
                          >
                          > > Adding sloped backrests to the cockpit sides is a useful addition
                          for
                          > > sitting/sprawling with ones legs outstretched on the flat deck. A
                          boat
                          > > cushion or even one of those folding camp seat cushions even add to
                          the
                          > > comfort. The space behind the backrests add additional flotation and
                          > > give the cockpit a clean finished appearance. No inwhales against
                          ones
                          > > back.
                          > >
                          > I'm rather fond of these seat backs found on the Michalak designed,
                          Garth Battista built Cormorant:
                          > http://www.jimsboats.com/garthb.jpg
                          >
                          > Such wooden slat seatbacks are quite comfortable. For something like
                          Blobster though, I think folding, slatted seatbacks - painted white -
                          combined with large, rectangular, seat cushions tied off in place, would
                          be a good option.
                          >
                          >
                          > > In fine weather the open hatch can be used as a footwell with ready
                          > > access below decks. Converting to a self-draining cockpit wastes a
                          lot
                          > > of that storage below decks.
                          > >
                          > I'm not sure I understand this point you make, but then, I do not yet
                          understand the understructure of that footwell. It seems that below the
                          sides of the benches, the footwell opens up across the entire bottom -
                          in between the bulkheads that is. I am not sure about this though, which
                          is why I asked Miles to describe that area, and as his time allows, post
                          some additional photographs.
                          >
                          > My inclination would be to run the sides of those benches all the way
                          to the sole, sealing off the bench interior volume for positive buoyancy
                          and storage. The forward part of the bench storage area could be
                          accessed from inside the cabin, while the aft storage area could be
                          accessed through hatches cut into the sides of the footwell.
                          >
                          > Of course, that takes away any potential self-draining capability for
                          the footwell. Installing a bilge pump, backed up by a bucket and sponge,
                          should resolve that issue. This assumes the cockpit footwell hatch isn't
                          in place, for whatever reason.
                          >
                          >
                          > > I see no problem adding steel plates or batteries or water jugs as
                          > > ballast. In fact I see it as an advantage to water ballast tanks as
                          it
                          > > is can be adjusted or even removed when using the boat as a motor
                          boat
                          > > only. Steel plated bottom seems far too much work in my opinion.
                          > >
                          > Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please
                          gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)
                          >
                          > Yeah, steel plated bottoms are a lot of trouble. But if you want metal
                          way down low, and with a flat bottom sans keel, it is a great solution.
                          >
                          > The other possibility is sheathing the hull below the waterline in
                          copper. Any thoughts on this idea?
                          >
                          >
                          > > I totally agree with adding foam insulation to extend the season and
                          > > lessen condensation as well as adding flotation . Adding more
                          windows
                          > > might take away from that though, unless they are double paned -
                          which
                          > > would make them very strong. I think the slot top lets in enough
                          light
                          > > most of the time and if closed off, the encloser could have a
                          > > transparent panel.
                          > >
                          > I like the idea of double-paned windows, but how does one ensure that
                          they don't fog up? Won't the window frames will eventually let in some
                          moisture, even well sealed ones?
                          >
                          >
                          > > Some builders add a hard enclosure for traveling or going off-shore
                          and
                          > > a bowed soft top for inland camp cruising. If the hard encloser
                          hinges
                          > > off to the side you can carry both. The slot top has many options
                          while
                          > > adding to the knockdown capability and to me is one of the greatest
                          > > inventions in a small cruiser.
                          > >
                          > In addition to its versatility and knockdown capability, the slot
                          top/Birdwatcher cabin is wonderful for people such as myself, who are
                          far taller than average. Most boats are designed for small to average
                          people. I don't like those boats.
                          >
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Luke
                          >
                        • prairiedog2332
                          Reminds me of when I got banned from a group when I mentioned the OB word:-) My first (and last) post was asking Don what size engine he recommended for
                          Message 12 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Reminds me of when I got banned from a group when I mentioned the "OB"
                            word:-)

                            My first (and last) post was asking Don what size engine he recommended
                            for Paradox.

                            Had no idea that was not a good thing to ask him.

                            Nels


                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino
                            <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > LMAO... ROFL as well at the comment...
                            >
                            > "Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please
                            gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)"
                            >
                            > I do agree except as supplemental power in emergency or in crowded
                            harbor traffic.
                            >
                            > There appears to be a NEW TREND of buying up old sailboats and
                            removing all rigging and making budget diesel trawlers out of them.Â
                            There have been one or two articles in Duckworks Magazine about folks
                            doing that. To me what a shame to take a Pearson Ariel or Alberg 30
                            and reduce it to a trawler.
                            >
                            > This is the latest article about the trend of this quasi-Heresy..
                            > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/howto/terminal/index.htm
                            > and there is an article about making a power Pelican sans sails too...
                            ***sigh***
                            >
                            > I am an old fogey who learned on 19ft grand banks dory off the NH
                            coast as a boy. I still favor the KISS principle and making sailing
                            easy and fun.
                            >
                            > EVIL! Yes indeed thoroughly Evil at that  LOL
                            >
                            > Andrew
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 8/5/10, luke_seubert luke_seubert@... wrote:
                            >
                            > From: luke_seubert luke_seubert@...
                            > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for
                            Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
                            > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 5:05 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Â
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >prairiedog2332 wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > The hatched deck as drawn for Blobster has several advantages,
                            foremost
                            >
                            > > is that it adds to the self-righting ability and secondly is that
                            it
                            >
                            > > drains and stays dry even when the boat is stored without a cover
                            >
                            > > outdoors. Very important to have scuppers that drain overboard on
                            the
                            >
                            > > foreward corners of the deck in my opinion. Not sure if Blobster has
                            >
                            > > those?
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > It seems so. Take a look at the photos that Miles Bore has posted in
                            the Photo section of the group. His Blobster has small drain holes in
                            the bow wet well and the corners of the cockpit deck. My inclination
                            would be to put small scuppers in those locations, but I would probably
                            check myself and wait until some real world testing had been completed
                            to verify if scuppers are necessary or not.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > Adding sloped backrests to the cockpit sides is a useful addition
                            for
                            >
                            > > sitting/sprawling with ones legs outstretched on the flat deck. A
                            boat
                            >
                            > > cushion or even one of those folding camp seat cushions even add to
                            the
                            >
                            > > comfort. The space behind the backrests add additional flotation and
                            >
                            > > give the cockpit a clean finished appearance. No inwhales against
                            ones
                            >
                            > > back.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > I'm rather fond of these seat backs found on the Michalak designed,
                            Garth Battista built Cormorant:
                            >
                            > http://www.jimsboats.com/garthb.jpg
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Such wooden slat seatbacks are quite comfortable. For something like
                            Blobster though, I think folding, slatted seatbacks - painted white -
                            combined with large, rectangular, seat cushions tied off in place, would
                            be a good option.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > In fine weather the open hatch can be used as a footwell with ready
                            >
                            > > access below decks. Converting to a self-draining cockpit wastes a
                            lot
                            >
                            > > of that storage below decks.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > I'm not sure I understand this point you make, but then, I do not yet
                            understand the understructure of that footwell. It seems that below the
                            sides of the benches, the footwell opens up across the entire bottom -
                            in between the bulkheads that is. I am not sure about this though, which
                            is why I asked Miles to describe that area, and as his time allows, post
                            some additional photographs.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > My inclination would be to run the sides of those benches all the way
                            to the sole, sealing off the bench interior volume for positive buoyancy
                            and storage. The forward part of the bench storage area could be
                            accessed from inside the cabin, while the aft storage area could be
                            accessed through hatches cut into the sides of the footwell.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Of course, that takes away any potential self-draining capability for
                            the footwell. Installing a bilge pump, backed up by a bucket and sponge,
                            should resolve that issue. This assumes the cockpit footwell hatch isn't
                            in place, for whatever reason.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > I see no problem adding steel plates or batteries or water jugs as
                            >
                            > > ballast. In fact I see it as an advantage to water ballast tanks as
                            it
                            >
                            > > is can be adjusted or even removed when using the boat as a motor
                            boat
                            >
                            > > only. Steel plated bottom seems far too much work in my opinion.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please
                            gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yeah, steel plated bottoms are a lot of trouble. But if you want metal
                            way down low, and with a flat bottom sans keel, it is a great solution.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The other possibility is sheathing the hull below the waterline in
                            copper. Any thoughts on this idea?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > I totally agree with adding foam insulation to extend the season and
                            >
                            > > lessen condensation as well as adding flotation . Adding more
                            windows
                            >
                            > > might take away from that though, unless they are double paned -
                            which
                            >
                            > > would make them very strong. I think the slot top lets in enough
                            light
                            >
                            > > most of the time and if closed off, the encloser could have a
                            >
                            > > transparent panel.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > I like the idea of double-paned windows, but how does one ensure that
                            they don't fog up? Won't the window frames will eventually let in some
                            moisture, even well sealed ones?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > Some builders add a hard enclosure for traveling or going off-shore
                            and
                            >
                            > > a bowed soft top for inland camp cruising. If the hard encloser
                            hinges
                            >
                            > > off to the side you can carry both. The slot top has many options
                            while
                            >
                            > > adding to the knockdown capability and to me is one of the greatest
                            >
                            > > inventions in a small cruiser.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > In addition to its versatility and knockdown capability, the slot
                            top/Birdwatcher cabin is wonderful for people such as myself, who are
                            far taller than average. Most boats are designed for small to average
                            people. I don't like those boats.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            >
                            > Luke
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • luke_seubert
                            Yeah, that is out of line. I understand that the Paradox folks don t care for motors, and might even rank it as heresy. But to boot a newbie without
                            Message 13 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yeah, that is out of line. I understand that the Paradox folks don't care for motors, and might even rank it as heresy.

                              But to boot a newbie without explanation is going too far. Take the time to send a private message and explain why such a topic is verboten. Be polite, but firm, about enforcing the group's values and ways.

                              All social groups have their taboos, and enforce them in various ways - this group included. I think motors on Paradox boats is a silly taboo, but that is the group zeitgeist.

                              Cheers,
                              Luke

                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Reminds me of when I got banned from a group when I mentioned the "OB"
                              > word:-)
                              >
                              > My first (and last) post was asking Don what size engine he recommended
                              > for Paradox.
                              >
                              > Had no idea that was not a good thing to ask him.
                              >
                              > Nels
                            • luke_seubert
                              Yup - motors on sailboats as supplemental power makes sense. Motors exclusively on a boat designed for sail? Not so sensible. I find the article you listed
                              Message 14 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Yup - motors on sailboats as supplemental power makes sense. Motors exclusively on a boat designed for sail? Not so sensible.

                                I find the article you listed about converting old sailboats to motor trawlers fascinating, even though I dislike the idea. I'm not sure that I agree with the author that old sailboats make for good, safe motor trawlers. Cheap motor trawlers? Sure, for now. But good ones? Hmmmm - not so sure about that.

                                And where will these converted motor trawlers be when the price of gasoline spikes up again, as we all know it will someday, somewhere north of $6 or $7 per gallon? Selling off those sails will start to look a little shortsighted then.

                                Cheers,
                                Luke

                                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > LMAO... ROFL as well at  the comment...
                                >
                                > "Motor boat only?!? Eeeeek! EVIL! And again I say, EVIL! Please gentlemen, sails for the sailboat ;-)"
                                >
                                > I do agree except as supplemental power in emergency or in crowded harbor traffic.
                                >
                                > There appears to be a NEW TREND of buying up old sailboats and removing all rigging and making budget diesel trawlers out of them.  There have been one or two articles in Duckworks Magazine about folks doing that.  To me what a shame to take a Pearson Ariel or Alberg 30 and reduce it to a trawler.
                                >
                                > This is the latest article about the trend of this quasi-Heresy..
                                > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/howto/terminal/index.htm
                                > and there is an article about making a power Pelican sans sails too... ***sigh***
                                >
                                > I am an old fogey who learned on 19ft grand banks dory off the NH coast as a boy.  I still favor the KISS principle and making sailing easy and fun.
                                >
                                > EVIL!  Yes indeed thoroughly Evil at that    LOL
                                >
                                > Andrew
                              • luke_seubert
                                ... I think, but am not sure, that the cockpit/aft deck of Blobster is a bit different from Viola. Viola has a substantial aft buoyancy box , from the looks
                                Message 15 of 29 , Aug 5, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I will try to clarify things a bit from my perspective.
                                  >
                                  > I think the cockpit/aft deck on the Blobster is the same as on Viola 22
                                  > for which Jim says:
                                  >
                                  > "Aft of the cabin is a large flat cockpit with great storage
                                  > underneath which is accessible from both the cockpit and
                                  > from the cabin. One trip on a Micro will show you what
                                  > a wonderful setup this is. Best of all, this type of deck
                                  > is very quick and easy to build."
                                  >
                                  > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
                                  >
                                  I think, but am not sure, that the cockpit/aft deck of Blobster is a bit different from Viola. Viola has a substantial aft "buoyancy box", from the looks of it. Blobster might have a thin one, but it does have a small wet well. Now the deck and footwell parts of the cockpit might be very similar between Viola and Blobster.

                                  By the way, to clarify a point of confusion. The structure I refer to as "benches" is the part of the cockpit running along the port and starboard sides, where one usually sits. I know it isn't a "bench" in the conventional sense, but I use the term to distinguish these areas from the center of the cockpit, which is occupied by covered deck, open footwell, and then covered deck.

                                  What I do not understand about the Blobster cockpit design, is the footwell area. That is the source of my confusion. If I could get a proper description, or some photos, then I would understand it better.

                                  > You might also notice the scuppers in the sides immediately aft the main
                                  > bulkhead. I would not make them too small as they can get plugged with
                                  > leaves etc., if the boat is stored outside and it storms, allowing
                                  > rainwater to lie on the deck. and could lead to the paint lifting or
                                  > bubbling.
                                  >
                                  > No need ever for a bilge pump with that setup. A sponge at most!
                                  >
                                  So long as the footwell hatch is in place. If the footwell hatch is removed while sailing, the footwell is exposed and water can get in there. Now, that need not be a large problem, depending on the design - which, as I stated above, I don't fully understand at this point.


                                  > A fellow from OZ has built two Micros, one with the builder requiring a
                                  > self-draining cockpit which he did but only because he was ordered to. I
                                  > guess it depends on personal preference. If I was going to have one I
                                  > would want a cover over it if stored outside and give up the extra
                                  > storage space below - which is amazing in a Micro - as you can crawl
                                  > right inside from the cabin. With a self-draining cockpit you only have
                                  > two narrow storage accesses on each side and a bit under the well. One
                                  > Micro owner installed two deadlights in the sides of the hold and his
                                  > kids slept there and used it as a playpen:-)
                                  >
                                  I understand and appreciate all the storage space, potential storage space, that exists underneath the cockpit deck. One can place an enormous amount of stuff in there, and it can also serve as a large watertight volume with lots of positive buoyancy. These are all good things.


                                  > Inner window panels could be removable if they seep. Actually I like the
                                  > wiley port design that can be opened of closed right off with some foam
                                  > bits. Will try to upload a file on it.
                                  >
                                  Please post a message if you are able to upload the file - I would like to see it. Thanks.


                                  > I looked hard and long into electric as well. Gets very complicated and
                                  > expensive if done to have reliable recharging capability. Even have a
                                  > small genset I could use, but you have to carry gas for it anyway. To
                                  > get shore power for recharging, means staying at marinas instead of
                                  > stopping anywhere you prefer. I have a professional background in both
                                  > wind and solar power and neither option works that well in a sheltered
                                  > anchorage. Solar panels are much overrated as to their actual
                                  > performance. Even the best deep-cycle batteries can not be discharged
                                  > more than 50 percent or so without risking damage. A 5 liter gas tank
                                  > will out-last 100 lb of batteries in my view and are a lot easier to
                                  > replenish.
                                  >
                                  Technologically, we are getting close to really efficient solar panels and really power dense batteries, but we aren't quite there yet - unless you want to pay a lot of money, that is. There are some early prototype airplanes - reconnaissance aircraft mostly - which use solar panels on the wings and batteries to stay aloft for extended periods. That technology will trickle down and drop in cost eventually, at which time, electric-solar boats will become more practical, especially if they include a wind generator.

                                  But yeah, I think you are right - right now, solar-electric for main propulsion doesn't work. As supplemental propulsion? Hmm, possibly. Right now, gas motors are cheaper. But solar panels and batteries should suffice for navigation, communication, and audio systems.

                                  Cheers,
                                  Luke
                                • Alan Shapcott
                                  Hi, Have you not seen this picture which shows the arrangement very well...? I believe this is essentially the same as a Bolger Micro. Nels? I hasten to add
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Aug 6, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi,
                                    Have you not seen this picture which shows the arrangement very well...? I believe this is essentially the same as a Bolger Micro. Nels?
                                    I hasten to add that I know only what I have seen on the net and in Bolger's books with regards to both these designs!!
                                    http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4738692/sn/1417607285/name/10_All+done+and+waiting+for+the+paint+job.jpg
                                    Cheers,
                                    Alan.

                                    --- On Fri, 6/8/10, luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...> wrote:

                                    From: luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...>
                                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
                                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Friday, 6, August, 2010, 4:08 PM



                                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I will try to clarify things a bit from my perspective.
                                    >
                                    > I think the cockpit/aft deck on the Blobster is the same as on Viola 22
                                    > for which Jim says:
                                    >
                                    > "Aft of the cabin is a large flat cockpit with great storage
                                    > underneath which is accessible from both the cockpit and
                                    > from the cabin. One trip on a Micro will show you what
                                    > a wonderful setup this is. Best of all, this type of deck
                                    > is very quick and easy to build."
                                    >
                                    > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
                                    >
                                    I think, but am not sure, that the cockpit/aft deck of Blobster is a bit different from Viola. Viola has a substantial aft "buoyancy box", from the looks of it. Blobster might have a thin one, but it does have a small wet well. Now the deck and footwell parts of the cockpit might be very similar between Viola and Blobster.

                                    By the way, to clarify a point of confusion. The structure I refer to as "benches" is the part of the cockpit running along the port and starboard sides, where one usually sits. I know it isn't a "bench" in the conventional sense, but I use the term to distinguish these areas from the center of the cockpit, which is occupied by covered deck, open footwell, and then covered deck.

                                    What I do not understand about the Blobster cockpit design, is the footwell area. That is the source of my confusion. If I could get a proper description, or some photos, then I would understand it better.

                                    > You might also notice the scuppers in the sides immediately aft the main
                                    > bulkhead. I would not make them too small as they can get plugged with
                                    > leaves etc., if the boat is stored outside and it storms, allowing
                                    > rainwater to lie on the deck. and could lead to the paint lifting or
                                    > bubbling.
                                    >
                                    > No need ever for a bilge pump with that setup. A sponge at most!
                                    >
                                    So long as the footwell hatch is in place. If the footwell hatch is removed while sailing, the footwell is exposed and water can get in there. Now, that need not be a large problem, depending on the design - which, as I stated above, I don't fully understand at this point.


                                    > A fellow from OZ has built two Micros, one with the builder requiring a
                                    > self-draining cockpit which he did but only because he was ordered to. I
                                    > guess it depends on personal preference.  If I was going to have one I
                                    > would want a cover over it if stored outside and give up the extra
                                    > storage space below - which is amazing in a Micro - as you can crawl
                                    > right inside from the cabin. With a self-draining cockpit you only have
                                    > two narrow storage accesses on each side and a bit under the well. One
                                    > Micro owner installed two deadlights in the sides of the hold and his
                                    > kids slept there and used it as a playpen:-)
                                    >
                                    I understand and appreciate all the storage space, potential storage space, that exists underneath the cockpit deck. One can place an enormous amount of stuff in there, and it can also serve as a large watertight volume with lots of positive buoyancy. These are all good things.


                                    > Inner window panels could be removable if they seep. Actually I like the
                                    > wiley port design that can be opened of closed right off with some foam
                                    > bits. Will try to upload a file on it.
                                    >
                                    Please post a message if you are able to upload the file - I would like to see it. Thanks.


                                    > I looked hard and long into electric as well. Gets very complicated and
                                    > expensive  if done to have reliable recharging capability. Even have a
                                    > small genset I could use, but you have to carry gas for it anyway. To
                                    > get shore power for recharging, means staying at marinas instead of
                                    > stopping anywhere you prefer. I have a professional background in both
                                    > wind and solar power and neither option works that well in a sheltered
                                    > anchorage. Solar panels are much overrated as to their actual
                                    > performance.  Even the best deep-cycle batteries can not be discharged
                                    > more than 50 percent or so without risking damage.  A 5 liter gas tank
                                    > will out-last 100 lb of batteries in my view and are a lot easier to
                                    > replenish.
                                    >
                                    Technologically, we are getting close to really efficient solar panels and really power dense batteries, but we aren't quite there yet - unless you want to pay a lot of money, that is. There are some early prototype airplanes - reconnaissance aircraft mostly - which use solar panels on the wings and batteries to stay aloft for extended periods. That technology will trickle down and drop in cost eventually, at which time, electric-solar boats will become more practical, especially if they include a wind generator.

                                    But yeah, I think you are right - right now, solar-electric for main propulsion doesn't work. As supplemental propulsion? Hmm, possibly. Right now, gas motors are cheaper. But solar panels and batteries should suffice for navigation, communication, and audio systems.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Luke



                                    ------------------------------------

                                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Alan Shapcott
                                    Hello Luke, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/1820081684/pic/list One of these pictures shows Nels Micro under-the-cockpit hold area. Its
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Aug 6, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hello Luke,
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/1820081684/pic/list
                                      One of these pictures shows Nels' Micro under-the-cockpit hold area. Its all just a completely open area under the flat cockpit. There is no seperate footwell as such, just the hatch opening. I imagine it would be pleasant to sleep below here with the hatch-cover open in warm weather....
                                      Alan.

                                      --- On Fri, 6/8/10, Alan Shapcott <logicaid@...> wrote:

                                      From: Alan Shapcott <logicaid@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
                                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Friday, 6, August, 2010, 11:41 PM

                                      Hi,
                                      Have you not seen this picture which shows the arrangement very well...? I believe this is essentially the same as a Bolger Micro. Nels?
                                      I hasten to add that I know only what I have seen on the net and in Bolger's books with regards to both these designs!!
                                      http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4738692/sn/1417607285/name/10_All+done+and+waiting+for+the+paint+job.jpg
                                      Cheers,
                                      Alan.

                                      --- On Fri, 6/8/10, luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...> wrote:

                                      From: luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...>
                                      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
                                      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Friday, 6, August, 2010, 4:08 PM



                                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I will try to clarify things a bit from my perspective.
                                      >
                                      > I think the cockpit/aft deck on the Blobster is the same as on Viola 22
                                      > for which Jim says:
                                      >
                                      > "Aft of the cabin is a large flat cockpit with great storage
                                      > underneath which is accessible from both the cockpit and
                                      > from the cabin. One trip on a Micro will show you what
                                      > a wonderful setup this is. Best of all, this type of deck
                                      > is very quick and easy to build."
                                      >
                                      > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
                                      >
                                      I think, but am not sure, that the cockpit/aft deck of Blobster is a bit different from Viola. Viola has a substantial aft "buoyancy box", from the looks of it. Blobster might have a thin one, but it does have a small wet well. Now the deck and footwell parts of the cockpit might be very similar between Viola and Blobster.

                                      By the way, to clarify a point of confusion. The structure I refer to as "benches" is the part of the cockpit running along the port and starboard sides, where one usually sits. I know it isn't a "bench" in the conventional sense, but I use the term to distinguish these areas from the center of the cockpit, which is occupied by covered deck, open footwell, and then covered deck.

                                      What I do not understand about the Blobster cockpit design, is the footwell area. That is the source of my confusion. If I could get a proper description, or some photos, then I would understand it better.

                                      > You might also notice the scuppers in the sides immediately aft the main
                                      > bulkhead. I would not make them too small as they can get plugged with
                                      > leaves etc., if the boat is stored outside and it storms, allowing
                                      > rainwater to lie on the deck. and could lead to the paint lifting or
                                      > bubbling.
                                      >
                                      > No need ever for a bilge pump with that setup. A sponge at most!
                                      >
                                      So long as the footwell hatch is in place. If the footwell hatch is removed while sailing, the footwell is exposed and water can get in there. Now, that need not be a large problem, depending on the design - which, as I stated above, I don't fully understand at this point.


                                      > A fellow from OZ has built two Micros, one with the builder requiring a
                                      > self-draining cockpit which he did but only because he was ordered to. I
                                      > guess it depends on personal preference. If I was going to have one I
                                      > would want a cover over it if stored outside and give up the extra
                                      > storage space below - which is amazing in a Micro - as you can crawl
                                      > right inside from the cabin. With a self-draining cockpit you only have
                                      > two narrow storage accesses on each side and a bit under the well. One
                                      > Micro owner installed two deadlights in the sides of the hold and his
                                      > kids slept there and used it as a playpen:-)
                                      >
                                      I understand and appreciate all the storage space, potential storage space, that exists underneath the cockpit deck. One can place an enormous amount of stuff in there, and it can also serve as a large watertight volume with lots of positive buoyancy. These are all good things.


                                      > Inner window panels could be removable if they seep. Actually I like the
                                      > wiley port design that can be opened of closed right off with some foam
                                      > bits. Will try to upload a file on it.
                                      >
                                      Please post a message if you are able to upload the file - I would like to see it. Thanks.


                                      > I looked hard and long into electric as well. Gets very complicated and
                                      > expensive if done to have reliable recharging capability. Even have a
                                      > small genset I could use, but you have to carry gas for it anyway. To
                                      > get shore power for recharging, means staying at marinas instead of
                                      > stopping anywhere you prefer. I have a professional background in both
                                      > wind and solar power and neither option works that well in a sheltered
                                      > anchorage. Solar panels are much overrated as to their actual
                                      > performance. Even the best deep-cycle batteries can not be discharged
                                      > more than 50 percent or so without risking damage. A 5 liter gas tank
                                      > will out-last 100 lb of batteries in my view and are a lot easier to
                                      > replenish.
                                      >
                                      Technologically, we are getting close to really efficient solar panels and really power dense batteries, but we aren't quite there yet - unless you want to pay a lot of money, that is. There are some early prototype airplanes - reconnaissance aircraft mostly - which use solar panels on the wings and batteries to stay aloft for extended periods. That technology will trickle down and drop in cost eventually, at which time, electric-solar boats will become more practical, especially if they include a wind generator.

                                      But yeah, I think you are right - right now, solar-electric for main propulsion doesn't work. As supplemental propulsion? Hmm, possibly. Right now, gas motors are cheaper. But solar panels and batteries should suffice for navigation, communication, and audio systems.

                                      Cheers,
                                      Luke



                                      ------------------------------------

                                      Yahoo! Groups Links





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                      ------------------------------------

                                      Yahoo! Groups Links





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • prairiedog2332
                                      No! Have not seen that photo. Is that a Blobster? Interesting to compare with the Micro.
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Aug 6, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        No! Have not seen that photo. Is that a Blobster? Interesting to compare
                                        with the Micro.

                                        <http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4738692/sn/1417607285/name/10_All+done+and\
                                        +waiting+for+the+paint+job.jpg>

                                        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/1820081684/pic/4993\
                                        06809/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc>

                                        The Micro has higher companionway rails which results in the opening
                                        being higher off the deck and less chance of slop entering the cabin.
                                        But it does not have the slot opening forward. Also the Micro has a
                                        rectangular hatch opening. Blobster appears to be more square so not as
                                        much leg room if sailing with the hatch cover off.

                                        This deck set-up can easily be "converted" to a foot well by installing
                                        a tub box in the hatch opening for ones feet. But if you go for a
                                        self-draining foot well not so easy to convert back.

                                        Nels


                                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Alan Shapcott <logicaid@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hi,
                                        > Have you not seen this picture which shows the arrangement very
                                        well...? I believe this is essentially the same as a Bolger Micro. Nels?
                                        > I hasten to add that I know only what I have seen on the net and in
                                        Bolger's books with regards to both these designs!!
                                        >
                                        http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4738692/sn/1417607285/name/10_All+done+and+\
                                        waiting+for+the+paint+job.jpg
                                        > Cheers,
                                        > Alan.
                                        >
                                        > --- On Fri, 6/8/10, luke_seubert luke_seubert@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > From: luke_seubert luke_seubert@...
                                        > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for
                                        Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
                                        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Friday, 6, August, 2010, 4:08 PM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" nelsarv@ wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > I will try to clarify things a bit from my perspective.
                                        > >
                                        > > I think the cockpit/aft deck on the Blobster is the same as on Viola
                                        22
                                        > > for which Jim says:
                                        > >
                                        > > "Aft of the cabin is a large flat cockpit with great storage
                                        > > underneath which is accessible from both the cockpit and
                                        > > from the cabin. One trip on a Micro will show you what
                                        > > a wonderful setup this is. Best of all, this type of deck
                                        > > is very quick and easy to build."
                                        > >
                                        > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
                                        > >
                                        > I think, but am not sure, that the cockpit/aft deck of Blobster is a
                                        bit different from Viola. Viola has a substantial aft "buoyancy box",
                                        from the looks of it. Blobster might have a thin one, but it does have a
                                        small wet well. Now the deck and footwell parts of the cockpit might be
                                        very similar between Viola and Blobster.
                                        >
                                        > By the way, to clarify a point of confusion. The structure I refer to
                                        as "benches" is the part of the cockpit running along the port and
                                        starboard sides, where one usually sits. I know it isn't a "bench" in
                                        the conventional sense, but I use the term to distinguish these areas
                                        from the center of the cockpit, which is occupied by covered deck, open
                                        footwell, and then covered deck.
                                        >
                                        > What I do not understand about the Blobster cockpit design, is the
                                        footwell area. That is the source of my confusion. If I could get a
                                        proper description, or some photos, then I would understand it better.
                                        >
                                        > > You might also notice the scuppers in the sides immediately aft the
                                        main
                                        > > bulkhead. I would not make them too small as they can get plugged
                                        with
                                        > > leaves etc., if the boat is stored outside and it storms, allowing
                                        > > rainwater to lie on the deck. and could lead to the paint lifting or
                                        > > bubbling.
                                        > >
                                        > > No need ever for a bilge pump with that setup. A sponge at most!
                                        > >
                                        > So long as the footwell hatch is in place. If the footwell hatch is
                                        removed while sailing, the footwell is exposed and water can get in
                                        there. Now, that need not be a large problem, depending on the design -
                                        which, as I stated above, I don't fully understand at this point.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > A fellow from OZ has built two Micros, one with the builder
                                        requiring a
                                        > > self-draining cockpit which he did but only because he was ordered
                                        to. I
                                        > > guess it depends on personal preference. If I was going to have one
                                        I
                                        > > would want a cover over it if stored outside and give up the extra
                                        > > storage space below - which is amazing in a Micro - as you can crawl
                                        > > right inside from the cabin. With a self-draining cockpit you only
                                        have
                                        > > two narrow storage accesses on each side and a bit under the well.
                                        One
                                        > > Micro owner installed two deadlights in the sides of the hold and
                                        his
                                        > > kids slept there and used it as a playpen:-)
                                        > >
                                        > I understand and appreciate all the storage space, potential storage
                                        space, that exists underneath the cockpit deck. One can place an
                                        enormous amount of stuff in there, and it can also serve as a large
                                        watertight volume with lots of positive buoyancy. These are all good
                                        things.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Inner window panels could be removable if they seep. Actually I like
                                        the
                                        > > wiley port design that can be opened of closed right off with some
                                        foam
                                        > > bits. Will try to upload a file on it.
                                        > >
                                        > Please post a message if you are able to upload the file - I would
                                        like to see it. Thanks.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > I looked hard and long into electric as well. Gets very complicated
                                        and
                                        > > expensive if done to have reliable recharging capability. Even have
                                        a
                                        > > small genset I could use, but you have to carry gas for it anyway.
                                        To
                                        > > get shore power for recharging, means staying at marinas instead of
                                        > > stopping anywhere you prefer. I have a professional background in
                                        both
                                        > > wind and solar power and neither option works that well in a
                                        sheltered
                                        > > anchorage. Solar panels are much overrated as to their actual
                                        > > performance. Even the best deep-cycle batteries can not be
                                        discharged
                                        > > more than 50 percent or so without risking damage. A 5 liter gas
                                        tank
                                        > > will out-last 100 lb of batteries in my view and are a lot easier to
                                        > > replenish.
                                        > >
                                        > Technologically, we are getting close to really efficient solar panels
                                        and really power dense batteries, but we aren't quite there yet - unless
                                        you want to pay a lot of money, that is. There are some early prototype
                                        airplanes - reconnaissance aircraft mostly - which use solar panels on
                                        the wings and batteries to stay aloft for extended periods. That
                                        technology will trickle down and drop in cost eventually, at which time,
                                        electric-solar boats will become more practical, especially if they
                                        include a wind generator.
                                        >
                                        > But yeah, I think you are right - right now, solar-electric for main
                                        propulsion doesn't work. As supplemental propulsion? Hmm, possibly.
                                        Right now, gas motors are cheaper. But solar panels and batteries should
                                        suffice for navigation, communication, and audio systems.
                                        >
                                        > Cheers,
                                        > Luke
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • prairiedog2332
                                        I am not aware of the finer points of installing a steel plate bottom to a sharpie. I have read some information about the Bolger idea in MAIB at one time, and
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Aug 6, 2010
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                                          I am not aware of the finer points of installing a steel plate bottom to
                                          a sharpie. I have read some information about the Bolger idea in MAIB at
                                          one time, and Susanne has written about it at the Bolger group.

                                          I think it would work great on a Jukebox3 for example. (Which calls for
                                          water ballast tanks,) For some reason I find the idea a bit
                                          intimidating. I wonder what the advantage is to just adding another
                                          layer of plywood to the bottom with heavier glass? I guess the answer
                                          obviously is that steel is heavier and has more abrasion resistance.

                                          I am not convinced it won't rust in fresh water, but there are barrier
                                          coats that can protect it.

                                          I guess my main concern is first getting it bent properly to match the
                                          hull rocker and then trimmed to the bilge interface. Then attaching and
                                          sealing it to the plywood bottom with no chance of rot invading it. The
                                          two materials have different expansion/contraction coefficients, plus
                                          there are all those screw holes that require sealing. So a sealant like
                                          3M5200 would have to be used and maybe tighten the screws so it squeezes
                                          out to seal the holes?

                                          Then the heavier hull has to be turned upright, wheras installing an
                                          extra plywood layer and then some addtional internal iron ballast can be
                                          done after it is flipped, and is protected from water inside the hull
                                          and can be relocated for best balance.

                                          So far as I know this has never been accepted as an option, which also
                                          makes me wonder why not?

                                          With all respect, Susanne Altenburger is a terrific engineer. But has
                                          she ever actually built a boat? Two of her designs have been less than
                                          successful in actual usage. But that is not relevant to this group as
                                          they were quite a lot larger than most of us are looking into.

                                          Nels

                                          >
                                          > I wanted to comment on the cost of the steel plate bottoms for
                                          sharpies.
                                          >
                                          > I have not built a sharpie, much less one with a steel plate bottom as
                                          ballast. I do however think it is a great idea on so many fronts. A
                                          year or more ago, I purchased plans for the Bolger AS29, and 39. I also
                                          received with the AS29 plans some Bolger "updates" including some very
                                          interesting info on insulating, and steel plate ballast.
                                          >
                                          > While "researching" costs for the boat project, I asked my local metal
                                          work guy (owns a metalworking business) about the cost of using steel
                                          plate as ballast. In a nutshell, I thought it was cheap, actually
                                          cheaper than I had imagined. The steel plate is very cheap, you
                                          basically pay a commodity price for it. The shipping of the plate is
                                          what will cost you, often more than the product itself. My friend said
                                          if I could wait until he batched an order (bi-monthly), the shipping
                                          cost would be less.
                                          >
                                          > The cost of cutting the plate, grinding the edges, and drilling the
                                          holes is done by the hour, but would not take long. Bending would take
                                          just minutes on the press.
                                          >
                                          > I did not get an estimate on galvanizing. On a trailer boat it would
                                          not be needed. I can't imagine ballast on a Michalak boat being more
                                          than a few hundred US. Now if you can do something for free, any price
                                          is expensive, but I really felt the steel plate was cheap. Now compare
                                          that to lead. Yeah sure it "may" be free, if you chase it down, but
                                          your going to have to buy stuff and really mess with it to get it to do
                                          what you want (IE, melting, casting, etc). There is a cost of time, and
                                          money there too.
                                          >
                                          > Again, no argument, just pointing out that steel plate is (from a
                                          mechanical perspective) fairly cheap and easy.
                                          >
                                          > Have a wonderful weekend everyone!
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Chris
                                          >
                                        • TheM
                                          When I still had the AS29 plans with the new updates there was a few pages Bolger wrote up about mounting steel plate. I m sure I ll bastardize it all up,
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Aug 6, 2010
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                                            When I still had the AS29 plans with the new "updates" there was a few pages Bolger wrote up about mounting steel plate. I'm sure I'll bastardize it all up, but essentially this is what he was trying to do:

                                            Make the plates sized for easy handling, that will multiply easily on your boat, but also make the most efficient use of plate sizes.

                                            Each plate got one bolt per corner. Corners were rounded, and chamfered bolts were used.

                                            Bolger suggested drilling the bolt holes oversize and sealing with epoxy. Then re-drilling with the correct size. He also suggested using 5200 to seal. He expected you to use large hardware and washers, and to see 5200 squashed up through the bolt holes.

                                            Lastly, my mechanical guy says the bending part is a breeze and can be done quickly. You can paint, but galvanizing is also an option, and not too costly (considering you can dump a grand or more into a bottom job quite easily (trust me!!!)).

                                            before reading what Bolger had written, I did not know how it could work also. I think La Cabotin has a bottom done up that way.

                                            Anyway, that is another fine sharpie I would love to see more of.

                                            I must stop blabbering. I'm almost done building a small travel trailer but I must get back to it. We finally leave Idaho in two weeks, Yahoo!

                                            Have a good weekend all!!!!

                                            CC

                                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I am not aware of the finer points of installing a steel plate bottom to
                                            > a sharpie. I have read some information about the Bolger idea in MAIB at
                                            > one time, and Susanne has written about it at the Bolger group.
                                            >
                                            > I think it would work great on a Jukebox3 for example. (Which calls for
                                            > water ballast tanks,) For some reason I find the idea a bit
                                            > intimidating. I wonder what the advantage is to just adding another
                                            > layer of plywood to the bottom with heavier glass? I guess the answer
                                            > obviously is that steel is heavier and has more abrasion resistance.
                                            >
                                            > I am not convinced it won't rust in fresh water, but there are barrier
                                            > coats that can protect it.
                                            >
                                            > I guess my main concern is first getting it bent properly to match the
                                            > hull rocker and then trimmed to the bilge interface. Then attaching and
                                            > sealing it to the plywood bottom with no chance of rot invading it. The
                                            > two materials have different expansion/contraction coefficients, plus
                                            > there are all those screw holes that require sealing. So a sealant like
                                            > 3M5200 would have to be used and maybe tighten the screws so it squeezes
                                            > out to seal the holes?
                                            >
                                            > Then the heavier hull has to be turned upright, wheras installing an
                                            > extra plywood layer and then some addtional internal iron ballast can be
                                            > done after it is flipped, and is protected from water inside the hull
                                            > and can be relocated for best balance.
                                            >
                                            > So far as I know this has never been accepted as an option, which also
                                            > makes me wonder why not?
                                            >
                                            > With all respect, Susanne Altenburger is a terrific engineer. But has
                                            > she ever actually built a boat? Two of her designs have been less than
                                            > successful in actual usage. But that is not relevant to this group as
                                            > they were quite a lot larger than most of us are looking into.
                                            >
                                            > Nels
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            > > I wanted to comment on the cost of the steel plate bottoms for
                                            > sharpies.
                                            > >
                                            > > I have not built a sharpie, much less one with a steel plate bottom as
                                            > ballast. I do however think it is a great idea on so many fronts. A
                                            > year or more ago, I purchased plans for the Bolger AS29, and 39. I also
                                            > received with the AS29 plans some Bolger "updates" including some very
                                            > interesting info on insulating, and steel plate ballast.
                                            > >
                                            > > While "researching" costs for the boat project, I asked my local metal
                                            > work guy (owns a metalworking business) about the cost of using steel
                                            > plate as ballast. In a nutshell, I thought it was cheap, actually
                                            > cheaper than I had imagined. The steel plate is very cheap, you
                                            > basically pay a commodity price for it. The shipping of the plate is
                                            > what will cost you, often more than the product itself. My friend said
                                            > if I could wait until he batched an order (bi-monthly), the shipping
                                            > cost would be less.
                                            > >
                                            > > The cost of cutting the plate, grinding the edges, and drilling the
                                            > holes is done by the hour, but would not take long. Bending would take
                                            > just minutes on the press.
                                            > >
                                            > > I did not get an estimate on galvanizing. On a trailer boat it would
                                            > not be needed. I can't imagine ballast on a Michalak boat being more
                                            > than a few hundred US. Now if you can do something for free, any price
                                            > is expensive, but I really felt the steel plate was cheap. Now compare
                                            > that to lead. Yeah sure it "may" be free, if you chase it down, but
                                            > your going to have to buy stuff and really mess with it to get it to do
                                            > what you want (IE, melting, casting, etc). There is a cost of time, and
                                            > money there too.
                                            > >
                                            > > Again, no argument, just pointing out that steel plate is (from a
                                            > mechanical perspective) fairly cheap and easy.
                                            > >
                                            > > Have a wonderful weekend everyone!
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Chris
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Carl
                                            1/4 steel plate weighs 10.21lb/sqft, 1/2 weighs 20.42lb/sqft So why not tiles or make strips of easy to handle pieces to ballast the boat inside or outside.
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Aug 6, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              1/4" steel plate weighs 10.21lb/sqft, 1/2" weighs 20.42lb/sqft So why not tiles or make strips of easy to handle pieces to ballast the boat inside or outside. You would need the structure of the boat to be solid enough to carry the weight but you need that no matter what the steel looks like. The benefit is much simpler and cheaper fabrication of the steel. I've never done this, it just sounds like an easier way to go. It sounds like what Bolger was getting at.



                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: TheM
                                              To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 4:11 PM
                                              Subject: [Michalak] Re: Steel plate bottom?



                                              When I still had the AS29 plans with the new "updates" there was a few pages Bolger wrote up about mounting steel plate. I'm sure I'll bastardize it all up, but essentially this is what he was trying to do:

                                              Make the plates sized for easy handling, that will multiply easily on your boat, but also make the most efficient use of plate sizes.

                                              Each plate got one bolt per corner. Corners were rounded, and chamfered bolts were used.

                                              Bolger suggested drilling the bolt holes oversize and sealing with epoxy. Then re-drilling with the correct size. He also suggested using 5200 to seal. He expected you to use large hardware and washers, and to see 5200 squashed up through the bolt holes.

                                              Lastly, my mechanical guy says the bending part is a breeze and can be done quickly. You can paint, but galvanizing is also an option, and not too costly (considering you can dump a grand or more into a bottom job quite easily (trust me!!!)).

                                              before reading what Bolger had written, I did not know how it could work also. I think La Cabotin has a bottom done up that way.

                                              Anyway, that is another fine sharpie I would love to see more of.

                                              I must stop blabbering. I'm almost done building a small travel trailer but I must get back to it. We finally leave Idaho in two weeks, Yahoo!

                                              Have a good weekend all!!!!

                                              CC

                                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I am not aware of the finer points of installing a steel plate bottom to
                                              > a sharpie. I have read some information about the Bolger idea in MAIB at
                                              > one time, and Susanne has written about it at the Bolger group.
                                              >
                                              > I think it would work great on a Jukebox3 for example. (Which calls for
                                              > water ballast tanks,) For some reason I find the idea a bit
                                              > intimidating. I wonder what the advantage is to just adding another
                                              > layer of plywood to the bottom with heavier glass? I guess the answer
                                              > obviously is that steel is heavier and has more abrasion resistance.
                                              >
                                              > I am not convinced it won't rust in fresh water, but there are barrier
                                              > coats that can protect it.
                                              >
                                              > I guess my main concern is first getting it bent properly to match the
                                              > hull rocker and then trimmed to the bilge interface. Then attaching and
                                              > sealing it to the plywood bottom with no chance of rot invading it. The
                                              > two materials have different expansion/contraction coefficients, plus
                                              > there are all those screw holes that require sealing. So a sealant like
                                              > 3M5200 would have to be used and maybe tighten the screws so it squeezes
                                              > out to seal the holes?
                                              >
                                              > Then the heavier hull has to be turned upright, wheras installing an
                                              > extra plywood layer and then some addtional internal iron ballast can be
                                              > done after it is flipped, and is protected from water inside the hull
                                              > and can be relocated for best balance.
                                              >
                                              > So far as I know this has never been accepted as an option, which also
                                              > makes me wonder why not?
                                              >
                                              > With all respect, Susanne Altenburger is a terrific engineer. But has
                                              > she ever actually built a boat? Two of her designs have been less than
                                              > successful in actual usage. But that is not relevant to this group as
                                              > they were quite a lot larger than most of us are looking into.
                                              >
                                              > Nels
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > > I wanted to comment on the cost of the steel plate bottoms for
                                              > sharpies.
                                              > >
                                              > > I have not built a sharpie, much less one with a steel plate bottom as
                                              > ballast. I do however think it is a great idea on so many fronts. A
                                              > year or more ago, I purchased plans for the Bolger AS29, and 39. I also
                                              > received with the AS29 plans some Bolger "updates" including some very
                                              > interesting info on insulating, and steel plate ballast.
                                              > >
                                              > > While "researching" costs for the boat project, I asked my local metal
                                              > work guy (owns a metalworking business) about the cost of using steel
                                              > plate as ballast. In a nutshell, I thought it was cheap, actually
                                              > cheaper than I had imagined. The steel plate is very cheap, you
                                              > basically pay a commodity price for it. The shipping of the plate is
                                              > what will cost you, often more than the product itself. My friend said
                                              > if I could wait until he batched an order (bi-monthly), the shipping
                                              > cost would be less.
                                              > >
                                              > > The cost of cutting the plate, grinding the edges, and drilling the
                                              > holes is done by the hour, but would not take long. Bending would take
                                              > just minutes on the press.
                                              > >
                                              > > I did not get an estimate on galvanizing. On a trailer boat it would
                                              > not be needed. I can't imagine ballast on a Michalak boat being more
                                              > than a few hundred US. Now if you can do something for free, any price
                                              > is expensive, but I really felt the steel plate was cheap. Now compare
                                              > that to lead. Yeah sure it "may" be free, if you chase it down, but
                                              > your going to have to buy stuff and really mess with it to get it to do
                                              > what you want (IE, melting, casting, etc). There is a cost of time, and
                                              > money there too.
                                              > >
                                              > > Again, no argument, just pointing out that steel plate is (from a
                                              > mechanical perspective) fairly cheap and easy.
                                              > >
                                              > > Have a wonderful weekend everyone!
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Chris
                                              > >
                                              >





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • luke_seubert
                                              Oh yes, I have seen and studied that photo quite carefully. And yes, it does show a Micro type cargo hold underneath the cockpit deck. However, that is also a
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Aug 6, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Oh yes, I have seen and studied that photo quite carefully. And yes, it does show a Micro type cargo hold underneath the cockpit deck.

                                                However, that is also a photo of a partially completed boat. I was not sure if that was showing a test fitting of the cockpit deck, with further work to come, including installation of a footwell tub. That is why I posted the questions that I did about that structure. Basically, I was trying very hard to avoid making an assumption.

                                                But now, my confusion is cleared up. Please refer to my next post in this thread.

                                                Cheers,
                                                Luke

                                                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Alan Shapcott <logicaid@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi,
                                                > Have you not seen this picture which shows the arrangement very well...? I believe this is essentially the same as a Bolger Micro. Nels?
                                                > I hasten to add that I know only what I have seen on the net and in Bolger's books with regards to both these designs!!
                                                > http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4738692/sn/1417607285/name/10_All+done+and+waiting+for+the+paint+job.jpg
                                                > Cheers,
                                                > Alan.
                                                >
                                                > --- On Fri, 6/8/10, luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > From: luke_seubert <luke_seubert@...>
                                                > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Reply: Is the Blobster suitable for Cheasapeake Bay cruising?
                                                > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Date: Friday, 6, August, 2010, 4:08 PM
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > I will try to clarify things a bit from my perspective.
                                                > >
                                                > > I think the cockpit/aft deck on the Blobster is the same as on Viola 22
                                                > > for which Jim says:
                                                > >
                                                > > "Aft of the cabin is a large flat cockpit with great storage
                                                > > underneath which is accessible from both the cockpit and
                                                > > from the cabin. One trip on a Micro will show you what
                                                > > a wonderful setup this is. Best of all, this type of deck
                                                > > is very quick and easy to build."
                                                > >
                                                > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
                                                > >
                                                > I think, but am not sure, that the cockpit/aft deck of Blobster is a bit different from Viola. Viola has a substantial aft "buoyancy box", from the looks of it. Blobster might have a thin one, but it does have a small wet well. Now the deck and footwell parts of the cockpit might be very similar between Viola and Blobster.
                                                >
                                                > By the way, to clarify a point of confusion. The structure I refer to as "benches" is the part of the cockpit running along the port and starboard sides, where one usually sits. I know it isn't a "bench" in the conventional sense, but I use the term to distinguish these areas from the center of the cockpit, which is occupied by covered deck, open footwell, and then covered deck.
                                                >
                                                > What I do not understand about the Blobster cockpit design, is the footwell area. That is the source of my confusion. If I could get a proper description, or some photos, then I would understand it better.
                                                >
                                                > > You might also notice the scuppers in the sides immediately aft the main
                                                > > bulkhead. I would not make them too small as they can get plugged with
                                                > > leaves etc., if the boat is stored outside and it storms, allowing
                                                > > rainwater to lie on the deck. and could lead to the paint lifting or
                                                > > bubbling.
                                                > >
                                                > > No need ever for a bilge pump with that setup. A sponge at most!
                                                > >
                                                > So long as the footwell hatch is in place. If the footwell hatch is removed while sailing, the footwell is exposed and water can get in there. Now, that need not be a large problem, depending on the design - which, as I stated above, I don't fully understand at this point.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > A fellow from OZ has built two Micros, one with the builder requiring a
                                                > > self-draining cockpit which he did but only because he was ordered to. I
                                                > > guess it depends on personal preference.  If I was going to have one I
                                                > > would want a cover over it if stored outside and give up the extra
                                                > > storage space below - which is amazing in a Micro - as you can crawl
                                                > > right inside from the cabin. With a self-draining cockpit you only have
                                                > > two narrow storage accesses on each side and a bit under the well. One
                                                > > Micro owner installed two deadlights in the sides of the hold and his
                                                > > kids slept there and used it as a playpen:-)
                                                > >
                                                > I understand and appreciate all the storage space, potential storage space, that exists underneath the cockpit deck. One can place an enormous amount of stuff in there, and it can also serve as a large watertight volume with lots of positive buoyancy. These are all good things.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > Inner window panels could be removable if they seep. Actually I like the
                                                > > wiley port design that can be opened of closed right off with some foam
                                                > > bits. Will try to upload a file on it.
                                                > >
                                                > Please post a message if you are able to upload the file - I would like to see it. Thanks.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > I looked hard and long into electric as well. Gets very complicated and
                                                > > expensive  if done to have reliable recharging capability. Even have a
                                                > > small genset I could use, but you have to carry gas for it anyway. To
                                                > > get shore power for recharging, means staying at marinas instead of
                                                > > stopping anywhere you prefer. I have a professional background in both
                                                > > wind and solar power and neither option works that well in a sheltered
                                                > > anchorage. Solar panels are much overrated as to their actual
                                                > > performance.  Even the best deep-cycle batteries can not be discharged
                                                > > more than 50 percent or so without risking damage.  A 5 liter gas tank
                                                > > will out-last 100 lb of batteries in my view and are a lot easier to
                                                > > replenish.
                                                > >
                                                > Technologically, we are getting close to really efficient solar panels and really power dense batteries, but we aren't quite there yet - unless you want to pay a lot of money, that is. There are some early prototype airplanes - reconnaissance aircraft mostly - which use solar panels on the wings and batteries to stay aloft for extended periods. That technology will trickle down and drop in cost eventually, at which time, electric-solar boats will become more practical, especially if they include a wind generator.
                                                >
                                                > But yeah, I think you are right - right now, solar-electric for main propulsion doesn't work. As supplemental propulsion? Hmm, possibly. Right now, gas motors are cheaper. But solar panels and batteries should suffice for navigation, communication, and audio systems.
                                                >
                                                > Cheers,
                                                > Luke
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                              • luke_seubert
                                                Thank you Alan. I did find the photo you mentioned. It was this one: http://tinyurl.com/38zh92h I now much more clearly understand what is going on underneath
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Aug 6, 2010
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                                                  Thank you Alan. I did find the photo you mentioned. It was this one:
                                                  http://tinyurl.com/38zh92h

                                                  I now much more clearly understand what is going on underneath the cockpit deck of Micro, and I am quite sure Blobster as well. So my confusion is now clarity. Thanks all.

                                                  As for sleeping down there - well, little people might like it, but not me :-) I'll sleep in the cabin.

                                                  Cheers,
                                                  Luke

                                                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Alan Shapcott <logicaid@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Hello Luke,
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/1820081684/pic/list
                                                  > One of these pictures shows Nels' Micro under-the-cockpit hold area. Its all just a completely open area under the flat cockpit. There is no seperate footwell as such, just the hatch opening. I imagine it would be pleasant to sleep below here with the hatch-cover open in warm weather....
                                                  > Alan.
                                                  >
                                                • gusarbrac
                                                  Hi, I ve bought plans for Blobster and will be building one this winter in Canada. I haven t found a lot of other Blobster info on the web except yours. Is
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Oct 24, 2014
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                                                    Hi, 

                                                    I've bought plans for Blobster and will be building one this winter in Canada.  I haven't found a lot of other Blobster info on the web except yours.  Is yours still the only one built?

                                                    Cheers, 

                                                    Jamie
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