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RE: [Michalak] Re: Beginning of a Vireo in South Carolina

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  • John and Kathy Trussell
    Tim, There are all kinds of approaches to temporary frames/moulds. You can use a panel product such as plywood (or CDX plywood, particle board or even OSB-I
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 12, 2010
      Tim,



      There are all kinds of approaches to temporary frames/moulds. You can use a
      panel product such as plywood (or CDX plywood, particle board or even OSB-I
      don't think I would use insulating foam, sheet rock, or cardboard). Or you
      can fabricate forms from lumber.



      The frames determine the shape of the boat. The frames need to be accurately
      laid out and the forward face of the forward frames and aft face of the aft
      frames need to be flush. As the boat is assembled, the sides of the boat
      will try to push inward and so the frames need to be fairly stiff to resist
      this force. If you are using timber, you need to miter the frame members and
      hold them together with plywood gussets (on the aft side of the forward
      frames and on the forward side of the aft frames). You can obtain stiffness
      with bracing, but it would probably be quicker and easier to go with a 1x4
      for the base part between the gunwales, with a second 1x4 going across
      between the chines. The triangular section between the chines and the keel
      should be stiff enough without additional bracing.



      I would point out that a) whenever I have thought I was smarter than Jim ,
      I've been wrong, b) that the point of stitch and glue is to build a boat
      very quickly, and c) that the materials that go into building a hull are a
      relatively small part of the cost of the boat (considering the cost of
      labor, paint, hardware, sandpaper, new tools, etc, etc), so unless you are
      really pinched for money (and I have been), I would follow Jim's directions.



      John



      _____

      From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of tim_cleary_sc
      Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:48 PM
      To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Michalak] Re: Beginning of a Vireo in South Carolina





      John,
      Thanks for the offer. If I may ask you this, the plans call for 4 plywood
      temporary forms that would consume approximately 1/2 sheet of plywood. Then
      they still need timber framing cleats. I was thinking the perimeters of the
      temp forms could be created with just 1x2 furring strips and then cross
      braced to hold the shape. Here's a diagram to help explain:
      http://groups.
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/9514969/view>
      yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/9514969/view

      Do you think the timber temporary forms would work as well as plywood forms?
      Tim C.

      --- In Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com, "John
      and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
      >
      > Tim,
      >
      >
      >
      > Been there; done that. Let me know what your problems are and I will try
      to
      > help (or at least share the mistakes I've made!)
      >
      >
      >
      > John Trussell
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
      [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com] On
      Behalf
      > Of tim_cleary_sc
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:16 PM
      > To: Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
      > Subject: [Michalak] Beginning of a Vireo in South Carolina
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I've received the plans for the Vireo and am inching toward starting a
      > build. A pleasant surprise was that the plans included how to build the
      > oars. I made a 1/8 scalle posterboard model to see how the panels go
      > together. It looks good, however, getting the panels to come together at
      the
      > bow was a little tricky for me. Here's a photo of the model:
      >
      > http://groups.
      > <http://groups.
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/875672263/view>
      yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/875672263/view>
      > yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/875672263/view
      >
      > Along the way, I'm hoping some of you can help with advice on how to put a
      > boat like this together.
      >
      > Tim C.
      >
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2680 - Release Date: 02/10/10
      > 14:38:00
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >



      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2682 - Release Date: 02/11/10
      11:09:00




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tim_cleary_sc
      John, Thanks for the insights. I was thinking about other projects for the ply and I ve got some extra furring strips laying around. But I think it would be
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 14, 2010
        John,
        Thanks for the insights. I was thinking about other projects for the ply and I've got some extra furring strips laying around. But I think it would be best to stick to the plans, I want this boat to come out right.
        Tim

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
        >
        > Tim,
        >
        >
        >
        > There are all kinds of approaches to temporary frames/moulds. You can use a
        > panel product such as plywood (or CDX plywood, particle board or even OSB-I
        > don't think I would use insulating foam, sheet rock, or cardboard). Or you
        > can fabricate forms from lumber.
        >
        >
        >
        > The frames determine the shape of the boat. The frames need to be accurately
        > laid out and the forward face of the forward frames and aft face of the aft
        > frames need to be flush. As the boat is assembled, the sides of the boat
        > will try to push inward and so the frames need to be fairly stiff to resist
        > this force. If you are using timber, you need to miter the frame members and
        > hold them together with plywood gussets (on the aft side of the forward
        > frames and on the forward side of the aft frames). You can obtain stiffness
        > with bracing, but it would probably be quicker and easier to go with a 1x4
        > for the base part between the gunwales, with a second 1x4 going across
        > between the chines. The triangular section between the chines and the keel
        > should be stiff enough without additional bracing.
        >
        >
        >
        > I would point out that a) whenever I have thought I was smarter than Jim ,
        > I've been wrong, b) that the point of stitch and glue is to build a boat
        > very quickly, and c) that the materials that go into building a hull are a
        > relatively small part of the cost of the boat (considering the cost of
        > labor, paint, hardware, sandpaper, new tools, etc, etc), so unless you are
        > really pinched for money (and I have been), I would follow Jim's directions.
        >
        >
        >
        > John
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        > Of tim_cleary_sc
        > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:48 PM
        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Beginning of a Vireo in South Carolina
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > John,
        > Thanks for the offer. If I may ask you this, the plans call for 4 plywood
        > temporary forms that would consume approximately 1/2 sheet of plywood. Then
        > they still need timber framing cleats. I was thinking the perimeters of the
        > temp forms could be created with just 1x2 furring strips and then cross
        > braced to hold the shape. Here's a diagram to help explain:
        > http://groups.
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/9514969/view>
        > yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/9514969/view
        >
        > Do you think the timber temporary forms would work as well as plywood forms?
        > Tim C.
        >
        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com, "John
        > and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Tim,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Been there; done that. Let me know what your problems are and I will try
        > to
        > > help (or at least share the mistakes I've made!)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > John Trussell
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > _____
        > >
        > > From: Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
        > [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com] On
        > Behalf
        > > Of tim_cleary_sc
        > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:16 PM
        > > To: Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
        > > Subject: [Michalak] Beginning of a Vireo in South Carolina
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I've received the plans for the Vireo and am inching toward starting a
        > > build. A pleasant surprise was that the plans included how to build the
        > > oars. I made a 1/8 scalle posterboard model to see how the panels go
        > > together. It looks good, however, getting the panels to come together at
        > the
        > > bow was a little tricky for me. Here's a photo of the model:
        > >
        > > http://groups.
        > > <http://groups.
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/875672263/view>
        > yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/875672263/view>
        > > yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/875672263/view
        > >
        > > Along the way, I'm hoping some of you can help with advice on how to put a
        > > boat like this together.
        > >
        > > Tim C.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2680 - Release Date: 02/10/10
        > > 14:38:00
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2682 - Release Date: 02/11/10
        > 11:09:00
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • tim_cleary_sc
        I ve made 7 and 1/2 foot oars according to the oar plan on the Vireo blueprint. However, I did substitute reinforced plywood instead of timber for the blades.
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 25, 2010
          I've made 7 and 1/2 foot oars according to the oar plan on the Vireo blueprint. However, I did substitute reinforced plywood instead of timber for the blades. Here's a photo:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/377068536/view

          Near the handles there are blue exercise ankle weights to act as counter weights. The weights bring the balance point to a few inches below the oar locks. Without the counter weights, the oars were a bit heavy, but not impossible, to use.

          I tried out the oars on my modified Auray Punt and they function well. I was concerned that the counter weights would give the oars negative buoyancy, i.e. they'd sink in case of the very real possibility that I'd accidentally drop them overboard. But a test while I was out rowing proved they'll float with about 6 inches of the blade bobbing above the waves.

          So I've got the oars, now I need to get started on the Vireo.

          Tim C.

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "tim_cleary_sc" <saturntown@...> wrote:
          >
          > John,
          > Thanks for the insights. I was thinking about other projects for the ply and I've got some extra furring strips laying around. But I think it would be best to stick to the plans, I want this boat to come out right.
          > Tim
          >
          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Tim,
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > There are all kinds of approaches to temporary frames/moulds. You can use a
          > > panel product such as plywood (or CDX plywood, particle board or even OSB-I
          > > don't think I would use insulating foam, sheet rock, or cardboard). Or you
          > > can fabricate forms from lumber.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The frames determine the shape of the boat. The frames need to be accurately
          > > laid out and the forward face of the forward frames and aft face of the aft
          > > frames need to be flush. As the boat is assembled, the sides of the boat
          > > will try to push inward and so the frames need to be fairly stiff to resist
          > > this force. If you are using timber, you need to miter the frame members and
          > > hold them together with plywood gussets (on the aft side of the forward
          > > frames and on the forward side of the aft frames). You can obtain stiffness
          > > with bracing, but it would probably be quicker and easier to go with a 1x4
          > > for the base part between the gunwales, with a second 1x4 going across
          > > between the chines. The triangular section between the chines and the keel
          > > should be stiff enough without additional bracing.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I would point out that a) whenever I have thought I was smarter than Jim ,
          > > I've been wrong, b) that the point of stitch and glue is to build a boat
          > > very quickly, and c) that the materials that go into building a hull are a
          > > relatively small part of the cost of the boat (considering the cost of
          > > labor, paint, hardware, sandpaper, new tools, etc, etc), so unless you are
          > > really pinched for money (and I have been), I would follow Jim's directions.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > John
        • John and Kathy Trussell
          Tim, Unless your knees are good, I suggest you start by building a pair of saw horses. If you put a couple of 2x4 s across them, you end up with a table to
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 25, 2010
            Tim,



            Unless your knees are good, I suggest you start by building a pair of saw
            horses. If you put a couple of 2x4's across them, you end up with a table
            to put your plywood sheet on at about waist level. I find that it is a lot
            easier to layout and cut while the work is at waist level. You can lay your
            perpendiculars out with a framing square. I find I get more nearly accurate
            measurements with a folding rule than I do with a tape measure, but either
            will work. Stitch and glue is amazingly tolerant and you can fix mistakes
            with a stealer or by shaving a plank a little bit. I have found that going
            to great lengths to be neat with epoxy will save a lot of grief when it
            comes time to paint. A scraper with a carbide blade will make short work if
            the ridges along the edge of fg tape. Have fun.



            John



            _____

            From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of tim_cleary_sc
            Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 5:45 PM
            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Beginning of a Vireo in South Carolina





            I've made 7 and 1/2 foot oars according to the oar plan on the Vireo
            blueprint. However, I did substitute reinforced plywood instead of timber
            for the blades. Here's a photo:
            http://groups.
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/377068536/view>
            yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/377068536/view

            Near the handles there are blue exercise ankle weights to act as counter
            weights. The weights bring the balance point to a few inches below the oar
            locks. Without the counter weights, the oars were a bit heavy, but not
            impossible, to use.

            I tried out the oars on my modified Auray Punt and they function well. I was
            concerned that the counter weights would give the oars negative buoyancy,
            i.e. they'd sink in case of the very real possibility that I'd accidentally
            drop them overboard. But a test while I was out rowing proved they'll float
            with about 6 inches of the blade bobbing above the waves.

            So I've got the oars, now I need to get started on the Vireo.

            Tim C.

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com,
            "tim_cleary_sc" <saturntown@...> wrote:
            >
            > John,
            > Thanks for the insights. I was thinking about other projects for the ply
            and I've got some extra furring strips laying around. But I think it would
            be best to stick to the plans, I want this boat to come out right.
            > Tim
            >
            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroup <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> s.com,
            "John and Kathy Trussell" <jtrussell2@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Tim,
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > There are all kinds of approaches to temporary frames/moulds. You can
            use a
            > > panel product such as plywood (or CDX plywood, particle board or even
            OSB-I
            > > don't think I would use insulating foam, sheet rock, or cardboard). Or
            you
            > > can fabricate forms from lumber.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The frames determine the shape of the boat. The frames need to be
            accurately
            > > laid out and the forward face of the forward frames and aft face of the
            aft
            > > frames need to be flush. As the boat is assembled, the sides of the boat
            > > will try to push inward and so the frames need to be fairly stiff to
            resist
            > > this force. If you are using timber, you need to miter the frame members
            and
            > > hold them together with plywood gussets (on the aft side of the forward
            > > frames and on the forward side of the aft frames). You can obtain
            stiffness
            > > with bracing, but it would probably be quicker and easier to go with a
            1x4
            > > for the base part between the gunwales, with a second 1x4 going across
            > > between the chines. The triangular section between the chines and the
            keel
            > > should be stiff enough without additional bracing.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I would point out that a) whenever I have thought I was smarter than Jim
            ,
            > > I've been wrong, b) that the point of stitch and glue is to build a boat
            > > very quickly, and c) that the materials that go into building a hull are
            a
            > > relatively small part of the cost of the boat (considering the cost of
            > > labor, paint, hardware, sandpaper, new tools, etc, etc), so unless you
            are
            > > really pinched for money (and I have been), I would follow Jim's
            directions.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > John



            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2710 - Release Date: 02/25/10
            14:57:00




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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