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Re: Becky Thatcher-canalboat

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  • Nels A
    The short-sighted part in my view is in not offering study plans (Like Dynamite Payson does with many of the Bolger Instant Boat series) or a catalog as Jim
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 9, 2009
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      The short-sighted part in my view is in not offering study plans (Like
      Dynamite Payson does with many of the Bolger Instant Boat series) or a
      catalog as Jim Michalak does with his - or better yet - having an
      internet presence through Duckworks which has been suggested by many
      Bolger group members. All Bolger's wonderful books are out of print as
      well.

      I have the MAIB issues re: BT stored in the garage. There was one about
      the proposal and another about the first trip made in the prototype and
      maybe a 3rd regarding the paddlewheel modification.

      If you write or fax Susanne, be sure to include your phone number! She
      generally responds by phone.

      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Becky%20Tha\
      tcher%20%23669/>

      Nels

      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <ph687079@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "BrianA" bawrytr@ wrote:
      > >
      > > That was a really unfortunate chain of events. Understandable but
      short-sighted on PB+F's part, given that it was good info, a public
      service, and Grant wasn't making any money on it but Bolger might have
      gotten some extra customers out of the deal......
      >
      >
      > Yes unfortunate indeed , I for one am interested in this type of
      boat...
      >
    • BrianA
      The difference I think is that PB+F apparently have a lot more on their plate than small boat plans. Then you add in the factor of PB still working, designing
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 9, 2009
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        The difference I think is that PB+F apparently have a lot more on their plate than small boat plans. Then you add in the factor of PB still working, designing for the US Navy no less, at an age when most people are content to watch their grass grow.

        So it is no surprise that they have let the small boat plan part of the business slip a bit. Let's hope that Susanne can get it back in gear.

        I am sure it has occurred to him, but maybe Garth at Breakaway books might be persuaded to do a Bolger Boat Bible or something of the sort, take a couple of hundred of the best from all the out of print books and some more, and do one big nice book.

        Cheers, Brian

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
        >
        > The short-sighted part in my view is in not offering study plans (Like
        > Dynamite Payson does with many of the Bolger Instant Boat series) or a
        > catalog as Jim Michalak does with his - or better yet - having an
        > internet presence through Duckworks which has been suggested by many
        > Bolger group members. All Bolger's wonderful books are out of print as
        > well.
        >
        > I have the MAIB issues re: BT stored in the garage. There was one about
        > the proposal and another about the first trip made in the prototype and
        > maybe a 3rd regarding the paddlewheel modification.
        >
        > If you write or fax Susanne, be sure to include your phone number! She
        > generally responds by phone.
        >
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Becky%20Tha\
        > tcher%20%23669/>
        >
        > Nels
        >
        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <ph687079@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "BrianA" bawrytr@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > That was a really unfortunate chain of events. Understandable but
        > short-sighted on PB+F's part, given that it was good info, a public
        > service, and Grant wasn't making any money on it but Bolger might have
        > gotten some extra customers out of the deal......
        > >
        > >
        > > Yes unfortunate indeed , I for one am interested in this type of
        > boat...
        > >
        >
      • Nels A
        Brian, I have offered several solutions on the Bolger discussion group as have you, where PCB&F don t even had to be that involved if there is other, more
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 9, 2009
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          Brian,

          I have offered several solutions on the Bolger discussion group as have
          you, where PCB&F don't even had to be that involved if there is other,
          more pressing work to be done.

          1. Some of the "leg work" could done by hiring a person to come in maybe
          one day a week to go out and have plans run off at a blue printers and
          copy the building instructions, put them in the famous blue tubes and
          mail them off, and deposit the checks.

          2. Offer some of the older plans through Duckworks, especially the ones
          that are now being pirated, which would solve that problem. For example,
          Oldshoe, Micro, Long Micro, Martha Jane, Micro Trawler, Fishcat,
          Pirogue, Idaho, Big Dory. In addition, DW would handle the Credit Card
          and Paypal options since PCB&F accept neither payment option.

          3. Routine building questions could be handled by members of the Bolger
          group since most of the designs have already been build and used by
          members there. Susanne already is active there to respond to questions
          or new developments outside of advice given by members. A large
          percentage of the inquiries at the group are, "Where can I get the plans
          or find more information on them?"

          4. I have already mentioned Breakaway Books and new re-issues of Phil's
          books could also be offered through DW who already have a close working
          relationship with Garth.

          5. DW also is great source for hardware, sails, and other materials that
          fit right in with the Bolger designs.

          Hopefully some of this will come to pass in time. In the meantime this
          group and the work of Jim Michalak fills a lot of the gaps in Bolger-
          related smaller designs. Heck, many of Jim's plans are cheaper than
          "study plans" from other designers. Plus his newletters are a great
          source of background information and ongoing improvements to existing
          designs.

          Nels


          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "BrianA" <bawrytr@...> wrote:
          >
          > The difference I think is that PB+F apparently have a lot more on
          their plate than small boat plans. Then you add in the factor of PB
          still working, designing for the US Navy no less, at an age when most
          people are content to watch their grass grow.
          >
          > So it is no surprise that they have let the small boat plan part of
          the business slip a bit. Let's hope that Susanne can get it back in
          gear.
          >
          > I am sure it has occurred to him, but maybe Garth at Breakaway books
          might be persuaded to do a Bolger Boat Bible or something of the sort,
          take a couple of hundred of the best from all the out of print books and
          some more, and do one big nice book.
          >
          > Cheers, Brian
        • Nels A
          hs, Perhaps you could be more explicit as to what you are looking for? The self-propelled paddle-wheel version of BT, or Tom s modified version, which is wider
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 9, 2009
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            hs,

            Perhaps you could be more explicit as to what you are looking for? The self-propelled paddle-wheel version of BT, or Tom's modified version, which is wider and uses motorized propulsion and a removable cabin over the open hull?

            I suggested to Tom, that he re-name his "Tom Sawyer" in order to differentiate:-)

            It may be that Tom's boat is in fact no longer a Becky Thatcher which begs the question - is it actually a new design altogether?

            The BT hull, to quote Phil, "The two ply sheet length hull is a simple scow except for some deadrise worked into the forward bottom for quiet in ripples".

            It is almost identical to Jim's Twister hull, except narrower and raised more in the aft section for less water resistance when pedaled. Twister is already designed for a motor, already has a sail plan option, with rudder and leeboard.

            If constructed as an open hull and a removable top it would be very similar to Tom's design, except wider, but still work as a canal cruiser and easy to haul on a trailer. For muscle power and maneuvering in locks, I would consider one of Chuck's Scullmatix devices.

            http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/twister/index.htm

            http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/scullmatix/index.htm

            Nels




            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "hs" <ph687079@...> wrote:

            > Yes unfortunate indeed , I for one am interested in this type of boat...
            >
          • Peter
            ... After his dealings with Texas Dory Plans & Common Sense I got the impression that PB would never again deal with an independant plans distributor, other
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 9, 2009
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              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
              >
              > Brian,
              >
              > I have offered several solutions on the Bolger discussion group as have
              > you, where PCB&F don't even had to be that involved if there is other,
              > more pressing work to be done.
              >




              After his dealings with Texas Dory Plans & Common Sense I got the impression that PB would never again deal with an independant "plans distributor," other than Payson. I would imagine that SA will probably carry on that policy.

              The answer, in my opinion, is to get more plans available through Payson, assuming he wants to mess with it.

              Of course, Payson is not as young as he used to be (nor are the rest of us) so that may not be a very long-term solution.




              P. Beckford
            • BrianA
              Absolutely Nels, I remember the thread very well. Like you I can t think of any reason why it doesn t make a lot of sense to work through DW, unless SA wants
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 10, 2009
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                Absolutely Nels, I remember the thread very well. Like you I can't think of any reason why it doesn't make a lot of sense to work through DW, unless SA wants to get her own site up and rolling, but that could be almost a full time job in itself. I guess we will see what SA has decided to do when she does it. But it's sure that PB+F have let their small boats business wither a bit, and I was just speculating as to the reason. Some people are good at multitasking and/or good at organizing their time, and some aren't. I'm not and thought that might be the reason.

                Cheers, Brian

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
                >
                > Brian,
                >
                > I have offered several solutions on the Bolger discussion group as have
                > you, where PCB&F don't even had to be that involved if there is other,
                > more pressing work to be done.
                >
                > 1. Some of the "leg work" could done by hiring a person to come in maybe
                > one day a week to go out and have plans run off at a blue printers and
                > copy the building instructions, put them in the famous blue tubes and
                > mail them off, and deposit the checks.
                >
                > 2. Offer some of the older plans through Duckworks, especially the ones
                > that are now being pirated, which would solve that problem. For example,
                > Oldshoe, Micro, Long Micro, Martha Jane, Micro Trawler, Fishcat,
                > Pirogue, Idaho, Big Dory. In addition, DW would handle the Credit Card
                > and Paypal options since PCB&F accept neither payment option.
                >
                > 3. Routine building questions could be handled by members of the Bolger
                > group since most of the designs have already been build and used by
                > members there. Susanne already is active there to respond to questions
                > or new developments outside of advice given by members. A large
                > percentage of the inquiries at the group are, "Where can I get the plans
                > or find more information on them?"
                >
                > 4. I have already mentioned Breakaway Books and new re-issues of Phil's
                > books could also be offered through DW who already have a close working
                > relationship with Garth.
                >
                > 5. DW also is great source for hardware, sails, and other materials that
                > fit right in with the Bolger designs.
                >
                > Hopefully some of this will come to pass in time. In the meantime this
                > group and the work of Jim Michalak fills a lot of the gaps in Bolger-
                > related smaller designs. Heck, many of Jim's plans are cheaper than
                > "study plans" from other designers. Plus his newletters are a great
                > source of background information and ongoing improvements to existing
                > designs.
                >
                > Nels
                >
                >
                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "BrianA" <bawrytr@> wrote:
                > >
                > > The difference I think is that PB+F apparently have a lot more on
                > their plate than small boat plans. Then you add in the factor of PB
                > still working, designing for the US Navy no less, at an age when most
                > people are content to watch their grass grow.
                > >
                > > So it is no surprise that they have let the small boat plan part of
                > the business slip a bit. Let's hope that Susanne can get it back in
                > gear.
                > >
                > > I am sure it has occurred to him, but maybe Garth at Breakaway books
                > might be persuaded to do a Bolger Boat Bible or something of the sort,
                > take a couple of hundred of the best from all the out of print books and
                > some more, and do one big nice book.
                > >
                > > Cheers, Brian
                >
              • BrianA
                Peter The deal with DW is as I understand it, different than with other distributors, in that Chuck does the marketing, takes the money, and then the designer
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 10, 2009
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                  Peter

                  The deal with DW is as I understand it, different than with other distributors, in that Chuck does the marketing, takes the money, and then the designer ships off the plans themselves and they settle up at the end of the month or whatever. So there can be no problems or hassles in terms of how many plans were sold or or rights or whatever, as long as PB+F kept an accurate account of how many and which plans went out the door, because DW never touches the pieces of paper. And if for whatever reason it isn't working, Chuck can just drop the pages of his site, they can fill the outstanding orders, and in a month the deal can be wrapped up.

                  Cheers, Brian



                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <boatman1959@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Brian,
                  > >
                  > > I have offered several solutions on the Bolger discussion group as have
                  > > you, where PCB&F don't even had to be that involved if there is other,
                  > > more pressing work to be done.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > After his dealings with Texas Dory Plans & Common Sense I got the impression that PB would never again deal with an independant "plans distributor," other than Payson. I would imagine that SA will probably carry on that policy.
                  >
                  > The answer, in my opinion, is to get more plans available through Payson, assuming he wants to mess with it.
                  >
                  > Of course, Payson is not as young as he used to be (nor are the rest of us) so that may not be a very long-term solution.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > P. Beckford
                  >
                • Peter
                  I am well aware of how the DW arrangement works. If PBF is going to be that involved in the process, they (she?) is not going to see any advantage to it. Saves
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 10, 2009
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                    I am well aware of how the DW arrangement works.

                    If PBF is going to be that involved in the process, they
                    (she?) is not going to see any advantage to it.
                    Saves her little time and at what cost.

                    And don't underestimate just how "unhappy" PB was
                    with his (2) distributor arrangments. That legacy
                    will poision any potential deal.

                    Payson has the trust, therefore he has the inside
                    track.

                    Absolutley nothing against DW- that's just the way
                    it is.

                    I would be very surprised if anyone other than Payson
                    was allowed to distribute those plans.



                    P. Beckford






                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "BrianA" <bawrytr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Peter
                    >
                    > The deal with DW is as I understand it, different than with other distributors, in that Chuck does the marketing, takes the money, and then the designer ships off the plans themselves and they settle up at the end of the month or whatever. So there can be no problems or hassles in terms of how many plans were sold or or rights or whatever, as long as PB+F kept an accurate account of how many and which plans went out the door, because DW never touches the pieces of paper. And if for whatever reason it isn't working, Chuck can just drop the pages of his site, they can fill the outstanding orders, and in a month the deal can be wrapped up.
                    >
                    > Cheers, Brian
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <boatman1959@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Brian,
                    > > >
                    > > > I have offered several solutions on the Bolger discussion group as have
                    > > > you, where PCB&F don't even had to be that involved if there is other,
                    > > > more pressing work to be done.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > After his dealings with Texas Dory Plans & Common Sense I got the impression that PB would never again deal with an independant "plans distributor," other than Payson. I would imagine that SA will probably carry on that policy.
                    > >
                    > > The answer, in my opinion, is to get more plans available through Payson, assuming he wants to mess with it.
                    > >
                    > > Of course, Payson is not as young as he used to be (nor are the rest of us) so that may not be a very long-term solution.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > P. Beckford
                    > >
                    >
                  • Tom
                    You can find Ms. Altenburger s email by searching the messages on the Bolger Yahoo group for Susanne .
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 13, 2009
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                      You can find Ms. Altenburger's email by searching the messages on the Bolger Yahoo group for "Susanne".

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "endixon2000" <edalmatiandixon@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Would like to obtain plans. Where are they availabe?
                      >
                    • ladycathyofwales
                      ... Yes. It s totally random whether it works or not. At times it has failed to find any articles when searches are run on words that I am *certain* I have
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 13, 2009
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                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomandrews36@...> wrote:
                        >...do others find the message-search function in Yahoo groups
                        >to be dysfunctional?

                        Yes. It's totally random whether it works or not. At times it has failed to find any articles when searches are run on words that I am *certain* I have used in past posts.

                        Cathy
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