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Re: Observations re: Underlayment plywood from China

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  • apraphett777
    I am new here I have used luan underlayment in the past usally on a small peero / canoe type boat. Most places I paddle are small brackish creeks if I stand up
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 1, 2009
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      I am new here I have used luan underlayment in the past usally on a small peero / canoe type boat. Most places I paddle are small brackish creeks if I stand up I can usally walk out of where I am.(Just much nicer to paddle) but I do cross a 80'-120' deep channel now and then just like the chicken and the possum just so I can get to the other side. Recently I put some shelves in a new worktruck before I did I used some luan underlayment from our local lowes home center. to back the shelves with ,the scraps I threw outside where I keep / build my boats it has only been in the weather for about 6 weeks it has already delaminated otoh I have had some BC 1/4" pine out there for the same amount of time with no delamination just my 2 pence Y'all take care



      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "recree8" <arvent@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think there is a lot of interest on the various types of underlayment plywoods that are coming from "Offshore" and carried at most big box suppliers. Sureply was one mentioned and there are other brands as well - Ultraply is another.
      >
      > I recently purchased some 1/4" stuff that was actually called "merranti" and has no nailing grids on it. Looks really nice. It is 3-ply with a darker, thicker middle core and two thinner ones on the exterior which are beautifully smooth and knot free with no visible voids anywhere.
      >
      > I cut some narrow strips off a sheet and did the "dishwasher test" - leaving them in the dishwasher for several long cycle wash loads. Then left them to dry out. In some spots I could peel off the outer layer just using my thumb nail, and there appeared to be no sign of glue at these locations.
      >
      > What appears to have happened is it had some glue-starved spots in it. Perhaps the inner core, being more absorbent soaked up most of the glue during the manufacturing process and left the joint starved of glue.
      >
      > Not saying it would not work if one is encapsulating the wood with epoxy and glassing the exterior,thus keeping moisture out, but I also am a bit leery that if you have uneven heat applied to the hull, say when storing the hull outside upside down under a hot sun and even covered with a tarp with cooler moist air underneath, you might get some ply separation inside the plywood.
      >
      > Is it worth the cost saving with a boat hull if using this plywood at $20 a sheet compared to real merranti at $60 a sheet? On a 5 sheet boat it means a saving of $200.When you consider the total cost of the boat, including the epoxy, cloth, paint, varnish, spars, and framing, and sail I would suggest it is a risk unless you are either practicing with your first boat or only intending it to last maybe 5 years of occasional use compared to 10+ years of hard use.
      >
      > The difference in my view is the lack of quality control from the "offshore" stuff - if lucky you may have no problems, but the quality control of USA, European and Canadian made stuff, is much more consistent.
      >
      > From my understanding underpayment is intended to provide a smooth surface to lay carpet over and it is nailed down every foot or so or even less, so s bit of separation of ply's under the carpet may never be noticed. If it happens on your hull bottom it is a very large source of concern and potential head scratching on what to do to correct the separation from extending over time. Not that easy to repair either.
      >
      > Any other thoughts on this? Have some people done testing with their particular brand and found it to be free from separations? If so let us know.
      >
      > Nels
      >
    • Chris Crandall
      My $0.02--I have had grave trouble getting top quality plywood for boating projects. For a largish displacement powerboat I am building, getting in half-inch
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 2, 2009
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        My $0.02--I have had grave trouble getting top quality plywood for
        boating projects. For a largish displacement powerboat I am building,
        getting in half-inch MDO served perfectly well for the hull and bottom.

        But, for the cabinsides, I wanted some quality plywood that is lighter
        weight.

        I can order up plywood sheets of any type or quality, but the delivery
        fees here in Lawrence, KS, make them laughably expensive. A couple of
        sheets of quarter-inch plywood end up costing in the neighborhood of
        $200 a sheet.

        It turns out that I can build the cabin sides out of first quality
        Honduran mahogany for less than meranti (Phillipine "mahogany") plywood.
        There is simply no way that I can find to make shipping costs affordable.

        -Chris
      • ted_major
        Last summer when I built my QT skiff, the local Lowe s had ultraply for $20 a sheet, and that s what I used:
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 2, 2009
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          Last summer when I built my QT skiff, the local Lowe's had ultraply for $20 a sheet, and that's what I used:
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/ted_major/2729172875/in/set-72157606527304335/

          Tidmarsh

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "recree8" <arvent@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sounds like a great choice David. Thanks for sharing.
          >
          > Ultraply is made in USA so I stand corrected. You got for $20 a sheet?
          >
          > http://www.morelandcompany.com/ultraply.htm
          >
          > Nels
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, David Cassidy <d.cassidy@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I built an AF3 using UltraPly (launched last fall after 2 summers of
          > > building), and there is at least one other person on this list who
          > > built the same or a similar-sized boat with it several years ago. I
          > > found it to be really nice to work with- never found a void. I did
          > > the "dishwasher test" with no change to the stock.
          > >
          > > I also left an approx. 3 x 3-foot piece out in a Northern New England
          > > winter -- that's about 5 months of snow, sleet and freezing temps. The
          > > piece of ply was propped up a few feet away from the exhaust outlet
          > > from our propane-powered boiler, which means it was blasted on one
          > > side with hot, moist air several times each day. The piece of ply
          > > survived this just fine - no delamination or checking.
          > >
          > > I think UltraPly is made in the U.S., which may mean it is
          > > manufactured under stricter controls than imported materials.
          > >
          > > I took the boat on a 4-day "cruise" earlier this summer and was
          > > subjected to some pretty rough poundings. I road out some pretty
          > > violent thunderstorms while at anchor, sailed up onto the beach
          > > several times and had a three hour downwind sleigh ride surfing down 3
          > > - 4 foot waves (My gps clocked consistent speeds of 6.5 mph, with the
          > > highest speed zI saw at 7.1 mph -- even if you figure the incoming
          > > tide was helping me along over the ground, that's pretty good speed
          > > for a 14 foot waterline and a homemade/sewn PolyTarp balanced lug
          > > sail). During all of this, the boat felt solid as a rock, and I never
          > > heard a crack or creak.
          > >
          > > IMO, saving $200 on a project this size is worth it. That paid for ALL
          > > of my epoxy supplies. I see no reason why, with proper protection in
          > > the winter and normal spring maintenance required of any wooden boat,
          > > it should last as long as a boat made out of $70/sheet marine ply.
          > >
          > > You can check out a rather large Web site about the building of my
          > > boat (including pictures and more thoughts on using UltraPly) at:
          > http://www.davidcmaguire.com/AF3
          > >
          > > David C.
          > >
          > >
          > > On Aug 31, 2009, at 1:20 PM, recree8 wrote:
          > >
          > > > I think there is a lot of interest on the various types of
          > > > underlayment plywoods that are coming from "Offshore" and carried at
          > > > most big box suppliers. Sureply was one mentioned and there are
          > > > other brands as well - Ultraply is another.
          > > >
          > > > I recently purchased some 1/4" stuff that was actually called
          > > > "merranti" and has no nailing grids on it. Looks really nice. It is
          > > > 3-ply with a darker, thicker middle core and two thinner ones on the
          > > > exterior which are beautifully smooth and knot free with no visible
          > > > voids anywhere.
          > > >
          > > > I cut some narrow strips off a sheet and did the "dishwasher test" -
          > > > leaving them in the dishwasher for several long cycle wash loads.
          > > > Then left them to dry out. In some spots I could peel off the outer
          > > > layer just using my thumb nail, and there appeared to be no sign of
          > > > glue at these locations.
          > > >
          > > > What appears to have happened is it had some glue-starved spots in
          > > > it. Perhaps the inner core, being more absorbent soaked up most of
          > > > the glue during the manufacturing process and left the joint starved
          > > > of glue.
          > > >
          > > > Not saying it would not work if one is encapsulating the wood with
          > > > epoxy and glassing the exterior,thus keeping moisture out, but I
          > > > also am a bit leery that if you have uneven heat applied to the
          > > > hull, say when storing the hull outside upside down under a hot sun
          > > > and even covered with a tarp with cooler moist air underneath, you
          > > > might get some ply separation inside the plywood.
          > > >
          > > > Is it worth the cost saving with a boat hull if using this plywood
          > > > at $20 a sheet compared to real merranti at $60 a sheet? On a 5
          > > > sheet boat it means a saving of $200.When you consider the total
          > > > cost of the boat, including the epoxy, cloth, paint, varnish, spars,
          > > > and framing, and sail I would suggest it is a risk unless you are
          > > > either practicing with your first boat or only intending it to last
          > > > maybe 5 years of occasional use compared to 10+ years of hard use.
          > > >
          > > > The difference in my view is the lack of quality control from the
          > > > "offshore" stuff - if lucky you may have no problems, but the
          > > > quality control of USA, European and Canadian made stuff, is much
          > > > more consistent.
          > > >
          > > > From my understanding underpayment is intended to provide a smooth
          > > > surface to lay carpet over and it is nailed down every foot or so or
          > > > even less, so s bit of separation of ply's under the carpet may
          > > > never be noticed. If it happens on your hull bottom it is a very
          > > > large source of concern and potential head scratching on what to do
          > > > to correct the separation from extending over time. Not that easy to
          > > > repair either.
          > > >
          > > > Any other thoughts on this? Have some people done testing with their
          > > > particular brand and found it to be free from separations? If so let
          > > > us know.
          > > >
          > > > Nels
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • tomhenry2
          Ted, From what I read online about the Ultraply - it seems that the wood grain of all of the plys runs in the same direction, meaning no plys running across
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 2, 2009
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            Ted,

            From what I read online about the Ultraply - it seems that the wood grain of all of the plys runs in the same direction, meaning no plys running across the others.

            From your experience actually using it in building - can you confirm that?

            Your pics look like you actually had some UltraplyXL -- what thicknesses did you use and was that all 5-ply?

            Thanks a lot,
            TomH


            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "ted_major" <tidmarsh.major@...> wrote:
            >
            > Last summer when I built my QT skiff, the local Lowe's had ultraply for $20 a sheet, and that's what I used:
            > http://www.flickr.com/photos/ted_major/2729172875/in/set-72157606527304335/
            >
            > Tidmarsh
            >
            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "recree8" <arvent@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Sounds like a great choice David. Thanks for sharing.
            > >
            > > Ultraply is made in USA so I stand corrected. You got for $20 a sheet?
            > >
            > > http://www.morelandcompany.com/ultraply.htm
            > >
            > > Nels
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, David Cassidy <d.cassidy@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I built an AF3 using UltraPly (launched last fall after 2 summers of
            > > > building), and there is at least one other person on this list who
            > > > built the same or a similar-sized boat with it several years ago. I
            > > > found it to be really nice to work with- never found a void. I did
            > > > the "dishwasher test" with no change to the stock.
            > > >
            > > > I also left an approx. 3 x 3-foot piece out in a Northern New England
            > > > winter -- that's about 5 months of snow, sleet and freezing temps. The
            > > > piece of ply was propped up a few feet away from the exhaust outlet
            > > > from our propane-powered boiler, which means it was blasted on one
            > > > side with hot, moist air several times each day. The piece of ply
            > > > survived this just fine - no delamination or checking.
            > > >
            > > > I think UltraPly is made in the U.S., which may mean it is
            > > > manufactured under stricter controls than imported materials.
            > > >
            > > > I took the boat on a 4-day "cruise" earlier this summer and was
            > > > subjected to some pretty rough poundings. I road out some pretty
            > > > violent thunderstorms while at anchor, sailed up onto the beach
            > > > several times and had a three hour downwind sleigh ride surfing down 3
            > > > - 4 foot waves (My gps clocked consistent speeds of 6.5 mph, with the
            > > > highest speed zI saw at 7.1 mph -- even if you figure the incoming
            > > > tide was helping me along over the ground, that's pretty good speed
            > > > for a 14 foot waterline and a homemade/sewn PolyTarp balanced lug
            > > > sail). During all of this, the boat felt solid as a rock, and I never
            > > > heard a crack or creak.
            > > >
            > > > IMO, saving $200 on a project this size is worth it. That paid for ALL
            > > > of my epoxy supplies. I see no reason why, with proper protection in
            > > > the winter and normal spring maintenance required of any wooden boat,
            > > > it should last as long as a boat made out of $70/sheet marine ply.
            > > >
            > > > You can check out a rather large Web site about the building of my
            > > > boat (including pictures and more thoughts on using UltraPly) at:
            > > http://www.davidcmaguire.com/AF3
            > > >
            > > > David C.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Aug 31, 2009, at 1:20 PM, recree8 wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > I think there is a lot of interest on the various types of
            > > > > underlayment plywoods that are coming from "Offshore" and carried at
            > > > > most big box suppliers. Sureply was one mentioned and there are
            > > > > other brands as well - Ultraply is another.
            > > > >
            > > > > I recently purchased some 1/4" stuff that was actually called
            > > > > "merranti" and has no nailing grids on it. Looks really nice. It is
            > > > > 3-ply with a darker, thicker middle core and two thinner ones on the
            > > > > exterior which are beautifully smooth and knot free with no visible
            > > > > voids anywhere.
            > > > >
            > > > > I cut some narrow strips off a sheet and did the "dishwasher test" -
            > > > > leaving them in the dishwasher for several long cycle wash loads.
            > > > > Then left them to dry out. In some spots I could peel off the outer
            > > > > layer just using my thumb nail, and there appeared to be no sign of
            > > > > glue at these locations.
            > > > >
            > > > > What appears to have happened is it had some glue-starved spots in
            > > > > it. Perhaps the inner core, being more absorbent soaked up most of
            > > > > the glue during the manufacturing process and left the joint starved
            > > > > of glue.
            > > > >
            > > > > Not saying it would not work if one is encapsulating the wood with
            > > > > epoxy and glassing the exterior,thus keeping moisture out, but I
            > > > > also am a bit leery that if you have uneven heat applied to the
            > > > > hull, say when storing the hull outside upside down under a hot sun
            > > > > and even covered with a tarp with cooler moist air underneath, you
            > > > > might get some ply separation inside the plywood.
            > > > >
            > > > > Is it worth the cost saving with a boat hull if using this plywood
            > > > > at $20 a sheet compared to real merranti at $60 a sheet? On a 5
            > > > > sheet boat it means a saving of $200.When you consider the total
            > > > > cost of the boat, including the epoxy, cloth, paint, varnish, spars,
            > > > > and framing, and sail I would suggest it is a risk unless you are
            > > > > either practicing with your first boat or only intending it to last
            > > > > maybe 5 years of occasional use compared to 10+ years of hard use.
            > > > >
            > > > > The difference in my view is the lack of quality control from the
            > > > > "offshore" stuff - if lucky you may have no problems, but the
            > > > > quality control of USA, European and Canadian made stuff, is much
            > > > > more consistent.
            > > > >
            > > > > From my understanding underpayment is intended to provide a smooth
            > > > > surface to lay carpet over and it is nailed down every foot or so or
            > > > > even less, so s bit of separation of ply's under the carpet may
            > > > > never be noticed. If it happens on your hull bottom it is a very
            > > > > large source of concern and potential head scratching on what to do
            > > > > to correct the separation from extending over time. Not that easy to
            > > > > repair either.
            > > > >
            > > > > Any other thoughts on this? Have some people done testing with their
            > > > > particular brand and found it to be free from separations? If so let
            > > > > us know.
            > > > >
            > > > > Nels
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • aub77
            I once ordered meranti from Jacques Merten s site at http://plywood.boatbuildercentral.com/ and the shipping was not too bad. It depends on how many sheets
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 3, 2009
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              I once ordered meranti from Jacques Merten's site at http://plywood.boatbuildercentral.com/ and the shipping was not too bad. It depends on how many sheets you need as to whether it is worth it. The meranti was some wonderful stuff to work with and was nearly flawless. I think I ordered about 6 sheets and the shipping was about 80-100 dollars (a few years back). He charges a flat rate for orders under 13 sheets and quotes a rate for more sheets than that. I don't know what the current rates are but you can act like you are going to order and then cancel out before the final confirmation. Combining orders with someone makes the shipping costs really good (which is what I did).

              --Wayne

              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
              >
              > My $0.02--I have had grave trouble getting top quality plywood for
              > boating projects. For a largish displacement powerboat I am building,
              > getting in half-inch MDO served perfectly well for the hull and bottom.
              >
              > But, for the cabinsides, I wanted some quality plywood that is lighter
              > weight.
              >
              > I can order up plywood sheets of any type or quality, but the delivery
              > fees here in Lawrence, KS, make them laughably expensive. A couple of
              > sheets of quarter-inch plywood end up costing in the neighborhood of
              > $200 a sheet.
              >
              > It turns out that I can build the cabin sides out of first quality
              > Honduran mahogany for less than meranti (Phillipine "mahogany") plywood.
              > There is simply no way that I can find to make shipping costs affordable.
              >
              > -Chris
              >
            • Carl Haddick
              There is ultraply info at http://www.morelandcompany.com/ultraply.htm (I have no connection with that company). The good news from that site is high solid
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 3, 2009
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                There is ultraply info at http://www.morelandcompany.com/ultraply.htm (I
                have no connection with that company).

                The good news from that site is 'high solid marine grade phenolic glue
                line - will not delaminate.'

                There are also claims for things like 'clear face with no defects.'

                The bad news, as I see it, is '3 ply uni-directional core,' which I
                think means the grain all lays the same way. Another claim, seeming to
                reinforce that to me, 'score and snaps with a knife for easy
                installation.'

                Of course, a plank will also have all its grain running the same way,
                too.

                As a rank beginner any opinion I have is easily suspect! :-)

                Carl

                On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 12:17:11PM -0000, aub77 wrote:
                > I once ordered meranti from Jacques Merten's site at http://plywood.boatbuildercentral.com/ and the shipping was not too bad. It depends on how many sheets you need as to whether it is worth it. The meranti was some wonderful stuff to work with and was nearly flawless. I think I ordered about 6 sheets and the shipping was about 80-100 dollars (a few years back). He charges a flat rate for orders under 13 sheets and quotes a rate for more sheets than that. I don't know what the current rates are but you can act like you are going to order and then cancel out before the final confirmation. Combining orders with someone makes the shipping costs really good (which is what I did).
                >
                > --Wayne
                >
                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > My $0.02--I have had grave trouble getting top quality plywood for
                > > boating projects. For a largish displacement powerboat I am building,
                > > getting in half-inch MDO served perfectly well for the hull and bottom.
              • David Cassidy
                Though the demo video shows a floor installer scoring and snapping the sheet, I tried several times and couldn t do it unless the scoring was so deep that ANY
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 3, 2009
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                  Though the demo video shows a floor installer scoring and snapping the
                  sheet, I tried several times and couldn't do it unless the scoring was
                  so deep that ANY sheet product would snap with such a line cut into it.

                  DC

                  On Sep 3, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Carl Haddick wrote:

                  > There is ultraply info at http://www.morelandcompany.com/
                  > ultraply.htm (I
                  > have no connection with that company).
                  >
                  > The good news from that site is 'high solid marine grade phenolic glue
                  > line - will not delaminate.'
                  >
                  > There are also claims for things like 'clear face with no defects.'
                  >
                  > The bad news, as I see it, is '3 ply uni-directional core,' which I
                  > think means the grain all lays the same way. Another claim, seeming
                  > to
                  > reinforce that to me, 'score and snaps with a knife for easy
                  > installation.'
                  >
                  > Of course, a plank will also have all its grain running the same way,
                  > too.
                  >
                  > As a rank beginner any opinion I have is easily suspect! :-)
                  >
                  > Carl
                  >
                  > On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 12:17:11PM -0000, aub77 wrote:
                  >> I once ordered meranti from Jacques Merten's site at http://plywood.boatbuildercentral.com/
                  >> and the shipping was not too bad. It depends on how many sheets
                  >> you need as to whether it is worth it. The meranti was some
                  >> wonderful stuff to work with and was nearly flawless. I think I
                  >> ordered about 6 sheets and the shipping was about 80-100 dollars (a
                  >> few years back). He charges a flat rate for orders under 13 sheets
                  >> and quotes a rate for more sheets than that. I don't know what the
                  >> current rates are but you can act like you are going to order and
                  >> then cancel out before the final confirmation. Combining orders
                  >> with someone makes the shipping costs really good (which is what I
                  >> did).
                  >>
                  >> --Wayne
                  >>
                  >> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> My $0.02--I have had grave trouble getting top quality plywood for
                  >>> boating projects. For a largish displacement powerboat I am
                  >>> building,
                  >>> getting in half-inch MDO served perfectly well for the hull and
                  >>> bottom.
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Douglas Pollard
                  ... One of the main reason plywood has the ability to cover whols sides decks of a boat is that it has cross grain laminates. To be used in large sheets it
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 3, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    David Cassidy wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Though the demo video shows a floor installer scoring and snapping the
                    > sheet, I tried several times and couldn't do it unless the scoring was
                    > so deep that ANY sheet product would snap with such a line cut into it.
                    >
                    > DC
                    >
                    > On Sep 3, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Carl Haddick wrote:
                    >
                    > > There is ultraply info at http://www.morelandcompany.com/
                    > <http://www.morelandcompany.com/>
                    > > ultraply.htm (I
                    > > have no connection with that company).
                    > >
                    > > The good news from that site is 'high solid marine grade phenolic glue
                    > > line - will not delaminate.'
                    > >
                    > > There are also claims for things like 'clear face with no defects.'
                    > >
                    > > The bad news, as I see it, is '3 ply uni-directional core,' which I
                    > > think means the grain all lays the same way. Another claim, seeming
                    > > to
                    > > reinforce that to me, 'score and snaps with a knife for easy
                    > > installation.'
                    > >
                    > > Of course, a plank will also have all its grain running the same way,
                    > > too.
                    > >
                    > > As a rank beginner any opinion I have is easily suspect! :-)
                    > >
                    > > Carl
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 12:17:11PM -0000, aub77 wrote:
                    > >> I once ordered meranti from Jacques Merten's site at
                    > http://plywood.boatbuildercentral.com/
                    > <http://plywood.boatbuildercentral.com/>
                    > >> and the shipping was not too bad. It depends on how many sheets
                    > >> you need as to whether it is worth it. The meranti was some
                    > >> wonderful stuff to work with and was nearly flawless. I think I
                    > >> ordered about 6 sheets and the shipping was about 80-100 dollars (a
                    > >> few years back). He charges a flat rate for orders under 13 sheets
                    > >> and quotes a rate for more sheets than that. I don't know what the
                    > >> current rates are but you can act like you are going to order and
                    > >> then cancel out before the final confirmation. Combining orders
                    > >> with someone makes the shipping costs really good (which is what I
                    > >> did).
                    > >>
                    > >> --Wayne
                    > >>
                    > >> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
                    > >>>
                    > >>> My $0.02--I have had grave trouble getting top quality plywood for
                    > >>> boating projects. For a largish displacement powerboat I am
                    > >>> building,
                    > >>> getting in half-inch MDO served perfectly well for the hull and
                    > >>> bottom.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    One of the main reason plywood has the ability to cover whols sides
                    decks of a boat is that it has cross grain laminates. To be used in
                    large sheets it will need to have a sheet laid one way with a second
                    sheet laid the other. If you don't want to do that, then maybe a good
                    use for this sub flooring might be for lapstrake construction with the
                    grain running lengthwise the boat. A person might be better off to just
                    go buy some boards and plank the boat with it. Looks like to me with the
                    grain all running in one direction there is no advantage in using
                    plywood. The boat will require the same number of frames and stringers
                    as a carvel or lap streak boat. And will wind up being weaker and more
                    flexible than a boat with cross grained plywood one.

                    Doug
                  • ted_major
                    Hi Tom-- I used 5.2mm, and it had 5 orthogonal plies. Tidmarsh
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 3, 2009
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                      Hi Tom--

                      I used 5.2mm, and it had 5 orthogonal plies.

                      Tidmarsh
                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "tomhenry2" <tomhenry2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ted,
                      >
                      > From what I read online about the Ultraply - it seems that the wood grain of all of the plys runs in the same direction, meaning no plys running across the others.
                      >
                      > From your experience actually using it in building - can you confirm that?
                      >
                      > Your pics look like you actually had some UltraplyXL -- what thicknesses did you use and was that all 5-ply?
                      >
                      > Thanks a lot,
                      > TomH
                      >
                      >
                    • Chris Crandall
                      Hi . . . I checked out Mertens website for meranti. I dummy ordered four sheets of Meranti Marine BS6566 (6mm, 1/4 ), for $148.00, and the shipping added
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 4, 2009
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                        Hi . . .

                        I checked out Mertens' website for meranti. I "dummy ordered" four
                        sheets of Meranti Marine BS6566 (6mm, 1/4"), for $148.00, and the
                        shipping added $199.00. so $37 for a sheet, plus $50 per sheet for
                        shipping. That's just not affordable.

                        -Chris
                      • adventures_in_astrophotography
                        Hi Chris, ... It s possible that the shipping price wouldn t change for a larger order, up to a point. There s usually a certain amount charged for crating
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 7, 2009
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                          Hi Chris,

                          > I checked out Mertens' website for meranti. I "dummy ordered" four
                          > sheets of Meranti Marine BS6566 (6mm, 1/4"), for $148.00, and the
                          > shipping added $199.00. so $37 for a sheet, plus $50 per sheet for
                          > shipping. That's just not affordable.

                          It's possible that the shipping price wouldn't change for a larger order, up to a point. There's usually a certain amount charged for crating and a minimum that the shipper requires to transport even a couple of sheets. That's where pooling an order with someone else can be useful. I doubt it would be $50/sheet for shipping if you order 10 or 20 sheets, for instance.

                          Jon Kolb
                          www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
                        • ted_major
                          Tom-- Here s a photo of a leftover scrap: 3 thick alternating plies in the middle with 2 VERY thin face plies. Seems like regular plywood, and I don t know
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 7, 2009
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                            Tom--

                            Here's a photo of a leftover scrap: 3 thick alternating plies in the middle with 2 VERY thin face plies. Seems like regular plywood, and I don't know that it would score and snap any easier than any other 5mm plywood. Of course, I bought this over a year ago, so the product may have changed since then; YMMV.
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/ted_major/3897590127

                            Chris--thanks for the compliment. Here's the seat I built: it's a box with 1x6 sides and 5.2mm ply top and bottom, with a round screw-in hatch set into the top. I sized it to fit a floating boat cushion, but I sat too high to clear my legs on the return stroke with the cushion, so I use it unpadded. One of these days I'll get around to picking up a closed-cell foam camping matress to cut a pad from.
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/ted_major/3898373980

                            (It's amazing how dirty the inside of a boat gets just sitting upside down on a covered boat dock!)

                            Tidmarsh

                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "ted_major" <tidmarsh.major@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Tom--
                            >
                            > I used 5.2mm, and it had 5 orthogonal plies.
                            >
                            > Tidmarsh
                            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "tomhenry2" <tomhenry2@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Ted,
                            > >
                            > > From what I read online about the Ultraply - it seems that the wood grain of all of the plys runs in the same direction, meaning no plys running across the others.
                            > >
                            > > From your experience actually using it in building - can you confirm that?
                            > >
                            > > Your pics look like you actually had some UltraplyXL -- what thicknesses did you use and was that all 5-ply?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks a lot,
                            > > TomH
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • scsbmsjoe
                            If you are out of range of major plywook suppliers, I suggest you check with your local independent lumberyard. They may have periodic shipments from suppliers
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 7, 2009
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                              If you are out of range of major plywook suppliers, I suggest you check with your local independent lumberyard. They may have periodic shipments from suppliers and by combining with their other orders your shipping costs could be reduced. It's worth a try. Let us know if it works. I ordered some marine fir from a local yard and the yard crew treated it very carefully, like it was something precious. Sorry, I can't recall the cost.

                              Joe T

                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Chris,
                              >
                              > > I checked out Mertens' website for meranti. I "dummy ordered" four
                              > > sheets of Meranti Marine BS6566 (6mm, 1/4"), for $148.00, and the
                              > > shipping added $199.00. so $37 for a sheet, plus $50 per sheet for
                              > > shipping. That's just not affordable.
                              >
                              > It's possible that the shipping price wouldn't change for a larger order, up to a point. There's usually a certain amount charged for crating and a minimum that the shipper requires to transport even a couple of sheets. That's where pooling an order with someone else can be useful. I doubt it would be $50/sheet for shipping if you order 10 or 20 sheets, for instance.
                              >
                              > Jon Kolb
                              > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
                              >
                            • Chris Crandall
                              ... It s true. And I m not saying that the companies are not being sensible. But I don t need 10-20 sheets, I need 3-4. Buying 10-20 sheets would make my
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 8, 2009
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                                >> shipping added $199.00. so $37 for a sheet, plus $50 per sheet for
                                >> shipping. That's just not affordable.


                                > It's possible that the shipping price wouldn't change for a larger
                                > order, up to a point. There's usually a certain amount charged for
                                > crating and a minimum that the shipper requires to transport even a
                                > couple of sheets. That's where pooling an order with someone else can
                                > be useful. I doubt it would be $50/sheet for shipping if you order
                                > 10 or 20 sheets, for instance.
                                > Jon Kolb

                                It's true. And I'm not saying that the companies are not being sensible.
                                But I don't need 10-20 sheets, I need 3-4. Buying 10-20 sheets would
                                make my purchase *really* expensive. It's just not in my budget to buy
                                for the future now.


                                > "scsbmsjoe" scsbmsjoe@... scsbmsjoe Date: Mon Sep 7, 2009 11:50
                                > If you are out of range of major plywook suppliers, I suggest you
                                > check with your local independent lumberyard. They may have periodic
                                > shipments from suppliers and by combining with their other orders
                                > your shipping costs could be reduced. It's worth a try. Let us know
                                > if it works.

                                I have called every major and minor lumberyard in the region, including
                                those that specialize in serving hobbyists or that sell a wide range of
                                hard-to-get woods (including the delightful Paxton Woodsource). Nothing,
                                alas.

                                I think I'm going to end with solid Honduran mahogany, which will be
                                significantly cheaper.

                                -Chris
                              • recree8
                                Jon, Now that you mention it - the order I piggy backed onto a larger order - had a 10 sheet minimum to get free shipping. The design I was ordering for called
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 8, 2009
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                                  Jon,

                                  Now that you mention it - the order I piggy backed onto a larger order -
                                  had a 10 sheet minimum to get free shipping.

                                  The design I was ordering for called for 10 sheets so it fit right in
                                  for me and I forgot this was a pre-condition of the order!

                                  Nels

                                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
                                  <jon@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Chris,

                                  > It's possible that the shipping price wouldn't change for a larger
                                  order, up to a point. There's usually a certain amount charged for
                                  crating and a minimum that the shipper requires to transport even a
                                  couple of sheets. That's where pooling an order with someone else can be
                                  useful. I doubt it would be $50/sheet for shipping if you order 10 or
                                  20 sheets, for instance.
                                  >
                                  > Jon Kolb
                                  > www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
                                  >
                                • aub77
                                  By the way, there is a database of plywood suppliers that I created several years ago here in this group s Yahoo web site. Just click on Database in the
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 9, 2009
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                                    By the way, there is a database of plywood suppliers that I created several years ago here in this group's Yahoo web site. Just click on "Database" in the links on the left-hand side. Any member should be able to view it and update it.
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