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Re: Dorado thoughts

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  • daschultz2000
    In an essay about the AF4G Jim Michalak talks about the issues of scaling up a design. He also touches on the subject in his essays about Caprice. I
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 30 9:12 PM
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      In an essay about the AF4G Jim Michalak talks about the issues of
      scaling up a design. He also touches on the subject in his essays
      about Caprice.

      I fundamentally agree with Ken re a general scaleup. I'd be most
      concerned about structural soundness of a scaleup.
    • Mario Korf
      Thanks for the warnings Ken. I ve read pretty much everything in the archives on the AF4, AF4G, and Dorado, and as many of Jim s essays as I could find, so I
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2008
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        Thanks for the warnings Ken. I've read pretty much everything in the archives on the AF4, AF4G, and Dorado, and as many of Jim's essays as I could find, so I understand everything you are saying about scale, and also about ruining a perfectly good design by changing it, adding a lot of weight, etc. This was mostly a mental exercise to see what different looking boats I could come up with based on the Dorado plan. I won't build a bigger Dorado until an actual plan is available, but if Jim were to design one, a 14.5% scale up is the most logical. BTW, some boat plans, like the ones at bateau.com, allow +10% increase
        in size (not just length) with the same scantlings. His boats have much
        more glass, use biax fabric, expensive epoxy, etc.

        So moving on from the scaling up discussion, let's talk about headroom inside. The website description says that Dorado B has 3" more headroom than the original Dorado, but as I read the plans, there's only 1" more height in the side panels; everything else appears to be the same. Is there some other detail I'm overlooking here? I sat on the ground and measured, and I'd need 36" headroom if I sit on the floor, so as it sits (heh), the Dorado B isn't going to cut it. I need a Dorado C.

        I could raise the roof two more inches, and it looks pretty much the same, better in some ways becuse the cabin is more defiend. But for kicks, I raised the roof a few more inches and came up with another drawing, attached. This would offer 42" of headoom inside, instead of the 34" it has now. There's a little more windage, but I kept the bow as low as I could and still make it look OK.

        I would get the designer's OK before I went ahead with anything, of course. This is just a discussion now.

        -Mario





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nels
        ... headroom inside. The website description says that Dorado B has 3 more headroom than the original Dorado, but as I read the plans, there s only 1 more
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 1, 2008
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          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Mario Korf <retrosub@...> wrote:

          > So moving on from the scaling up discussion, let's talk about
          headroom inside. The website description says that Dorado B has 3"
          more headroom than the original Dorado, but as I read the plans,
          there's only 1" more height in the side panels; everything else
          appears to be the same. Is there some other detail I'm overlooking
          here? I sat on the ground and measured, and I'd need 36" headroom if I
          sit on the floor, so as it sits (heh), the Dorado B isn't going to cut
          it. I need a Dorado C.
          >
          > I could raise the roof two more inches, and it looks pretty much the
          same, better in some ways becuse the cabin is more defiend. But for
          kicks, I raised the roof a few more inches and came up with another
          drawing, attached. This would offer 42" of headoom inside, instead of
          the 34" it has now. There's a little more windage, but I kept the bow
          as low as I could and still make it look OK.
          >
          > I would get the designer's OK before I went ahead with anything, of
          course. This is just a discussion now.
          >
          > -Mario

          Hi Mario,

          The attachments don't come through but get deleted by Yahoo. You have
          to create a folder in the files section and add them to the folder.

          The under deck space in Dorado is more cramped than in the AF series
          because it is multi-chined. I expect one would tend to sprawl more
          than sit upright. But raising the deck or sloping it more would
          certainly help.It also has a pretty wide slot with coamings - so a
          hard cover could add more headroom?

          I see no problem in raising the deck height except it will block the
          view forward when sitting in the stern. So remote steering would be
          the way to go.

          Look forward to seeing your drawings.

          Nels
        • daschultz2000
          Greetings, You ve made a couple of references to attached drawings. The yahoo groups don t support images in posts. They have to be uploaded to the specific
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 2, 2008
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            Greetings,

            You've made a couple of references to attached drawings. The yahoo
            groups don't support images in posts. They have to be uploaded to the
            specific folders associated iwth the group.

            Don

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Mario Korf <retrosub@...> wrote:
            >
            > I could raise the roof two more inches, and it looks pretty much the
            same, better in some ways becuse the cabin is more defiend. But for
            kicks, I raised the roof a few more inches and came up with another
            drawing, attached.
            >
          • Kenneth Grome
            ... Yes they do. It s the individual group owners who turn this feature off. There used to be concern over visuses being sent to people via attached images,
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 2, 2008
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              > The yahoo groups don't support images in posts.

              Yes they do.

              It's the individual group owners who turn this feature off.

              There used to be concern over visuses being sent to people
              via attached images, but this has never proven to be a
              concern. I'm a member of another group that has image
              attachments turned "on" and it's a *much* appreciated
              feature for those of us who get our messages via email.

              Sincerely,
              Ken Grome
              Bagacay Boatworks
              www.bagacayboatworks.com
            • alefoot
              ... Ken, you might appreciate it. I for one, do not want my email inbox filled and my bandwidth used for big pictures [often poorly taken] on subjects of
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 2, 2008
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                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > > The yahoo groups don't support images in posts.
                >
                > Yes they do.
                >
                ...I'm a member of another group that has image
                > attachments turned "on" and it's a *much* appreciated
                > feature for those of us who get our messages via email.

                Ken, you might appreciate it. I for one, do not want my email inbox
                filled and my bandwidth used for big pictures [often poorly taken] on
                subjects of marginal interest, unsolicited.

                It has been my experience that if the poster is serious enough to make
                the effort to post images to the files, then often they care enough to
                make the images interesting and useful.

                If I'm not interested in the subject - fine - I do not need to go
                and look at the images. This is only my opinion, but I think that
                there's a reason why many groups are set up not to push
                images over email in the way that you seem to be espousing.

                cheers
                Derek
              • Kenneth Grome
                ... That s good because this group is set up just the way you like it then, right? ... My point was not to suggest that this particular group should have
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 3, 2008
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                  > > I'm a member of another group that has image
                  > > attachments turned "on" and it's a *much*
                  > > appreciated feature for those of us who get
                  > > our messages via email.
                  >
                  > Ken, you might appreciate it. I for one, do not want my
                  > email inbox filled and my bandwidth used for big pictures
                  > [often poorly taken] on subjects of marginal interest,
                  > unsolicited.

                  That's good because this group is set up just the way you
                  like it then, right?

                  :)

                  My point was not to suggest that this particular group
                  should have different setting, it was simply to make it
                  clear that Yahoo groups does indeed allow attachments on
                  email posts *if* the owner allows them.

                  If you're a member of any web-based forum you'd have the
                  pictures delivered to you along with the text that relates
                  to those pictures whether you like it or not. In this
                  respect an email group with attachments enabled is no
                  different from a forum like boatdesign.net for example ...
                  and let me tell you, it's a very pleasant thing to be able
                  to see pictures along with text describing them -- if
                  you're at all interested in the topic to begin with of
                  course.

                  Sincerely,
                  Ken Grome
                  Bagacay Boatworks
                  www.bagacayboatworks.com
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