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Toto question

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  • grafxmangrafxman
    Is the Toto too small for a 250 pounder?
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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      Is the Toto too small for a 250 pounder?
    • Nels
      ... Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation. Michalak claims, In good conditions she will paddle two adults Larsboat has a 30 plug added in the middle to
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "grafxmangrafxman" <grafxman@...> wrote:
        >
        > Is the Toto too small for a 250 pounder?
        >
        Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation. Michalak claims, "In good
        conditions she will paddle two adults" Larsboat has a "30" plug added
        in the middle to gain capacity."

        So the preferred choice might be to decide if you might have a second
        person with you some of time, and are not concerned about the added
        hull weight with Larsboat.

        Nels
      • grafxmangrafxman
        Actually the quote is 180 pounds of buoyancy volume if the hatch cover stays watertight so I m not sure exactly what that means when the description also
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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          Actually the quote is "180 pounds of buoyancy volume if the hatch cover
          stays watertight" so I'm not sure exactly what that means when the
          description also says it will paddle two adults. Are those 90 pound
          adults? I was hoping that someone who has actually built one, who
          perhaps weighs 200 pounds or thereabouts would respond and say yes it
          has 6 inches of freeboard or no it only has 1 inch of freeboard. Thanks
          anyway Nels.

          Roger

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "grafxmangrafxman" <grafxman@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Is the Toto too small for a 250 pounder?
          > >
          > Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation. Michalak claims, "In good
          > conditions she will paddle two adults" Larsboat has a "30" plug added
          > in the middle to gain capacity."
          >
          > So the preferred choice might be to decide if you might have a second
          > person with you some of time, and are not concerned about the added
          > hull weight with Larsboat.
          >
          > Nels
          >
        • Bill Turnbull
          I weigh 180 and often take my daughter along, for a total of about 235 lb., at that weight it is fine. Bill On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 6:44 PM, grafxmangrafxman
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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            I weigh 180 and often take my daughter along, for a total of about 235 lb.,
            at that weight it is fine.

            Bill


            On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 6:44 PM, grafxmangrafxman <grafxman@...>
            wrote:

            > Actually the quote is "180 pounds of buoyancy volume if the hatch cover
            > stays watertight" so I'm not sure exactly what that means when the
            > description also says it will paddle two adults. Are those 90 pound
            > adults? I was hoping that someone who has actually built one, who
            > perhaps weighs 200 pounds or thereabouts would respond and say yes it
            > has 6 inches of freeboard or no it only has 1 inch of freeboard. Thanks
            > anyway Nels.
            >
            > Roger
            >
            >
            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Nels"
            > <arvent@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "grafxmangrafxman" <grafxman@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Is the Toto too small for a 250 pounder?
            > > >
            > > Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation. Michalak claims, "In good
            > > conditions she will paddle two adults" Larsboat has a "30" plug added
            > > in the middle to gain capacity."
            > >
            > > So the preferred choice might be to decide if you might have a second
            > > person with you some of time, and are not concerned about the added
            > > hull weight with Larsboat.
            > >
            > > Nels
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • grafxmangrafxman
            Thanks a lot Bill. That s what I was hoping to hear. Roger ... 235 lb., ... cover ... it ... Thanks ... Nels ... added ... second ... added
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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              Thanks a lot Bill. That's what I was hoping to hear.

              Roger


              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Turnbull" <BillTurnbull@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I weigh 180 and often take my daughter along, for a total of about
              235 lb.,
              > at that weight it is fine.
              >
              > Bill
              >
              >
              > On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 6:44 PM, grafxmangrafxman <grafxman@...>
              > wrote:
              >
              > > Actually the quote is "180 pounds of buoyancy volume if the hatch
              cover
              > > stays watertight" so I'm not sure exactly what that means when the
              > > description also says it will paddle two adults. Are those 90 pound
              > > adults? I was hoping that someone who has actually built one, who
              > > perhaps weighs 200 pounds or thereabouts would respond and say yes
              it
              > > has 6 inches of freeboard or no it only has 1 inch of freeboard.
              Thanks
              > > anyway Nels.
              > >
              > > Roger
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>,
              "Nels"
              > > <arvent@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > > "grafxmangrafxman" <grafxman@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Is the Toto too small for a 250 pounder?
              > > > >
              > > > Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation. Michalak claims, "In good
              > > > conditions she will paddle two adults" Larsboat has a "30" plug
              added
              > > > in the middle to gain capacity."
              > > >
              > > > So the preferred choice might be to decide if you might have a
              second
              > > > person with you some of time, and are not concerned about the
              added
              > > > hull weight with Larsboat.
              > > >
              > > > Nels
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • captreed48
              ... This is the volume of the flotation chamber in cubic feet times the weight of water in a cubic foot. 180 lbs floatation would float the weight of the boat
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                > Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation.

                This is the volume of the flotation chamber in cubic feet times the
                weight of water in a cubic foot. 180 lbs floatation would float the
                weight of the boat if swamped. Subtract the weight of the boat from
                180 and you might get 120 lbs. The normal life jacket has 22 lbs of
                bouyancy. So, the floation in the boat might keep the boat plus 5
                adults in the water alongside of it afloat, all of them wet and miserable.

                My Piccup Pram has about 760 lbs of floatation, so if it were upside
                down I could put 3 adults on the bottom and we would all be completely
                dry...that is if we could get out of the boat and onto the bottom
                without getting wet.

                This is different than the displacement which is the weight of the
                water that the boat displaces. If you take the normal displacement
                given on a set of plans and subtract the boat weight you have the
                weight of allowable crew and supplies. e.g. My Piccup displaces 490
                lbs. Subtracting 100 lbs boat weight gives 390 pounds of crew and
                supplies. Or 2+ adults. I've had 4 adults in it and it is slow, but
                sails fine that way.

                Jim gives his expected displacement on his plans at the waterline at
                the bow.

                Whew. That's a lot of words when you already have your question
                answered. Sorry. I just got started and couldn't stop writing.

                Reed
              • Nels
                ... miserable. ... The Piccup Pram has to be one of the greatest little designs for carrying capacity and safety and can fit in the back of a truck box to! I
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > > Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation.
                  >
                  > This is the volume of the flotation chamber in cubic feet times the
                  > weight of water in a cubic foot. 180 lbs floatation would float the
                  > weight of the boat if swamped. Subtract the weight of the boat from
                  > 180 and you might get 120 lbs. The normal life jacket has 22 lbs of
                  > bouyancy. So, the floation in the boat might keep the boat plus 5
                  > adults in the water alongside of it afloat, all of them wet and
                  miserable.
                  >
                  > My Piccup Pram has about 760 lbs of floatation, so if it were upside
                  > down I could put 3 adults on the bottom and we would all be completely
                  > dry...that is if we could get out of the boat and onto the bottom
                  > without getting wet.
                  >
                  > This is different than the displacement which is the weight of the
                  > water that the boat displaces. If you take the normal displacement
                  > given on a set of plans and subtract the boat weight you have the
                  > weight of allowable crew and supplies. e.g. My Piccup displaces 490
                  > lbs. Subtracting 100 lbs boat weight gives 390 pounds of crew and
                  > supplies. Or 2+ adults. I've had 4 adults in it and it is slow, but
                  > sails fine that way.
                  >
                  > Jim gives his expected displacement on his plans at the waterline at
                  > the bow.
                  >
                  > Whew. That's a lot of words when you already have your question
                  > answered. Sorry. I just got started and couldn't stop writing.
                  >
                  > Reed
                  >
                  The Piccup Pram has to be one of the greatest little designs for
                  carrying capacity and safety and can fit in the back of a truck box to!

                  I found what your wrote to be very helpful:-)

                  Nels
                • Bryant Owen
                  Just a reminder. As drawn by Jim, the only flotation chamber is located in the stern. My .02. Adding a bow flotation chamber - as many have done - should I
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                    Just a reminder. As drawn by Jim, the only flotation chamber is
                    located in the stern.

                    My .02. Adding a bow flotation chamber - as many have done - should I
                    suspect, double the flotation.

                    Bryant

                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation.
                    >
                    > This is the volume of the flotation chamber in cubic feet times the
                    > weight of water in a cubic foot. 180 lbs floatation would float the
                    > weight of the boat if swamped. Subtract the weight of the boat from
                    > 180 and you might get 120 lbs. The normal life jacket has 22 lbs of
                    > bouyancy. So, the floation in the boat might keep the boat plus 5
                    > adults in the water alongside of it afloat, all of them wet and
                    miserable.
                    >
                    > My Piccup Pram has about 760 lbs of floatation, so if it were upside
                    > down I could put 3 adults on the bottom and we would all be completely
                    > dry...that is if we could get out of the boat and onto the bottom
                    > without getting wet.
                    >
                    > This is different than the displacement which is the weight of the
                    > water that the boat displaces. If you take the normal displacement
                    > given on a set of plans and subtract the boat weight you have the
                    > weight of allowable crew and supplies. e.g. My Piccup displaces 490
                    > lbs. Subtracting 100 lbs boat weight gives 390 pounds of crew and
                    > supplies. Or 2+ adults. I've had 4 adults in it and it is slow, but
                    > sails fine that way.
                    >
                    > Jim gives his expected displacement on his plans at the waterline at
                    > the bow.
                    >
                    > Whew. That's a lot of words when you already have your question
                    > answered. Sorry. I just got started and couldn't stop writing.
                    >
                    > Reed
                    >
                  • Bryant Owen
                    Oh, no, not another set of plans to order! Bryant ...
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                      Oh, no, not another set of plans to order!

                      Bryant

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                      <snip>
                      > The Piccup Pram has to be one of the greatest little designs for
                      > carrying capacity and safety and can fit in the back of a truck box to!
                      >
                      > I found what your wrote to be very helpful:-)
                      >
                      > Nels
                      >
                    • captreed48
                      ... Actually I modified mine so it s more like a Mixer...a great little boat. Reed
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bryant Owen" <mariner@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Oh, no, not another set of plans to order!
                        >
                        > Bryant


                        Actually I modified mine so it's more like a Mixer...a great little boat.

                        Reed
                      • Bryant Owen
                        Tell us more about this PP/Mixer. Why? How did it work? Bryant ... boat.
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 2, 2008
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                          Tell us more about this PP/Mixer. Why? How did it work?

                          Bryant

                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bryant Owen" <mariner@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Oh, no, not another set of plans to order!
                          > >
                          > > Bryant
                          >
                          >
                          > Actually I modified mine so it's more like a Mixer...a great little
                          boat.
                          >
                          > Reed
                          >
                        • captreed48
                          ... With the Piccup Pram I thought that the bottom of the bow transom was too low. At first every wave I encountered splashed up and over the fore deck and
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 2, 2008
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                            > Tell us more about this PP/Mixer. Why? How did it work?
                            >
                            > Bryant


                            With the Piccup Pram I thought that the bottom of the bow transom was
                            too low. At first every wave I encountered splashed up and over the
                            fore deck and ran down into the cockpit. I added a splash board on
                            the deck that diverted this water over the side and that helped.

                            Then it seemed that waves I met going to windward were hitting the
                            bow transom and slowing the boat down. I cut off the bow transom,
                            added about a foot to the side and bilge planks and brought them to a
                            point, much a Jim M. did in his Mixer design. All of this was done
                            in correspondence with Jim and led to the Mixer design. I found the
                            boat to be drier and faster to windward.

                            A significant difference? Maybe not, but I'm happy with the
                            results. Now I'm thinking of building an IMB. In that design the
                            waterline is quite a ways below bottom of the bow transom.

                            Reed
                          • grafxmangrafxman
                            Thanks a lot Reed. Like Nels, I too found your explanation very helpful and it explained something I knew nothing about. Unfortunately it made my head explode
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 2, 2008
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                              Thanks a lot Reed. Like Nels, I too found your explanation very helpful
                              and it explained something I knew nothing about. Unfortunately it made
                              my head explode and now I have to go to the hospital. ;)

                              Roger


                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > Toto as designed has 180 lb floatation.
                              > >
                              > > This is the volume of the flotation chamber in cubic feet times the
                              > > weight of water in a cubic foot. 180 lbs floatation would float the
                              > > weight of the boat if swamped. Subtract the weight of the boat from
                              > > 180 and you might get 120 lbs. The normal life jacket has 22 lbs of
                              > > bouyancy. So, the floation in the boat might keep the boat plus 5
                              > > adults in the water alongside of it afloat, all of them wet and
                              > miserable.
                              > >
                              > > My Piccup Pram has about 760 lbs of floatation, so if it were upside
                              > > down I could put 3 adults on the bottom and we would all be
                              completely
                              > > dry...that is if we could get out of the boat and onto the bottom
                              > > without getting wet.
                              > >
                              > > This is different than the displacement which is the weight of the
                              > > water that the boat displaces. If you take the normal displacement
                              > > given on a set of plans and subtract the boat weight you have the
                              > > weight of allowable crew and supplies. e.g. My Piccup displaces 490
                              > > lbs. Subtracting 100 lbs boat weight gives 390 pounds of crew and
                              > > supplies. Or 2+ adults. I've had 4 adults in it and it is slow,
                              but
                              > > sails fine that way.
                              > >
                              > > Jim gives his expected displacement on his plans at the waterline at
                              > > the bow.
                              > >
                              > > Whew. That's a lot of words when you already have your question
                              > > answered. Sorry. I just got started and couldn't stop writing.
                              > >
                              > > Reed
                              > >
                              > The Piccup Pram has to be one of the greatest little designs for
                              > carrying capacity and safety and can fit in the back of a truck box
                              to!
                              >
                              > I found what your wrote to be very helpful:-)
                              >
                              > Nels
                              >
                            • Bryant Owen
                              The broad, blunt bow transom was the one thing that threw me off. Which is why I got Mixer plans. Any comment on the Mixer? Bryant
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 2, 2008
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                                The broad, blunt bow transom was the one thing that threw me off.
                                Which is why I got Mixer plans. Any comment on the Mixer?

                                Bryant

                                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > Tell us more about this PP/Mixer. Why? How did it work?
                                > >
                                > > Bryant
                                >
                                >
                                > With the Piccup Pram I thought that the bottom of the bow transom was
                                > too low. At first every wave I encountered splashed up and over the
                                > fore deck and ran down into the cockpit. I added a splash board on
                                > the deck that diverted this water over the side and that helped.
                                >
                                > Then it seemed that waves I met going to windward were hitting the
                                > bow transom and slowing the boat down. I cut off the bow transom,
                                > added about a foot to the side and bilge planks and brought them to a
                                > point, much a Jim M. did in his Mixer design. All of this was done
                                > in correspondence with Jim and led to the Mixer design. I found the
                                > boat to be drier and faster to windward.
                                >
                                > A significant difference? Maybe not, but I'm happy with the
                                > results. Now I'm thinking of building an IMB. In that design the
                                > waterline is quite a ways below bottom of the bow transom.
                                >
                                > Reed
                                >
                              • Robert Paquette
                                Hi, everyone, I ve joined the two sheets of plywood, end to end. With the rough side of the joined sheets facing up, I ve laid out the lines as per the
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 11 4:31 PM
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                                  Hi, everyone,
                                  I've joined the two sheets of plywood, end to end. With the rough
                                  side of the joined sheets facing up, I've laid out the lines as per
                                  the plans. Now my question is, will the rough side be inside or
                                  outside the boat? I plan on starting my cuts tomorrow morning, so
                                  I've decided to ask the board before starting. My take on the plans
                                  is the bottom bilge shape is the starboard side, and the bottom side
                                  panel is the port side. Is that correct? Does it matter? Of
                                  course, I would like the rough side of the plywood to be inside. Any
                                  Toto builders, or someone with the Toto plans out there, that can help me?
                                  Robert
                                • Chris Feller
                                  I usually put the rough side on the outside when I build plywood boats. It is easier to fill the holes and smooth it that way. Also there is usually more
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 11 4:48 PM
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                                    I usually put the rough side on the outside when I build plywood
                                    boats. It is easier to fill the holes and smooth it that way. Also
                                    there is usually more material on the rough side since it is not as
                                    well sanded. However I would say that it does not really matter.
                                    Either way works well.

                                    Chris Feller

                                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Paquette"
                                    <robertpaquette@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi, everyone,
                                    > I've joined the two sheets of plywood, end to end. With the rough
                                    > side of the joined sheets facing up, I've laid out the lines as per
                                    > the plans. Now my question is, will the rough side be inside or
                                    > outside the boat? I plan on starting my cuts tomorrow morning, so
                                    > I've decided to ask the board before starting. My take on the plans
                                    > is the bottom bilge shape is the starboard side, and the bottom side
                                    > panel is the port side. Is that correct? Does it matter? Of
                                    > course, I would like the rough side of the plywood to be inside. Any
                                    > Toto builders, or someone with the Toto plans out there, that can
                                    help me?
                                    > Robert
                                    >
                                  • Robert Paquette
                                    Hi, Chris, My question remains. As laid out on the plan sheet, if I ve scribed the lines on the rough side. Will the rough side end up being inside or
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 11 5:04 PM
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                                      Hi, Chris,

                                      My question remains. As laid out on the plan sheet, if I've scribed
                                      the lines on the rough side. Will the rough side end up being inside
                                      or outside.

                                      Robert

                                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I usually put the rough side on the outside when I build plywood
                                      > boats. It is easier to fill the holes and smooth it that way. Also
                                      > there is usually more material on the rough side since it is not as
                                      > well sanded. However I would say that it does not really matter.
                                      > Either way works well.
                                      >
                                      > Chris Feller
                                      >
                                      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Paquette"
                                      > <robertpaquette@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi, everyone,
                                      > > I've joined the two sheets of plywood, end to end. With the rough
                                      > > side of the joined sheets facing up, I've laid out the lines as per
                                      > > the plans. Now my question is, will the rough side be inside or
                                      > > outside the boat? I plan on starting my cuts tomorrow morning, so
                                      > > I've decided to ask the board before starting. My take on the plans
                                      > > is the bottom bilge shape is the starboard side, and the bottom side
                                      > > panel is the port side. Is that correct? Does it matter? Of
                                      > > course, I would like the rough side of the plywood to be inside. Any
                                      > > Toto builders, or someone with the Toto plans out there, that can
                                      > help me?
                                      > > Robert
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Chris Feller
                                      If you laid out the sides as mirror images of each other then you could put the boat together either way. I always visualize putting them together after
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 11 5:08 PM
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                                        If you laid out the sides as mirror images of each other then you
                                        could put the boat together either way. I always visualize putting
                                        them together after drawing them. That way I don't end up with two
                                        right sides or two left ones.

                                        Chris Feller
                                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Paquette"
                                        <robertpaquette@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hi, Chris,
                                        >
                                        > My question remains. As laid out on the plan sheet, if I've scribed
                                        > the lines on the rough side. Will the rough side end up being inside
                                        > or outside.
                                        >
                                        > Robert
                                        >
                                        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Feller" <chrisbfeller@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > I usually put the rough side on the outside when I build plywood
                                        > > boats. It is easier to fill the holes and smooth it that way. Also
                                        > > there is usually more material on the rough side since it is not as
                                        > > well sanded. However I would say that it does not really matter.
                                        > > Either way works well.
                                        > >
                                        > > Chris Feller
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Paquette"
                                        > > <robertpaquette@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hi, everyone,
                                        > > > I've joined the two sheets of plywood, end to end. With the rough
                                        > > > side of the joined sheets facing up, I've laid out the lines as per
                                        > > > the plans. Now my question is, will the rough side be inside or
                                        > > > outside the boat? I plan on starting my cuts tomorrow morning, so
                                        > > > I've decided to ask the board before starting. My take on the plans
                                        > > > is the bottom bilge shape is the starboard side, and the bottom side
                                        > > > panel is the port side. Is that correct? Does it matter? Of
                                        > > > course, I would like the rough side of the plywood to be inside.
                                        Any
                                        > > > Toto builders, or someone with the Toto plans out there, that can
                                        > > help me?
                                        > > > Robert
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • captreed48
                                        I think the problem is that we don t know how you laid them out. If you drew them both at the same time, in a mirror image, then it s easy to tip them up so
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 11 6:02 PM
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                                          I think the problem is that we don't know how you laid them out. If
                                          you drew them both at the same time, in a mirror image, then it's easy
                                          to tip them up so the rough side is inside. With your drawn lines
                                          inside it's easy to place the frames.

                                          First I fill the dips or knot holes in the rough side and sand them
                                          before I put the lines down. I usually draw out one side, cut it out
                                          and then flop it over and draw the second side by tracing around the
                                          first side. This cuts down on the measuring. Then I put the smooth
                                          side outside. That way I get a yacht finish that everyone can see.
                                          (Oh. You didn't believe that? You heard that my finish jobs are great
                                          from 50' feet away?...true.) But I do start with the smooth side
                                          outside.

                                          Reed
                                        • adventures_in_astrophotography
                                          Hi Robert, Hopefully when you got done cutting this weekend, you ended up with something like the top photo on this page:
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 14 6:06 AM
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                                            Hi Robert,

                                            Hopefully when you got done cutting this weekend, you ended up with
                                            something like the top photo on this page:
                                            http://www.kolbsadventures.com/toto_1.htm , perhaps with the panels
                                            already scarfed in the middle. Once you are at this point, it's
                                            completely up to you which side goes in or out.

                                            I like to put the bad side out, mainly because nowadays I glass every
                                            boat. I didn't glass the outside of my first Toto, but I did on my
                                            second and it's actually easier to do that way, in my view. Since
                                            Toto is so small, it's simple to omit taping the outside seams and
                                            just glass the whole exterior instead. Doing so requires that you
                                            tape the inside seams first, building "right side up" to start.

                                            On the other hand, if you don't want to glass the exterior, but you
                                            are planning to deck both ends of the boat, putting the bad side in
                                            means you can hide more of the rough panel faces under the fore and
                                            aft decks, and not worry about smoothing out those areas.

                                            Jon Kolb
                                            www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
                                          • David Meyer
                                            ... Robert... I agree that if you are using AB, or one side rough plywood, it makes sense to put the bad side out, as it is much easier to fair the outer
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 17 11:19 AM
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                                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Paquette" <robertpaquette@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              Robert... I agree that if you are using AB, or one side rough plywood,
                                              it makes sense to put the bad side out, as it is much easier to fair
                                              the outer surface than the inner. look at the totos on my site:
                                              http://www.meyerboatworks.com and see if the first six photos answer
                                              you question(s).
                                              >
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