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Re: [Michalak] Re: 1979 outboard troubleshooting ....was ethanol

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  • pecostx@comcast.net
    Thanks for the tip. I have the lower unit off already and the water pump out. By stainless housing do you mean the cup or the entire housing? What keeps the
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 1, 2008
      Thanks for the tip. I have the lower unit off already and the water pump out. By stainless housing do you mean the cup or the entire housing? What keeps the cup from spinning inside the housing, those two little tabs that don't look like they stick up enough to do anything? Is there a seal in the housing where the driveshaft goes through? Does it get replaced with a water pump kit or is that separate? Most of the kits I've been able to find so far just show the plate and one gasket, mine came apart with what appears to be a gasket under the plate as well. Is that available also?


      Geoff
      p.s. thanks Rob re; animated 2stroke. found it and I get now.



      -------------- Original message --------------
      From: "Bryant Owen" <mariner@...>
      I'd like to second that. It's not that bad a job and the parts aren't
      that much money. When you get the l/u off and remove the water pump
      housing don't forget to check the housing and plate itself for wear
      and tear. They can be replaced AND if you're planning to operate in
      salt water or silty water, consider the SS housing/plate kit.Big hint.
      No matter how good the impellor looks REPLACE IT.

      AND.... buy Max's book and read the section on water pumps.

      Bryant - who worked on lots of these as an OMC mechanic

      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > The barrel is more foolproof. Do I remember you saying it
      "eventually" pumped water? An old, sticky impeller might cause
      trouble. It's a good idea t oreplace 'em anyhow, so I might start there.
      > --Rob
      >
      >
      > Re: 1979 outboard troubleshooting ....was ethanol
      > Posted by: "pecostx@..." pecostx@... pecostexas51
      > Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:25 am ((PST))
      >
      > Will do! When I looked at it 2 yrs ago we drained the lower unit then
      > and refilled it. It didn't look too bad as I recall, only the slightest
      > hint of milk chocolate coloring to the oil then. It has not run or seen
      > any use since. I've tried the shifter manually without the engine
      > running (obviously) while turning the prop and it seems to work
      smoothly
      > into forward and reverse considering circumstances. The motor
      didn't stay
      > running long enough each time it started to try shifting or it would
      > stall. I believe it is a "southern" motor so I don't think that
      freezing
      > water inside should be a concern.
      >
      > How should I try to start it? Will one of those earmuff type waterhose
      > attachments be ok or would I be better off putting it in a barrel of
      > water?
      >
      > Geoff
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
      Try it now.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • pecostx@comcast.net
      Also how does 110# for the top cyl. and 108# for the bottom cyl. sound for compression? There are what appear to be timing degree marks on the flywheel, one
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 1, 2008
        Also how does 110# for the top cyl. and 108# for the bottom cyl. sound for compression? There are what appear to be timing degree marks on the flywheel, one that says cd and the other says elect. cd and they are about 1/3 of the flywheel apartfrom each other. Are they for two types of ignition? How can I tell which I should use?

        Geoff

        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: pecostx@...
        Thanks for the tip. I have the lower unit off already and the water pump out. By stainless housing do you mean the cup or the entire housing? What keeps the cup from spinning inside the housing, those two little tabs that don't look like they stick up enough to do anything? Is there a seal in the housing where the driveshaft goes through? Does it get replaced with a water pump kit or is that separate? Most of the kits I've been able to find so far just show the plate and one gasket, mine came apart with what appears to be a gasket under the plate as well. Is that available also?

        Geoff
        p.s. thanks Rob re; animated 2stroke. found it and I get now.

        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: "Bryant Owen" <mariner@...>
        I'd like to second that. It's not that bad a job and the parts aren't
        that much money. When you get the l/u off and remove the water pump
        housing don't forget to check the housing and plate itself for wear
        and tear. They can be replaced AND if you're planning to operate in
        salt water or silty water, consider the SS housing/plate kit.Big hint.
        No matter how good the impellor looks REPLACE IT.

        AND.... buy Max's book and read the section on water pumps.

        Bryant - who worked on lots of these as an OMC mechanic

        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > The barrel is more foolproof. Do I remember you saying it
        "eventually" pumped water? An old, sticky impeller might cause
        trouble. It's a good idea t oreplace 'em anyhow, so I might start there.
        > --Rob
        >
        >
        > Re: 1979 outboard troubleshooting ....was ethanol
        > Posted by: "pecostx@..." pecostx@... pecostexas51
        > Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:25 am ((PST))
        >
        > Will do! When I looked at it 2 yrs ago we drained the lower unit then
        > and refilled it. It didn't look too bad as I recall, only the slightest
        > hint of milk chocolate coloring to the oil then. It has not run or seen
        > any use since. I've tried the shifter manually without the engine
        > running (obviously) while turning the prop and it seems to work
        smoothly
        > into forward and reverse considering circumstances. The motor
        didn't stay
        > running long enough each time it started to try shifting or it would
        > stall. I believe it is a "southern" motor so I don't think that
        freezing
        > water inside should be a concern.
        >
        > How should I try to start it? Will one of those earmuff type waterhose
        > attachments be ok or would I be better off putting it in a barrel of
        > water?
        >
        > Geoff
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
        Try it now.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bryant Owen
        I meant the cup. Once it s in place and everything is fastened down, it s fine. IIRC OMC had a lot of problems with the original pump housing wearing
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 1, 2008
          I meant the cup. Once it's in place and everything is fastened down,
          it's fine.

          IIRC OMC had a lot of problems with the original pump housing wearing
          prematurely and introduced the SS cup ass'y as a fix. The whole kit is
          about $27 through www.marineengine.com. You can look through the
          online Sierra catalogue there and you'll see the kit on page 186 (part
          18-3327). You can also order individual parts here too.

          Chances are all you'll need is the impeller at about $10 provided
          everything else looks good but if you've had pumping problems a whole
          kit isn't a lot more. Please get Max's book and most of what he says
          is applicable here. Please don't forget to lube the water tube grommet
          with some light oil. I've seen these grommets distort on assembly and
          partially block water flow.

          Good luck.

          Bryant

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, pecostx@... wrote:
          >
          > Thanks for the tip. I have the lower unit off already and the water
          pump out. By stainless housing do you mean the cup or the entire
          housing? What keeps the cup from spinning inside the housing, those
          two little tabs that don't look like they stick up enough to do
          anything? Is there a seal in the housing where the driveshaft goes
          through? Does it get replaced with a water pump kit or is that
          separate? Most of the kits I've been able to find so far just show the
          plate and one gasket, mine came apart with what appears to be a gasket
          under the plate as well. Is that available also?
          >
          >
          > Geoff
          > p.s. thanks Rob re; animated 2stroke. found it and I get now.
          >
          >
          >
          > -------------- Original message --------------
          > From: "Bryant Owen" <mariner@...>
          > I'd like to second that. It's not that bad a job and the parts aren't
          > that much money. When you get the l/u off and remove the water pump
          > housing don't forget to check the housing and plate itself for wear
          > and tear. They can be replaced AND if you're planning to operate in
          > salt water or silty water, consider the SS housing/plate kit.Big hint.
          > No matter how good the impellor looks REPLACE IT.
          >
          > AND.... buy Max's book and read the section on water pumps.
          >
          > Bryant - who worked on lots of these as an OMC mechanic
          >
          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > The barrel is more foolproof. Do I remember you saying it
          > "eventually" pumped water? An old, sticky impeller might cause
          > trouble. It's a good idea t oreplace 'em anyhow, so I might start there.
          > > --Rob
          > >
          > >
          > > Re: 1979 outboard troubleshooting ....was ethanol
          > > Posted by: "pecostx@" pecostx@ pecostexas51
          > > Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:25 am ((PST))
          > >
          > > Will do! When I looked at it 2 yrs ago we drained the lower unit then
          > > and refilled it. It didn't look too bad as I recall, only the
          slightest
          > > hint of milk chocolate coloring to the oil then. It has not run or
          seen
          > > any use since. I've tried the shifter manually without the engine
          > > running (obviously) while turning the prop and it seems to work
          > smoothly
          > > into forward and reverse considering circumstances. The motor
          > didn't stay
          > > running long enough each time it started to try shifting or it would
          > > stall. I believe it is a "southern" motor so I don't think that
          > freezing
          > > water inside should be a concern.
          > >
          > > How should I try to start it? Will one of those earmuff type waterhose
          > > attachments be ok or would I be better off putting it in a barrel of
          > > water?
          > >
          > > Geoff
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
          > Try it now.
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • vexatious2001
          ... sound for compression? There are what appear to be timing degree marks on the flywheel, one that says cd and the other says elect. cd and they are about
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 2, 2008
            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, pecostx@... wrote:
            >
            > Also how does 110# for the top cyl. and 108# for the bottom cyl.
            sound for compression? There are what appear to be timing degree
            marks on the flywheel, one that says cd and the other says elect. cd
            and they are about 1/3 of the flywheel apartfrom each other. Are
            they for two types of ignition? How can I tell which I should use?
            >
            > Geoff
            >
            >


            The compression sounds fine.

            According the my info, the 25 had breaker point
            ignition up until 1976, and had CD (electronic)
            ignition from 1977 on. On the CD models there sould
            be timing marks in degrees on the flywheel, and a
            timing mark on the recoil starter housing (for manual
            start models) or on the electric starter motor mount
            on electric start models. One uses a timing time on the
            upper cylinder for timing these models and timing should
            be at the 34 degree mark for engines prior to 1982 when
            the engine is running at full throttle under load.




            Max
          • Bryant Owen
            Was I thinking one thing and doing another. Was this a 9.9 or a 25? Bryant - confused in the snow
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 2, 2008
              Was I thinking one thing and doing another. Was this a 9.9 or a 25?

              Bryant - confused in the snow

              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vexatious2001" <cadbury112@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, pecostx@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Also how does 110# for the top cyl. and 108# for the bottom cyl.
              > sound for compression? There are what appear to be timing degree
              > marks on the flywheel, one that says cd and the other says elect. cd
              > and they are about 1/3 of the flywheel apartfrom each other. Are
              > they for two types of ignition? How can I tell which I should use?
              > >
              > > Geoff
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > The compression sounds fine.
              >
              > According the my info, the 25 had breaker point
              > ignition up until 1976, and had CD (electronic)
              > ignition from 1977 on. On the CD models there sould
              > be timing marks in degrees on the flywheel, and a
              > timing mark on the recoil starter housing (for manual
              > start models) or on the electric starter motor mount
              > on electric start models. One uses a timing time on the
              > upper cylinder for timing these models and timing should
              > be at the 34 degree mark for engines prior to 1982 when
              > the engine is running at full throttle under load.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Max
              >
            • vexatious2001
              ... Went back & checked: Actually, it s a 35 Didn t I always say that these old outbard grow on you ?? Max
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 2, 2008
                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bryant Owen" <mariner@...> wrote:
                >
                > Was I thinking one thing and doing another. Was this a 9.9 or a 25?
                >
                > Bryant - confused in the snow
                >
                >


                Went back & checked:

                Actually, it's a 35

                Didn't I always say that these old outbard
                "grow" on you ??




                Max
              • Bryant Owen
                Duhh. Well obviously my links were not suited. Having said that, I m sure the same info can be found on Sierra in a similar fashion. Can t say for sure re the
                Message 7 of 22 , Feb 2, 2008
                  Duhh. Well obviously my links were not suited. Having said that, I'm
                  sure the same info can be found on Sierra in a similar fashion. Can't
                  say for sure re the SS housing but as I recall it was a common upgrade
                  in the kits.

                  Having said that I always liked the 35hp series. Can't remember any
                  major work needing doing - unless you count damaged lower units when
                  people found immersed immovable objects at high speed.

                  Bryant

                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vexatious2001" <cadbury112@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bryant Owen" <mariner@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Was I thinking one thing and doing another. Was this a 9.9 or a 25?
                  > >
                  > > Bryant - confused in the snow
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Went back & checked:
                  >
                  > Actually, it's a 35
                  >
                  > Didn't I always say that these old outbard
                  > "grow" on you ??
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Max
                  >
                • pecostx@comcast.net
                  Mine has both electric and recoil starting, so would either one be ok to use? By under load you mean in gear with the prop submersed, correct? Geoff ... From:
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 2, 2008
                    Mine has both electric and recoil starting, so would either one be ok to use? By under load you mean in gear with the prop submersed, correct?

                    Geoff

                    -------------- Original message --------------
                    From: "vexatious2001" <cadbury112@...>
                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, pecostx@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Also how does 110# for the top cyl. and 108# for the bottom cyl.
                    sound for compression? There are what appear to be timing degree
                    marks on the flywheel, one that says cd and the other says elect. cd
                    and they are about 1/3 of the flywheel apartfrom each other. Are
                    they for two types of ignition? How can I tell which I should use?
                    >
                    > Geoff
                    >
                    >

                    The compression sounds fine.

                    According the my info, the 25 had breaker point
                    ignition up until 1976, and had CD (electronic)
                    ignition from 1977 on. On the CD models there sould
                    be timing marks in degrees on the flywheel, and a
                    timing mark on the recoil starter housing (for manual
                    start models) or on the electric starter motor mount
                    on electric start models. One uses a timing time on the
                    upper cylinder for timing these models and timing should
                    be at the 34 degree mark for engines prior to 1982 when
                    the engine is running at full throttle under load.

                    Max




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • pecostx@comcast.net
                    Actually it s a 35. Being up in the snow for over 30yrs myself (Clinton, Ct. and Chicago Heights, Il.)
                    Message 9 of 22 , Feb 2, 2008
                      Actually it's a 35. Being up in the "snow" for over 30yrs myself (Clinton, Ct. and Chicago Heights, Il.)< I can understand your confusion.

                      Geoff in NO SNOW Jacksonville, FL.

                      -------------- Original message --------------
                      From: "Bryant Owen" <mariner@...>
                      Was I thinking one thing and doing another. Was this a 9.9 or a 25?

                      Bryant - confused in the snow

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vexatious2001" <cadbury112@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, pecostx@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Also how does 110# for the top cyl. and 108# for the bottom cyl.
                      > sound for compression? There are what appear to be timing degree
                      > marks on the flywheel, one that says cd and the other says elect. cd
                      > and they are about 1/3 of the flywheel apartfrom each other. Are
                      > they for two types of ignition? How can I tell which I should use?
                      > >
                      > > Geoff
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > The compression sounds fine.
                      >
                      > According the my info, the 25 had breaker point
                      > ignition up until 1976, and had CD (electronic)
                      > ignition from 1977 on. On the CD models there sould
                      > be timing marks in degrees on the flywheel, and a
                      > timing mark on the recoil starter housing (for manual
                      > start models) or on the electric starter motor mount
                      > on electric start models. One uses a timing time on the
                      > upper cylinder for timing these models and timing should
                      > be at the 34 degree mark for engines prior to 1982 when
                      > the engine is running at full throttle under load.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Max
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Rob Rohde-Szudy
                      110/108 psi sounds quite good! Can t help you oon the timing marks, though. My motors aren t that modern! --Rob Re: 1979 outboard troubleshooting ....was
                      Message 10 of 22 , Feb 4, 2008
                        110/108 psi sounds quite good! Can't help you oon the timing marks, though. My motors aren't that modern!
                        --Rob


                        Re: 1979 outboard troubleshooting ....was ethanol
                        Posted by: "pecostx@..." pecostx@... pecostexas51
                        Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 11:30 am ((PST))

                        Also how does 110# for the top cyl. and 108# for the bottom cyl. sound
                        for compression? There are what appear to be timing degree marks on the
                        flywheel, one that says cd and the other says elect. cd and they are
                        about 1/3 of the flywheel apartfrom each other. Are they for two types
                        of ignition? How can I tell which I should use?

                        Geoff



                        ---------------------------------
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