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canvass drop cloth sail

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  • Scott Gosnell
    I am currently building a mayfly 14, would a canvass drop cloth be suitable material for the sail? I think it would have a nice look, and sew up well, but I am
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 30, 2007
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      I am currently building a mayfly 14, would a canvass drop cloth be
      suitable material for the sail? I think it would have a nice look, and
      sew up well, but I am concerned about the weight. Any input will be
      much appreciated.
      Thanks,
      Scott
    • Chris Feller
      Canvass is not a good option for an inexpensive sail. The fabric is too heavy and will streach too much. The good news is that Polytarp makes a great sail. I
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 30, 2007
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        Canvass is not a good option for an inexpensive sail. The fabric is
        too heavy and will streach too much.

        The good news is that Polytarp makes a great sail. I have sailed side
        by side boats with polytarp sails with me using a Dacron sail and have
        seen no diffence in performance. I highly recommend Polytarp as an
        alternative to Dacron.

        You might check out the link below. They sell a heavier duty poltarp
        which works better than the usual blue ones you can get at local stores.

        http://hometown.aol.com/polysail/HTML/index.htm


        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Gosnell" <tsgosnell@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am currently building a mayfly 14, would a canvass drop cloth be
        > suitable material for the sail? I think it would have a nice look,
        and
        > sew up well, but I am concerned about the weight. Any input will be
        > much appreciated.
        > Thanks,
        > Scott
        >
      • bagneaux
        Find a copy of The Sailmaker s Apprentice by Emiliano Marino. On page 150, he answers a question about a 75 foot sail for an 11 dinghy. Perfectly acceptable
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 30, 2007
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          Find a copy of The Sailmaker's Apprentice by Emiliano Marino. On page
          150, he answers a question about a 75 foot sail for an 11' dinghy.
          "Perfectly acceptable sails may be made from Tyvek, polyethylene tarps,
          London Fog raincoat material, bag nylon, or tent canvas-- not to mention
          old sails." In the next paragraph he states, " Nonsailcloth cottons
          such as the rather heavy 10-ounce Vivatex, however, offer a durable,
          natural material that, with minimal expertise, expense, and labor can be
          made into a functional and forgiving sail.
          In a table on page 235 entitled Suggested Cloth Uses, there are three
          mentions of cotton canvas.
          Traditionally cut dinghy sails under 100 sq. ft. -- Cotton 4.25 - 6.10
          ounces.
          Quick and Dirty sails under 100 sq. ft. -- Cotton Drill 7 ounces
          Working Sails -- Vivatex cotton canvas in 10.1 ounces. Here is the
          manufacturer's explanation of Vivatex.

          VIVATEX™

          Our Boat covers are made from 100% cotton army duck canvas. Our canvas
          is the best on the market today. It has a very high thread count (54 X
          42, two by two). This means that in every square inch the weave has 54
          passes in one direction and 42 in the other, with 2 threads joined in
          each pass. The canvas is pre-treated in the mill with Vivatex™
          process, making it a marine canvas suitable for outdoor use on land or
          sea. The mineral dyes used are totally safe, and give it added water
          repellency and resistance to mold and mildew. The Vivatex™ process
          pre-shrinks the fabric, and is superior to water-proofing, for it leaves
          the canvas able to breathe and therefore, not trap moisture.



          I hope this helps.
          Loy




          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Gosnell" <tsgosnell@...> wrote:
          >
          > I am currently building a mayfly 14, would a canvass drop cloth be
          > suitable material for the sail? I think it would have a nice look, and
          > sew up well, but I am concerned about the weight. Any input will be
          > much appreciated.
          > Thanks,
          > Scott
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Whiffert
          ... Yes, do mention old sails. If you know anyone who is a competitive dinghy sailor, its more than likely they will have sets of older blown-out sails
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 30, 2007
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            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "bagneaux" <loyseal1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Find a copy of The Sailmaker's Apprentice by Emiliano Marino. On page
            > 150, he answers a question about a 75 foot sail for an 11' dinghy.
            > "Perfectly acceptable sails may be made from Tyvek, polyethylene tarps,
            > London Fog raincoat material, bag nylon, or tent canvas-- not to mention
            > old sails."

            Yes, do mention old sails. If you know anyone who is a competitive
            dinghy sailor, its more than likely they will have sets of older
            'blown-out' sails which you should be able to obtain cheap or free,
            depending on how good a friend they are. (heh heh)

            My Father and Brother sail Thistle class sloops and I was given an old
            mainsail last year. This year I was offered several more, but didn't
            have the space.

            Maybe I should consider taking the sails and unstitching them to
            recover the material?
          • Rob Rohde-Szudy
            What Chris said. Some of the other suggestions aren t bad, though I would avoid painter s dropcloth in particular. It s more like cheesecloth than real canvas.
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 1, 2007
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              What Chris said. Some of the other suggestions aren't bad, though I would avoid painter's dropcloth in particular. It's more like cheesecloth than real canvas. But polytarp is by far the easiest to use and performs quite well. I have made 5 sails form polytarp now and I still don't feel like I'm quite good enough at it to take on (and possibly waste) real sailcloth.
              --Rob



              canvass drop cloth sail
              Posted by: "Scott Gosnell" tsgosnell@... tsgosnell
              Date: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:44 am ((PST))

              I am currently building a mayfly 14, would a canvass drop cloth be
              suitable material for the sail? I think it would have a nice look, and
              sew up well, but I am concerned about the weight. Any input will be
              much appreciated.
              Thanks,
              Scott



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            • pindimarscram
              Actually there was a fantastic article on making a cotton sail in Duckworks not so long ago and the idea of cotton did seem very attractive after reading that
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 1, 2007
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                Actually there was a fantastic article on making a cotton sail in
                Duckworks not so long ago and the idea of cotton did seem very
                attractive after reading that article.

                As a kid I had a Sabot with a cotton sail which was OLD then, but it
                worked OK - down wind and across the wind, at least, and the boat
                still did go up-wind, although I don't think we ever came close to
                winning a race!

                Cotton sails look and feel great, too.

                Here is the link to that Duckworks article:
                http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/howto/retro/index.htm

                Greg F


                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Gosnell" <tsgosnell@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am currently building a mayfly 14, would a canvass drop cloth be
                > suitable material for the sail? I think it would have a nice look, and
                > sew up well, but I am concerned about the weight. Any input will be
                > much appreciated.
                > Thanks,
                > Scott
                >
              • David Hahn
                My wife sewed up a canvass sail for my little V12. It wasn t a very big sail, and it was fairly small boat, but it worked pretty well for several years. It
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 7, 2007
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                  My wife sewed up a canvass sail for my little V12. It
                  wasn't a very big sail, and it was fairly small boat,
                  but it worked pretty well for several years. It was a
                  fairly tight weave, and she bought it at a fabric
                  store on sale one day.

                  I have built one other sail, for Picara out of
                  polytarp, and have only sailed it in light breezes.
                  It is 137 sq ft, and I don't know if it would hold
                  together in a blow.

                  Early on I bought actual sailcloth for Picara, but
                  found it to be really hard to sew - not that the
                  machine wouldn't sew it, but it is so stiff.... It is
                  all cut out, and I might get the courage to work on it
                  this winter. But when we were at Walmart a few weeks
                  ago she found some soft but heavy duty material that I
                  think would be OK. I probably wouldn't get the
                  performance out of it, but it think it will be quiet,
                  and that means a lot to me. Darn polytarp is really
                  noisy. My two cents.

                  Dave


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                • Rob Rohde-Szudy
                  FWIW, regular Dacron sailcloth is sort of noisy too. Heavy duty polytarp seems about the same as real sailcloth in terms of noise - maybe a bit quieter. Light,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 8, 2007
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                    FWIW, regular Dacron sailcloth is sort of noisy too. Heavy duty polytarp seems about the same as real sailcloth in terms of noise - maybe a bit quieter. Light, cheap polytarp is very noisy. Painter's drop cloth is quiet, but too porous and stretchy. Real canvas...well, I guess I haven't ever sailed with it so I can't compare. In a tent it seems relatively quiet.
                    --Rob



                    Re: canvass drop cloth sail
                    Posted by: "David Hahn" delta531@... oarelse1016
                    Date: Fri Dec 7, 2007 4:31 pm ((PST))

                    My wife sewed up a canvass sail for my little V12. It
                    wasn't a very big sail, and it was fairly small boat,
                    but it worked pretty well for several years. It was a
                    fairly tight weave, and she bought it at a fabric
                    store on sale one day.

                    I have built one other sail, for Picara out of
                    polytarp, and have only sailed it in light breezes.
                    It is 137 sq ft, and I don't know if it would hold
                    together in a blow.

                    Early on I bought actual sailcloth for Picara, but
                    found it to be really hard to sew - not that the
                    machine wouldn't sew it, but it is so stiff.... It is
                    all cut out, and I might get the courage to work on it
                    this winter. But when we were at Walmart a few weeks
                    ago she found some soft but heavy duty material that I
                    think would be OK. I probably wouldn't get the
                    performance out of it, but it think it will be quiet,
                    and that means a lot to me. Darn polytarp is really
                    noisy. My two cents.

                    Dave



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                  • Brian Anderson
                    I have built one other sail, for Picara out of polytarp, and have only sailed it in light breezes. It is 137 sq ft, and I don t know if it would hold together
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 8, 2007
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                      "I have built one other sail, for Picara out of
                      polytarp, and have only sailed it in light breezes.
                      It is 137 sq ft, and I don't know if it would hold
                      together in a blow. "

                      I have a couple of large bags sewed up out of blue polytarp from Ikea. We
                      use them as grocery bags, and there is one that is at least three years old
                      that I have used many times to drag at least 40 pounds of stuff a couple of
                      hundred yards to the car and then up four flights of stairs. I looked at the
                      stitching the other day because I started to wonder if it was starting to
                      let go, and it looked as tight as a new bag we got a while back... Maybe not
                      comparable to a gale, and they live out of the UV light, but impressed me
                      none the less.

                      Cheers, Brian

                      On Dec 8, 2007 4:39 PM, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:

                      > FWIW, regular Dacron sailcloth is sort of noisy too. Heavy duty polytarp
                      > seems about the same as real sailcloth in terms of noise - maybe a bit
                      > quieter. Light, cheap polytarp is very noisy. Painter's drop cloth is quiet,
                      > but too porous and stretchy. Real canvas...well, I guess I haven't ever
                      > sailed with it so I can't compare. In a tent it seems relatively quiet.
                      > --Rob
                      >
                      > Re: canvass drop cloth sail
                      > Posted by: "David Hahn" delta531@... <delta531%40yahoo.com>oarelse1016
                      > Date: Fri Dec 7, 2007 4:31 pm ((PST))
                      >
                      >
                      > My wife sewed up a canvass sail for my little V12. It
                      > wasn't a very big sail, and it was fairly small boat,
                      > but it worked pretty well for several years. It was a
                      > fairly tight weave, and she bought it at a fabric
                      > store on sale one day.
                      >
                      > I have built one other sail, for Picara out of
                      > polytarp, and have only sailed it in light breezes.
                      > It is 137 sq ft, and I don't know if it would hold
                      > together in a blow.
                      >
                      > Early on I bought actual sailcloth for Picara, but
                      > found it to be really hard to sew - not that the
                      > machine wouldn't sew it, but it is so stiff.... It is
                      > all cut out, and I might get the courage to work on it
                      > this winter. But when we were at Walmart a few weeks
                      > ago she found some soft but heavy duty material that I
                      > think would be OK. I probably wouldn't get the
                      > performance out of it, but it think it will be quiet,
                      > and that means a lot to me. Darn polytarp is really
                      > noisy. My two cents.
                      >
                      > Dave
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Hahn
                      Hi Brian, Actually, I think the polytarp could be made to be plenty strong, but I didn t do all that I should have to make it strong. Not too long ago I
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 9, 2007
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                        Hi Brian,

                        Actually, I think the polytarp could be made to be
                        plenty strong, but I didn't do all that I should have
                        to make it strong. Not too long ago I bought a copy
                        of 'The Sailmakers Apprentice' from Sail Rite and
                        found out that I should have put a lot of
                        reinforcements in, used better and bigger grommets
                        etc. When I made the sail I was in a hurry and spread
                        it out, measured out the sail and cut cut it out. I
                        got some grommets from the local hardware store, which
                        actually are adaquate - no blue water stuff here. I
                        sewed the sail up flat and installed a couple of
                        proprotionaly spaced reef lines and called it a sail.


                        Before we went to Lake Powell this year I sewed a
                        short seam about every 24" around the edge of the
                        sail. That was my attempt to put some depth into the
                        sail, and it worked pretty well in the light winds
                        that we had.

                        This sail takes up most of my living room and part of
                        the dining room when I layed it out, and without any
                        reinforcement patches or a sewed in rope to strengthen
                        it I am a little leary of how it will hold up in a
                        blow. So I think I am going to go back to the book
                        and sew up a sail that will probably be twice as heavy
                        as it needs to be, but I will have done all that I can
                        do to make it strong. Probably just my inexperience
                        and native cowardice taking over.




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