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Re: [Michalak] New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s

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  • david@simplicityboats.com
    Steve, Herb McLeod turned me on to PL Premium - a polyurethane construction adhesive available at places like Home Depot. Related to 3M 5200 but much less
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 6, 2002
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      Steve,
          Herb McLeod turned me on to PL Premium - a polyurethane construction adhesive available at places like Home Depot. Related to 3M 5200 but much less expensive. I know Herb built the prototype AF3 with it. I have an assortment of info about it on my site. Here Dave Colpits made a Kayak with it 6 yrs ago.
       
      This is an overview of the stuff....
       
      I'm in the process of running some tests on alternative stitch and glue joints with it here.
       
      But using it in chine log construction is pretty tried and true, and a lot easier to use than powdered glue - no mixing required
       
      Good luck..
       
      David Beede
       
      www.simplicityboats.com     
            ~~~/^\
                 /      \
               /         /
             /_____/
        _______ /___/
        \__________/
                 \/     
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: S. Burton
      Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:42 AM
      Subject: [Michalak] New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s

      Hello all,

      Just sent for my AF3 plans after checking out all my options for a week or
      so, and I'm very excited to begin construction!

      I have some questions, apologies if they have been asked recently.

      What is my likely budget to be both in cost and amount of epoxy?

      Assuming that I'll glass the entire boat, what quantity and cost for
      fibreglass (tape, resin, etc.)?

      Having read Payson where he extols the virtues of "powdered glue" over
      epoxy, in 1983, does this still hold true?  Any good reason not to use
      powdered glue in place of epoxy, except for fileting?

      What is the likely lifespan of the boat if I use plain old external plywood
      instead of marine?  The cost is so much higher for the marine.

      What length shaft for the outboard?  What motors have others been using?

      Anyone using a balance lug rig for this boat?  I think I'd really like to do
      that, I'm most familiar with that rig.

      thanks in advance for any answers, and please stop me from making a big
      mistake if you think that I'm heading that way with any of this.

        -  Steve Burton



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      Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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    • Richard Spelling
      ... From: shoalwater1 To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: [Michalak] Re: New AF3 Builder
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 6, 2002
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "shoalwater1" <sburton58@...>
        To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 5:15 PM
        Subject: [Michalak] Re: New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s


        |
        | Isn't it true that with a Lug you can obtain a lower center of effort?

        Sure, but most of the wind is up high. And, the sprit is a more efficient
        shape. Also, and you really wouldn't think so, but that added weight of the
        yard up high is quite significant as far as tenderness goes.

        I prefer high peaked gaff (almost gunter) rigs myself.
      • Richard Spelling
        I ve seen that, but do you really save any money? Assume you use the same amount on the joint, how much is the PL Premium per gallon? (or oz, or liter, or
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 6, 2002
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          I've seen that, but do you really save any money? Assume you use the same
          amount on the joint, how much is the PL Premium per gallon? (or oz, or
          liter, or whatever) I know it comes in tubes, but if you are going to
          compare it with epoxy we should compare the unit prices.

          Probably easier to apply, though.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <david@...>
          To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 9:31 PM
          Subject: Re: [Michalak] New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s


          Steve,
          Herb McLeod turned me on to PL Premium - a polyurethane construction
          adhesive available at places like Home Depot. Related to 3M 5200 but much
          less expensive. I know Herb built the prototype AF3 with it. I have an
          assortment of info about it on my site. Here Dave Colpits made a Kayak with
          it 6 yrs ago.
          http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/pl_testimonials.html

          This is an overview of the stuff....
          http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/pl_premium.htm

          I'm in the process of running some tests on alternative stitch and glue
          joints with it here.
          http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/jointtest.html

          But using it in chine log construction is pretty tried and true, and a lot
          easier to use than powdered glue - no mixing required

          Good luck..

          David Beede

          www.simplicityboats.com
          ~~~/^\
          / \
          / /
          /_____/
          _______ /___/
          \__________/
          \/
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: S. Burton
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:42 AM
          Subject: [Michalak] New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s


          Hello all,

          Just sent for my AF3 plans after checking out all my options for a week or
          so, and I'm very excited to begin construction!

          I have some questions, apologies if they have been asked recently.

          What is my likely budget to be both in cost and amount of epoxy?

          Assuming that I'll glass the entire boat, what quantity and cost for
          fibreglass (tape, resin, etc.)?

          Having read Payson where he extols the virtues of "powdered glue" over
          epoxy, in 1983, does this still hold true? Any good reason not to use
          powdered glue in place of epoxy, except for fileting?

          What is the likely lifespan of the boat if I use plain old external
          plywood
          instead of marine? The cost is so much higher for the marine.

          What length shaft for the outboard? What motors have others been using?

          Anyone using a balance lug rig for this boat? I think I'd really like to
          do
          that, I'm most familiar with that rig.

          thanks in advance for any answers, and please stop me from making a big
          mistake if you think that I'm heading that way with any of this.

          - Steve Burton


          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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        • Mark A.
          ... Can t confirm this since his site went out some time ago, but I recall he even used unbeveled frames with 3/8ths PL fillets.
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 6, 2002
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            >
            > Steve,
            > Herb McLeod turned me on to PL Premium - a polyurethane construction adhesive available at places >>I know Herb built the prototype AF3 with it.

            Can't confirm this since his site went out some time ago, but I recall he even used
            unbeveled frames with 3/8ths PL fillets.
          • Sakari Aaltonen
            Richard Spelling wrote ... I tried some glue of this sort recently (comes in a tube, is applied with a pistol-like handle). The package stated that it was
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 7, 2002
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              Richard Spelling wrote
              > I've seen that, but do you really save any money? Assume you use the same
              > amount on the joint, how much is the PL Premium per gallon? (or oz, or
              > liter, or whatever) I know it comes in tubes, but if you are going to
              > compare it with epoxy we should compare the unit prices.
              >
              > Probably easier to apply, though.

              I tried some glue of this sort recently (comes in a tube, is applied
              with a pistol-like handle). The package stated that it was impervious
              to seawater, which sounded good. But I gave up on it when I found out
              that I couldn't paint it. Couldn't even sand it.


              Sakari Aaltonen
            • rnlocnil
              You have to use exactly the right stuff. Especially since the tube doesn t say anything about seawater on it, it just claims to be waterproof. The PL stuff is
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 7, 2002
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                You have to use exactly the right stuff. Especially since the tube
                doesn't say anything about seawater on it, it just claims to be
                waterproof. The PL stuff is QUITE different from 3M 5200 and the
                like. A lot of different products are sold in those little tubes. If
                it wasn't PL Premium Construction Adhesive, then who knows what
                results you'd get? I suspect you were either using the wrong stuff, or
                not waiting long enough for the conditions (overnight in hot, humid
                weather, maybe a week or more when it's really cold). While it doesn't
                sand as well as wood, it does sand. I can paint it, tho I admit the
                unsanded stuff doesn't hold paint quite as well as some other
                surfaces.

                If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my area cost maybe
                $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper per gallon than a
                30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of a 3 quart kit. And
                available small quantities retail with no shipping charges. A lot of
                times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I still find plenty of
                used for epoxy.
                --- In Michalak@y..., Sakari Aaltonen <sakari@a...> wrote:
                > Richard Spelling wrote
                > > I've seen that, but do you really save any money? Assume you use
                the same
                > > amount on the joint, how much is the PL Premium per gallon? (or
                oz, or
                > > liter, or whatever) I know it comes in tubes, but if you are going
                to
                > > compare it with epoxy we should compare the unit prices.
                > >
                > > Probably easier to apply, though.
                >
                > I tried some glue of this sort recently (comes in a tube, is applied
                > with a pistol-like handle). The package stated that it was
                impervious
                > to seawater, which sounded good. But I gave up on it when I found
                out
                > that I couldn't paint it. Couldn't even sand it.
                >
                >
                > Sakari Aaltonen
              • david@simplicityboats.com
                I actually am most sold on the chine log application of PL, the other is entirely experimental right now, and you re right cost savings might not be there in
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 7, 2002
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                  I actually am most sold on the chine log application of PL, the other is entirely experimental right now, and you're right cost savings might not be there in comparison with epoxy and glass. Only ease of use - but I don't know yet if they are at all comperable in strength.
                      But you were asking about powdered glue....
                  David
                  www.simplicityboats.com     
                        ~~~/^\
                             /      \
                           /         /
                         /_____/
                    _______ /___/
                    \__________/
                             \/     
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:46 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Michalak] New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s

                  I've seen that, but do you really save any money? Assume you use the same
                  amount on the joint, how much is the PL Premium per gallon? (or oz, or
                  liter, or whatever) I know it comes in tubes, but if you are going to
                  compare it with epoxy we should compare the unit prices.

                  Probably easier to apply, though.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <david@...>
                  To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 9:31 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Michalak] New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s


                  Steve,
                      Herb McLeod turned me on to PL Premium - a polyurethane construction
                  adhesive available at places like Home Depot. Related to 3M 5200 but much
                  less expensive. I know Herb built the prototype AF3 with it. I have an
                  assortment of info about it on my site. Here Dave Colpits made a Kayak with
                  it 6 yrs ago.
                  http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/pl_testimonials.html

                  This is an overview of the stuff....
                  http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/pl_premium.htm

                  I'm in the process of running some tests on alternative stitch and glue
                  joints with it here.
                  http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/jointtest.html

                  But using it in chine log construction is pretty tried and true, and a lot
                  easier to use than powdered glue - no mixing required

                  Good luck..

                  David Beede

                  www.simplicityboats.com
                        ~~~/^\
                             /      \
                           /         /
                         /_____/
                    _______ /___/
                    \__________/
                             \/
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: S. Burton
                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:42 AM
                    Subject: [Michalak] New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s


                    Hello all,

                    Just sent for my AF3 plans after checking out all my options for a week or
                    so, and I'm very excited to begin construction!

                    I have some questions, apologies if they have been asked recently.

                    What is my likely budget to be both in cost and amount of epoxy?

                    Assuming that I'll glass the entire boat, what quantity and cost for
                    fibreglass (tape, resin, etc.)?

                    Having read Payson where he extols the virtues of "powdered glue" over
                    epoxy, in 1983, does this still hold true?  Any good reason not to use
                    powdered glue in place of epoxy, except for fileting?

                    What is the likely lifespan of the boat if I use plain old external
                  plywood
                    instead of marine?  The cost is so much higher for the marine.

                    What length shaft for the outboard?  What motors have others been using?

                    Anyone using a balance lug rig for this boat?  I think I'd really like to
                  do
                    that, I'm most familiar with that rig.

                    thanks in advance for any answers, and please stop me from making a big
                    mistake if you think that I'm heading that way with any of this.

                      -  Steve Burton


                          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                ADVERTISEMENT



                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                • rnlocnil
                  ANyone know how strong this stuff sticks to epoxy? (Just to keep it all clear, I am talking about PL Premium Construction Adhesive). I ve satisfied myself that
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 7, 2002
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                    ANyone know how strong this stuff sticks to epoxy? (Just to keep it
                    all clear, I am talking about PL Premium Construction Adhesive). I've
                    satisfied myself that it's strong enough to hold a skeg on a
                    fiberglass and epoxy bottom, but I don't know just how strong it is. I
                    generally use PL most times I'm sticking wood to wood.
                    --- In Michalak@y..., "david@s..." <david@s...> wrote:
                    > I actually am most sold on the chine log application of PL,
                    snip
                  • shoalwater1
                    ... maybe $2.75, so that s $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper per gallon than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of a 3 quart kit. And available
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 7, 2002
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                      >>If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my area cost
                      maybe $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper per gallon
                      than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of a 3 quart
                      kit. And available small quantities retail with no shipping charges.
                      A lot of times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I still find
                      plenty of used for epoxy.<<

                      OK, excellent data. Now I'm getting closer to a decision on
                      adhesives. So far no one has spoken up much for powdered glue, so I
                      probably won't persue that option

                      So specifically, how much epoxy would I likely use in constructing an
                      AF3? My plans havent yet arrived, so excuse me if the plans include
                      an estimate.

                      What I'm looking for here is for some actual quantity figures from
                      somebody who has built the AF3. Any then how much tape.

                      thanks very much!

                      Steve Burton
                    • pibracing
                      When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and he said 1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should get you started.I used PL on
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
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                        When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and he said
                        1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should get you
                        started.I used PL on my AF 4 and I loved it.I like the fact that you
                        can just pick up the tube and squirt it where you need it and not have
                        to mix up a batch and guess at how much you will need and you will
                        have a lot less waste with the Pl.I was really surprised how strong
                        the PL1 was when I messed up on a bottom strip and tried to remove it
                        and a large chunk of plywood came with it.The PL1 is some very strong
                        stuff.




                        --- In Michalak@y..., "shoalwater1" <sburton58@a...> wrote:
                        > >>If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my area cost
                        > maybe $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper per gallon
                        > than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of a 3 quart
                        > kit. And available small quantities retail with no shipping charges.
                        > A lot of times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I still find
                        > plenty of used for epoxy.<<
                        >
                        > OK, excellent data. Now I'm getting closer to a decision on
                        > adhesives. So far no one has spoken up much for powdered glue, so I
                        > probably won't persue that option
                        >
                        > So specifically, how much epoxy would I likely use in constructing an
                        > AF3? My plans havent yet arrived, so excuse me if the plans include
                        > an estimate.
                        >
                        > What I'm looking for here is for some actual quantity figures from
                        > somebody who has built the AF3. Any then how much tape.
                        >
                        > thanks very much!
                        >
                        > Steve Burton
                      • rnlocnil
                        One thing to keep in mind is that in hot and humid weather the tube may clog up if you don t use it for a few days, or faster if you don t cap it. I find if I
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
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                          One thing to keep in mind is that in hot and humid weather the tube
                          may clog up if you don't use it for a few days, or faster if you don't
                          cap it. I find if I put the largest screw that will fit in the hole in
                          the nozzle and then wrap over it with Saran wrap or a disposable glove
                          finger and a rubber band that it helps a lot. But don't expect to go
                          back after a month or two and not have a struggle.
                          (PL Premium Construction adhesive)
                        • lulalake_1999
                          Question about PL, I have esed it in house construction, nailing studs to pads etc., oh yeah it is strong stuff, however is there, or what do you do about the
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
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                            Question about PL,

                            I have esed it in house construction, nailing studs to pads etc., oh
                            yeah it is strong stuff, however is there, or what do you do about
                            the flexibility issue?

                            Epoxy is rock hard (More or less) where PL is still felxible after
                            final cure.

                            How do ya'll address that?

                            Thanks

                            Jules


                            --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                            > When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and he
                            said
                            > 1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should get
                            you
                            > started.I used PL on my AF 4 and I loved it.I like the fact that
                            you
                            > can just pick up the tube and squirt it where you need it and not
                            have
                            > to mix up a batch and guess at how much you will need and you will
                            > have a lot less waste with the Pl.I was really surprised how strong
                            > the PL1 was when I messed up on a bottom strip and tried to remove
                            it
                            > and a large chunk of plywood came with it.The PL1 is some very
                            strong
                            > stuff.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Michalak@y..., "shoalwater1" <sburton58@a...> wrote:
                            > > >>If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my area
                            cost
                            > > maybe $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper per
                            gallon
                            > > than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of a 3
                            quart
                            > > kit. And available small quantities retail with no shipping
                            charges.
                            > > A lot of times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I still
                            find
                            > > plenty of used for epoxy.<<
                            > >
                            > > OK, excellent data. Now I'm getting closer to a decision on
                            > > adhesives. So far no one has spoken up much for powdered glue,
                            so I
                            > > probably won't persue that option
                            > >
                            > > So specifically, how much epoxy would I likely use in
                            constructing an
                            > > AF3? My plans havent yet arrived, so excuse me if the plans
                            include
                            > > an estimate.
                            > >
                            > > What I'm looking for here is for some actual quantity figures
                            from
                            > > somebody who has built the AF3. Any then how much tape.
                            > >
                            > > thanks very much!
                            > >
                            > > Steve Burton
                          • boatsfordan
                            Re; Epoxy, I will have to differ with the statement that epoxy is rock hard. It is very tough and hard to sand but not brittle at all. In fact there is concern
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
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                              Re; Epoxy,

                              I will have to differ with the statement that epoxy is rock hard. It
                              is very tough and hard to sand but not brittle at all. In fact there
                              is concern in some circles that epoxy gets too soft in hot climates
                              to be dependable and painting a wood-epoxy boat with dark colors is
                              discouraged by these persons.

                              I think epoxy is the greatest thing that has come along for amateur
                              builders and has proven its self. Like any material you have to be
                              aware of its limitations.

                              So far I have used a gallon and a half of epoxy on my AF3 and I am
                              not quite done. I taped and epoxied the chines but did not glass the
                              whole bottom and don't intend to.

                              I have to agree with comments that there is a fair amount of waste
                              when mixing small batches of epoxy.

                              Dan F.,
                              Hemet, CA
                            • pibracing
                              The PL construction adhesive is not flexible at all once it dries.The PL crack sealer stays flexible but not the construction adhesive.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                The PL construction adhesive is not flexible at all once it dries.The
                                PL crack sealer stays flexible but not the construction adhesive.



                                --- In Michalak@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
                                > Question about PL,
                                >
                                > I have esed it in house construction, nailing studs to pads etc., oh
                                > yeah it is strong stuff, however is there, or what do you do about
                                > the flexibility issue?
                                >
                                > Epoxy is rock hard (More or less) where PL is still felxible after
                                > final cure.
                                >
                                > How do ya'll address that?
                                >
                                > Thanks
                                >
                                > Jules
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                > > When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and he
                                > said
                                > > 1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should get
                                > you
                                > > started.I used PL on my AF 4 and I loved it.I like the fact that
                                > you
                                > > can just pick up the tube and squirt it where you need it and not
                                > have
                                > > to mix up a batch and guess at how much you will need and you will
                                > > have a lot less waste with the Pl.I was really surprised how strong
                                > > the PL1 was when I messed up on a bottom strip and tried to remove
                                > it
                                > > and a large chunk of plywood came with it.The PL1 is some very
                                > strong
                                > > stuff.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In Michalak@y..., "shoalwater1" <sburton58@a...> wrote:
                                > > > >>If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my area
                                > cost
                                > > > maybe $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper per
                                > gallon
                                > > > than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of a 3
                                > quart
                                > > > kit. And available small quantities retail with no shipping
                                > charges.
                                > > > A lot of times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I still
                                > find
                                > > > plenty of used for epoxy.<<
                                > > >
                                > > > OK, excellent data. Now I'm getting closer to a decision on
                                > > > adhesives. So far no one has spoken up much for powdered glue,
                                > so I
                                > > > probably won't persue that option
                                > > >
                                > > > So specifically, how much epoxy would I likely use in
                                > constructing an
                                > > > AF3? My plans havent yet arrived, so excuse me if the plans
                                > include
                                > > > an estimate.
                                > > >
                                > > > What I'm looking for here is for some actual quantity figures
                                > from
                                > > > somebody who has built the AF3. Any then how much tape.
                                > > >
                                > > > thanks very much!
                                > > >
                                > > > Steve Burton
                              • lulalake_1999
                                Hmmm. . I seem to remember that I could put a fingernail mark in PL construction adhesive (PL 400) months after it was put down. Unlike West epoxy which won t
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
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                                  Hmmm. .
                                  I seem to remember that I could put a fingernail mark in PL
                                  construction adhesive (PL 400) months after it was put down. Unlike
                                  West epoxy which won't take a fingernail mark sfter a couple of
                                  hours.

                                  Perhaps there's a different number that you are speaking about? or
                                  perhaps heat is a factor? It was pretty hot in the structure, an
                                  outbuilding.

                                  --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                  > The PL construction adhesive is not flexible at all once it
                                  dries.The
                                  > PL crack sealer stays flexible but not the construction adhesive.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Michalak@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
                                  > > Question about PL,
                                  > >
                                  > > I have esed it in house construction, nailing studs to pads
                                  etc., oh
                                  > > yeah it is strong stuff, however is there, or what do you do
                                  about
                                  > > the flexibility issue?
                                  > >
                                  > > Epoxy is rock hard (More or less) where PL is still felxible
                                  after
                                  > > final cure.
                                  > >
                                  > > How do ya'll address that?
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks
                                  > >
                                  > > Jules
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                  > > > When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and
                                  he
                                  > > said
                                  > > > 1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should
                                  get
                                  > > you
                                  > > > started.I used PL on my AF 4 and I loved it.I like the fact
                                  that
                                  > > you
                                  > > > can just pick up the tube and squirt it where you need it and
                                  not
                                  > > have
                                  > > > to mix up a batch and guess at how much you will need and you
                                  will
                                  > > > have a lot less waste with the Pl.I was really surprised how
                                  strong
                                  > > > the PL1 was when I messed up on a bottom strip and tried to
                                  remove
                                  > > it
                                  > > > and a large chunk of plywood came with it.The PL1 is some very
                                  > > strong
                                  > > > stuff.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In Michalak@y..., "shoalwater1" <sburton58@a...> wrote:
                                  > > > > >>If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my area
                                  > > cost
                                  > > > > maybe $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper per
                                  > > gallon
                                  > > > > than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of a
                                  3
                                  > > quart
                                  > > > > kit. And available small quantities retail with no shipping
                                  > > charges.
                                  > > > > A lot of times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I
                                  still
                                  > > find
                                  > > > > plenty of used for epoxy.<<
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > OK, excellent data. Now I'm getting closer to a decision on
                                  > > > > adhesives. So far no one has spoken up much for powdered
                                  glue,
                                  > > so I
                                  > > > > probably won't persue that option
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > So specifically, how much epoxy would I likely use in
                                  > > constructing an
                                  > > > > AF3? My plans havent yet arrived, so excuse me if the plans
                                  > > include
                                  > > > > an estimate.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > What I'm looking for here is for some actual quantity
                                  figures
                                  > > from
                                  > > > > somebody who has built the AF3. Any then how much tape.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > thanks very much!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Steve Burton
                                • lewisboats
                                  The PL hundreds are nothing like PL Premium. I made the same mistake. Pl Premium is much thinner, stickier and stronger when cured. Get some on you and let it
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    The PL hundreds are nothing like PL Premium. I made the same mistake.
                                    Pl Premium is much thinner, stickier and stronger when cured. Get
                                    some on you and let it cure and nothing but sluffing the skin off
                                    will get it off. Glue 2 pieces of ply together and the plies will
                                    part before the glue does. Sanding is like sanding wood. It cuts with
                                    a sharp blade pretty well though.

                                    Steve

                                    --- In Michalak@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
                                    > Hmmm. .
                                    > I seem to remember that I could put a fingernail mark in PL
                                    > construction adhesive (PL 400) months after it was put down. Unlike
                                    > West epoxy which won't take a fingernail mark sfter a couple of
                                    > hours.
                                    >
                                    > Perhaps there's a different number that you are speaking about? or
                                    > perhaps heat is a factor? It was pretty hot in the structure, an
                                    > outbuilding.
                                    >
                                    > --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                    > > The PL construction adhesive is not flexible at all once it
                                    > dries.The
                                    > > PL crack sealer stays flexible but not the construction adhesive.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Michalak@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > Question about PL,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I have esed it in house construction, nailing studs to pads
                                    > etc., oh
                                    > > > yeah it is strong stuff, however is there, or what do you do
                                    > about
                                    > > > the flexibility issue?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Epoxy is rock hard (More or less) where PL is still felxible
                                    > after
                                    > > > final cure.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > How do ya'll address that?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Jules
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                    > > > > When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and
                                    > he
                                    > > > said
                                    > > > > 1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should
                                    > get
                                    > > > you
                                    > > > > started.I used PL on my AF 4 and I loved it.I like the fact
                                    > that
                                    > > > you
                                    > > > > can just pick up the tube and squirt it where you need it and
                                    > not
                                    > > > have
                                    > > > > to mix up a batch and guess at how much you will need and you
                                    > will
                                    > > > > have a lot less waste with the Pl.I was really surprised how
                                    > strong
                                    > > > > the PL1 was when I messed up on a bottom strip and tried to
                                    > remove
                                    > > > it
                                    > > > > and a large chunk of plywood came with it.The PL1 is some
                                    very
                                    > > > strong
                                    > > > > stuff.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In Michalak@y..., "shoalwater1" <sburton58@a...> wrote:
                                    > > > > > >>If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my
                                    area
                                    > > > cost
                                    > > > > > maybe $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper
                                    per
                                    > > > gallon
                                    > > > > > than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of
                                    a
                                    > 3
                                    > > > quart
                                    > > > > > kit. And available small quantities retail with no shipping
                                    > > > charges.
                                    > > > > > A lot of times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I
                                    > still
                                    > > > find
                                    > > > > > plenty of used for epoxy.<<
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > OK, excellent data. Now I'm getting closer to a decision
                                    on
                                    > > > > > adhesives. So far no one has spoken up much for powdered
                                    > glue,
                                    > > > so I
                                    > > > > > probably won't persue that option
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > So specifically, how much epoxy would I likely use in
                                    > > > constructing an
                                    > > > > > AF3? My plans havent yet arrived, so excuse me if the
                                    plans
                                    > > > include
                                    > > > > > an estimate.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > What I'm looking for here is for some actual quantity
                                    > figures
                                    > > > from
                                    > > > > > somebody who has built the AF3. Any then how much tape.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > thanks very much!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Steve Burton
                                  • rnlocnil
                                    THis is why I keep whining to the point of obnoxiousness when people get tired of specifying what they are really using. (which in my case is PL Premium
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      THis is why I keep whining to the point of obnoxiousness when people
                                      get tired of specifying what they are really using. (which in my case
                                      is PL Premium Construction Adhesive) I am not a salesman, tho. I bet
                                      someone else makes something similar that performs approximately as
                                      well, but we just don't know what it is. It's been amply demonstrated
                                      that there are plenty of vaguely similar products that don't work well
                                      enough.
                                      --- In Michalak@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
                                      > The PL hundreds are nothing like PL Premium. I made the same
                                      mistake.
                                      snip
                                    • ravenouspi
                                      ... I agree. I used PL premium in part for my AF4. It is a little more flexible than epoxy, but it is certainly not something one can force apart by hand or
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In Michalak@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
                                        > The PL hundreds are nothing like PL Premium.

                                        I agree. I used PL premium in part for my AF4. It is a little more
                                        flexible than epoxy, but it is certainly not something one can force
                                        apart by hand or thumbnail after a few days cure. It isn't epoxy,
                                        but it is STRONG glue. I think it's perfect for chine log
                                        construction. And it is definitely easier to use in small
                                        quantities. Also, I stuck a 8p nail in the end of a tube in
                                        November and finished using it in April without problems (and I live
                                        in a hotter, humid climate). I did have to pick out a little hard
                                        clump to get it flowing again. I hear people swear by putting half-
                                        used tubes in the freezer for long storage periods, but I haven't
                                        tried that. Anyway, seems like good stuff for small economical
                                        boatbuilding.
                                        Rav
                                      • lulalake_1999
                                        Hmmmm! Thanks for your reply. I m going to try some this week. Thanks again Jules ... mistake. ... with ... Unlike ... or ... adhesive. ... and ... should ...
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 8, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hmmmm!

                                          Thanks for your reply. I'm going to try some this week.
                                          Thanks again

                                          Jules

                                          --- In Michalak@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
                                          > The PL hundreds are nothing like PL Premium. I made the same
                                          mistake.
                                          > Pl Premium is much thinner, stickier and stronger when cured. Get
                                          > some on you and let it cure and nothing but sluffing the skin off
                                          > will get it off. Glue 2 pieces of ply together and the plies will
                                          > part before the glue does. Sanding is like sanding wood. It cuts
                                          with
                                          > a sharp blade pretty well though.
                                          >
                                          > Steve
                                          >
                                          > --- In Michalak@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
                                          > > Hmmm. .
                                          > > I seem to remember that I could put a fingernail mark in PL
                                          > > construction adhesive (PL 400) months after it was put down.
                                          Unlike
                                          > > West epoxy which won't take a fingernail mark sfter a couple of
                                          > > hours.
                                          > >
                                          > > Perhaps there's a different number that you are speaking about?
                                          or
                                          > > perhaps heat is a factor? It was pretty hot in the structure, an
                                          > > outbuilding.
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                          > > > The PL construction adhesive is not flexible at all once it
                                          > > dries.The
                                          > > > PL crack sealer stays flexible but not the construction
                                          adhesive.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In Michalak@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > > > > Question about PL,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I have esed it in house construction, nailing studs to pads
                                          > > etc., oh
                                          > > > > yeah it is strong stuff, however is there, or what do you do
                                          > > about
                                          > > > > the flexibility issue?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Epoxy is rock hard (More or less) where PL is still felxible
                                          > > after
                                          > > > > final cure.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > How do ya'll address that?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thanks
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jules
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                          > > > > > When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question
                                          and
                                          > > he
                                          > > > > said
                                          > > > > > 1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that
                                          should
                                          > > get
                                          > > > > you
                                          > > > > > started.I used PL on my AF 4 and I loved it.I like the
                                          fact
                                          > > that
                                          > > > > you
                                          > > > > > can just pick up the tube and squirt it where you need it
                                          and
                                          > > not
                                          > > > > have
                                          > > > > > to mix up a batch and guess at how much you will need and
                                          you
                                          > > will
                                          > > > > > have a lot less waste with the Pl.I was really surprised
                                          how
                                          > > strong
                                          > > > > > the PL1 was when I messed up on a bottom strip and tried
                                          to
                                          > > remove
                                          > > > > it
                                          > > > > > and a large chunk of plywood came with it.The PL1 is some
                                          > very
                                          > > > > strong
                                          > > > > > stuff.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In Michalak@y..., "shoalwater1" <sburton58@a...> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > >>If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my
                                          > area
                                          > > > > cost
                                          > > > > > > maybe $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper
                                          > per
                                          > > > > gallon
                                          > > > > > > than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price
                                          of
                                          > a
                                          > > 3
                                          > > > > quart
                                          > > > > > > kit. And available small quantities retail with no
                                          shipping
                                          > > > > charges.
                                          > > > > > > A lot of times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I
                                          > > still
                                          > > > > find
                                          > > > > > > plenty of used for epoxy.<<
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > OK, excellent data. Now I'm getting closer to a
                                          decision
                                          > on
                                          > > > > > > adhesives. So far no one has spoken up much for
                                          powdered
                                          > > glue,
                                          > > > > so I
                                          > > > > > > probably won't persue that option
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > So specifically, how much epoxy would I likely use in
                                          > > > > constructing an
                                          > > > > > > AF3? My plans havent yet arrived, so excuse me if the
                                          > plans
                                          > > > > include
                                          > > > > > > an estimate.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > What I'm looking for here is for some actual quantity
                                          > > figures
                                          > > > > from
                                          > > > > > > somebody who has built the AF3. Any then how much tape.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > thanks very much!
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Steve Burton
                                        • lewisboats
                                          That and it sticks to epoxy like glue(G), Really!!! I stuck a skeg on with PL (PREMIUM) on my son s ScoutCanu and if I try to bend it, the bottom panel flexes
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            That and it sticks to epoxy like glue(G), Really!!! I stuck a skeg on
                                            with PL (PREMIUM) on my son's ScoutCanu and if I try to bend it, the
                                            bottom panel flexes rather than the skeg. This is some tenatious
                                            stuff. The only detractor is the fact that it foams while curing,
                                            sometimes. It likes moisture, so a spray of water on the contact
                                            surfaces is welcome, though not really needed. Because of the foaming
                                            it is a little difficult to judge how much is "enough", but it trims
                                            off easily enough, with a sharp blade. Personally, I think that once
                                            the stitch and glue of the hull is done, PL is the way to go for
                                            attaching every thing else. My only problem is getting the tubes to
                                            travel between jobs. Getting a good enough seal to keep it from
                                            curing after using a half tube is difficult. Might try the freezer
                                            thing, but the wife will probably freak. I used it to good effect
                                            here: http://lewisboatworks.com/html/ScoutCanu7_a.htm on the skeg to
                                            my son's B'day present. I also used it to attach the rubrails, decks
                                            and keel strip, along with the spreaders. Kind of an Instant Boat
                                            combined with stitch and glue. It worked very well though!

                                            Steve

                                            --- In Michalak@y..., "ravenouspi" <ravenous@g...> wrote:
                                            > --- In Michalak@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
                                            > > The PL hundreds are nothing like PL Premium.
                                            >
                                            > I agree. I used PL premium in part for my AF4. It is a little more
                                            > flexible than epoxy, but it is certainly not something one can
                                            force
                                            > apart by hand or thumbnail after a few days cure. It isn't epoxy,
                                            > but it is STRONG glue. snip
                                          • lewisboats
                                            Yep, I took the plunge and did the dot com thing. Still got the other one though, and will update both, till the contract is up. I found that the long
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Yep, I took the plunge and did the "dot com" thing. Still got the
                                              other one though, and will update both, till the contract is up. I
                                              found that the long address made for too much wrap. Besides, I like
                                              the 250 meg breathing room, plus email and other stuff. Anybody need
                                              some picture space?

                                              Steve.


                                              >"http://lewisboatworks.com/html/ScoutCanu7_a.htm on the skeg to...."
                                              Snip..
                                            • pibracing
                                              You must have used different stuff than I did.The stuff I used was like peanut butter and does not foam up.I think there is a liquid PL that comes in a bottle
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                You must have used different stuff than I did.The stuff I used was
                                                like peanut butter and does not foam up.I think there is a liquid PL
                                                that comes in a bottle that will foam up like that.The stuff I used
                                                comes in a caulking tube and goes in a caulking gun and the label is
                                                red,black,yellow.The label on my tube right here in front of me says
                                                Polyurethane Premium Construction Adhesive and PL in big letters.



                                                --- In Michalak@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
                                                > That and it sticks to epoxy like glue(G), Really!!! I stuck a skeg on
                                                > with PL (PREMIUM) on my son's ScoutCanu and if I try to bend it, the
                                                > bottom panel flexes rather than the skeg. This is some tenatious
                                                > stuff. The only detractor is the fact that it foams while curing,
                                                > sometimes. It likes moisture, so a spray of water on the contact
                                                > surfaces is welcome, though not really needed. Because of the foaming
                                                > it is a little difficult to judge how much is "enough", but it trims
                                                > off easily enough, with a sharp blade. Personally, I think that once
                                                > the stitch and glue of the hull is done, PL is the way to go for
                                                > attaching every thing else. My only problem is getting the tubes to
                                                > travel between jobs. Getting a good enough seal to keep it from
                                                > curing after using a half tube is difficult. Might try the freezer
                                                > thing, but the wife will probably freak. I used it to good effect
                                                > here: http://lewisboatworks.com/html/ScoutCanu7_a.htm on the skeg to
                                                > my son's B'day present. I also used it to attach the rubrails, decks
                                                > and keel strip, along with the spreaders. Kind of an Instant Boat
                                                > combined with stitch and glue. It worked very well though!
                                                >
                                                > Steve
                                                >
                                                > --- In Michalak@y..., "ravenouspi" <ravenous@g...> wrote:
                                                > > --- In Michalak@y..., "lewisboats" <numbaoneman@b...> wrote:
                                                > > > The PL hundreds are nothing like PL Premium.
                                                > >
                                                > > I agree. I used PL premium in part for my AF4. It is a little more
                                                > > flexible than epoxy, but it is certainly not something one can
                                                > force
                                                > > apart by hand or thumbnail after a few days cure. It isn't epoxy,
                                                > > but it is STRONG glue. snip
                                              • David Beede
                                                As others have pointed out PL Construction is quite a different beast from PL 400 (or an other hundreds) if you compare labels PL Prem Construction has
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  As others have pointed out PL Construction is quite a different beast from PL 400 (or an other hundreds) if you compare labels PL Prem Construction has something like 3% VOCs (volitile organic compounds) while the "hundreds" are more like 31% VOC - so it's denser and has more solids to start with and probably doesn't outgas as much as the other.
                                                   
                                                  As far as sealing tubes. I find a piece of plastic wrap over the tip, twist it around the nozzel and hold that in place with a twist tie. I also make sure I squeeze a little glob out into the plastic, per MIke G. That gives you something to grab when you open it and usually any glue cured in the end comes out with it letting it run free again.
                                                   
                                                  If it seriously cures in the nozzel often a long deck screw - 3 inches - driven into the nozzel then pulled with vice grips will save the tube.
                                                   
                                                  David
                                                  www.simplicityboats.com     
                                                        ~~~/^\
                                                             /      \
                                                           /         /
                                                         /_____/
                                                    _______ /___/
                                                    \__________/
                                                             \/     
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 9:37 PM
                                                  Subject: [Michalak] Re: New AF3 Builder w/ ?'s

                                                  Hmmm. .
                                                  I seem to remember that I could put a fingernail mark in PL
                                                  construction adhesive (PL 400) months after it was put down. Unlike
                                                  West epoxy which won't take a fingernail mark sfter a couple of
                                                  hours.

                                                  Perhaps there's a different number that you are speaking about? or
                                                  perhaps heat is a factor? It was pretty hot in the structure, an
                                                  outbuilding.

                                                  --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                                  > The PL construction adhesive is not flexible at all once it
                                                  dries.The
                                                  > PL crack sealer stays flexible but not the construction adhesive.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In Michalak@y..., "lulalake_1999" <lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
                                                  > > Question about PL,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I have esed it in house construction, nailing studs to pads
                                                  etc., oh
                                                  > > yeah it is strong stuff, however is there, or what do you do
                                                  about
                                                  > > the flexibility issue?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Epoxy is rock hard (More or less) where PL is still felxible
                                                  after
                                                  > > final cure.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > How do ya'll address that?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Thanks
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Jules
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                                  > > > When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and
                                                  he
                                                  > > said
                                                  > > > 1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should
                                                  get
                                                  > > you
                                                  > > > started.I used PL on my AF 4 and I loved it.I like the fact
                                                  that
                                                  > > you
                                                  > > > can just pick up the tube and squirt it where you need it and
                                                  not
                                                  > > have
                                                  > > > to mix up a batch and guess at how much you will need and you
                                                  will
                                                  > > > have a lot less waste with the Pl.I was really surprised how
                                                  strong
                                                  > > > the PL1 was when I messed up on a bottom strip and tried to
                                                  remove
                                                  > > it
                                                  > > > and a large chunk of plywood came with it.The PL1 is some very
                                                  > > strong
                                                  > > > stuff.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In Michalak@y..., "shoalwater1" <sburton58@a...> wrote:
                                                  > > > > >>If I'm not mistaken, the tubes are 10.5 oz, and in my area
                                                  > > cost
                                                  > > > > maybe $2.75, so that's $33.50 a gallon, a little cheaper per
                                                  > > gallon
                                                  > > > > than a 30 gallon kit of Raka, or about 60% of the price of a
                                                  3
                                                  > > quart
                                                  > > > > kit. And available small quantities retail with no shipping
                                                  > > charges.
                                                  > > > > A lot of times the stuff is more convenient, too, tho I
                                                  still
                                                  > > find
                                                  > > > > plenty of used for epoxy.<<
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > OK, excellent data.  Now I'm getting closer to a decision on
                                                  > > > > adhesives.  So far no one has spoken up much for powdered
                                                  glue,
                                                  > > so I
                                                  > > > > probably won't persue that option
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > So specifically, how much epoxy would I likely use in
                                                  > > constructing an
                                                  > > > > AF3?  My plans havent yet arrived, so excuse me if the plans
                                                  > > include
                                                  > > > > an estimate.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > What I'm looking for here is for some actual quantity
                                                  figures
                                                  > > from
                                                  > > > > somebody who has built the AF3.  Any then how much tape.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > thanks very much!
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Steve Burton



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                                                • lewisboats
                                                  That IS the stuff. It will foam under various circumstances and it is much thinner than the hundred versions of Pl, such as PL 400. To see it foaming in
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    That IS the stuff. It will foam under various circumstances and it is
                                                    much thinner than the "hundred" versions of Pl, such as PL 400. To
                                                    see it foaming in action look here:
                                                    http://lewisboatworks.com/html/ScoutCanu7_a.htm
                                                    The rear of the skeg, where it goes into the keel piece. There is a
                                                    golfball sized foam out of PL, and also just under the forward most
                                                    clamp. Those are not squeezout because it took about 10 minutes
                                                    before they started to show up, and they kept getting bigger and
                                                    bigger and bigger. I had to wipe the bubbles away 3 separate times
                                                    before it finally cured enough to stop foaming. The glue likes to
                                                    foam if it is 'worked' or disturbed. If you lay out a bead and then
                                                    spread it to flatten the bead, watch and see if the stuff doesn't
                                                    start to foam a little. I put a good 1/2" diameter bead down into the
                                                    slot and worked the skeg back and forth a little as I set it
                                                    in...hence the foaming.

                                                    Steve

                                                    --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                                    > You must have used different stuff than I did.The stuff I used was
                                                    > like peanut butter and does not foam up.I think there is a liquid PL
                                                    > that comes in a bottle that will foam up like that.The stuff I used
                                                    > comes in a caulking tube and goes in a caulking gun and the label is
                                                    > red,black,yellow.The label on my tube right here in front of me says
                                                    > Polyurethane Premium Construction Adhesive and PL in big letters.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                  • shoalwater1
                                                    ... THIS is the answer that I was looking for! Thank you very much! I now have a very good idea of a budget. I intend to use the PL Concrete adhesive as much
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
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                                                      --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                                      >>When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and he
                                                      >>said1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should
                                                      >>get you started.<<

                                                      THIS is the answer that I was looking for!

                                                      Thank you very much! I now have a very good idea of a budget.

                                                      I intend to use the PL Concrete adhesive as much as seems wise.

                                                      thanks,

                                                      Steve Burton
                                                    • pibracing
                                                      I could have got away with 1/2 gallon of epoxy on my AF4.I only taped the bottom seems and chine logs.I used PL concrete sealer on all the inside seems.I did
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Sep 9, 2002
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                                                        I could have got away with 1/2 gallon of epoxy on my AF4.I only taped
                                                        the bottom seems and chine logs.I used PL concrete sealer on all the
                                                        inside seems.I did the same thing on a Elegant Punt and it worked great.






                                                        --- In Michalak@y..., "shoalwater1" <sburton58@a...> wrote:
                                                        > --- In Michalak@y..., "pibracing" <mcerio02@t...> wrote:
                                                        > >>When I was building my AF4 I asked Jim that same question and he
                                                        > >>said1 gallon of epoxy and 50 yards of 3 inch tape.So that should
                                                        > >>get you started.<<
                                                        >
                                                        > THIS is the answer that I was looking for!
                                                        >
                                                        > Thank you very much! I now have a very good idea of a budget.
                                                        >
                                                        > I intend to use the PL Concrete adhesive as much as seems wise.
                                                        >
                                                        > thanks,
                                                        >
                                                        > Steve Burton
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