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Committed to an AF4B

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  • gdbg66a2000
    I ve been lurking and reading for quite some time and have finally ordered JM s plans and book to build an AF4 Breve. I figured it would be a good starter
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 28, 2007
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      I've been lurking and reading for quite some time and have finally
      ordered JM's plans and book to build an AF4 Breve. I figured it would
      be a good starter project for someone who has no boat building
      experience. I have owned 2 sailboats and kinda want to use this as a
      project to learn about building. Any experience or suggestions with
      this boat will be appreciated. I'm sure I'll be here asking allot of
      dumb questions from now on.

      William
    • vexatious2001
      ... Good first project. I built an AF4 in about 5 months as a first project. Advice (which I still don t follow): Measure THREE times and then cut. No dumb
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 29, 2007
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        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gdbg66a2000" <gdbg66a2000@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've been lurking and reading for quite some time and have finally
        > ordered JM's plans and book to build an AF4 Breve. I figured it would
        > be a good starter project for someone who has no boat building
        > experience. I have owned 2 sailboats and kinda want to use this as a
        > project to learn about building. Any experience or suggestions with
        > this boat will be appreciated. I'm sure I'll be here asking allot of
        > dumb questions from now on.
        >
        > William
        >


        Good "first project."

        I built an AF4 in about 5 months as a first project.

        Advice (which I still don't follow): Measure THREE times
        and then cut.

        No dumb questions around here.


        bye.


        Max
      • Rob Rohde-Szudy
        Well, I m the new owner of an AF4B built by another Midwestern boatbuilding addict. It looks like a pretty nice boat for what it is. Much bigger than it looks
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 1, 2007
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          Well, I'm the new owner of an AF4B built by another Midwestern boatbuilding addict. It looks like a pretty nice boat for what it is. Much bigger than it looks on paper! That said, I bet the regular AF4 handles better. That's a guess, though.

          --Rob


          ---------------------------------
          TV dinner still cooling?
          Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • gdbg66a2000
          Thanks Rob, (and all) I guess comitted could be a bit of a strong a word...Have ordered the plans and book and located a source of wood are probably more
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 2, 2007
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            Thanks Rob, (and all)

            I guess "comitted" could be a bit of a strong a word...Have ordered the
            plans and book and located a source of wood are probably more correct.
            Ultimately I want something with a sail in the 18'-20' range but I
            figured this boat would be a good, cheap learning experience. I am
            quite limited on building space also or would probably just go for the
            AF4.

            I am in a bit of a quandry here tho. The motor that I "think" I need
            for the AF4B probably isn't what I would want on an 20' trailer sailor.
            I think a 10HP short shaft would be appropriate for the AF4B but would
            probably want a 6HP long shaft for a sailboat. (weight being the
            biggest consideration).

            This boat isn't the "boat of my dreams" so I could learn on it, have
            fun with it for a season or 2, and then sell it or even give it away
            for what I'll have in it and no big deal. Problem is more with the
            trailer and motor. They will cost me more than the boat and if I gear
            for the AF4B the trailer and/or motor will either have to go with that
            boat or I will have to reinvest in a bigger trailer and different motor.

            Decisions Decisions :)
            William
          • Rob Rohde-Szudy
            Well, hold on a moment here. (Let me apologize right now for raising more questions!) On motors, You re right that you will probably want a different motor for
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 3, 2007
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              Well, hold on a moment here. (Let me apologize right now for raising more questions!)

              On motors, You're right that you will probably want a different motor for the sailboat, but it's not so much weight or shaft length. It's fuel consumption. Jim designs the sterns of most of his sailboats to accommodate the cheap and common short shaft motor. And assuming you're looking at old-school cheap motors, the weight won't be too different. Maybe 50 lbs versus 80ish lbs. That's about the difference between my 1954 Johnson 5.5 and my 1952 Johnson 12.

              But more importantly, if your ultimate goal is a sailboat, why not just build one? You can always use it as a low speed motor launch when you don't feel like sailing. I very often do this with the Light Schooner, though I might do it less often now that I have the AF4B.

              On top of that, there's the Michalak-recommended approach of building a little boat first, since it will almost always get more use than the big one even when you have both. The canoe/pirogue/dink/punt/rowboat can hang out on the car's roof all summer, ready to go at the drop of a hat. Let's face it, when you have a free hour, you're not going to hitch a trailer. But you may very well yank the little boat off the car for a short outing. The quicker and easier the setup, the more you use it. (Besides, I'm pretty sure that sailing skills improve fastest in the smallest boats. The effects of one's actions are immediately apparent.)

              Sometimes systematizing the questions helps. Michael Connelly and I have been poking around at a survey that would help people narrow in on what fits them best. If you're game, here's an abbreviated version:

              1. Your weather (Where do you live, anyway?)
              a. How many months of the year would it be safe and pleasant to get wet on the water?
              b. How many months of the year is the water frozen?
              c. Average number of rainy or cold unpleasant days during the boating season
              d. Average number of in-season days with wind under 5 mph
              e. Average number of in-season days wind 5-15 mph
              f. Average number of in-season days wind 15+ mph

              2. Local Water
              What kind of water is on your way home from work, or within a 5 minute detour?
              a. small lake
              b. large lake or ocean
              c. pond or open water in marshland
              d. river - what's the current or drop per mile?
              What kind of water is within a 30 minute drive of home?
              a. small lake
              b. large lake or ocean
              c. pond or open water in marshland
              d. river - what's the current or drop per mile?

              3. Free Time
              a. How much time can you use for boating on a weekday?
              b. How many weekdays could you pull this off in a month?
              c. How much time can you use for boating on a weekend day?
              d. How many weekends could you manage this each month?

              4. Family
              a. Who's coming along? (Include the dog, if applicable)
              b. Who will be waiting for you at home?

              5. Experience
              a. How much paddling have you done?
              b. Rowing?
              c. Sailing?
              d. Motorboating?

              This might seem like a lot of work, but it's a hell of a lot less work than building something only to realize a different boat would have been better. (Like I wish I'd known about the Core Sound 20 when I built the schooner. Damn...) It might very well precipitate some good advice from the group as well.

              --Rob


              Re: Committed to an AF4B
              Posted by: "gdbg66a2000" gdbg66a2000@... gdbg66a2000
              Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 12:14 pm ((PDT))

              Thanks Rob, (and all)

              I guess "comitted" could be a bit of a strong a word...Have ordered the
              plans and book and located a source of wood are probably more correct.
              Ultimately I want something with a sail in the 18'-20' range but I
              figured this boat would be a good, cheap learning experience. I am
              quite limited on building space also or would probably just go for the
              AF4.

              I am in a bit of a quandry here tho. The motor that I "think" I need
              for the AF4B probably isn't what I would want on an 20' trailer sailor.
              I think a 10HP short shaft would be appropriate for the AF4B but would
              probably want a 6HP long shaft for a sailboat. (weight being the
              biggest consideration).

              This boat isn't the "boat of my dreams" so I could learn on it, have
              fun with it for a season or 2, and then sell it or even give it away
              for what I'll have in it and no big deal. Problem is more with the
              trailer and motor. They will cost me more than the boat and if I gear
              for the AF4B the trailer and/or motor will either have to go with that
              boat or I will have to reinvest in a bigger trailer and different
              motor.

              Decisions Decisions :)
              William



              ---------------------------------
              Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
              in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gdbg66a2000
              All good points and I have been there with some of them. I live in S Colorado. Definetly not the sailing capital or the world! My only small lake, (with what
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 4, 2007
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                All good points and I have been there with some of them. I live in S
                Colorado. Definetly not the sailing capital or the world! My only
                small lake, (with what can be fluky winds on a moments notice), is
                about 10 mi away. My first sailboat was a a Hunter 23. A puppy's
                mother to rig so really limited me on an impromptu day out. Last boat
                was a WWP-15 which was 1 hr from house to sailing. Much better but
                small. They say there are 3 reasons to build a boat: 1) One lives in
                an area that there are no readily available/suitable boats for sale,
                2) One just can't get the features they want, 3) One just wants to
                have the "fun" of building. I pretty much fit all 3.

                Even cheap, older 2 strokes are hard to come by around here. I am
                actually looking towards a newer 4 stroke. (With an eye towards using
                it on my next boat). 55# for a 6HP Nissan and 100+ for a 10HP. I
                wouldn't consider a 6HP enough for the AF4B if the wind got up on my
                lake and 100# is allot on the transom of a small sailboat.

                Truthfully, On Duckworks, Paul Fishers "Galway" with bilge keel would
                be more what I might ultimately want, or something along that line,
                but having never built a boat I would be hesitant to undertake that
                project as a first boat. I also have a limitation of about 2000# on
                my tow vehicke too.

                Please keep the thoughts coming. It helps to have other ideas and
                oppinions.

                Regards~
                William

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Well, hold on a moment here. (Let me apologize right now for
                raising more questions!)
                >
                > On motors, You're right that you will probably want a different
                motor for the sailboat, but it's not so much weight or shaft length.
                It's fuel consumption. Jim designs the sterns of most of his
                sailboats to accommodate the cheap and common short shaft motor. And
                assuming you're looking at old-school cheap motors, the weight won't
                be too different. Maybe 50 lbs versus 80ish lbs. That's about the
                difference between my 1954 Johnson 5.5 and my 1952 Johnson 12.
                >
                > But more importantly, if your ultimate goal is a sailboat, why
                not just build one? You can always use it as a low speed motor launch
                when you don't feel like sailing. I very often do this with the Light
                Schooner, though I might do it less often now that I have the AF4B.
                >
                > On top of that, there's the Michalak-recommended approach of
                building a little boat first, since it will almost always get more
                use than the big one even when you have both. The
                canoe/pirogue/dink/punt/rowboat can hang out on the car's roof all
                summer, ready to go at the drop of a hat. Let's face it, when you
                have a free hour, you're not going to hitch a trailer. But you may
                very well yank the little boat off the car for a short outing. The
                quicker and easier the setup, the more you use it. (Besides, I'm
                pretty sure that sailing skills improve fastest in the smallest
                boats. The effects of one's actions are immediately apparent.)
                >
                > Sometimes systematizing the questions helps. Michael Connelly and
                I have been poking around at a survey that would help people narrow
                in on what fits them best. If you're game, here's an abbreviated
                version:
                >
                > 1. Your weather (Where do you live, anyway?)
                > a. How many months of the year would it be safe and pleasant
                to get wet on the water?
                > b. How many months of the year is the water frozen?
                > c. Average number of rainy or cold unpleasant days during the
                boating season
                > d. Average number of in-season days with wind under 5 mph
                > e. Average number of in-season days wind 5-15 mph
                > f. Average number of in-season days wind 15+ mph
                >
                > 2. Local Water
                > What kind of water is on your way home from work, or within a 5
                minute detour?
                > a. small lake
                > b. large lake or ocean
                > c. pond or open water in marshland
                > d. river - what's the current or drop per mile?
                > What kind of water is within a 30 minute drive of home?
                > a. small lake
                > b. large lake or ocean
                > c. pond or open water in marshland
                > d. river - what's the current or drop per mile?
                >
                > 3. Free Time
                > a. How much time can you use for boating on a weekday?
                > b. How many weekdays could you pull this off in a month?
                > c. How much time can you use for boating on a weekend day?
                > d. How many weekends could you manage this each month?
                >
                > 4. Family
                > a. Who's coming along? (Include the dog, if applicable)
                > b. Who will be waiting for you at home?
                >
                > 5. Experience
                > a. How much paddling have you done?
                > b. Rowing?
                > c. Sailing?
                > d. Motorboating?
                >
                > This might seem like a lot of work, but it's a hell of a lot less
                work than building something only to realize a different boat would
                have been better. (Like I wish I'd known about the Core Sound 20 when
                I built the schooner. Damn...) It might very well precipitate some
                good advice from the group as well.
                >
                > --Rob
                >
                >
                > Re: Committed to an AF4B
                > Posted by: "gdbg66a2000" gdbg66a2000@... gdbg66a2000
                > Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 12:14 pm ((PDT))
                >
                > Thanks Rob, (and all)
                >
                > I guess "comitted" could be a bit of a strong a word...Have ordered
                the
                > plans and book and located a source of wood are probably more
                correct.
                > Ultimately I want something with a sail in the 18'-20' range but I
                > figured this boat would be a good, cheap learning experience. I am
                > quite limited on building space also or would probably just go for
                the
                > AF4.
                >
                > I am in a bit of a quandry here tho. The motor that I "think" I
                need
                > for the AF4B probably isn't what I would want on an 20' trailer
                sailor.
                > I think a 10HP short shaft would be appropriate for the AF4B but
                would
                > probably want a 6HP long shaft for a sailboat. (weight being the
                > biggest consideration).
                >
                > This boat isn't the "boat of my dreams" so I could learn on it,
                have
                > fun with it for a season or 2, and then sell it or even give it
                away
                > for what I'll have in it and no big deal. Problem is more with the
                > trailer and motor. They will cost me more than the boat and if I
                gear
                > for the AF4B the trailer and/or motor will either have to go with
                that
                > boat or I will have to reinvest in a bigger trailer and different
                > motor.
                >
                > Decisions Decisions :)
                > William
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Rob Rohde-Szudy
                Hey William, Have you considered a canoe? Your location puts you quite close to some of the most beautiful canoeing in the world! And of course the canoe is
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 5, 2007
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                  Hey William,

                  Have you considered a canoe? Your location puts you quite close to some of the most beautiful canoeing in the world! And of course the canoe is easily the most boating experience for the money of any boat. It lives on the cartop all summer and you can throw it in almost any water from almost anywhere with little preparation. If you have bike you don't even need a shuttle car. Being from Wisconsin, I REALLY hate to admit I'm pretty new to the canoe. But it truly has much to recommend it.

                  But canoe sailing is of course not the same as sailing a larger boat. If you're hooked on sailing, build a sailboat. I would avoid anything very big, since sailing a big boat with fluky winds is damned frustrating. (What lake, out of curiosity?) The Galway looks quite heavy and you would not want ballast or bilge keels when the wind dies OR when trailering. Galway seems adapted for the big wind and waves of the British Channel, which is no suprise given where the designer comes from. But I think it would be a dull sailer on your lake. For a little lake with fluky wind and small waves, you want something light and easy to power. The lightness also lets you easily manipulate the trim by moving your body. With light wind one often needs to sit to lee to induce heel to get a boat going. You can't easily do that in a ballasted keel boat. If you did OK in a WWP-15, then I would not give up the advantages of a lightweight flattie. (Interior space, shallow draft, easy trailering,
                  easy construction, etc.)

                  Given your distance to the lake, you also need a FAST setup. I'd insist on a tabernacle even if the mast is pretty light, just so you can leave the rig all put-together. Your setup should be hop in the boat, raise mast and pin in place, clip on lazyjack and sheet, stick the rudder in place and clip the safety lanyard, jump out, unhook the stern tie-down(s). Then you're ready to launch - probably under 5 min. Further arguing for the lug rig, flexibility in the tabermacle (or mast) will be unimportant to a balanced lug rig. This rig also allows a shorter mast that folds down closer to within the length of the boat. The lug also seems relatively tolerant of fluky winds, though the junk might be better.

                  So I think your best choice might be an AF3 with a tabernacle and the lug rig option. (Maybe AF2 or one of the birdwatcher types if you want to sleep in it a lot, but I'd mock up the AF3 in cardboard before writing it off.) AF3 is small and light enough to row well in a calm and launch with no fuss at all. Any car could tow it. It's easy to build too, and has a cabin for experimenting with camping or stowing the boat paraphenalia out of the elements while it's sitting in your driveway. I think it should be pretty comparable to a WWP-15 but with a MUCH faster setup time. (Probably while you're in line for the ramp, with some practice.) If you REALLY want more space, I'd apply the same ideas to AF2.

                  BTW, it's not that I'm some kind of insanely devoted Michalak fan. He just knows the most about how to design a boat non-coastal people can get a lot of practical use out of. Coastal types seldom understand that you need different things on a little inland lake with fluky winds!

                  And all the above notwithstanding, think about a canoe, man!!! I bet you'd use it a lot even if you HAD your dream sailboat. Ultimately you'll probably want both.

                  --Rob


                  Re: Committed to an AF4B
                  Posted by: "gdbg66a2000" gdbg66a2000@... gdbg66a2000
                  Date: Wed Apr 4, 2007 8:41 am ((PDT))

                  All good points and I have been there with some of them. I live in S
                  Colorado. Definetly not the sailing capital or the world! My only
                  small lake, (with what can be fluky winds on a moments notice), is
                  about 10 mi away. My first sailboat was a a Hunter 23. A puppy's
                  mother to rig so really limited me on an impromptu day out. Last boat
                  was a WWP-15 which was 1 hr from house to sailing. Much better but
                  small. They say there are 3 reasons to build a boat: 1) One lives in
                  an area that there are no readily available/suitable boats for sale,
                  2) One just can't get the features they want, 3) One just wants to
                  have the "fun" of building. I pretty much fit all 3.

                  Even cheap, older 2 strokes are hard to come by around here. I am
                  actually looking towards a newer 4 stroke. (With an eye towards using
                  it on my next boat). 55# for a 6HP Nissan and 100+ for a 10HP. I
                  wouldn't consider a 6HP enough for the AF4B if the wind got up on my
                  lake and 100# is allot on the transom of a small sailboat.

                  Truthfully, On Duckworks, Paul Fishers "Galway" with bilge keel would
                  be more what I might ultimately want, or something along that line,
                  but having never built a boat I would be hesitant to undertake that
                  project as a first boat. I also have a limitation of about 2000# on
                  my tow vehicke too.

                  Please keep the thoughts coming. It helps to have other ideas and
                  oppinions.

                  Regards~
                  William



                  ---------------------------------
                  Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                  Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • jaczoey
                  Hi William. Have you seen the sailboat called the Marsh Duck on Duckworks Magazine web site. Weights about 150 pounds, can transport on top of a small car so
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 10, 2013
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                    Hi William. Have you seen the sailboat called the Marsh Duck on Duckworks Magazine web site. Weights about 150 pounds, can transport on top of a small car so no trailer is needed, sleeping space for one person (maybe two) inside out of the weather and one in the cockpit, no outboard motor, can row at 3 or 4 knots for a long while and it sails fast. The designer went on a 4 week cruise with two people aboard then cruised solo for 2 weeks. The designer has a blog at scotdomergueblog.wordpress.com. It looks like it would be a good boat for my wife and I to cruise in I'm thinking about building one. Let me know what you think of it.



                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "gdbg66a2000" <gdbg66a2000@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > All good points and I have been there with some of them. I live in S
                    > Colorado. Definetly not the sailing capital or the world! My only
                    > small lake, (with what can be fluky winds on a moments notice), is
                    > about 10 mi away. My first sailboat was a a Hunter 23. A puppy's
                    > mother to rig so really limited me on an impromptu day out. Last boat
                    > was a WWP-15 which was 1 hr from house to sailing. Much better but
                    > small. They say there are 3 reasons to build a boat: 1) One lives in
                    > an area that there are no readily available/suitable boats for sale,
                    > 2) One just can't get the features they want, 3) One just wants to
                    > have the "fun" of building. I pretty much fit all 3.
                    >
                    > Even cheap, older 2 strokes are hard to come by around here. I am
                    > actually looking towards a newer 4 stroke. (With an eye towards using
                    > it on my next boat). 55# for a 6HP Nissan and 100+ for a 10HP. I
                    > wouldn't consider a 6HP enough for the AF4B if the wind got up on my
                    > lake and 100# is allot on the transom of a small sailboat.
                    >
                    > Truthfully, On Duckworks, Paul Fishers "Galway" with bilge keel would
                    > be more what I might ultimately want, or something along that line,
                    > but having never built a boat I would be hesitant to undertake that
                    > project as a first boat. I also have a limitation of about 2000# on
                    > my tow vehicke too.
                    >
                    > Please keep the thoughts coming. It helps to have other ideas and
                    > oppinions.
                    >
                    > Regards~
                    > William
                    >
                    > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Well, hold on a moment here. (Let me apologize right now for
                    > raising more questions!)
                    > >
                    > > On motors, You're right that you will probably want a different
                    > motor for the sailboat, but it's not so much weight or shaft length.
                    > It's fuel consumption. Jim designs the sterns of most of his
                    > sailboats to accommodate the cheap and common short shaft motor. And
                    > assuming you're looking at old-school cheap motors, the weight won't
                    > be too different. Maybe 50 lbs versus 80ish lbs. That's about the
                    > difference between my 1954 Johnson 5.5 and my 1952 Johnson 12.
                    > >
                    > > But more importantly, if your ultimate goal is a sailboat, why
                    > not just build one? You can always use it as a low speed motor launch
                    > when you don't feel like sailing. I very often do this with the Light
                    > Schooner, though I might do it less often now that I have the AF4B.
                    > >
                    > > On top of that, there's the Michalak-recommended approach of
                    > building a little boat first, since it will almost always get more
                    > use than the big one even when you have both. The
                    > canoe/pirogue/dink/punt/rowboat can hang out on the car's roof all
                    > summer, ready to go at the drop of a hat. Let's face it, when you
                    > have a free hour, you're not going to hitch a trailer. But you may
                    > very well yank the little boat off the car for a short outing. The
                    > quicker and easier the setup, the more you use it. (Besides, I'm
                    > pretty sure that sailing skills improve fastest in the smallest
                    > boats. The effects of one's actions are immediately apparent.)
                    > >
                    > > Sometimes systematizing the questions helps. Michael Connelly and
                    > I have been poking around at a survey that would help people narrow
                    > in on what fits them best. If you're game, here's an abbreviated
                    > version:
                    > >
                    > > 1. Your weather (Where do you live, anyway?)
                    > > a. How many months of the year would it be safe and pleasant
                    > to get wet on the water?
                    > > b. How many months of the year is the water frozen?
                    > > c. Average number of rainy or cold unpleasant days during the
                    > boating season
                    > > d. Average number of in-season days with wind under 5 mph
                    > > e. Average number of in-season days wind 5-15 mph
                    > > f. Average number of in-season days wind 15+ mph
                    > >
                    > > 2. Local Water
                    > > What kind of water is on your way home from work, or within a 5
                    > minute detour?
                    > > a. small lake
                    > > b. large lake or ocean
                    > > c. pond or open water in marshland
                    > > d. river - what's the current or drop per mile?
                    > > What kind of water is within a 30 minute drive of home?
                    > > a. small lake
                    > > b. large lake or ocean
                    > > c. pond or open water in marshland
                    > > d. river - what's the current or drop per mile?
                    > >
                    > > 3. Free Time
                    > > a. How much time can you use for boating on a weekday?
                    > > b. How many weekdays could you pull this off in a month?
                    > > c. How much time can you use for boating on a weekend day?
                    > > d. How many weekends could you manage this each month?
                    > >
                    > > 4. Family
                    > > a. Who's coming along? (Include the dog, if applicable)
                    > > b. Who will be waiting for you at home?
                    > >
                    > > 5. Experience
                    > > a. How much paddling have you done?
                    > > b. Rowing?
                    > > c. Sailing?
                    > > d. Motorboating?
                    > >
                    > > This might seem like a lot of work, but it's a hell of a lot less
                    > work than building something only to realize a different boat would
                    > have been better. (Like I wish I'd known about the Core Sound 20 when
                    > I built the schooner. Damn...) It might very well precipitate some
                    > good advice from the group as well.
                    > >
                    > > --Rob
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Re: Committed to an AF4B
                    > > Posted by: "gdbg66a2000" gdbg66a2000@ gdbg66a2000
                    > > Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 12:14 pm ((PDT))
                    > >
                    > > Thanks Rob, (and all)
                    > >
                    > > I guess "comitted" could be a bit of a strong a word...Have ordered
                    > the
                    > > plans and book and located a source of wood are probably more
                    > correct.
                    > > Ultimately I want something with a sail in the 18'-20' range but I
                    > > figured this boat would be a good, cheap learning experience. I am
                    > > quite limited on building space also or would probably just go for
                    > the
                    > > AF4.
                    > >
                    > > I am in a bit of a quandry here tho. The motor that I "think" I
                    > need
                    > > for the AF4B probably isn't what I would want on an 20' trailer
                    > sailor.
                    > > I think a 10HP short shaft would be appropriate for the AF4B but
                    > would
                    > > probably want a 6HP long shaft for a sailboat. (weight being the
                    > > biggest consideration).
                    > >
                    > > This boat isn't the "boat of my dreams" so I could learn on it,
                    > have
                    > > fun with it for a season or 2, and then sell it or even give it
                    > away
                    > > for what I'll have in it and no big deal. Problem is more with the
                    > > trailer and motor. They will cost me more than the boat and if I
                    > gear
                    > > for the AF4B the trailer and/or motor will either have to go with
                    > that
                    > > boat or I will have to reinvest in a bigger trailer and different
                    > > motor.
                    > >
                    > > Decisions Decisions :)
                    > > William
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                    > > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
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