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Modified Scram Pram; Ply thickness

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  • meanderline
    Hi All, A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had passed away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and well as I
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 5, 2006
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      Hi All,
      A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had passed
      away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and
      well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor I
      long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
      Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on, the
      roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched this
      year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
      fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to be 1/4"
      ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to mention
      the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
      Thanks!
    • Rob Rohde-Szudy
      Here s a reassurance. I ran my Piccup Pram (all 1/4 cheap BCX pine) into a sharp Rend Lake rock at full bore, fully laden. It stove in a small section of the
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
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        Here's a reassurance. I ran my Piccup Pram (all 1/4" cheap BCX pine) into a sharp Rend Lake rock at full bore, fully laden. It stove in a small section of the bow transom, but nothing major. I covered it with duct tape and sailed the rest of the weekend. When I got home it was patching experience. I think the kids will be fine. --Rob


        Modified Scram Pram; Ply thickness
        Posted by: "meanderline" meanderline@... meanderline
        Date: Sun Nov 5, 2006 10:27 am (PST)

        Hi All,
        A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had passed
        away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and
        well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor I
        long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
        Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on, the
        roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched this
        year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
        fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to be 1/4"
        ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to mention
        the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
        Thanks!





        ---------------------------------
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chuck Leinweber
        Meanderline: Your boat should be fine in anything up to a direct severe impact and in that case, twice the thickness might not suffice. Most hits on boats
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
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          Meanderline:
          Your boat should be fine in anything up to a direct severe impact and in
          that case, twice the thickness might not suffice. Most hits on boats like
          this occur at the chine and if those are taped inside and out are quite
          strong. There is no way to make a vessel completely impact proof, but you do
          not have to worry about normal dock kisses and the like. Have some fun!
          Chuck


          Hi All,
          A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had passed
          away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and
          well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor I
          long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
          Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on, the
          roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched this
          year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
          fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to be 1/4"
          ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to mention
          the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
          Thanks!





          Yahoo! Groups Links





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        • meanderline
          Thanks Chuck and Rob for the reassurance. I found the plans and they say quarter inch so between that and your responses I feel better. Have just ordered some
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
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            Thanks Chuck and Rob for the reassurance. I found the plans
            and they say quarter inch so between that and your responses I feel
            better. Have just ordered some epoxy and fiberglass cloth to do
            inside fillets from Duckworks but that, I think, is too toxic for
            kids so disposable dad gets to do it.

            Am now pondering best location for sunfish lateen sail I've been
            given. The boat will be seriously undercanvased, so I'm thinking of
            putting the mast base at the front of the cabin along with some type
            of mizzen to up the sail area and give it some balance. Any one out
            there with a two masted scram pram?

            As an aside, if anyone out there is wondering about how to pull
            their kids away from the T.V. I can't think of a better way than
            boatbuilding. Works like magic!

            By the way, the boat hull was built by Paul Kraniak and is mine by
            way of the Moffets.

            Thanks,
            J


            S


            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...> wrote:
            >
            > Meanderline:
            > Your boat should be fine in anything up to a direct severe impact
            and in
            > that case, twice the thickness might not suffice. Most hits on
            boats like
            > this occur at the chine and if those are taped inside and out are
            quite
            > strong. There is no way to make a vessel completely impact proof,
            but you do
            > not have to worry about normal dock kisses and the like. Have some
            fun!
            > Chuck
            >
            >
            > Hi All,
            > A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had
            passed
            > away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and
            > well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor I
            > long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
            > Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on, the
            > roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched
            this
            > year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
            > fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to be
            1/4"
            > ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to
            mention
            > the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
            > Thanks!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
            11/4/2006
            >
            >
            > --
            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
            11/4/2006
            >
          • meanderline
            Oy, I went out and measured. Would you believe 3/16 on the sides? We ve already slapped on a coat of paint so fiberglassing the exterior is a horrible
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
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              Oy, I went out and measured. Would you believe 3/16" on the sides?
              We've already slapped on a coat of paint so fiberglassing the
              exterior is a horrible thought, particularly since sanding it will
              reduce its already thin dimensions. I was already thinking of adding
              another rubrail further down, in part to support leeboards. This
              would add some strength. Any and all other ideas welcome.

              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "meanderline" <meanderline@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Chuck and Rob for the reassurance. I found the plans
              > and they say quarter inch so between that and your responses I
              feel
              > better. Have just ordered some epoxy and fiberglass cloth to do
              > inside fillets from Duckworks but that, I think, is too toxic for
              > kids so disposable dad gets to do it.
              >
              > Am now pondering best location for sunfish lateen sail I've been
              > given. The boat will be seriously undercanvased, so I'm thinking
              of
              > putting the mast base at the front of the cabin along with some
              type
              > of mizzen to up the sail area and give it some balance. Any one
              out
              > there with a two masted scram pram?
              >
              > As an aside, if anyone out there is wondering about how to pull
              > their kids away from the T.V. I can't think of a better way than
              > boatbuilding. Works like magic!
              >
              > By the way, the boat hull was built by Paul Kraniak and is mine by
              > way of the Moffets.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > J
              >
              >
              > S
              >
              >
              > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Meanderline:
              > > Your boat should be fine in anything up to a direct severe
              impact
              > and in
              > > that case, twice the thickness might not suffice. Most hits on
              > boats like
              > > this occur at the chine and if those are taped inside and out
              are
              > quite
              > > strong. There is no way to make a vessel completely impact
              proof,
              > but you do
              > > not have to worry about normal dock kisses and the like. Have
              some
              > fun!
              > > Chuck
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi All,
              > > A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had
              > passed
              > > away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive
              and
              > > well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor
              I
              > > long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
              > > Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on,
              the
              > > roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched
              > this
              > > year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
              > > fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to
              be
              > 1/4"
              > > ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to
              > mention
              > > the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
              > > Thanks!
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
              > 11/4/2006
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
              > 11/4/2006
              > >
              >
            • John and Kathy Trussell
              I find that in addition to epoxy, pumps, spreaders, and brushes, an indispensable tool for playing with epoxy as a box of 100 rubber (not latex) gloves which
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
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                I find that in addition to epoxy, pumps, spreaders, and brushes, an indispensable tool for playing with epoxy as a box of 100 rubber (not latex) gloves which you can get from your local drug store. Put them on before you start mixing and don't take them off until you are done. Vinegar will remove epoxy from skin and tools if you apply it before the epoxy gets hard. Viengar is a lot less toxic then other solvents. I haven't found anything that gets epoxy out of clothes and I have a dedicated set of clothes for this purpose. At some point you will have to sand and the best tool I have found for this is a random orbit sander with 50 grit sandpaper. Wear long sleeved shirts, gloves, and a good dust mask while sanding. Playing with epoxy is not one of my favorite things, but the suggestions above make it less unpleasant.

                John T
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: meanderline
                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:37 PM
                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Modified Scram Pram; Ply thickness


                Thanks Chuck and Rob for the reassurance. I found the plans
                and they say quarter inch so between that and your responses I feel
                better. Have just ordered some epoxy and fiberglass cloth to do
                inside fillets from Duckworks but that, I think, is too toxic for
                kids so disposable dad gets to do it.

                Am now pondering best location for sunfish lateen sail I've been
                given. The boat will be seriously undercanvased, so I'm thinking of
                putting the mast base at the front of the cabin along with some type
                of mizzen to up the sail area and give it some balance. Any one out
                there with a two masted scram pram?

                As an aside, if anyone out there is wondering about how to pull
                their kids away from the T.V. I can't think of a better way than
                boatbuilding. Works like magic!

                By the way, the boat hull was built by Paul Kraniak and is mine by
                way of the Moffets.

                Thanks,
                J

                S

                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...> wrote:
                >
                > Meanderline:
                > Your boat should be fine in anything up to a direct severe impact
                and in
                > that case, twice the thickness might not suffice. Most hits on
                boats like
                > this occur at the chine and if those are taped inside and out are
                quite
                > strong. There is no way to make a vessel completely impact proof,
                but you do
                > not have to worry about normal dock kisses and the like. Have some
                fun!
                > Chuck
                >
                >
                > Hi All,
                > A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had
                passed
                > away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and
                > well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor I
                > long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
                > Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on, the
                > roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched
                this
                > year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
                > fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to be
                1/4"
                > ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to
                mention
                > the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
                > Thanks!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                11/4/2006
                >
                >
                > --
                > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                11/4/2006
                >






                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/2006


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bruce C. Anderson
                Howdy ... I would suggest that you take a little time and find Nitrile gloves. Nitrile gloves don t have the nasty chance of allergic reactions that latex
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
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                  Howdy

                  >I find that in addition to epoxy, pumps, spreaders, and brushes, an indispensable tool for playing with epoxy as a box of 100 rubber (not latex) gloves
                  >
                  I would suggest that you take a little time and find Nitrile gloves.
                  Nitrile gloves don't have the nasty chance of allergic reactions that
                  latex gloves can. Also they are much more resistant to most solvents.

                  Good Luck

                  --
                  See Ya

                  Have Lots of FUN

                  Bruce

                  Http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
                • Nels
                  ... One might give consideration to adding some stringers to the interior and then gluing in foam between the stringers and another thin layer of plywood
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
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                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "meanderline" <meanderline@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Oy, I went out and measured. Would you believe 3/16" on the sides?
                    > We've already slapped on a coat of paint so fiberglassing the
                    > exterior is a horrible thought, particularly since sanding it will
                    > reduce its already thin dimensions. I was already thinking of adding
                    > another rubrail further down, in part to support leeboards. This
                    > would add some strength. Any and all other ideas welcome.
                    >
                    One might give consideration to adding some stringers to the interior
                    and then gluing in foam between the stringers and another thin layer
                    of plywood attached to the stringers.

                    May be too much work but it will add insulation, floatation and
                    strength as the foam sandwich construction acts like an I-beam and is
                    very strong and resilant to boot!

                    Nels
                  • Kenneth Grome
                    ... The strength of fiberglass is in tension. When the hull bumps into something it will put the inner glass fibers in tension, thus further resisting a
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
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                      On Tuesday 07 November 2006 04:55, meanderline wrote:
                      > Oy, I went out and measured. Would you believe 3/16" on the sides?
                      > We've already slapped on a coat of paint so fiberglassing the
                      > exterior is a horrible thought, particularly since sanding it will
                      > reduce its already thin dimensions. I was already thinking of adding
                      > another rubrail further down, in part to support leeboards. This
                      > would add some strength. Any and all other ideas welcome.


                      The strength of fiberglass is in tension. When the hull bumps into something
                      it will put the inner glass fibers in tension, thus further resisting a
                      puncture. In other words, fiberglass adds more puncture resistance when it
                      is inside rather than outside the hull.

                      You are hoping for more puncture resistance, right? Have the inner hull
                      surfaces been painted yet?

                      If the inside of the hull is still bare wood, it shouldn't be that difficult
                      to glass the insides. But even if it is difficult, the kids will enjoy the
                      challenge. They can work in small areas more easily than adults can,
                      too ... :)

                      Sincerely,
                      Kenneth Grome
                      Bagacay Boatworks
                      www.bagacayboatworks.com
                    • meanderline
                      O.K., not painted on the inside. I could do fiberglass and/or stringers and foam. I was already planning to add foam to the roof panels, partly for
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 7, 2006
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                        O.K., not painted on the inside. I could do fiberglass and/or
                        stringers and foam. I was already planning to add foam to the roof
                        panels, partly for insulation, partly for floatation.

                        Any consensus on best solution?

                        Thanks!
                        J


                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome
                        <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 04:55, meanderline wrote:
                        > > Oy, I went out and measured. Would you believe 3/16" on the
                        sides?
                        > > We've already slapped on a coat of paint so fiberglassing the
                        > > exterior is a horrible thought, particularly since sanding it
                        will
                        > > reduce its already thin dimensions. I was already thinking of
                        adding
                        > > another rubrail further down, in part to support leeboards.
                        This
                        > > would add some strength. Any and all other ideas welcome.
                        >
                        >
                        > The strength of fiberglass is in tension. When the hull bumps
                        into something
                        > it will put the inner glass fibers in tension, thus further
                        resisting a
                        > puncture. In other words, fiberglass adds more puncture
                        resistance when it
                        > is inside rather than outside the hull.
                        >
                        > You are hoping for more puncture resistance, right? Have the
                        inner hull
                        > surfaces been painted yet?
                        >
                        > If the inside of the hull is still bare wood, it shouldn't be that
                        difficult
                        > to glass the insides. But even if it is difficult, the kids will
                        enjoy the
                        > challenge. They can work in small areas more easily than adults
                        can,
                        > too ... :)
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        > Kenneth Grome
                        > Bagacay Boatworks
                        > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                        >
                      • Chuck Leinweber
                        I think a Mizzen would be fine on your Scram. Be sure to read Jim s essays on sail balance and finding CofE and CLR. I built boats and sailed with all my kids
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 7, 2006
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                          I think a Mizzen would be fine on your Scram. Be sure to read Jim's essays
                          on sail balance and finding CofE and CLR. I built boats and sailed with all
                          my kids and now am just waiting for the grandkids to get old enough.
                          Chuck
                          _______________________

                          Thanks Chuck and Rob for the reassurance. I found the plans
                          and they say quarter inch so between that and your responses I feel
                          better. Have just ordered some epoxy and fiberglass cloth to do
                          inside fillets from Duckworks but that, I think, is too toxic for
                          kids so disposable dad gets to do it.

                          Am now pondering best location for sunfish lateen sail I've been
                          given. The boat will be seriously undercanvased, so I'm thinking of
                          putting the mast base at the front of the cabin along with some type
                          of mizzen to up the sail area and give it some balance. Any one out
                          there with a two masted scram pram?

                          As an aside, if anyone out there is wondering about how to pull
                          their kids away from the T.V. I can't think of a better way than
                          boatbuilding. Works like magic!

                          By the way, the boat hull was built by Paul Kraniak and is mine by
                          way of the Moffets.

                          Thanks,
                          J


                          S


                          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Meanderline:
                          > Your boat should be fine in anything up to a direct severe impact
                          and in
                          > that case, twice the thickness might not suffice. Most hits on
                          boats like
                          > this occur at the chine and if those are taped inside and out are
                          quite
                          > strong. There is no way to make a vessel completely impact proof,
                          but you do
                          > not have to worry about normal dock kisses and the like. Have some
                          fun!
                          > Chuck
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi All,
                          > A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had
                          passed
                          > away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and
                          > well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor I
                          > long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
                          > Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on, the
                          > roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched
                          this
                          > year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
                          > fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to be
                          1/4"
                          > ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to
                          mention
                          > the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
                          > Thanks!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                          11/4/2006
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                          11/4/2006
                          >






                          Yahoo! Groups Links





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                          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 11/4/2006


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                        • Chuck Leinweber
                          Even at 3/16, I would not worry overly, J. It is surprising how durable ply is. As Kenneth said, glass would be more useful for punctures on the inside, but
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 7, 2006
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                            Even at 3/16, I would not worry overly, J. It is surprising how durable ply
                            is. As Kenneth said, glass would be more useful for punctures on the
                            inside, but less useful for scrapes. I'd be inclined to paint the boat and
                            go sailing. We took two boats with 1/8" sides down the San Juan River this
                            summer. Only had one puncture and that was easily fixed and made for a good
                            story.
                            Chuck


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of meanderline
                            Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:56 AM
                            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Modified Scram Pram; Ply thickness

                            O.K., not painted on the inside. I could do fiberglass and/or
                            stringers and foam. I was already planning to add foam to the roof
                            panels, partly for insulation, partly for floatation.

                            Any consensus on best solution?

                            Thanks!
                            J


                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome
                            <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 04:55, meanderline wrote:
                            > > Oy, I went out and measured. Would you believe 3/16" on the
                            sides?
                            > > We've already slapped on a coat of paint so fiberglassing the
                            > > exterior is a horrible thought, particularly since sanding it
                            will
                            > > reduce its already thin dimensions. I was already thinking of
                            adding
                            > > another rubrail further down, in part to support leeboards.
                            This
                            > > would add some strength. Any and all other ideas welcome.
                            >
                            >
                            > The strength of fiberglass is in tension. When the hull bumps
                            into something
                            > it will put the inner glass fibers in tension, thus further
                            resisting a
                            > puncture. In other words, fiberglass adds more puncture
                            resistance when it
                            > is inside rather than outside the hull.
                            >
                            > You are hoping for more puncture resistance, right? Have the
                            inner hull
                            > surfaces been painted yet?
                            >
                            > If the inside of the hull is still bare wood, it shouldn't be that
                            difficult
                            > to glass the insides. But even if it is difficult, the kids will
                            enjoy the
                            > challenge. They can work in small areas more easily than adults
                            can,
                            > too ... :)
                            >
                            > Sincerely,
                            > Kenneth Grome
                            > Bagacay Boatworks
                            > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                            >






                            Yahoo! Groups Links





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                            --
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                            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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                          • chrisbfeller
                            I always use a random orbit sander with my shopvac attached. With this setup I never get dust floating in the air and into my lungs. You need to clean the
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 7, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I always use a random orbit sander with my shopvac attached. With
                              this setup I never get dust floating in the air and into my lungs.
                              You need to clean the filter after 3 or 4 hours sanding but it is
                              worth it.

                              Chris
                              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
                              <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I find that in addition to epoxy, pumps, spreaders, and brushes, an
                              indispensable tool for playing with epoxy as a box of 100 rubber (not
                              latex) gloves which you can get from your local drug store. Put them
                              on before you start mixing and don't take them off until you are done.
                              Vinegar will remove epoxy from skin and tools if you apply it before
                              the epoxy gets hard. Viengar is a lot less toxic then other solvents.
                              I haven't found anything that gets epoxy out of clothes and I have a
                              dedicated set of clothes for this purpose. At some point you will
                              have to sand and the best tool I have found for this is a random orbit
                              sander with 50 grit sandpaper. Wear long sleeved shirts, gloves, and
                              a good dust mask while sanding. Playing with epoxy is not one of my
                              favorite things, but the suggestions above make it less unpleasant.
                              >
                              > John T
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: meanderline
                              > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:37 PM
                              > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Modified Scram Pram; Ply thickness
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks Chuck and Rob for the reassurance. I found the plans
                              > and they say quarter inch so between that and your responses I feel
                              > better. Have just ordered some epoxy and fiberglass cloth to do
                              > inside fillets from Duckworks but that, I think, is too toxic for
                              > kids so disposable dad gets to do it.
                              >
                              > Am now pondering best location for sunfish lateen sail I've been
                              > given. The boat will be seriously undercanvased, so I'm thinking of
                              > putting the mast base at the front of the cabin along with some type
                              > of mizzen to up the sail area and give it some balance. Any one out
                              > there with a two masted scram pram?
                              >
                              > As an aside, if anyone out there is wondering about how to pull
                              > their kids away from the T.V. I can't think of a better way than
                              > boatbuilding. Works like magic!
                              >
                              > By the way, the boat hull was built by Paul Kraniak and is mine by
                              > way of the Moffets.
                              >
                              > Thanks,
                              > J
                              >
                              > S
                              >
                              > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Meanderline:
                              > > Your boat should be fine in anything up to a direct severe impact
                              > and in
                              > > that case, twice the thickness might not suffice. Most hits on
                              > boats like
                              > > this occur at the chine and if those are taped inside and out are
                              > quite
                              > > strong. There is no way to make a vessel completely impact proof,
                              > but you do
                              > > not have to worry about normal dock kisses and the like. Have some
                              > fun!
                              > > Chuck
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi All,
                              > > A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had
                              > passed
                              > > away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and
                              > > well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor I
                              > > long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
                              > > Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on, the
                              > > roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched
                              > this
                              > > year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
                              > > fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to be
                              > 1/4"
                              > > ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to
                              > mention
                              > > the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
                              > > Thanks!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                              > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                              > 11/4/2006
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                              > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                              > 11/4/2006
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              >
                              > No virus found in this incoming message.
                              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                              > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                              11/4/2006
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • John and Kathy Trussell
                              1) Nitrile gloves are wonderful, but they are pricey and hard to find around here. I ve learned to be sort of neat when playing with epoxy (less sanding
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 7, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                1) Nitrile gloves are wonderful, but they are pricey and hard to find around here. I've learned to be sort of neat when playing with epoxy (less sanding required if you're neat) and rubber gloves are partially a barrier protection device and largely an aid to easy clean up. use nitrile if you can find it, but use something (rubber gloves) regardless.

                                2) Anything that can be done to reduce the volume of dust is a good thing, but even with a shop vac attached, any sander will generate dust which will not get sucked up. I would be cautious about foresaking a mask even with a good dust collection system. One day I'll spring for one of those nifty positive ventilation masks, but in the meantime, I wear a mask. Aint nothin risk free. If your running a shop vac, you probably need to wear some sort of hearing protection....

                                JohnT
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: chrisbfeller
                                To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:51 AM
                                Subject: [Michalak] Re: Modified Scram Pram; Ply thickness


                                I always use a random orbit sander with my shopvac attached. With
                                this setup I never get dust floating in the air and into my lungs.
                                You need to clean the filter after 3 or 4 hours sanding but it is
                                worth it.

                                Chris
                                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
                                <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I find that in addition to epoxy, pumps, spreaders, and brushes, an
                                indispensable tool for playing with epoxy as a box of 100 rubber (not
                                latex) gloves which you can get from your local drug store. Put them
                                on before you start mixing and don't take them off until you are done.
                                Vinegar will remove epoxy from skin and tools if you apply it before
                                the epoxy gets hard. Viengar is a lot less toxic then other solvents.
                                I haven't found anything that gets epoxy out of clothes and I have a
                                dedicated set of clothes for this purpose. At some point you will
                                have to sand and the best tool I have found for this is a random orbit
                                sander with 50 grit sandpaper. Wear long sleeved shirts, gloves, and
                                a good dust mask while sanding. Playing with epoxy is not one of my
                                favorite things, but the suggestions above make it less unpleasant.
                                >
                                > John T
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: meanderline
                                > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:37 PM
                                > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Modified Scram Pram; Ply thickness
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks Chuck and Rob for the reassurance. I found the plans
                                > and they say quarter inch so between that and your responses I feel
                                > better. Have just ordered some epoxy and fiberglass cloth to do
                                > inside fillets from Duckworks but that, I think, is too toxic for
                                > kids so disposable dad gets to do it.
                                >
                                > Am now pondering best location for sunfish lateen sail I've been
                                > given. The boat will be seriously undercanvased, so I'm thinking of
                                > putting the mast base at the front of the cabin along with some type
                                > of mizzen to up the sail area and give it some balance. Any one out
                                > there with a two masted scram pram?
                                >
                                > As an aside, if anyone out there is wondering about how to pull
                                > their kids away from the T.V. I can't think of a better way than
                                > boatbuilding. Works like magic!
                                >
                                > By the way, the boat hull was built by Paul Kraniak and is mine by
                                > way of the Moffets.
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                > J
                                >
                                > S
                                >
                                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Meanderline:
                                > > Your boat should be fine in anything up to a direct severe impact
                                > and in
                                > > that case, twice the thickness might not suffice. Most hits on
                                > boats like
                                > > this occur at the chine and if those are taped inside and out are
                                > quite
                                > > strong. There is no way to make a vessel completely impact proof,
                                > but you do
                                > > not have to worry about normal dock kisses and the like. Have some
                                > fun!
                                > > Chuck
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hi All,
                                > > A while ago I was given a Scram Pram Hull whose builder had
                                > passed
                                > > away before completion. After a long lull Tom Sawyer is alive and
                                > > well as I supervise a crew of 13 year olds working with a fervor I
                                > > long ago outgrew on what is to be a floating clubhouse.
                                > > Long story short the bow deck is on, the stern deck is on, the
                                > > roof is on, and I'm starting to think it may even get launched
                                > this
                                > > year. So, now I'm worrying about hull strength. The bottom is
                                > > fiberglassed to the water line, however the hull sides seem to be
                                > 1/4"
                                > > ply. I'm worrying about the boat running into flotsam, not to
                                > mention
                                > > the occasional pier. Any reassurances/recommendations?
                                > > Thanks!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                                > 11/4/2006
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                                > 11/4/2006
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                ----------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date:
                                11/4/2006
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >






                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                No virus found in this incoming message.
                                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.30/521 - Release Date: 11/7/2006


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Nels
                                ... This stuff got a really good review in Woodenboat magazine awhile back. Basically it is a sanding mesh from Finland originally.
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 7, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "chrisbfeller" <chrisbfeller@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I always use a random orbit sander with my shopvac attached. With
                                  > this setup I never get dust floating in the air and into my lungs.
                                  > You need to clean the filter after 3 or 4 hours sanding but it is
                                  > worth it.
                                  >
                                  > Chris

                                  This stuff got a really good review in Woodenboat magazine awhile
                                  back. Basically it is a sanding "mesh" from Finland originally.

                                  http://www.mirka-usa.com/products/brands/abranet.htm

                                  Nels
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