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Marine of standard plywood

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  • lxvnrsw
    now here s a senario: Like most people you live in a world where things cost money so just using only the best materials is out of the question. You have
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 2, 2006
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      now here's a senario:

      Like most people you live in a world where things cost money so just
      using only the best materials is out of the question. You have decided
      to use one of two methods; either buy lesser grade but still exterior
      plywood and then spend your money on epoxy coating all you wood very
      throughly, OR, you buy expensive marine plywood but use epoxy
      sparingly, coating your wood with exterior paint.

      What method would you choose?

      Or is there another, better, method?
    • Bob Chamberland
      Neither. Epoxy coating in a sense is gold plating pig manure whereas epoxy coating good materials is extending the life expectancy of your boats. Bob
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 2, 2006
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        Neither.

        Epoxy coating in a sense is gold plating pig manure whereas epoxy
        coating good materials is extending the life expectancy of your boats.

        Bob Chamberland


        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "lxvnrsw" <alexandervanorsow@...> wrote:
        >
        > now here's a senario:
        >
        > Like most people you live in a world where things cost money so just
        > using only the best materials is out of the question. You have decided
        > to use one of two methods; either buy lesser grade but still exterior
        > plywood and then spend your money on epoxy coating all you wood very
        > throughly, OR, you buy expensive marine plywood but use epoxy
        > sparingly, coating your wood with exterior paint.
        >
        > What method would you choose?
        >
        > Or is there another, better, method?
        >
      • John and Kathy Trussell
        First, when you consider the time needed to build a boat, the actual cost of materials becomes relatively insignificant. Second, while we usually measure cost
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 2, 2006
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          First, when you consider the time needed to build a boat, the actual cost of materials becomes relatively insignificant.

          Second, while we usually measure cost by the number of sheets of plywood required, the cost of plywood is only a portion of the overall cost of the boat. In addition to the ply, you will need fiberglass cloth and tape, epoxy, and various additives. You will need paint. You will need some sort of 'natural' wood for gunwales, etc. In building the boat, you will consume lots of sandpaper, rubber gloves, and paint brushes/rollers (and maybe band aids). Then there is hardware which must be fabricated, scrounged, or bought. Finally, there are paddles/oars/masts/ sails/motors/trailers/PFD's, and maybe an anchor and flares.

          Third, when you are looking at plywood costs, you need to consider a) the incremental additional cost of good plywood over construction grade plywood and b) the additional cost of the additional time needed to get a decent finish on cheaper plywoods.

          For me, all these considerations suggest that for small, 4 or 5 sheet boats, the best plywood is the way to go. If you are really tight on funds, I think the cheapest way to go is AC ply over natural wood frames, chines, and gunwales, all held together with annular nails and weldwood powdered glue and finished in latex.

          JohnT
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: lxvnrsw
          To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:01 PM
          Subject: [Michalak] Marine of standard plywood


          now here's a senario:

          Like most people you live in a world where things cost money so just
          using only the best materials is out of the question. You have decided
          to use one of two methods; either buy lesser grade but still exterior
          plywood and then spend your money on epoxy coating all you wood very
          throughly, OR, you buy expensive marine plywood but use epoxy
          sparingly, coating your wood with exterior paint.

          What method would you choose?

          Or is there another, better, method?






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        • vexatious2001
          either buy lesser grade but still exterior ... If Bob s alternative is out of the question, and IF I had to choose between your (2) offered alternatives, I
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 2, 2006
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            either buy lesser grade but still exterior
            > plywood and then spend your money on epoxy coating all you wood very
            > throughly, OR, you buy expensive marine plywood but use epoxy
            > sparingly, coating your wood with exterior paint.
            >
            > What method would you choose?
            >
            > Or is there another, better, method?
            >


            If Bob's alternative is out of the question, and
            IF I had to choose between your (2) offered alternatives,
            I would tend to go with quality plywood and no
            epoxy.

            If you can store the boat in a garage or shed,
            quality plywood and paint will last a long time.
            Jim M's Birdwatcher is 16 or 17 years old, painted
            fir plywood, and kept in a shed. It is on it's
            original paint job. It sure needs another paint job
            bad, but still, 16 or 17 years is a LONG time.

            Last time I looked, I did not notice any checking on
            the plywood.



            Max
          • rhaldridge
            ... Well, I think AC ply, or even lauan underlayment, is a better structural material than pig manure. I look at some of the boats Matt Layden built out of
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 2, 2006
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              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Chamberland" <chamberlands@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Neither.
              >
              > Epoxy coating in a sense is gold plating pig manure whereas epoxy
              > coating good materials is extending the life expectancy of your boats.
              >

              Well, I think AC ply, or even lauan underlayment, is a better
              structural material than pig manure.

              I look at some of the boats Matt Layden built out of exterior ply.
              Some are still alive and well after many years of use and abuse.

              Ray
            • Mike Mulcahy
              ... decided ... I built Philsboat of good AC fir plywood (did the boil test) covered with 6oz cloth and epoxy and am very happy with the results. Partly I did
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 2, 2006
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                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "lxvnrsw" <alexandervanorsow@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > now here's a senario:
                >
                > Like most people you live in a world where things cost money so just
                > using only the best materials is out of the question. You have
                decided
                > to use one of two methods; either buy lesser grade but still exterior
                > plywood and then spend your money on epoxy coating all you wood very
                > throughly, OR, you buy expensive marine plywood but use epoxy
                > sparingly, coating your wood with exterior paint.
                >
                > What method would you choose?
                >
                > Or is there another, better, method?
                >
                I built Philsboat of good AC fir plywood (did the boil test) covered
                with 6oz cloth and epoxy and am very happy with the results. Partly I
                did this because my closest supplier of marine plywood is 400 miles
                away and it was easier to ship in glass cloth and epoxy.
                Mike
              • howgegoboat
                My last boat canoe, (cheap pine ply) was covered with black Bitumen paint, then two glass white enammel then two of colour and seems to be holding very well
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 3, 2006
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                  My last boat canoe, (cheap pine ply) was covered with black Bitumen
                  paint, then two glass white enammel then two of colour and seems to
                  be holding very well the only thing is that the paint didn't stick
                  very well in zero temp so is a little soft, but will harden over
                  time.
                  What about using polyester resin and glass just over the bottom?
                  On pine ply may well stick better as it is more absorbant?
                  Fatcat 2 style boat coing on, just completed bottom but need more
                  screws will get 1000 in next few days.
                  Yours james


                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Mulcahy" <kakwariver@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "lxvnrsw" <alexandervanorsow@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > now here's a senario:
                  > >
                  > > Like most people you live in a world where things cost money so
                  just
                  > > using only the best materials is out of the question. You have
                  > decided
                  > > to use one of two methods; either buy lesser grade but still
                  exterior
                  > > plywood and then spend your money on epoxy coating all you wood
                  very
                  > > throughly, OR, you buy expensive marine plywood but use epoxy
                  > > sparingly, coating your wood with exterior paint.
                  > >
                  > > What method would you choose?
                  > >
                  > > Or is there another, better, method?
                  > >
                  > I built Philsboat of good AC fir plywood (did the boil test)
                  covered
                  > with 6oz cloth and epoxy and am very happy with the results.
                  Partly I
                  > did this because my closest supplier of marine plywood is 400
                  miles
                  > away and it was easier to ship in glass cloth and epoxy.
                  > Mike
                  >
                • Kenneth Grome
                  ... Polyester resin is not an adhesive, it really should not be used to cover a wooden core. Sincerely, Kenneth Grome Bagacay Boatworks
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 3, 2006
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                    On Tuesday 03 October 2006 17:34, howgegoboat wrote:
                    > What about using polyester resin and glass just over the bottom?

                    Polyester resin is not an adhesive, it really should not be used to cover a
                    wooden core.

                    Sincerely,
                    Kenneth Grome
                    Bagacay Boatworks
                    www.bagacayboatworks.com
                  • chrisbfeller
                    I prefer using AC or BC plywood then cover with epoxy and fiberglass. Since either has to be mail ordered it is a lot cheaper to ship fiberglass and epoxy.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 3, 2006
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                      I prefer using AC or BC plywood then cover with epoxy and fiberglass.
                      Since either has to be mail ordered it is a lot cheaper to ship
                      fiberglass and epoxy. The other way to go is use local plywood and no
                      epoxy. Thats what I did on my Bolger Pointy Skiff 12 years old now
                      stored outside and going strong. Though It does need some paint and
                      the outside is checking.

                      Chris

                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "lxvnrsw" <alexandervanorsow@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > now here's a senario:
                      >
                      > Like most people you live in a world where things cost money so just
                      > using only the best materials is out of the question. You have decided
                      > to use one of two methods; either buy lesser grade but still exterior
                      > plywood and then spend your money on epoxy coating all you wood very
                      > throughly, OR, you buy expensive marine plywood but use epoxy
                      > sparingly, coating your wood with exterior paint.
                      >
                      > What method would you choose?
                      >
                      > Or is there another, better, method?
                      >
                    • jtweigandt
                      I happen to have a very functional ACX plywood boat covered in polyester laminating resin and 6 oz glass living in my back yard... Now the punch line.. The
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 3, 2006
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                        I happen to have a very functional ACX plywood boat covered in
                        polyester laminating resin and 6 oz glass living in my back yard... Now
                        the punch line.. The boat is over 20 years old now.

                        If you follow the rules, polyester is fine. You have to do a little
                        homework though. Laminating resin does not have any wax in it and
                        penetrates the wood well to adhere, and stays tacky even when cured to
                        accept the next layer. Most polyester resin purchased in the can from
                        the auto parts store or Wal mart, does have wax or other agents in it
                        that rise to the surface and protect from air during polymerization,
                        letting you have the smooth non tacky surface. If you try to bond a
                        layer of glass to this, you will indeed be disappointed.

                        So be careful when "experts" speak off the cuff. All that said, I like
                        epoxy resin better.. handling properties, odor, adhesion, and the fact
                        that it is more close to water proof.

                        John


                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > On Tuesday 03 October 2006 17:34, howgegoboat wrote:
                        > > What about using polyester resin and glass just over the bottom?
                        >
                        > Polyester resin is not an adhesive, it really should not be used to
                        cover a
                        > wooden core.
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        > Kenneth Grome
                        > Bagacay Boatworks
                        > www.bagacayboatworks.com
                        >
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