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Sailing An AF4 ?

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  • antec007
    I m wondering if anybody has tried putting a sail on an AF4? I know the AF4 Is a Power Boat and doesn t have a proper Sailboat Bottom, But, just wondering if I
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 8 5:43 PM
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      I'm wondering if anybody has tried putting a sail on an AF4?

      I know the AF4 Is a Power Boat and doesn't have a proper Sailboat
      Bottom, But, just wondering if I Could Sail my "PK-20" ?
      "PK-20" is Similar to a 20' AF4-18.
      "PK-20" Photos in Files Section to see what you think.
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/%22PK-20%22/

      I've always wanted a "Schooner" and even though my PK is
      not a perfect schooner hull, I might be able to add a couple of short
      masts (AF3 like) and make a couple of "Polytarp" (in my case, just
      cheap blue plastic tarp) Gaff sails and jib, attached to a bow sprit
      over a "Clipper Bow" extension.
      Foremast mounted in front of cabin and main mast just behind cabin, a
      little offset so I can still get in the cabin.
      Long, low schooner rig similar to Bolger's "His And Hers Schooners".

      I'd add a Large "Michalak Style" leeboard to one side about at the
      main cabin bulkheard, and replace the big outboard with a Big gudgeon
      and pintle mounted, kick-up rudder.
      Would seem that without a heavy outboard and trimmed down by the bow,
      the bottom of the transom would be barely submerged and not cause Too
      Much drag.
      I already have a little 4HP "Kicker" mounted on an extended motor
      mount on the port side of the transom, Just in Case the rig doesn't
      work, the wind dies or upwind help.

      Bolger's "Fast Motor Sailor" ?

      Any "Down Side" I am missing, other than possible "Over Canvassing"?

      I Would Like a Schooner.
      Could This Be It?

      Would save having to build a real schooner and might get this
      "Schooner Thing" out of my system."
      Anybody sailed a schooner, single handed ? <G>

      Just
      Having Fun (But, half serious)
      We Are Just "Messing About" Aren't we ?
      Pat Patteson
      Molalla, Oregon
    • Chuck Leinweber
      Pat: I don t think it’s a bad idea at all. One thing you might want to do to get it to sail a little better would be to try to get the nose down with
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 8 6:42 PM
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        Pat:

        I don't think it’s a bad idea at all. One thing you might want to do to get
        it to sail a little better would be to try to get the nose down with ballast
        forward. This would minimize turbulence at the transom. Make your rudder
        as light as possible and put all your gear forward. Make a long tiller to
        get the helmsman forward too.
        Sounds like a hoot!

        Chuck

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of antec007
        > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:44 PM
        > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Michalak] Sailing An AF4 ?
        >
        > I'm wondering if anybody has tried putting a sail on an AF4?
        >
        > I know the AF4 Is a Power Boat and doesn't have a proper Sailboat
        > Bottom, But, just wondering if I Could Sail my "PK-20" ?
        > "PK-20" is Similar to a 20' AF4-18.
        > "PK-20" Photos in Files Section to see what you think.
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/%22PK-20%22/
        >
        > I've always wanted a "Schooner" and even though my PK is
        > not a perfect schooner hull, I might be able to add a couple of short
        > masts (AF3 like) and make a couple of "Polytarp" (in my case, just
        > cheap blue plastic tarp) Gaff sails and jib, attached to a bow sprit
        > over a "Clipper Bow" extension.
        > Foremast mounted in front of cabin and main mast just behind cabin, a
        > little offset so I can still get in the cabin.
        > Long, low schooner rig similar to Bolger's "His And Hers Schooners".
        >
        > I'd add a Large "Michalak Style" leeboard to one side about at the
        > main cabin bulkheard, and replace the big outboard with a Big gudgeon
        > and pintle mounted, kick-up rudder.
        > Would seem that without a heavy outboard and trimmed down by the bow,
        > the bottom of the transom would be barely submerged and not cause Too
        > Much drag.
        > I already have a little 4HP "Kicker" mounted on an extended motor
        > mount on the port side of the transom, Just in Case the rig doesn't
        > work, the wind dies or upwind help.
        >
        > Bolger's "Fast Motor Sailor" ?
        >
        > Any "Down Side" I am missing, other than possible "Over Canvassing"?
        >
        > I Would Like a Schooner.
        > Could This Be It?
        >
        > Would save having to build a real schooner and might get this
        > "Schooner Thing" out of my system."
        > Anybody sailed a schooner, single handed ? <G>
        >
        > Just
        > Having Fun (But, half serious)
        > We Are Just "Messing About" Aren't we ?
        > Pat Patteson
        > Molalla, Oregon
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006
        >

        --
        No virus found in this outgoing message.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006
      • cpack
        Another idea is to make a false, transom attached, rear hull to improve water flow around the transom and make a better departure for the trailing wake.This
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 8 6:53 PM
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          Another idea is to make a false, transom attached, rear hull to improve
          water flow around the transom and make a better departure for the trailing
          wake.This area could also contain water ballast to retrim the hull ( sans
          motor) since it would not be needed to keep the flat transom from dragging
          if it isn't flat anymore.
          Sail safe,
          Curtis
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...>
          To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:42 PM
          Subject: RE: [Michalak] Sailing An AF4 ?


          > Pat:
          >
          > I don't think it’s a bad idea at all. One thing you might want to do to
          > get
          > it to sail a little better would be to try to get the nose down with
          > ballast
          > forward. This would minimize turbulence at the transom. Make your rudder
          > as light as possible and put all your gear forward. Make a long tiller to
          > get the helmsman forward too.
          > Sounds like a hoot!
          >
          > Chuck
          >
          >> -----Original Message-----
          >> From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
          >> Behalf Of antec007
          >> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:44 PM
          >> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
          >> Subject: [Michalak] Sailing An AF4 ?
          >>
          >> I'm wondering if anybody has tried putting a sail on an AF4?
          >>
          >> I know the AF4 Is a Power Boat and doesn't have a proper Sailboat
          >> Bottom, But, just wondering if I Could Sail my "PK-20" ?
          >> "PK-20" is Similar to a 20' AF4-18.
          >> "PK-20" Photos in Files Section to see what you think.
          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/%22PK-20%22/
          >>
          >> I've always wanted a "Schooner" and even though my PK is
          >> not a perfect schooner hull, I might be able to add a couple of short
          >> masts (AF3 like) and make a couple of "Polytarp" (in my case, just
          >> cheap blue plastic tarp) Gaff sails and jib, attached to a bow sprit
          >> over a "Clipper Bow" extension.
          >> Foremast mounted in front of cabin and main mast just behind cabin, a
          >> little offset so I can still get in the cabin.
          >> Long, low schooner rig similar to Bolger's "His And Hers Schooners".
          >>
          >> I'd add a Large "Michalak Style" leeboard to one side about at the
          >> main cabin bulkheard, and replace the big outboard with a Big gudgeon
          >> and pintle mounted, kick-up rudder.
          >> Would seem that without a heavy outboard and trimmed down by the bow,
          >> the bottom of the transom would be barely submerged and not cause Too
          >> Much drag.
          >> I already have a little 4HP "Kicker" mounted on an extended motor
          >> mount on the port side of the transom, Just in Case the rig doesn't
          >> work, the wind dies or upwind help.
          >>
          >> Bolger's "Fast Motor Sailor" ?
          >>
          >> Any "Down Side" I am missing, other than possible "Over Canvassing"?
          >>
          >> I Would Like a Schooner.
          >> Could This Be It?
          >>
          >> Would save having to build a real schooner and might get this
          >> "Schooner Thing" out of my system."
          >> Anybody sailed a schooner, single handed ? <G>
          >>
          >> Just
          >> Having Fun (But, half serious)
          >> We Are Just "Messing About" Aren't we ?
          >> Pat Patteson
          >> Molalla, Oregon
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> --
          >> No virus found in this incoming message.
          >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006
          >>
          >
          > --
          > No virus found in this outgoing message.
          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • David
          Pat, I have no idea if it d work, but I d love to see you do it. BTW, thanks for the link to those fotos. I hadn t seen that image of you and I and the boys
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 8 7:01 PM
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            Pat,

            I have no idea if it'd work, but I'd love to see you do it. BTW,
            thanks for the link to those fotos. I hadn't seen that image of you
            and I and the boys shad fishing. I immediately added it to my personal
            photo album. Thanks again for introducing us to the pursuit of shad.
            It was a gas, and boy did I enjoy all the shad roe.

            Cheers,
            David Graybeal
            Portland, OR

            "Moderation in all things, especially moderation" -- anon.

            ************

            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "antec007" <pateson@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm wondering if anybody has tried putting a sail on an AF4?
            >
            > I know the AF4 Is a Power Boat and doesn't have a proper Sailboat
            > Bottom, But, just wondering if I Could Sail my "PK-20" ?
            > "PK-20" is Similar to a 20' AF4-18.
            > "PK-20" Photos in Files Section to see what you think.
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/%22PK-20%22/
            >
            > I've always wanted a "Schooner" and even though my PK is
            > not a perfect schooner hull, I might be able to add a couple of short
            > masts (AF3 like) and make a couple of "Polytarp" (in my case, just
            > cheap blue plastic tarp) Gaff sails and jib, attached to a bow sprit
            > over a "Clipper Bow" extension.
            > Foremast mounted in front of cabin and main mast just behind cabin, a
            > little offset so I can still get in the cabin.
            > Long, low schooner rig similar to Bolger's "His And Hers Schooners".
            >
            > I'd add a Large "Michalak Style" leeboard to one side about at the
            > main cabin bulkheard, and replace the big outboard with a Big gudgeon
            > and pintle mounted, kick-up rudder.
            > Would seem that without a heavy outboard and trimmed down by the bow,
            > the bottom of the transom would be barely submerged and not cause Too
            > Much drag.
            > I already have a little 4HP "Kicker" mounted on an extended motor
            > mount on the port side of the transom, Just in Case the rig doesn't
            > work, the wind dies or upwind help.
            >
            > Bolger's "Fast Motor Sailor" ?
            >
            > Any "Down Side" I am missing, other than possible "Over Canvassing"?
            >
            > I Would Like a Schooner.
            > Could This Be It?
            >
            > Would save having to build a real schooner and might get this
            > "Schooner Thing" out of my system."
            > Anybody sailed a schooner, single handed ? <G>
            >
            > Just
            > Having Fun (But, half serious)
            > We Are Just "Messing About" Aren't we ?
            > Pat Patteson
            > Molalla, Oregon
            >
          • vexatious2001
            ... Kilburn Adams orignally was going to offer plans for a sail rig for the Skiff America 20, but later dropped the idea. Although he never completed the sail
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 9 6:58 PM
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              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "antec007" <pateson@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'm wondering if anybody has tried putting a sail on an AF4?
              >


              Kilburn Adams orignally was going to offer plans
              for a sail rig for the Skiff America 20, but later dropped
              the idea.

              Although he never completed the sail rig plans, the early
              plans sets for the Skiff America carried a general arangement
              drawing showing an off-center mounted daggerboard, an off-
              center mounted mast (in the slot), and a single lug sail.

              A rudder was mounted (again, off center) on the transom.

              As Kilburn has a Sea Pearl (and was once a Sea Pearl dealer)
              and was also a wind surfer in his younger days, I assume he
              he knows his way around sailboats.

              As far as I could tell, the multi-chine hull was not modified
              in any way other than a trunk being added through the bilge panel
              for the daggerboard.

              Some interesting details of an "emergency" sail rig here:
              http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5649e/y5649e00.htm

              Max
            • antec007
              Thanks for the info. I guess he is a little like me in the sailing department. I ve sailed a lot and tend to want to at least Try a sail rig on Any boat I
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 11 10:33 AM
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                Thanks for the info.

                I guess he is a little like me in the sailing department.

                I've sailed a lot and tend to want to at least Try a sail rig
                on Any boat I build.
                My other, first Schooner was a Folbot Super with a self tending gaff
                schooner rig with push pull steering.
                Once I got all the sails set all I had to do was steer the boat and
                the sails would take care of themselves until I had to head up more or
                fall off.
                I think I know where the term "3 Sheets To the Wind" originated.
                Anybody trying to sail a schooner single handed.
                Kinda the way I felt.

                And thanks for the "FAO" link.
                I forget about that and then somebody posts it again and I spend a lot
                of time going through the boats and ideas there.
                I have some of the original hard copy from that organization I got
                from the old "Texas Dory" folks.
                Some Realy Neat boats and a lot of the predcessors to Bolger's
                "Diablo" types and many of Jim's.
                Might be that Bolger was doing a lot of the designs for Texas Dory and
                FAO.
                I think John Gardner was in on some of the FAO designs too.

                Funny, That ememgency Rudder Is Bolger's genric small boat rudder.
                Ingenios design that folds neatly for storage.
                I didn't realize how nice it was 'till it built one for My "Elegant
                Punt" many years ago.

                Thanks again
                Have Fun
                Pat


                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vexatious2001" <cadbury112@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "antec007" <pateson@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I'm wondering if anybody has tried putting a sail on an AF4?
                > >
                >
                >
                > Kilburn Adams orignally was going to offer plans
                > for a sail rig for the Skiff America 20, but later dropped
                > the idea.
                >
                > Although he never completed the sail rig plans, the early
                > plans sets for the Skiff America carried a general arangement
                > drawing showing an off-center mounted daggerboard, an off-
                > center mounted mast (in the slot), and a single lug sail.
                >
                > A rudder was mounted (again, off center) on the transom.
                >
                > As Kilburn has a Sea Pearl (and was once a Sea Pearl dealer)
                > and was also a wind surfer in his younger days, I assume he
                > he knows his way around sailboats.
                >
                > As far as I could tell, the multi-chine hull was not modified
                > in any way other than a trunk being added through the bilge panel
                > for the daggerboard.
                >
                > Some interesting details of an "emergency" sail rig here:
                > http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5649e/y5649e00.htm
                >
                > Max
                >
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