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Re: [Michalak] Digest Number 1577

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  • Chris Crandall
    Rob, no offense intended. The HHD solution is superior, no doubt about it. But it s hard to do, with time and metal work, compared to putting in the kayak
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 5, 2006
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      Rob, no offense intended. The HHD solution is superior, no doubt about
      it. But it's hard to do, with time and metal work, compared to putting
      in the "kayak" drain.

      One may cut off the "ladder" protrusion, of course, it's only there to
      keep it in place when opened. Tying off the plug would serve the same
      purpose, and would smooth out the waterflow.

      Madison waters are *ideal* for many of the Michalak boats, and I envy
      you your location. In fact, my only experience sinking a boat was in
      Lake Wingra--a beautiful day to sail, and we had a great day, but slowly
      the boat became harder to control, slower in stays, and water started
      slipping up over the gunwales into the footwell. Then, slowly, slowly,
      the boat leaned to leeward, the mast went down slowly, gently, until
      stuck in the mud of the lake. The boat livery had rented a boat with the
      plug taken out. This is one lesson I've learned.

      Did I mention that I brought along my friend who, despite her many fine
      qualities, did not know how to swim, and was somewhat afraid of the
      water? She had brought along her checkbook, too. My personal walk of
      shame was that afternoon, past each individual page of her duplicate
      checkbook, pegged to the clothesline.

      -Chris



      >Hey Chris, I certainly don't begrudge you that opinion. It is indeed
      "tweaky". In many waters I would prefer your solution, but
      >the lakes here in Madison are so damned weedy (from all the golf
      course fertilizer...) that any protrusion gets "bushy" pretty fast.
      >It clearer water, the DW kayak plug would certainly make for an easier
      installation.
      > Rob's solution is OK, but tweaky, expensive, and unhandsome, IMHO.
      >
      > I prefer the solution I used on my Harmonica. I purchased a complete
      > assembly for drains for a kayak. It comes with a housing, screws,
      > washer, and plug, and costs about $%. I drilled a neat hole for it,
      > gooped on plenty of bedding compound, and screwed it into place. While
      > it's not flush, like the "Hamernik Hull Drain", it works just fine.
      >
    • rhaldridge
      ... I ve been debating the merits of stitch and glue vs. conventional chine log construction in a boat I m drawing. It s just occurred to me that an advantage
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 5, 2006
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        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Chris Crandall <crandall@...> wrote:
        >
        > Rob, no offense intended. The HHD solution is superior, no doubt about
        > it. But it's hard to do, with time and metal work, compared to putting
        > in the "kayak" drain.

        I've been debating the merits of stitch and glue vs. conventional
        chine log construction in a boat I'm drawing. It's just occurred to
        me that an advantage of the chine log technique is that in a
        flatbottom boat you could put a doubler piece on top of the log for
        strength, and then bore the drain hole sideways through the chine log,
        even with the inside bottom. Why wouldn't that work?

        Ray
      • David
        Ray, We built a Michael Storer Goat Island Skiff a while back. It s a 16 open plywood flattie skiff, built with chine logs. Here s a link to the first one
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 5, 2006
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          Ray,

          We built a Michael Storer Goat Island Skiff a while back. It's a 16'
          open plywood flattie skiff, built with chine logs. Here's a link to
          the first one built:

          "http://homepage.mac.com/peterhyndman/GISintro.htm"

          Last winter, we did exactly what you propose. It seems to work just
          fine. However, I still prefer Tom Hamernick's nifty drain solution for
          a flat-bottomed boat. It has three advantages that I can think of off
          the top of my head. First - it can be located at (or very near) the
          single low point of you boat. With the chine log sideways version,
          you're forced to tilt & rock the boat to direct the water to the drain
          - or perhaps put in two, one at each side. Not a huge deal. Second -
          Tom's design will drain All The Water. Ours leaves a bit of a puddle
          to be sponged out, and the inevitable bits of grit to be extracted.
          Finally - even with a doubler (which we used) you're still
          compromising the structural integrity of one of the primary members of
          your hull. Tom's does not. If anything, it reinforces the hull slightly.

          All told, if I'd seen his design before we did ours, I'd have used
          his. I've spoken to him sternly about accelerating the output of
          future nifty innovations, and I hope he is suitably chagrined <G> I
          certainly wouln't want this to happen again ];^) Now, it's always true
          that the flaws of something you've already built are easier to spot
          than the flaws in something theoretical. Nevertheless, I'm convinced
          Tom has come up with something quite ingenious.

          Cheers,
          David Graybeal
          Portland, OR

          "Always happy to share my ignorance, there's plenty to go around"

          ****************

          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "rhaldridge" <knobmaker@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Chris Crandall <crandall@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Rob, no offense intended. The HHD solution is superior, no doubt
          about
          > > it. But it's hard to do, with time and metal work, compared to
          putting
          > > in the "kayak" drain.
          >
          > I've been debating the merits of stitch and glue vs. conventional
          > chine log construction in a boat I'm drawing. It's just occurred to
          > me that an advantage of the chine log technique is that in a
          > flatbottom boat you could put a doubler piece on top of the log for
          > strength, and then bore the drain hole sideways through the chine log,
          > even with the inside bottom. Why wouldn't that work?
          >
          > Ray
        • Rob Rohde-Szudy
          Hah! I guess I m lucky that my lady is the speed freak. Much more likely that she ll dump us than me. I only had to forget the plugs once. In my defense, it
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 6, 2006
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            Hah! I guess I'm lucky that my lady is the speed freak. Much more likely that she'll dump us than me.

            I only had to forget the plugs once. In my defense, it was right after I installed them, so they weren't really in the mental list yet. Now I just leave them in unless it rains.

            Yeah, Madison is about perfect for these boats. Too bad lake Wingra is more duck cesspool than lake these days. Gotta start shooting those damned things.

            In any case, I guess I didn't think the HHD was all that hard one I got on the right track. BUt on the other hand I might be more used to metalwork than others. Certainly the kayak drain would be better with a lanyard replacing the "ladder".

            --Rob


            Re: Digest Number 1577
            Posted by: "Chris Crandall" crandall@... christiancrandall
            Date: Sat Aug 5, 2006 9:00 am (PDT)

            Rob, no offense intended. The HHD solution is superior, no doubt about
            it. But it's hard to do, with time and metal work, compared to putting
            in the "kayak" drain.

            One may cut off the "ladder" protrusion, of course, it's only there to
            keep it in place when opened. Tying off the plug would serve the same
            purpose, and would smooth out the waterflow.

            Madison waters are *ideal* for many of the Michalak boats, and I envy
            you your location. In fact, my only experience sinking a boat was in
            Lake Wingra--a beautiful day to sail, and we had a great day, but
            slowly
            the boat became harder to control, slower in stays, and water started
            slipping up over the gunwales into the footwell. Then, slowly, slowly,
            the boat leaned to leeward, the mast went down slowly, gently, until
            stuck in the mud of the lake. The boat livery had rented a boat with
            the
            plug taken out. This is one lesson I've learned.

            Did I mention that I brought along my friend who, despite her many fine
            qualities, did not know how to swim, and was somewhat afraid of the
            water? She had brought along her checkbook, too. My personal walk of
            shame was that afternoon, past each individual page of her duplicate
            checkbook, pegged to the clothesline.

            -Chris


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