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Re: Engine Question

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  • Rob Rohde-Szudy
    Sounds like the driveshaft splines aren t slipping into the socket on the powerhead. Or maybe something with the shift linkage. Or maybe that waterpump housing
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 1, 2006
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      Sounds like the driveshaft splines aren't slipping into the socket on the powerhead. Or maybe something with the shift linkage. Or maybe that waterpump housing still isn't right. But bear in mind I've never worked on a post-1973 engine.

      If you want to figure out what's hanging up, clean the parts well and mark the suspicious ones with black marker. Try to put it together and see where the ink transfers.

      --Rob



      Engine Question
      Posted by: "n8szy" rmariutto@... n8szy
      Date: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:46 am (PDT)

      Hi Everyone
      I have a outboard motor question that someone may have an answer for.
      I have a 1979 long shaft 6 Hp Evinrude that I bought at an Antique
      Outboard swap as a back up outboard for my AF4. Max's Duckworks
      articles got me thru the complete refurbishing process for this engine
      execpt for rebuilding the waterpump. I removed the pump and replaced
      the impeller, the gasket and the plate under the impeller. The plate
      was bent up and was the probable cause for the pump not pumping. Every
      thing went together great execpt that upper housing will not snug up to
      the lower housing. There is a 1/4" gap between the housings. I
      removed and replaced the lower lower end at least six times with the
      same result. Each time I turned the power head and upper housing upside
      down to rearrange the springs and bushings trapped up in power head
      area with a dowel rod. I don't want to force anything. Is there some
      secret that I am missing?

      Thanks for any help you can give me.
      Ron



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    • vexatious2001
      ... upper housing will not snug up to ... upside ... some ... Good evening: Did you have to disconnect the shift rod on this engine in order to drop the
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 1, 2006
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        > I have a 1979 long shaft 6 Hp Evinrude

        upper housing will not snug up to
        > the lower housing. There is a 1/4" gap between the housings. I
        > removed and replaced the lower lower end at least six times with the
        > same result. Each time I turned the power head and upper housing
        upside
        > down to rearrange the springs and bushings trapped up in power head
        > area with a dowel rod. I don't want to force anything. Is there
        some
        > secret that I am missing?
        >



        Good evening:

        Did you have to disconnect the shift rod on this
        engine in order to "drop" the lower unit?

        If not, then you have a version where the shift
        mechanism is spring-loaded to forward gear and the
        shift lever also needs to be in forward gear in
        order to re-install the lower unit.

        Is the water tube actually seating in it's seal
        or is it hitting the top of the water pump housing?

        On those engines where the power head has to be removed
        in order to disconnect the shift linkage and remove
        the lower unit, the driveshaft must be rotated for the
        pin at the top of the driveshaft (which the seal components
        rest on) can pass through a slot in the exhaust (tower)
        housing. The seal comoponents are then set on
        top of the driveshaft, the powerhead being off.

        Beyond that, the crankshaft splines may
        not be lined up, requiring that the prop be slowly turned
        9engine in gear) in order to align the splines.

        Yes, it can be frustrating getting the lower unit back
        on_ it often takes me 3 or 4 tries before I get everything
        lined up and in place. It helps to have the engine
        in a vertical ("tilted all the way down") position and as
        high off the ground as possible. Hang it up on a tall fence
        or something like that, so that the prop is at about face
        level.

        Let us know how it goes.



        Max
      • n8szy
        ... the ... head ... Hi Max Thanks for commenting on the reassembly of the 6 hp. Yes, I had to disconnect the shift shaft at the opening created when I removed
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 2, 2006
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          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vexatious2001" <cadbury112@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > > I have a 1979 long shaft 6 Hp Evinrude
          >
          > upper housing will not snug up to
          > > the lower housing. There is a 1/4" gap between the housings. I
          > > removed and replaced the lower lower end at least six times with
          the
          > > same result. Each time I turned the power head and upper housing
          > upside
          > > down to rearrange the springs and bushings trapped up in power
          head
          > > area with a dowel rod. I don't want to force anything. Is there
          > some
          > > secret that I am missing?
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Good evening:
          >
          > Did you have to disconnect the shift rod on this
          > engine in order to "drop" the lower unit?
          >
          > If not, then you have a version where the shift
          > mechanism is spring-loaded to forward gear and the
          > shift lever also needs to be in forward gear in
          > order to re-install the lower unit.
          >
          > Is the water tube actually seating in it's seal
          > or is it hitting the top of the water pump housing?
          >
          > On those engines where the power head has to be removed
          > in order to disconnect the shift linkage and remove
          > the lower unit, the driveshaft must be rotated for the
          > pin at the top of the driveshaft (which the seal components
          > rest on) can pass through a slot in the exhaust (tower)
          > housing. The seal comoponents are then set on
          > top of the driveshaft, the powerhead being off.
          >
          > Beyond that, the crankshaft splines may
          > not be lined up, requiring that the prop be slowly turned
          > 9engine in gear) in order to align the splines.
          >
          > Yes, it can be frustrating getting the lower unit back
          > on_ it often takes me 3 or 4 tries before I get everything
          > lined up and in place. It helps to have the engine
          > in a vertical ("tilted all the way down") position and as
          > high off the ground as possible. Hang it up on a tall fence
          > or something like that, so that the prop is at about face
          > level.
          >
          > Let us know how it goes.
          >
          >
          >
          > Max


          Hi Max
          Thanks for commenting on the reassembly of the 6 hp.

          Yes, I had to disconnect the shift shaft at the opening created when
          I removed the four screws from the lower unit and slid the exhaust
          housing down to expose the coupling connector screw.

          Yes, the pump tube went into the pump grommet all seven times I
          reassembled the unit. I noticed thet there is a sequence to
          reassemble the lower unit to the exhaust housing: 1) slip pump tube
          into pump gromet, 2) slide housing up a little and attach shift
          connector, 3) slide splined power shaft up into the power head.

          Yes, I initially thought that the splines were catching on the mating
          splines in the power head so I 'stoned' all the sharp spline edges on
          the shaft.

          I noticed that the roll pin on the top of the shaft may fit in a slot
          on the housing casting where the shaft enteres the power head so I
          pulled the starter rope and prop as I wiggled the lower unit and
          gently pushed up to seat the castings together. It went easily
          together but stopped leaving a 1/4" gap between the housings.

          What sorta scares me is the spring and bushings that are captured by
          the exhaust housing in the area where the splined shaft is supposed
          to go up in the power head. When I turned the motor upside down and
          focused the beam of the flashlight on the splined area, I found the
          spring and bushing had rotated and blocked the path that the shaft
          would have to go. I grabbed a 1/4" dowel rod and realigned the
          spring and bushing the best I could. The washer or spring could be
          catching on the shaft stopping it from seating all the way. I really
          don't want to tear down the rest of the outboard to realign these
          parts.

          I followed the rest of of the things you suggested ie rotating the
          prop and pulling the starter chord a bit as the units were pushed
          together. The outbord is mounted on a stand that is clamped to two
          saw horses so the pump is a about eye level.

          I tried to follow the two complete build up articles that you wrote,
          the OMC 5.5 and big twin. Parts of each article applied to the 6HP
          but it didn't exactly resemble either one in all details. O yeah, I
          have a 'shop manual' of 6 or 7 pages that I copied from a general
          outboard manual of that period.

          The last time I replaced a pump impeller on the 8hp Johnson, I though
          that I placed a spring, a washer and a busing on the splined shaft
          above the roll pin but I can't on this one since these parts are
          captured by the exhaust housing. Thanks for any other suggestions
          that you think of, I am stumped.

          Thanks again Max,
          Ron
        • rmariutto@aol.com
          Hi Rob Thanks for the suggestions, This 6Hp motor does not look quite like the older motors that you and I have worked on. The last time I changed a water
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 2, 2006
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            Hi Rob
            Thanks for the suggestions, This 6Hp motor does not look quite like the older
            motors that you and I have worked on. The last time I changed a water pump
            on an older OMC I stacked a washer, a spring and a bushing on the splined shaft
            above the roll pin. On this model those pieces are captured in the exhaust
            housing by the power head. Even though I didn't move the engine, the pieces
            got out of alignment when I tried to align the shaft with the power head. I
            tried to straighten the pieces with a three foot 1/4" dowel rod with little
            success.

            I liked your article in Duck Works about putting drains in thin plywood
            sheathed hulls. This winter I will put them in my AF4. Two weeks ago I took my
            AF4 180 miles to Delaware Lake State Park in Ohio. On Saturday night it poured
            in torrents for six hours. The next morning I had to bail out about fifty
            gallons of water out of the cockpit and cabin. Those drains would have come in
            real handy.

            Thanks again Rob
            Ron


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rob Rohde-Szudy
            Hey Ron, I hope you copied from a SELOC manual. I ve compared them and the other ones are damned near useless. It s like comparing an automotive Bentley manual
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 3, 2006
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              Hey Ron, I hope you copied from a SELOC manual. I've compared them and the other ones are damned near useless. It's like comparing an automotive Bentley manual to a Haynes. ("Heinous", as I call them.) Seloc manuals actually EXPLAIN the procedures. They're worth the money. I just checked one out of the library that covers my motor (after a looooon wait...) and I now know I need to buy one.
              --Rob


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • vexatious2001
              This 6Hp motor does not look quite like the older ... Even though I didn t move the engine, the pieces ... power head. I ... with little ... The only other
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 3, 2006
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                This 6Hp motor does not look quite like the older
                > motors that you and I have worked on.

                Even though I didn't move the engine, the pieces
                > got out of alignment when I tried to align the shaft with the
                power head. I
                > tried to straighten the pieces with a three foot 1/4" dowel rod
                with little
                > success.




                The only other item which comes to mind is that the
                shift shaft might not be fully seating in the coupler.

                If you feel certain that the interference is at the
                top of the driveshaft, you may have to remove the
                power head to sort things out; a bigger job on this
                relatively "new" engine than on the earlier models but
                not a real big problem.

                Max
              • vexatious2001
                I ... One other suggestion: try using a 1/2 inch dowell rod, which is much closer to the diameter of the driveshaft, and leave the rod inserted until the motor
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 4, 2006
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                  I
                  > > tried to straighten the pieces with a three foot 1/4" dowel rod
                  > with little
                  > > success.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  One other suggestion: try using a 1/2 inch dowell
                  rod, which is much closer to the diameter of the
                  driveshaft, and leave the rod inserted until the
                  motor is upright and vertical, and you are ready
                  in install the lower unit.

                  You might need to carve a bit of chamfer on the
                  tip of the 1/2" rod.


                  Max
                • antec007
                  Out here in Oregon a lot of drift boaters us a cast bronze drain with screw in plug mounted at the lowest place in the boat while on the trailer. If you
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 8, 2006
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                    Out here in Oregon a lot of drift boaters us a cast bronze drain with
                    screw in plug mounted at the lowest place in the boat while on the
                    trailer.
                    If you remember to screw in the plug there's very little chance of it
                    working loose.
                    The casting is supposed to be let into the inside of the boat and fit
                    flush with the inside bottom, but requires at least 1/2" of material,
                    but the place it is inserted can be doubled up if placed in a corner
                    where water cannot pool behind the drain opening.

                    But, after having a heavy 20' glass cabin cruiser almost sink out from
                    under me as a result of a drain plug failure because of a freak
                    occurrence, I've decided to Not put Any holes in my boats below the
                    water line.
                    When not in the water I try to keep my boats under cover (I have
                    several of those "Tent Garages" just for storing my many boats), but
                    when I do forget and find a cockpit full of water I just get out my
                    dedicated short length of garden hose and siphon out most of the water.
                    To get the last little bit I use a "Water Squirter" that when not
                    being used to drench other boaters works great as a small "Bilge Pump"
                    and will get nearly all the water the siphon hose doesn't get.

                    After the Near Sinking and the numerous "Oh No, I Forgot to put in the
                    drain plug." I no longer have those worries and can handle the
                    infrequent rainstorms. (It is amazing how much water gets in a boat
                    from what seems like just a Little Rain.)

                    Just My Two Cents Worth
                    Have Fun
                    Stay Dry
                    Pat Patteson
                    Molalla, Oregon

                    Thinking about building a Michalak Boat





                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, rmariutto@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Rob
                    > Thanks for the suggestions, This 6Hp motor does not look quite like
                    the older
                    > motors that you and I have worked on. The last time I changed a
                    water pump
                    > on an older OMC I stacked a washer, a spring and a bushing on the
                    splined shaft
                    > above the roll pin. On this model those pieces are captured in the
                    exhaust
                    > housing by the power head. Even though I didn't move the engine,
                    the pieces
                    > got out of alignment when I tried to align the shaft with the power
                    head. I
                    > tried to straighten the pieces with a three foot 1/4" dowel rod with
                    little
                    > success.
                    >
                    > I liked your article in Duck Works about putting drains in thin plywood
                    > sheathed hulls. This winter I will put them in my AF4. Two weeks
                    ago I took my
                    > AF4 180 miles to Delaware Lake State Park in Ohio. On Saturday
                    night it poured
                    > in torrents for six hours. The next morning I had to bail out about
                    fifty
                    > gallons of water out of the cockpit and cabin. Those drains would
                    have come in
                    > real handy.
                    >
                    > Thanks again Rob
                    > Ron
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • vexatious2001
                    ... with ... Out here in Miss-ur-a (Missouri) a lot of us drifting boaters use cheap plastic versions of the above. ... from ... A common sentiment. But it
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 9, 2006
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                      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "antec007" <pateson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Out here in Oregon a lot of drift boaters us a cast bronze drain
                      with
                      > screw in plug mounted at the lowest place in the boat while on the
                      > trailer.



                      Out here in Miss-ur-a (Missouri) a lot of us "drifting" boaters
                      use cheap plastic versions of the above.



                      > But, after having a heavy 20' glass cabin cruiser almost sink out
                      from
                      > under me as a result of a drain plug failure because of a freak
                      > occurrence, I've decided to Not put Any holes in my boats below the
                      > water line.



                      A common sentiment. But it does not bother me to have numerous
                      drain plugs in a boat. I would be more concerned with an open
                      cooling water line to an inboard engine, or a suction line to
                      a head, than a drain plug. Then you are depending upon
                      the integrity of a rubber hose keeping your boat afloat.

                      Max


                      Max
                    • antec007
                      Not to belabor the point, But, I m always amazed at how my Multi-Thousand Dollar boats rely on a $2 drain plug, made in China from recycled tin cans. When
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 11, 2006
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                        Not to belabor the point,
                        But,
                        I'm always amazed at how my Multi-Thousand Dollar boats rely on
                        a $2 drain plug, made in China from recycled tin cans. <g>


                        When my Cabin Cruiser was going down I was Sure the outdrive boot had
                        sprung a leak because the water was coming in so fast.
                        Kay was standing calf deep in water, bailing with a 5 gallon bucket
                        and was having a hard time keeping up.
                        I was panicking, trying to keep my Kicker Running and trying to find a
                        shallow place to beach the boat. This is a mountain reservoir and is
                        40-50 feet deep just 10 feet from shore.
                        Finally flagged down a big cruiser and was towed to the dock.
                        We were shocked when we finally pulled the boat out of the water and
                        saw water coming out of Just the drain hole.
                        Had I Known it was the drain I could have jumped in and plugged the
                        hole from the outside. I did carry Spare Drain Plugs.

                        If I Were to put a drain in a boat I would put it somewhere visible
                        from inside the boat and easily accessible.

                        Thanks Max
                        Pat



                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vexatious2001" <cadbury112@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "antec007" <pateson@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Out here in Oregon a lot of drift boaters us a cast bronze drain
                        > with
                        > > screw in plug mounted at the lowest place in the boat while on the
                        > > trailer.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Out here in Miss-ur-a (Missouri) a lot of us "drifting" boaters
                        > use cheap plastic versions of the above.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > But, after having a heavy 20' glass cabin cruiser almost sink out
                        > from
                        > > under me as a result of a drain plug failure because of a freak
                        > > occurrence, I've decided to Not put Any holes in my boats below the
                        > > water line.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > A common sentiment. But it does not bother me to have numerous
                        > drain plugs in a boat. I would be more concerned with an open
                        > cooling water line to an inboard engine, or a suction line to
                        > a head, than a drain plug. Then you are depending upon
                        > the integrity of a rubber hose keeping your boat afloat.
                        >
                        > Max
                        >
                        >
                        > Max
                        >
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