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Re: Paddling a Toto

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  • Joe Tribulato
    Eric: Look at my Duckworks article on Le Petit Bateau. The cut down resin chair, foot brace and 8ft paddle with no offset have worked well for me. Link:
    Message 1 of 12 , May 31, 2006
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      Eric:

      Look at my Duckworks article on Le Petit Bateau. The cut down resin
      chair, foot brace and 8ft paddle with no offset have worked well for
      me. Link:
      http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/designs/tribulato/pirogue/index.cfm
      All my flat botttom boats need a skeg to function.

      Joe T

      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, eric S <u23b_2311@...> wrote
      >
      > I took my TOTO out for a solo paddle Sunday for the
      > first time. I built a ninety degree offset double
      > paddle as called for in Jim's plans.
      >
      > I kept hitting the sides of the boat with the handle
      > of the paddles so I think the paddles need to be a bit
      > longer. I may add a foot to the paddle and also reduce
      > to offset to 30 degrees or so.
      >
      > As I paddled I had a hard time keeping a straight
      > course. I pretty much zig zagged my way up and back
      > down the river,,,
      >
      > Would a keel make the Toto track straighter?
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > eric
    • buildboats
      On my Toto I used a milk crate against the bulkhead then a regular boat cushion against it for padding as a backrest, I also used a second boat cushion to sit
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 1, 2006
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        On my Toto I used a milk crate against the bulkhead then a regular
        boat cushion against it for padding as a backrest, I also used a
        second boat cushion to sit on, rasied me up and made it
        comfortable. The milk crate was also good to keep a small cooler,
        tackle box etc.

        Tom


        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, eric S <u23b_2311@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I took my TOTO out for a solo paddle Sunday for the
        > first time. I built a ninety degree offset double
        > paddle as called for in Jim's plans.
        >
        > I kept hitting the sides of the boat with the handle
        > of the paddles so I think the paddles need to be a bit
        > longer. I may add a foot to the paddle and also reduce
        > to offset to 30 degrees or so.
        >
        > As I paddled I had a hard time keeping a straight
        > course. I pretty much zig zagged my way up and back
        > down the river,,,
        >
        > Would a keel make the Toto track straighter?
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > eric
        >
        >
        >
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      • adventures_in_astrophotography
        Hi Eric, ... I ve built and paddled two Totos, and in my view the skeg shown on the plans is inadequate. If I were doing it again, I d make the skeg shorter
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 1, 2006
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          Hi Eric,

          > I installed the Skeg as called for in the Plans.

          I've built and paddled two Totos, and in my view the skeg shown on
          the plans is inadequate. If I were doing it again, I'd make the skeg
          shorter lengthwise and as deep as possbile without going any deeper
          than the belly of the boat. It would also help to fair the skeg
          leading and trailing edges. I made a skeg like this (short, deep,
          and faired) for Robote, and it tracks beautifully. That result has
          me tempted to cut the skegs off my Totos and replace them.

          > I do need to come up with some type of seat and back
          > support.

          Bolger, among others, strongly recommends against using a backrest
          for double paddling. He claims it will cause lower back pain. I
          like the idea of a backrest close behind, but not supporting my back
          until I lean back to take a break. A duffle and a boat cushion or
          two work well. I also found that just leaning back against the aft
          bulkhead while wearing a PFD provides a comfortable resting/drifting
          position.

          Jon Kolb
          www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
        • Rob Rohde-Szudy
          I think your problem is mostly technique. I should know, since I seem to have the same problem. First, I can t see much reason for an offset paddle unless
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 1, 2006
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            I think your problem is mostly technique. I should know, since I seem to have the same problem. First, I can't see much reason for an offset paddle unless you're paddling into a strong wind, and the offset seems harder on the wrists. Here's the main trick. You're trying to make it work with the paddle as horizontal as possible, and that's not wha Toto is designed for. She's meant to be paddled with the paddle quite close to vertical. Almost like a single paddle that you can flip to switch sides. This brings the thrust in closer, which yaws the boat much less. I hate how this gets me wet, so I actually find a single paddle more civilized in Toto. With the trust brought in closer, the skeg is enough as designed. To paddle "flatter", you need a bigger skeg, a higher seat, and probably a narrower boat! --Rob


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          • eric S
            Thanks to all who responded I will try a longer paddle with no offset and some type of seat setup. I am not sure I really want to sit any higher in the boat. I
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 1, 2006
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              Thanks to all who responded

              I will try a longer paddle with no offset and some
              type of seat setup. I am not sure I really want to sit
              any higher in the boat. I was sitting on a throwable
              cushion when I was paddling... I may have been doing
              some type of "J" stroke so as the paddle left the
              water at the end of the stroke is was pushing to the
              side instead of the back..


              Joe thanks for the link below... I love your boats...

              eric

              --- Joe Tribulato <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:

              > Eric:
              >
              > Look at my Duckworks article on Le Petit Bateau. The
              > cut down resin
              > chair, foot brace and 8ft paddle with no offset have
              > worked well for
              > me. Link:
              >
              http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/designs/tribulato/pirogue/index.cfm
              > All my flat botttom boats need a skeg to function.
              >
              > Joe T
              >


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            • Chris Hill
              As an experienced double-paddler in both whitewater boats (which turn even when you don t want to) and sea kayaks (which track straight for 50 yards without
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 1, 2006
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                As an experienced double-paddler in both whitewater boats (which turn
                even when you don't want to) and sea kayaks (which track straight for
                50 yards without any stroking), I'll just say... see what Rob said. I
                think he nailed it. And as for the drip-on-your-lap problem,
                seakayakers sometimes put little rubber cuffs on the paddles about a
                foot inboard of the blade to prevent that.

                Well, I'll add one more thing to Rob's advice - those squiggles in the
                wake will eventually straighten out even without a skeg. It helps if
                you maintain a steady rhythm while paddling. Steady gentle stroking
                rather than giant lunges and occasional big corrections. Tiny
                corrections become part of your stroke, kind of like riding a bicycle.
                But a skeg will make things simpler on flatwater.

                Chris

                On Thursday, June 1, 2006, at 09:37 AM, Rob Rohde-Szudy wrote:

                > I think your problem is mostly technique. I should know, since I seem
                > to have the same problem. First, I can't see much reason for an offset
                > paddle unless you're paddling into a strong wind, and the offset seems
                > harder on the wrists. Here's the main trick. You're trying to make it
                > work with the paddle as horizontal as possible, and that's not wha
                > Toto is designed for. She's meant to be paddled with the paddle quite
                > close to vertical. Almost like a single paddle that you can flip to
                > switch sides. This brings the thrust in closer, which yaws the boat
                > much less. I hate how this gets me wet, so I actually find a single
                > paddle more civilized in Toto. With the trust brought in closer, the
                > skeg is enough as designed. To paddle "flatter", you need a bigger
                > skeg, a higher seat, and probably a narrower boat! --Rob
                >
                >
              • GarthAB
                Eric -- Last year we took Cormorant up to Indian Lake (probably passing within 15 miles of your house on the way up Rt. 30), but this year we dropped that trip
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 1, 2006
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                  Eric --

                  Last year we took Cormorant up to Indian Lake (probably passing within
                  15 miles of your house on the way up Rt. 30), but this year we dropped
                  that trip in favor of an August cruise in Maine (Penobscot Bay), plus
                  Cape Cod in July. There's a chance we'll do a late-season weekend on
                  Sacandaga.

                  I'd love to see the AF4G some day, somehow.

                  In any case -- happy boating!

                  All best,
                  Garth




                  > Garth,, Maybe we can catch up to you this summer if
                  > you are out sailing..
                  >
                  > eric
                  >
                  > Erie Canal Lock 9
                  >
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