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Re: [Michalak] Re: AF4 Seats

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  • John Bell
    I meant to say at the seat edge and the chine . Kind of like a knee. ... From: mrusson To: Sent: Monday,
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 7 7:42 PM
      I meant to say "at the seat edge and the chine". Kind of like a knee.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "mrusson" <mrusson@...>
      To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:38 PM
      Subject: [Michalak] Re: AF4 Seats


      | John,
      | Thanks a ton for that image. I always appreciate good images like
      | that to illustrate a point. It helps me to visualize the job a bit
      | better. I can see your suggestion on that floor support. If i read it
      | correctly, you would only attach the support at the seat edge, and
      | just let it float at the floor level? I can see the benefit due to a
      | bit of hull flexing. A secured base would eventually rip from the ply
      | causing a problem. It might require a bit of beefing up at the seat
      | so as to prevent it from being kicked sideways and broken from the
      | seat. I love forums. They always give me good info. Thanks John !!
      |
      | M Russon
      |
      |
      |
      |
      | --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
      | wrote:
      | >
      | > Looking at the photos, I see that the inside edge frame was from
      | 1x3.
      | >
      | > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/AF4_Launch/MVC-017S.JPG is the
      | only
      | > picuture I have that shows much detail. The only change I suggest
      | over what
      | > is shown is that the center support should attach at the and inside
      | seat
      | > edge only. Where I'd screwed and glued the framing to the bottom of
      | the boat
      | > was coming apart due to the bottom's flexing.
      | >
      | > I've been in a couple of AF4's now, both with and without seats.
      | With was
      | > much better, IMO. Jim is minimalist to a fault. Not everyone (me!)
      | can stand
      | > that much minimalism! <grin>
      | >
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      | Yahoo! Groups Links
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
    • John Bell
      Found some more photos of the framing: http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/JB_AF4_2.jpg http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/JB_AF4_3.jpg ... From: John
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 7 7:46 PM
        Found some more photos of the framing:

        http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/JB_AF4_2.jpg
        http://mistermoon.home.mindspring.com/JB_AF4_3.jpg

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@...>
        To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:42 PM
        Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: AF4 Seats


        | I meant to say "at the seat edge and the chine". Kind of like a knee.
        |
        |
        | ----- Original Message -----
        | From: "mrusson" <mrusson@...>
        | To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
        | Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:38 PM
        | Subject: [Michalak] Re: AF4 Seats
        |
        |
        | | John,
        | | Thanks a ton for that image. I always appreciate good images like
        | | that to illustrate a point. It helps me to visualize the job a bit
        | | better. I can see your suggestion on that floor support. If i read it
        | | correctly, you would only attach the support at the seat edge, and
        | | just let it float at the floor level? I can see the benefit due to a
        | | bit of hull flexing. A secured base would eventually rip from the ply
        | | causing a problem. It might require a bit of beefing up at the seat
        | | so as to prevent it from being kicked sideways and broken from the
        | | seat. I love forums. They always give me good info. Thanks John !!
        | |
        | | M Russon
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | | --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
        | | wrote:
        | | >
        | | > Looking at the photos, I see that the inside edge frame was from
        | | 1x3.
        | | >
        | | > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/AF4_Launch/MVC-017S.JPG is the
        | | only
        | | > picuture I have that shows much detail. The only change I suggest
        | | over what
        | | > is shown is that the center support should attach at the and inside
        | | seat
        | | > edge only. Where I'd screwed and glued the framing to the bottom of
        | | the boat
        | | > was coming apart due to the bottom's flexing.
        | | >
        | | > I've been in a couple of AF4's now, both with and without seats.
        | | With was
        | | > much better, IMO. Jim is minimalist to a fault. Not everyone (me!)
        | | can stand
        | | > that much minimalism! <grin>
        | | >
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | | Yahoo! Groups Links
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        | |
        |
        |
        |
        |
        |
        | Yahoo! Groups Links
        |
        |
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      • John Bell
        And finally, hinging them down sounds like a bad idea to me. It would make the seats too narrow, IMHO. Build them fixed. It s easier and I don t think you ll
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 7 7:55 PM
          And finally, hinging them down sounds like a bad idea to me. It would make
          the seats too narrow, IMHO. Build them fixed. It's easier and I don't think
          you'll find much need to change them. I think mine were 14" off the floor,
          I'd raise them 1.5". And I'd angle the bottoms a bit so that rainwater will
          wash to a scupper in the aft topsides. Angling them will keep most of the
          rainwater out of the cockpit. Mine were dead flat and it meant more bailing
          in a downpour.

          The seats also proved handy dockside as a step up and down to the cockpit
          floor. And if you need to go to the edge to haul in a big 'un, just kneel.
          That's how we did it!

          JB



          The seats
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "mrusson" <mrusson@...>
          To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:31 PM
          Subject: [Michalak] Re: AF4 Seats


          | John,
          | Thanks for the reply. I agree with you on the curvature issues. I
          | like the fold down tailgate style idea. I will have to look at the
          | best place to attach something at the gunwales. I worry a bit about
          | side hull flexing, so i might have to explore a full length support
          | behind the seat to hinge from. This could be a bit tricky to template
          | due to the curvature, but a few cardboard templates and i'm there. I
          | also like the comfortable seat idea. As much as i hate to admit it, i
          | like to be able to sit down once in awhile. Did i just say i was
          | getting old?...(wink)
          |
          | M Russon
          |
          |
          |
          |
          |
          | --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
          | <John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
          | >
          | > I haven't seen John's boat, but I assume we're talking about seats
          | which run
          | > fore and aft the length of the cockpit. I also infer that you want
          | to set
          | > the seats up so they are hinged on the sides of the boat and fold
          | down.
          | > This can be tricky, because (a) the boat's sides are curved, (b)
          | the
          | > bulkheads in the front and back of the cockpit are not at right
          | angles to
          | > the sides, and (c) the width of the seats must be no wider than the
          | height
          | > of the seat above the cockpit floor at its shallowest point.
          | >
          | > One possibility might be shorter seats held up by cables from the
          | > gunwale--sort of like a pick up truck's tail gate.
          | >
          | > Jim Michalak advocates the flexibility and utility of cockpits
          | which are
          | > unobstructed by seats. There is certainly merit to his position,
          | but as an
          | > older guy, I surely do appreciate comfortable seats!
          | >
          | > John T
          | > ----- Original Message -----
          | > From: "mrusson" <mrusson@g...>
          | > To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
          | > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:24 PM
          | > Subject: [Michalak] AF4 Seats
          |
          |
          |
          |
          |
          |
          |
          |
          | Yahoo! Groups Links
          |
          |
          |
          |
          |
          |
          |
        • robrohdeszudy
          I know what you mean about Jim being minimalist to a fault, but I think he might be right about the seats. To me, that folding lawn chair of his looks WAY more
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 8 8:10 AM
            I know what you mean about Jim being minimalist to a fault, but I think
            he might be right about the seats. To me, that folding lawn chair of
            his looks WAY more comfy than any "boat seat" I've ever been on. And it
            works ashore too, so one less thing to carry. Two lawnchairs and a
            cooler between 'em for an end table. Makes me want to jump right into a
            Corona commercial.
            --Rob
          • Tim Lehman
            I gotta agree with you on that one, Rob. But I like the extendable seats that Chuck has on his Ladybug. Just the thing to stretch out for a short nap in a
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 8 8:27 AM
              I gotta agree with you on that one, Rob. But I like the extendable seats that Chuck has on his Ladybug. Just the thing to stretch out for a short nap in a shady cove.

              Tim

              robrohdeszudy <robrohdeszudy@...> wrote:
              I know what you mean about Jim being minimalist to a fault, but I think
              he might be right about the seats. To me, that folding lawn chair of
              his looks WAY more comfy than any "boat seat" I've ever been on. And it
              works ashore too, so one less thing to carry. Two lawnchairs and a
              cooler between 'em for an end table. Makes me want to jump right into a
              Corona commercial.
              --Rob






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            • John Bell
              It s only my opinion, but, I ve done it both ways, and I found having seats was WAY better than the clutter of lawn chairs. Different strokes for different
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 8 8:32 AM
                It's only my opinion, but, I've done it both ways, and I found having seats
                was WAY better than the clutter of lawn chairs.

                Different strokes for different folks...


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "robrohdeszudy" <robrohdeszudy@...>
                To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:10 AM
                Subject: [Michalak] Re: AF4 Seats


                > I know what you mean about Jim being minimalist to a fault, but I think
                > he might be right about the seats. To me, that folding lawn chair of
                > his looks WAY more comfy than any "boat seat" I've ever been on. And it
                > works ashore too, so one less thing to carry. Two lawnchairs and a
                > cooler between 'em for an end table. Makes me want to jump right into a
                > Corona commercial.
                > --Rob
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • mrusson
                Does Chuck have any images located here that i could take a peak at? That would be cool. HEY CHUCK got any photos? (smile) M Russon ... seats that Chuck
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 8 8:45 AM
                  Does Chuck have any images located here that i could take a peak at?
                  That would be cool. HEY CHUCK>>>>>>got any photos? (smile)

                  M Russon





                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Tim Lehman <timlehman52@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I gotta agree with you on that one, Rob. But I like the extendable
                  seats that Chuck has on his Ladybug. Just the thing to stretch out
                  for a short nap in a shady cove.
                  >
                  > Tim
                  >
                  > robrohdeszudy <robrohdeszudy@y...> wrote:
                  > I know what you mean about Jim being minimalist to a fault, but I
                  think
                  > he might be right about the seats. To me, that folding lawn chair
                  of
                  > his looks WAY more comfy than any "boat seat" I've ever been on.
                  And it
                  > works ashore too, so one less thing to carry. Two lawnchairs and a
                  > cooler between 'em for an end table. Makes me want to jump right
                  into a
                  > Corona commercial.
                  > --Rob
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  >
                  > Visit your group "Michalak" on the web.
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Chuck Leinweber
                  Try the bottom of this page, Mike: HYPERLINK http://www.shortypen.com/events/indian1/page4.htm http://www.shortypen.com/ events/indian1/page4.htm Chuck ... --
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 8 9:03 AM
                    Try the bottom of this page, Mike:



                    HYPERLINK
                    "http://www.shortypen.com/events/indian1/page4.htm"http://www.shortypen.com/
                    events/indian1/page4.htm



                    Chuck





                    > Does Chuck have any images located here that i could take a peak at?

                    > That would be cool. HEY CHUCK>>>>>>got any photos? (smile)

                    >

                    > M Russon

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >


                    --
                    No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chuck Leinweber
                    Anyone else have trouble sending links from Outlook to Yahoo? Let s try again: http://www.shortypen.com/events/indian1/page4.htm Chuck ... -- No virus found
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 8 10:04 AM
                      Anyone else have trouble sending links from Outlook to Yahoo? Let's try
                      again:

                      http://www.shortypen.com/events/indian1/page4.htm

                      Chuck

                      >
                      > Try the bottom of this page, Mike:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > HYPERLINK
                      > "http://www.shortypen.com/events/indian1/page4.htm"http://www.shortypen.co
                      > m/
                      > events/indian1/page4.htm
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Chuck
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > Does Chuck have any images located here that i could take a peak at?
                      >
                      > > That would be cool. HEY CHUCK>>>>>>got any photos? (smile)
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > M Russon
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005
                      >

                      --
                      No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005
                    • awellbalancedgun
                      I love that seat solution, too. Chuck - have you added the center support mentioned in the captions? Also, that $100 figure has me wondering what exactly
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 8 11:34 AM
                        I love that seat solution, too. Chuck - have you added the center
                        support mentioned in the captions?

                        Also, that $100 figure has me wondering what exactly constitutes
                        the "hull"?

                        TJH

                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Anyone else have trouble sending links from Outlook to Yahoo?
                        Let's try
                        > again:
                        >
                        > http://www.shortypen.com/events/indian1/page4.htm
                        >
                        > Chuck
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Try the bottom of this page, Mike:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > HYPERLINK
                        >
                        > "http://www.shortypen.com/events/indian1/page4.htm"http://www.short
                        ypen.co
                        > > m/
                        > > events/indian1/page4.htm
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Chuck
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Does Chuck have any images located here that i could take a
                        peak at?
                        > >
                        > > > That would be cool. HEY CHUCK>>>>>>got any photos? (smile)
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > > M Russon
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date:
                        11/5/2005
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date:
                        11/5/2005
                        > >
                        >
                        > --
                        > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date:
                        11/5/2005
                        >
                      • Chuck Leinweber
                        Tom: No, I m still using blocks I m afraid. Having spent a couple of nights on the boat in rough conditions, we are a lot more likely to set our tent up ashore
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 8 11:54 AM
                          Tom:

                          No, I'm still using blocks I'm afraid. Having spent a couple of nights on
                          the boat in rough conditions, we are a lot more likely to set our tent up
                          ashore now. Still, it's nice to have the option.

                          "Hull" does not include rudder, leeboard, mast, sails, or seat, but does
                          include all bulkheads and decks. It's Luan construction with epoxy on the
                          seams and one thinned coat everywhere else. I used Bondo to fair the seams
                          and some nice porch & floor enamel for paint.

                          Chuck


                          > I love that seat solution, too. Chuck - have you added the center
                          > support mentioned in the captions?
                          >
                          > Also, that $100 figure has me wondering what exactly constitutes
                          > the "hull"?
                          >
                          > TJH
                          >

                          --
                          No virus found in this outgoing message.
                          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005
                        • mrusson
                          Chuck, Thanks a ton for that website. I like the extension cot idea. Man i have a brain cramp thinking about all these ideas. Thanks again. M Russon ...
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 8 2:11 PM
                            Chuck,
                            Thanks a ton for that website. I like the extension cot idea. Man i
                            have a brain cramp thinking about all these ideas. Thanks again.

                            M Russon




                            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Try the bottom of this page, Mike:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > HYPERLINK
                            > "http://www.shortypen.com/events/indian1/page4.htm"http://www.shorty
                            pen.com/
                            > events/indian1/page4.htm
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Chuck
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > Does Chuck have any images located here that i could take a peak
                            at?
                            >
                            > > That would be cool. HEY CHUCK>>>>>>got any photos? (smile)
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > M Russon
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                            > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date:
                            11/5/2005
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • lindburly@aol.com
                            In a message dated 11/7/05 3:37:01 PM Central Standard Time, mrusson@gmail.com writes: Dear Group, After looking at John Bells AF4, which was a beauty, I
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 8 8:29 PM
                              In a message dated 11/7/05 3:37:01 PM Central Standard Time,
                              mrusson@... writes:
                              Dear Group,
                              After looking at John Bells AF4, which was a beauty, I decided i
                              liked the seats he put in. John said he loved the seats, and i agree
                              with him. My question is, what about seats that can hinge up out of the
                              way, and fold down when needed? I could attach a cleat to the side of
                              the hull down port and starboard sides. The seats could hinge from these
                              cleats and fold down, dropping into two stops at the fore and aft
                              bulkheads. The seats would be nice to sit and relax on, but could be
                              folded up for room to net the big one over the side. Any thoughts as to
                              the materials for the seats? I have seen 2x4's used, i have seen 1x2's
                              used. etc. Thanks for the feedback.
                              The seating method I used in Arcebus worked well. I scribed 1/2" plywood to
                              match the curve of the side and laid it on 1X2 ledgers on each bulkhead and a
                              couple of 1X1 pieces glued vertically to the sides to support the back of the
                              seat. The middle front is supported by a folding leg using a latching hinge
                              that is designed for that sort of thing that I picked up at Rockler. When in
                              the down position, they are pinned in place by a couple of 10 penny nails that
                              I slide through the seat into holes in the side ledger supports. When I want
                              to fold them up, I just remove the pins and stand them up on their supports so
                              that they are vertical against the sides of the hull -- nothing fancy
                              required.

                              The seats are about 10" off the floor in the front and angle down somewhat in
                              the back -- something I highly recommend to keep the pressure off your
                              tailbone and to help you stay in your seat when heeling.

                              Regards,
                              Greg

                              http://arcebus.net


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • robrohdeszudy
                              Cheap folding beach lounge chair. Chuck s seats do look damned clever, but nothing beats the comfort of those cheap lounge chairs. And they re light and fold
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 9 6:53 AM
                                Cheap folding beach lounge chair. Chuck's seats do look damned
                                clever, but nothing beats the comfort of those cheap lounge chairs.
                                And they're light and fold out of the way. I say you can't beat that.

                                I think I'd only build seats into a SAILBOAT when you need a solid
                                place to plant your butt on each side. But it's damned hard to design
                                something that keeps your weight in the right place AND is
                                comfortable. Side decks are OK, but mine are complicated by coamings
                                and oars. Thwarts, of course, are hard and don't get you as far
                                outbaord as side decks.

                                In a powerboat where you're mostly going 10-15 mph, I think I'd stick
                                with comfy, lightweight seats that fold out of the way. Of course
                                really HIGH speeds might require something more solid.

                                --Rob


                                --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Tim Lehman <timlehman52@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I gotta agree with you on that one, Rob. But I like the extendable
                                seats that Chuck has on his Ladybug. Just the thing to stretch out
                                for a short nap in a shady cove.
                                >
                                > Tim
                                >
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