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24938Re: Advice on bottom thickness of piccup pram

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  • Mike
    Jun 4 11:01 AM
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      Nels,
      I couldn't agree more. The response and suggestions have been tremendous and provided insight into the pros and cons of different methods that I wouldn't have had access to on my own.
      I think anders strategy for doing the cloth first then the tape is a perfect example of gaining insight from other peoples experiences.

      I originally went to box store for Ultraply but when I got there they had switched to carrying Sureply. Another example of why you need to follow your own internal compass and not be taken off course by someone else's agenda

      I appreciate all the feedback and hope I can contribute to others questions as we go along.
      Thanks again to everyone.

      Regards,
      Mike
      --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Great to hear the feedback on this discussion. I think it will all be
      > very useful for perspective builders.
      >
      > Some added thoughts and observations;
      >
      > 1. I think in a multichine hull like the piccup pram I like what Anders
      > wrote.
      >
      > 2. In a bigger hull like the Light Schooner I would go with thicker
      > plywood. 3/8" MDO would be my choice.
      >
      > 3. It would be easier to go with heavier glass on the bottom than adding
      > another layer of plywood. Say 10 oz instead of 6?
      >
      > 4. Glassing the interior would add strength but a lot of extra work.
      > Thicker plywood also adds flotation but glass adds extra weight.
      >
      > 5. On a single chine boat you already have abrasion resistance if the
      > chine logs are on the outside which Jim Michalak seems to suggest works
      > better than interior chine logs. But even then he suggests some tape
      > over the chine logs.
      >
      > 6. Mike Monies has chosen to no longer use Sureply but only Occume. But
      > he builds boats for others on consignement from what I understand. I
      > agree that is the better choice if one can afford it.
      >
      > Nels
      >
      >
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      >
      > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Martin Houston <mtnridr13@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Glass surly does add weight, but it also adds streangth. I tend to be
      > hard on equipment, if it is weak I will break it. I plan to glass my AF3
      > inside & out. I believe It will be strong & watertight. It is big enough
      > to handle the extra weight, it won't be that much. Extra thickness in
      > ply would add streangth without needing extra glass & is probably the
      > way to go. My boats tend to be heavy & strong but I don't car top them.
      > So far none has broke.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: Mike rudder59@
      > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 7:17 PM
      > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Advice on bottom thickness of piccup pram
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Â
      > >
      > > I checked the patriot web site -maker of the Sureply - and the Sureply
      > underlayment thickness is 5.2 -5.5 mm. I chose it because it is
      > guaranteed not to have any voids in it, has good glue qualities etc.
      > > I plan on fiberglassing the bottom up to about six inches up the side
      > panels. May think about taking it all the way up the sides based on
      > concerns that everyone has expressed.
      > >
      > > Plan on fiberglassing inside portion between bulkheads A&C where you
      > sit and most wear and tear will occur. Wondering if I should also glass
      > the inside portion of the bottom in the front and rear compartments for
      > strength or if I only need to be concerned about the open area.
      > >
      > > Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions.
      > >
      > > Mike
      > >
      > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, David Calloway david@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > An inch is 25.4 mm, making 6mm ply a 1/4 inch. I'd feel safe with
      > 5mm
      > > > glassed both sides, just my 2 cents,
      > > >
      > > > dave
      > > >
      > > > On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Martin Houston mtnridr13@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > **
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Or glass the heck out of it, both sides.
      > > > >
      > > > > ________________________________
      > > > > From: Scot McPherson scot.mcpherson@
      > > > > To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 5:48 PM
      > > > > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Advice on bottom thickness of piccup
      > pram
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Dude, that's not slightly thinner...that's a ALOT thinner. 4mm is
      > just a
      > > > > touch over 1/8th inch. I inch is approximately 30mm. 30 / 4 = 7.5,
      > > > > therefore 7.5 mm = approximate 1/4 inch. 4mm is just over half
      > that. I
      > > > > would either scratch using that, or double up on every panel. That
      > boat may
      > > > > crumple under load.
      > > > >
      > > > > Scot McPherson, PMP CISSP MCSA
      > > > > Old Lyme, CT
      > > > > Le Claire, IA
      > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/scotmcpherson
      > > > > Sent from my iPhone
      > > > >
      > > > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 12:03 PM, "Mike" rudder59@ wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > David,
      > > > > > Thank you. JM 's plans call for 1/4 " plywood . Sureply is
      > slightly
      > > > > thinner then that (4mm) so wanted to be sure I wasn't creating a
      > problem
      > > > > with it.
      > > > > > Mike
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "D.G. Cassidy" <d.cassidy@>
      > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > What does JM call for in the plans?
      > > > > > > I would suggest doing whatever the plans specify.
      > > > > > > This is one of JM's most popular designs; if the was a problem
      > with
      > > > > bottom thickness, he would have corrected the plans long ago.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Adding extra weight will not necessarily make the boat any
      > safer
      > > > > (though it will make it harder to get on the roof of a car). That
      > being
      > > > > said, a protective layer of fiberglas on the bottom is a good idea
      > of you
      > > > > are going to be doing a lot of beaching, using concrete ramps,
      > etc. (6 oz.
      > > > > cloth is sufficient for this purpose).
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Holding weight is usually not the problem with thin bottoms.
      > It is
      > > > > puncture resistance. If it is something that keeps you awake at
      > nights,
      > > > > simply do not walk around in the boat when it is out of water and
      > you
      > > > > should never see a problem (a good idea with any plywood boat).
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > David C
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Mike wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Got sidetracked on my build of piccup pram by some health
      > issues but
      > > > > getting back on track now and should finish tie wraps of panels so
      > I can do
      > > > > the fillets on inside seams by next week. I've used Sureply
      > plywood
      > > > > underlayment (4 pr 5 mm thickness).
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I would appreciate any advice regarding the bottom thickness
      > in the
      > > > > area that you sit in. I thought about doubling up the thickness by
      > just
      > > > > putting in another a layer of the sure ply in that area since it
      > will get
      > > > > the most abuse or possibly just putting a layer of fiberglass
      > cloth and
      > > > > resin on that open area.
      > > > > > > >
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