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Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

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  • Jose rodriguez
    close o Fresno Califas. ________________________________ From: Heriberto Escamilla To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 43 , Aug 21, 2013
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      close o Fresno Califas.


      From: Heriberto Escamilla <betoescamilla@...>
      To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

       
      Where is Sanger, CA?

      Beto


      From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
      To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:28 AM
      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

       
      Garza is the most common Mexican surname in Sanger California, population 26,000.  Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Martinez, Garcia  are a distant second. The vast majority of the Mejicano inhabitants of Sanger are originally from the Valle De Tejas, circa 1950!!

      Jaime


      -----Original Message-----
      From: mexr1b@... <armandor1b@...>
      To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:21 am
      Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

       
      Garza and de la Garza might not be that common but you can't compare it to the most common such as Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Martinez, Garcia and so on. The same ten most common surnames in Spain are also the same most common Spanish surnames in Latin America and the U.S.

      https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3A%22de%20la%20Garza%22~%20%2Bany_place%3ASpain~%20%2Bany_year%3A1500-1750~

      https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3AGarza~%20%2Bany_place%3ASpain~%20%2Bany_year%3A1500-1750~

      The amount of Indians and mestizos that went back to Spain is minor and it definitely wasn't enough to cause the surnames to multiply in Spain from a surname in Mexico or Latin America. As far as it causing Q Y-DNA haplogroup to show up it definitely is not the cause for it to be found in places such as Germany.

      --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, Heriberto Escamilla <betoescamilla@...> wrote:
      >
      > That's the fun of researching and studying history, all of the possibilities. I had heard or read somewhere that the last name Garza, while common in Mexico is not all that common in Spain, where it originated. I don't know if that is true. While we tend to think of people immigrating from Spain to Mexico, it is also possible and likely that in 500 years, some Mestizos went back home. I wonder how may people born in Spain have indigenous DNA that went the other way?
      >
      > Beto
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Edward Romero <itsmeed20@...>
      > To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 4:30 PM
      > Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      > If you want to comment, that's fine, but De La Cruz and Cruz are not the same surname.
      >
      > From: "mexr1b@..." <armandor1b@...>
      > To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:03 PM
      > Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua
      >
      >  
      > Cruz and de la Cruz are definitely surnames found in Spain. Penelope Cruz is an example.
      >
      > Cruz is even found in Vizcaya. You can search for yourself at http://internet.aheb-beha.org/paginas/indexacion/n_indexacion.php#
      >
      > or at the Familysearch site
      > https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3A%22de%20la%20Cruz%22~%20%2Brecord_country%3ASpain
      >
      > When surnames first appeared in Spain they gave people a surname they felt like giving them. Many times the surname was from the town or region they were from, other times they were religious surnames, other times they were just plants, trees, and so on. Obviously Cruz is a shortened version of de la Cruz and it is a Christian based surname.
      >
      > --- In mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Romero <itsmeed20@> wrote:
      > >
      > > It's correct that the Catholic priest gave Surnames to the American Indians, they also took away their Indian names and replaced them mostly with Maria or Jose. They even made up Surnames such as: De La Cruz, no where in Spain will you locate that Surname.
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: JOEL SR <hrjoel3@>
      > > To: "mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com"; <mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com>;
      > > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:43 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Pisaño from Chihuahua
      > >
      > >
      > > à
      > >
      > > Hola Pisano:
      > > à
      > > Q is Native American. Q andàRàare from the P.à It appears that Spanishàsurnames were given to Mexican Indiansàas done to North NativeàAmericans acquired European names. We call them Christian names.
      > > My tribal name is Tsoquali Gigaà Adawehi.ààà
      > >
      > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
      > >
      > >
      > > >________________________________
      > > >From: osalinas3 <osalinas3@>
      > > >To: mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com
      > > >Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:48 AM
      > > >Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Pisaño from Chihuahua
      > > >
      > > >à
      > > >Excuse me for being a buttinsk but that most Spaniards came without women is a misconception. àMaybe the first Conquistadors àdidn't but many, many Spainards and other Europeans came not only with women but whole families and even servants. If you read the lists of the passengers on ships which arrived to the New World as early as the 1500's you will see for yourself. Also in records of new arrivals requesting land they state so and so who arrived with his wife or his family requests this much land. àI've done years of research and have seen many records especially from the LDS church.à
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Expressââ¢, an AT&T LTE smartphone
      > > -------- Original message -------- From: Edmund Fimbres <slimered@> Date: 08/18/2013 12:32 AM (GMT-06:00) To: mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Pisaño from Chihuahua à
      > > >Since the Spanish did not for the most part bring women with them, they interbred with the native americans which has resulted in predominantly European Y haplogroups among the mestizos such as R. However your Q-M242 is pretty clearly native in origin.
      > > >
      > > >On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Gregory Pisano <goyosan1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >>à
      > > >>I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its variant spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua.à The oldest reference is in Rio Florido, near Ciudad Chihuahua, most recently in Ciudad Juarez, before coming into Arizona around 1880.à However, my haplogroup is Q-M242; not an R like most others in this forum. Anyone care to comment on this or perhaps someone has run across this surname in their research?
      > > >>à
      > > >>Gregory Pisaño
      > > >>(805) 748-5502
      > > >>à
      > > >>à
      > > --
      > > >Edmund E. Fimbres Esq. Law Office of Edmund Fimbres 13625 Mar Vista St., No. 7 Whittier, CA 90602-2391Fax: 310-300-1825Notice:à The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and/or work product and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message.
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >





    • Heriberto Escamilla
      Thanks Jaime, I ll drop by next time I drive through Beto ________________________________ From: sangerjaime@aol.com To:
      Message 43 of 43 , Aug 22, 2013
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      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks Jaime, I'll drop by next time I drive through

        Beto


        From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:25 AM
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

         
        13 miles due East of Fresno California, next to the Sierra foothills!!


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Heriberto Escamilla <betoescamilla@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 9:01 pm
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

         
        Where is Sanger, CA?

        Beto


        From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:28 AM
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

         
        Garza is the most common Mexican surname in Sanger California, population 26,000.  Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Martinez, Garcia  are a distant second. The vast majority of the Mejicano inhabitants of Sanger are originally from the Valle De Tejas, circa 1950!!

        Jaime


        -----Original Message-----
        From: mexr1b@... <armandor1b@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:21 am
        Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

         
        Garza and de la Garza might not be that common but you can't compare it to the most common such as Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Martinez, Garcia and so on. The same ten most common surnames in Spain are also the same most common Spanish surnames in Latin America and the U.S.

        https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3A%22de%20la%20Garza%22~%20%2Bany_place%3ASpain~%20%2Bany_year%3A1500-1750~

        https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3AGarza~%20%2Bany_place%3ASpain~%20%2Bany_year%3A1500-1750~

        The amount of Indians and mestizos that went back to Spain is minor and it definitely wasn't enough to cause the surnames to multiply in Spain from a surname in Mexico or Latin America. As far as it causing Q Y-DNA haplogroup to show up it definitely is not the cause for it to be found in places such as Germany.

        --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, Heriberto Escamilla <betoescamilla@...> wrote:
        >
        > That's the fun of researching and studying history, all of the possibilities. I had heard or read somewhere that the last name Garza, while common in Mexico is not all that common in Spain, where it originated. I don't know if that is true. While we tend to think of people immigrating from Spain to Mexico, it is also possible and likely that in 500 years, some Mestizos went back home. I wonder how may people born in Spain have indigenous DNA that went the other way?
        >
        > Beto
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Edward Romero <itsmeed20@...>
        > To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 4:30 PM
        > Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        > If you want to comment, that's fine, but De La Cruz and Cruz are not the same surname.
        >
        > From: "mexr1b@..." <armandor1b@...>
        > To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:03 PM
        > Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua
        >
        >  
        > Cruz and de la Cruz are definitely surnames found in Spain. Penelope Cruz is an example.
        >
        > Cruz is even found in Vizcaya. You can search for yourself at http://internet.aheb-beha.org/paginas/indexacion/n_indexacion.php#
        >
        > or at the Familysearch site
        > https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=75&query=%2Bsurname%3A%22de%20la%20Cruz%22~%20%2Brecord_country%3ASpain
        >
        > When surnames first appeared in Spain they gave people a surname they felt like giving them. Many times the surname was from the town or region they were from, other times they were religious surnames, other times they were just plants, trees, and so on. Obviously Cruz is a shortened version of de la Cruz and it is a Christian based surname.
        >
        > --- In mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Romero <itsmeed20@> wrote:
        > >
        > > It's correct that the Catholic priest gave Surnames to the American Indians, they also took away their Indian names and replaced them mostly with Maria or Jose. They even made up Surnames such as: De La Cruz, no where in Spain will you locate that Surname.
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: JOEL SR <hrjoel3@>
        > > To: "mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com"; <?" target="_blank" href="mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com?"mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com>;
        > > Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:43 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Pisaño from Chihuahua
        > >
        > >
        > > à
        > >
        > > Hola Pisano:
        > > à
        > > Q is Native American. Q andàRàare from the P.à It appears that Spanishàsurnames were given to Mexican Indiansàas done to North NativeàAmericans acquired European names. We call them Christian names.
        > > My tribal name is Tsoquali Gigaà Adawehi.ààà
        > >
        > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
        > >
        > >
        > > >________________________________
        > > >From: osalinas3 <osalinas3@>
        > > >To: mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com
        > > >Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:48 AM
        > > >Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Pisaño from Chihuahua
        > > >
        > > >à
        > > >Excuse me for being a buttinsk but that most Spaniards came without women is a misconception. àMaybe the first Conquistadors àdidn't but many, many Spainards and other Europeans came not only with women but whole families and even servants. If you read the lists of the passengers on ships which arrived to the New World as early as the 1500's you will see for yourself. Also in records of new arrivals requesting land they state so and so who arrived with his wife or his family requests this much land. àI've done years of research and have seen many records especially from the LDS church.à
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Expressââ¢, an AT&T LTE smartphone
        > > -------- Original message -------- From: Edmund Fimbres <slimered@> Date: 08/18/2013 12:32 AM (GMT-06:00) To: mailto:MexicoDNAProject%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Pisaño from Chihuahua à
        > > >Since the Spanish did not for the most part bring women with them, they interbred with the native americans which has resulted in predominantly European Y haplogroups among the mestizos such as R. However your Q-M242 is pretty clearly native in origin.
        > > >
        > > >On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Gregory Pisano <goyosan1@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >>à
        > > >>I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its variant spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua.à The oldest reference is in Rio Florido, near Ciudad Chihuahua, most recently in Ciudad Juarez, before coming into Arizona around 1880.à However, my haplogroup is Q-M242; not an R like most others in this forum. Anyone care to comment on this or perhaps someone has run across this surname in their research?
        > > >>à
        > > >>Gregory Pisaño
        > > >>(805) 748-5502
        > > >>à
        > > >>à
        > > --
        > > >Edmund E. Fimbres Esq. Law Office of Edmund Fimbres 13625 Mar Vista St., No. 7 Whittier, CA 90602-2391Fax: 310-300-1825Notice:à The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and/or work product and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message.
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >





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