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Pisaño from Chihuahua

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  • Gregory Pisano
    I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its variant spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua. The oldest
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 17, 2013
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      I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its variant spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua.  The oldest reference is in Rio Florido, near Ciudad Chihuahua, most recently in Ciudad Juarez, before coming into Arizona around 1880.  However, my haplogroup is Q-M242; not an R like most others in this forum. Anyone care to comment on this or perhaps someone has run across this surname in their research?

       

      Gregory Pisaño

      (805) 748-5502

       

       

    • Edmund Fimbres
      Since the Spanish did not for the most part bring women with them, they interbred with the native americans which has resulted in predominantly European Y
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 17, 2013
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        Since the Spanish did not for the most part bring women with them, they interbred with the native americans which has resulted in predominantly European Y haplogroups among the mestizos such as R. However your Q-M242 is pretty clearly native in origin.


        On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Gregory Pisano <goyosan1@...> wrote:
         

        I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its variant spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua.  The oldest reference is in Rio Florido, near Ciudad Chihuahua, most recently in Ciudad Juarez, before coming into Arizona around 1880.  However, my haplogroup is Q-M242; not an R like most others in this forum. Anyone care to comment on this or perhaps someone has run across this surname in their research?

         

        Gregory Pisaño

        (805) 748-5502

         

         




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      • garyf@pacbell.net
        Hi Gregory,you probably have seen this link but for those who are researching Chihuahua here is the latter day saints link to this
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 19, 2013
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          Hi Gregory,
          you probably have seen this link but for those who are researching Chihuahua here is the latter day saints link to this state:

          Saludos,
          Gary


          --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Pisano" wrote:
          >
          > I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its variant
          > spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua. The
          > oldest reference is in Rio Florido, near Ciudad Chihuahua, most recently in
          > Ciudad Juarez, before coming into Arizona around 1880. However, my
          > haplogroup is Q-M242; not an R like most others in this forum. Anyone care
          > to comment on this or perhaps someone has run across this surname in their
          > research?
          >
          >
          >
          > Gregory Pisaño
          >
          > (805) 748-5502
          >
        • Gregory Pisano
          Gary, Thank you. I used this quite a bit when I was in SLC last fall but it is a good reminder to go back and review it again. I have been making some
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 19, 2013
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            Gary, Thank you.  I used this quite a bit when I was in SLC last fall but it is a good reminder to go back and review it again.  I have been making some progress understanding my Q haplogroup.  I found a link on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas) that can be sorted.  Based on my Q-M242 haplotype and my genealogical paper trail, I reckon that I might be one of the Uto-Aztecan language groups.

             

            Gregory Pisaño

            (805) 748-5502

             

             

            From: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of garyf@...
            Sent: August 19, 2013 9:06 PM
            To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

             

             

            Hi Gregory,

            you probably have seen this link but for those who are researching Chihuahua here is the latter day saints link to this state:

             

            Saludos,

            Gary

             

             

            --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Pisano" wrote:

            >
            > I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its variant
            > spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua. The
            > oldest reference is in Rio Florido, near Ciudad Chihuahua, most recently in
            > Ciudad Juarez, before coming into Arizona around 1880. However, my
            > haplogroup is Q-M242; not an R like most others in this forum. Anyone care
            > to comment on this or perhaps someone has run across this surname in their
            > research?
            >
            >
            >
            > Gregory Pisaño
            >
            > (805) 748-5502
            >

          • garyf@pacbell.net
            Your welcome Gregory,your family finder results indicate Maya and Pima just like mine does. There were 3 migrations from Siberia. The first was the
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 19, 2013
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              Your welcome Gregory,
              your family finder results indicate Maya and Pima just like mine does.  There were 3 migrations from Siberia.  The first was the paleolithic Amerind and the next was the Na Dene speakers and the most recent was the Eskimo. 

              Perhaps other members can support or not what I am about to type but it looks like those of us near the Na Dene speakers are picking up Pima rather than the Maya which would be Amerind and the vast majority of Native American ancestry. 
              Here is a map of the Na Dene speakers:

              I am showing Maya from my Mother's Native American ancestry and I must get the Pima from my Father's DNA (he was not tested). His ancestry is from Sonora and could be a reflection of some Na Dene migration into Sonora.

               There are a few in the project who are showing a small percentage of Yakut which is Siberian and really shouldn't be showing up as part of our recent ancestry on Family Finder.

              Saludos,
              Gary
               


              --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Pisano" wrote:
              >
              > Gary, Thank you. I used this quite a bit when I was in SLC last fall but it
              > is a good reminder to go back and review it again. I have been making some
              > progress understanding my Q haplogroup. I found a link on Wikipedia
              > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_indigenous_peoples_of_the
              > _Americas) that can be sorted. Based on my Q-M242 haplotype and my
              > genealogical paper trail, I reckon that I might be one of the Uto-Aztecan
              > language groups.
              >
              >
              >
              > Gregory Pisaño
              >
              > (805) 748-5502
              >
              >
              >

            • mexr1b@att.net
              You might also enjoy reading the following - May 14, 2012 Y chromosome diversity in Native Mexicans (Sandoval et al. 2012) From the paper: The first dimension
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 21, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                You might also enjoy reading the following -

                May 14, 2012
                Y chromosome diversity in Native Mexicans (Sandoval et al. 2012)
                From the paper:

                The first dimension of the CoA (60.53%) separates Q-M3 from the rest, and the second dimension (39.47%) C-M130 from the rest. In agreement ith the known distribution of haplogroup C, we observed that the two northernmost populations of this panel (Chippewa and Sioux) cluster next to C-M130 and the rest of populations show varying proportions of Q-M242 and Q-M3. It is noteworthy that Native Mexicans are the only regional group with populations represented next to both the Q-M242 cluster and the Q-M3 cluster. In contrast, all Central and South American samples were grouped significantly closer to the Q-M3 haplogroup (Fig. 3).

                Am J Phys Anthropol DOI: 10.1002/ajpa.22062

                Y-chromosome diversity in Native Mexicans reveals continental transition of genetic structure in the Americas

                Karla Sandoval et al.

                The genetic characterization of Native Mexicans is important to understand multiethnic based features influencing the medical genetics of present Mexican populations, as well as to the reconstruct the peopling of the Americas. We describe the Y-chromosome genetic diversity of 197 Native Mexicans from 11 populations and 1,044 individuals from 44 Native American populations after combining with publicly available data. We found extensive heterogeneity among Native Mexican populations and ample segregation of Q-M242* (46%) and Q-M3 (54%) haplogroups within Mexico. The northernmost sampled populations falling outside Mesoamerica (Pima and Tarahumara) showed a clear differentiation with respect to the other populations, which is in agreement with previous results from mtDNA lineages. However, our results point toward a complex genetic makeup of Native Mexicans whose maternal and paternal lineages reveal different narratives of their population history, with sex-biased continental contributions and different admixture proportions. At a continental scale, we found that Arctic populations and the northernmost groups from North America cluster together, but we did not find a clear differentiation within Mesoamerica and the rest of the continent, which coupled with the fact that the majority of individuals from Central and South American samples are restricted to the Q-M3 branch, supports the notion that most Native Americans from Mesoamerica southwards are descendants from a single wave of migration. This observation is compatible with the idea that present day Mexico might have constituted an area of transition in the diversification of paternal lineages during the colonization of the Americas.

                http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/05/y-chromosome-diversity-in-native.html

                --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Pisano" <goyosan1@...> wrote:
                >
                > Gary, Thank you. I used this quite a bit when I was in SLC last fall but it
                > is a good reminder to go back and review it again. I have been making some
                > progress understanding my Q haplogroup. I found a link on Wikipedia
                > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_indigenous_peoples_of_the
                > _Americas) that can be sorted. Based on my Q-M242 haplotype and my
                > genealogical paper trail, I reckon that I might be one of the Uto-Aztecan
                > language groups.
                >
                >
                >
                > Gregory Pisaño
                >
                > (805) 748-5502
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > From: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of garyf@...
                > Sent: August 19, 2013 9:06 PM
                > To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi Gregory,
                >
                > you probably have seen this link but for those who are researching Chihuahua
                > here is the latter day saints link to this state:
                >
                > https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.o
                > rg%2Frecords%2Fcollection%2F1922462%2Fwaypoints
                >
                >
                >
                > Saludos,
                >
                > Gary
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Pisano" wrote:
                > >
                > > I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its
                > variant
                > > spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua.
                > The
                > > oldest reference is in Rio Florido, near Ciudad Chihuahua, most recently
                > in
                > > Ciudad Juarez, before coming into Arizona around 1880. However, my
                > > haplogroup is Q-M242; not an R like most others in this forum. Anyone care
                > > to comment on this or perhaps someone has run across this surname in their
                > > research?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Gregory Pisaño
                > >
                > > (805) 748-5502
                > >
                >
              • Heriberto Escamilla
                Thanks mex1b; this is very interesting. I have often wondered about the contact between the meso-american peoples and the Que chua or Incas of the Andes. We
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 22, 2013
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                  Thanks mex1b; this is very interesting.

                  I have often wondered about the contact between the meso-american peoples and the Que'chua or Incas of the Andes. We pretty much accept that the Toltecas of the 1st century interchanged with the people of Guatemala and the general area. We also pretty much accept that they also traded with the people of the American southwest,  in Arizona and New Mexico for example. But, I have not read much about the connection farther south. We know that corn was born in Mexico and somehow made it's away across the Americas and that was pretty early. That could have happened a number of ways.

                  I think I mentioned before and I am sure many know that the Huicholes of the Sierra Madre each year make a pilgrimage to a place they call Wirikuta, in the state of San Luis Potosi. They say this is where their sun was born. They say they are originally from that area so they go back every year in remembrance. It is a holy place to them. In their journey, the rope (mecatle, mecate) is very important. Mecatl is a Nahuatl word used to represent "lineage"; chichi-mecatl, Toltecatl, etc. The Huicholes also use a rope in their confession ceremony, binding a knot for each regret (sin) they have committed along the way and then throwing it into a ceremonial fire. It is a way of limpiando, cleaning away sins. They do this in a public confession, with all of the pilgrims present. Anyway, they also use a rope to "document" their journey. They tie a knot to capture significant events along the pilgrimage. When they return to the community, they use the knot to recount their pilgrimage to those that stayed home.

                  The Que'chua also had a holy place and they called it Viracocha. it is an actual physical place and place of refuge that evidently was never discovered by the early colonizers. Like the Huichol, or Wixarika and most indigenous groups, they were illiterate. But they did have a system of communication.I understand that they communicated across long distances through a system of knots tied on ropes. The color, size, location of the knots was a kind of code. The ropes were delivered by runners from one community to another.  The name of the place (wiricuta, viracocha) sound very similar and the use of the rope for communication also sounds intriguingly similar and suggestive of interchange.

                  Now, I hope you grant me some poetic licence here. The strands of DNA are like ropes. Along the length of rope, there are knots (genetic markers) that capture and document the significant events on our journey. We carry inside of us a sacred rope of sorts that documents our journey and where we stopped, who we met and what we did along the way. 

                  Beto


                  From: "mexr1b@..." <armandor1b@...>
                  To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:53 AM
                  Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua

                   
                  You might also enjoy reading the following -

                  May 14, 2012
                  Y chromosome diversity in Native Mexicans (Sandoval et al. 2012)
                  From the paper:

                  The first dimension of the CoA (60.53%) separates Q-M3 from the rest, and the second dimension (39.47%) C-M130 from the rest. In agreement ith the known distribution of haplogroup C, we observed that the two northernmost populations of this panel (Chippewa and Sioux) cluster next to C-M130 and the rest of populations show varying proportions of Q-M242 and Q-M3. It is noteworthy that Native Mexicans are the only regional group with populations represented next to both the Q-M242 cluster and the Q-M3 cluster. In contrast, all Central and South American samples were grouped significantly closer to the Q-M3 haplogroup (Fig. 3).

                  Am J Phys Anthropol DOI: 10.1002/ajpa.22062

                  Y-chromosome diversity in Native Mexicans reveals continental transition of genetic structure in the Americas

                  Karla Sandoval et al.

                  The genetic characterization of Native Mexicans is important to understand multiethnic based features influencing the medical genetics of present Mexican populations, as well as to the reconstruct the peopling of the Americas. We describe the Y-chromosome genetic diversity of 197 Native Mexicans from 11 populations and 1,044 individuals from 44 Native American populations after combining with publicly available data. We found extensive heterogeneity among Native Mexican populations and ample segregation of Q-M242* (46%) and Q-M3 (54%) haplogroups within Mexico. The northernmost sampled populations falling outside Mesoamerica (Pima and Tarahumara) showed a clear differentiation with respect to the other populations, which is in agreement with previous results from mtDNA lineages. However, our results point toward a complex genetic makeup of Native Mexicans whose maternal and paternal lineages reveal different narratives of their population history, with sex-biased continental contributions and different admixture proportions. At a continental scale, we found that Arctic populations and the northernmost groups from North America cluster together, but we did not find a clear differentiation within Mesoamerica and the rest of the continent, which coupled with the fact that the majority of individuals from Central and South American samples are restricted to the Q-M3 branch, supports the notion that most Native Americans from Mesoamerica southwards are descendants from a single wave of migration. This observation is compatible with the idea that present day Mexico might have constituted an area of transition in the diversification of paternal lineages during the colonization of the Americas.

                  http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/05/y-chromosome-diversity-in-native.html

                  --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Pisano" <goyosan1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Gary, Thank you. I used this quite a bit when I was in SLC last fall but it
                  > is a good reminder to go back and review it again. I have been making some
                  > progress understanding my Q haplogroup. I found a link on Wikipedia
                  > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_indigenous_peoples_of_the
                  > _Americas) that can be sorted. Based on my Q-M242 haplotype and my
                  > genealogical paper trail, I reckon that I might be one of the Uto-Aztecan
                  > language groups.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Gregory Pisaño
                  >
                  > (805) 748-5502
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of garyf@...
                  > Sent: August 19, 2013 9:06 PM
                  > To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Pisaño from Chihuahua
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Gregory,
                  >
                  > you probably have seen this link but for those who are researching Chihuahua
                  > here is the latter day saints link to this state:
                  >
                  > https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.o
                  > rg%2Frecords%2Fcollection%2F1922462%2Fwaypoints
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Saludos,
                  >
                  > Gary
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Pisano" wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I have a paper trail back to the early 1800s for my surname and its
                  > variant
                  > > spellings (Pisana, Pizano, Pizana, with or without tilde) in Chihuahua.
                  > The
                  > > oldest reference is in Rio Florido, near Ciudad Chihuahua, most recently
                  > in
                  > > Ciudad Juarez, before coming into Arizona around 1880. However, my
                  > > haplogroup is Q-M242; not an R like most others in this forum. Anyone care
                  > > to comment on this or perhaps someone has run across this surname in their
                  > > research?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Gregory Pisaño
                  > >
                  > > (805) 748-5502
                  > >
                  >



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