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Re: [MexicoDNAProject] Family Finder results

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  • Edward Romero
    Hi, Gilbert, sorry but I m not that informed about DNA Matches, I wish I could help. Good Luck in your search, do not give up, I ve been searching before the
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 17, 2013
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      Hi, Gilbert, sorry but I'm not that informed about DNA Matches, I wish I could help. Good Luck in your search, do not give up, I've been searching before the Internet, DNA, all I had was the US Mail and Telephone, I still have not found my Mother's family tree but hope to someday. Ed

      From: Gilbert villerreal <gvillerreal63@...>
      To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 6:08 PM
      Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Family Finder results
       
      Hi,
      My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.

    • earthchild_marie
      They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 18, 2013
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        They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
        You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.


        --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
        >
      • sangerjaime@...
        I think Maya is a catch all definition. I do not think that FTDNA has broken down the NA DNA to specific tribes yet. As for Mozabites, Although African,
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 18, 2013
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          I think Maya is a catch all definition.  I do not think that FTDNA has broken down the NA DNA to specific tribes yet.  As for Mozabites, Although African, their appearance was/is very Mediterranean.......


          -----Original Message-----
          From: earthchild_marie <earthchild_marie@...>
          To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 8:13 am
          Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Family Finder results

           
          They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
          You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.

          --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
          >

        • mexr1b@att.net
          The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 19, 2013
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            The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms.

            The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.

            --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
            >
            > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
            > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
            >
            >
            > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
            > >
            >
          • gilbertvillerreal
            Hi, I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record. ... The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 24, 2013
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              Hi,

              I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  



              ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:

              The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms.

              The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.

              --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
              >
              > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
              > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
              >
              >
              > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
              > >
              >
            • Joel Peres
              Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 25, 2013
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                Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?


                On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                 

                Hi,

                I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  



                ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:

                The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms.

                The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.

                --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                >
                > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                >
                >
                > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi,
                > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                > >
                >


              • GILBERT VILLERREAL
                The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar. 5th Great grand Mother Margarita Menchaca. I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca,
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 25, 2013
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                  The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar.
                  5th Great grand Mother  Margarita Menchaca.
                  I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca, the daughter of Margarita is Don Luis Menchaca, the master of Margarita no proof or documentation. I am looking for the will of Don Luis Menchaca. 

                  San Fernando Church Baptisms 1731-1775

                  entry 325 p20

                  John Ogden Leal

                  San Antonio Public Library

                   1754.

                  Antonia Serafina Menchaca was baptised when she was 8 days old. She was bastised at San Fernando, in Villa Bejar. The record states that she is a Mestiza, child of Margarita Menchaca, Apache Indian, servant of Don Luis Menchaca, who raised her, " y es publica " Godmother Maria de Anpuco.



                  On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                   

                  Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?


                  On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hi,

                  I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  



                  ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:

                  The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms.

                  The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.

                  --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                  > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi,
                  > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                  > >
                  >



                • sangerjaime@...
                  Gilbert, Google---- Hernandez, Andres-Texas State Historical Association. In this disputed land grant in San Antonio Texas is mentioned a Luis Antonio
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 25, 2013
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                    Gilbert,

                    Google---- Hernandez, Andres-Texas State Historical Association.  In this disputed land grant in San Antonio Texas is mentioned a Luis Antonio Menchaca who also claimed ownership to the grant.  This may be a lead.  Andres Hernandez's wife, Maria Hoyos is my Tia 5th generations approximately!!

                    Jaime Rendon Hernandez



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...>
                    To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Fri, Oct 25, 2013 5:18 pm
                    Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results

                     
                    The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar.
                    5th Great grand Mother  Margarita Menchaca.
                    I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca, the daughter of Margarita is Don Luis Menchaca, the master of Margarita no proof or documentation. I am looking for the will of Don Luis Menchaca. 
                    San Fernando Church Baptisms 1731-1775
                    entry 325 p20
                    John Ogden Leal
                    San Antonio Public Library
                     1754.
                    Antonia Serafina Menchaca was baptised when she was 8 days old. She was bastised at San Fernando, in Villa Bejar. The record states that she is a Mestiza, child of Margarita Menchaca, Apache Indian, servant of Don Luis Menchaca, who raised her, " y es publica " Godmother Maria de Anpuco.


                    On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                     
                    Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?


                    On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                     
                    Hi,
                    I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  


                    ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:

                    The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms.

                    The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.

                    --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                    > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi,
                    > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                    > >
                    >


                  • earthchild_marie
                    Even more important, what Year is the Apache record from? ... Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from? On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM,
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 26, 2013
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                      Even more important, what Year is the Apache record from?
                      ---In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, <mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?


                      On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                       

                      Hi,

                      I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  



                      ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:

                      The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms.

                      The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.

                      --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                      > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi,
                      > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                      > >
                      >

                    • GILBERT VILLERREAL
                      Thank you, that is the same Menchaca. Like I said I cannot document that he is the father. Will keep searching for more evidence.
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 26, 2013
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                        Thank you, that is the same Menchaca. Like I said I cannot document that he is the father. Will keep searching for more evidence. 


                        On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
                         

                        Gilbert,

                        Google---- Hernandez, Andres-Texas State Historical Association.  In this disputed land grant in San Antonio Texas is mentioned a Luis Antonio Menchaca who also claimed ownership to the grant.  This may be a lead.  Andres Hernandez's wife, Maria Hoyos is my Tia 5th generations approximately!!

                        Jaime Rendon Hernandez




                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...>
                        To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Fri, Oct 25, 2013 5:18 pm
                        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results

                         
                        The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar.
                        5th Great grand Mother  Margarita Menchaca.
                        I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca, the daughter of Margarita is Don Luis Menchaca, the master of Margarita no proof or documentation. I am looking for the will of Don Luis Menchaca. 
                        San Fernando Church Baptisms 1731-1775
                        entry 325 p20
                        John Ogden Leal
                        San Antonio Public Library
                         1754.
                        Antonia Serafina Menchaca was baptised when she was 8 days old. She was bastised at San Fernando, in Villa Bejar. The record states that she is a Mestiza, child of Margarita Menchaca, Apache Indian, servant of Don Luis Menchaca, who raised her, " y es publica " Godmother Maria de Anpuco.


                        On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                         
                        Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?


                        On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                         
                        Hi,
                        I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  


                        ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:

                        The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms.

                        The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.

                        --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                        > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi,
                        > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                        > >
                        >



                      • sangerjaime@...
                        I would think that Don Luis s will would be recorded in the death records of San Fernando Cathedral? ... From: GILBERT VILLERREAL To:
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 26, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I would think that Don Luis's will would be recorded in the death records of San Fernando Cathedral?  



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...>
                          To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 6:59 am
                          Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results

                           
                          Thank you, that is the same Menchaca. Like I said I cannot document that he is the father. Will keep searching for more evidence. 


                          On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
                           
                          Gilbert,

                          Google---- Hernandez, Andres-Texas State Historical Association.  In this disputed land grant in San Antonio Texas is mentioned a Luis Antonio Menchaca who also claimed ownership to the grant.  This may be a lead.  Andres Hernandez's wife, Maria Hoyos is my Tia 5th generations approximately!!

                          Jaime Rendon Hernandez



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...>
                          To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Fri, Oct 25, 2013 5:18 pm
                          Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results

                           
                          The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar.
                          5th Great grand Mother  Margarita Menchaca.
                          I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca, the daughter of Margarita is Don Luis Menchaca, the master of Margarita no proof or documentation. I am looking for the will of Don Luis Menchaca. 
                          San Fernando Church Baptisms 1731-1775
                          entry 325 p20
                          John Ogden Leal
                          San Antonio Public Library
                           1754.
                          Antonia Serafina Menchaca was baptised when she was 8 days old. She was bastised at San Fernando, in Villa Bejar. The record states that she is a Mestiza, child of Margarita Menchaca, Apache Indian, servant of Don Luis Menchaca, who raised her, " y es publica " Godmother Maria de Anpuco.


                          On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                           
                          Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?


                          On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                           
                          Hi,
                          I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  


                          ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:

                          The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms.

                          The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.

                          --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                          > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hi,
                          > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                          > >
                          >



                        • JOEL SR
                          Hi Joel Can you post this to our yahoo group? Gary Sent from my iPhone On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR wrote: ... ); Joel K.
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 27, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Joel
                            Can you post this to our yahoo group?

                            Gary

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:

                            Gary:
                             
                            On the Haplotree SNP
                             
                            How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these
                            1. L23 !
                              1. L150 !
                                1. L51 !
                                  1. L52L11P311P310 !L151
                                    1. U106 !
                                      1. U198 !
                                      2. P107 !
                                      3. L1 !
                                      4. L48 !
                                        1. L47 !
                                          1. L44 !L163
                                            1. L46 !
                                              1. L45L164 !L237
                                        2. L148 !
                                        3. L188 !
                                      5. L6 !
                                      6. P89.2 !
                                      7. L217 !
                                      8. L257 !
                                      9. L325 !
                                    2. P312 !
                                      1. M65 !
                                      2. M153 !
                                      3. U152 !
                                        1. M126 !
                                        2. M160 !
                                        3. L2 !
                                          1. L20 !
                                            1. M228.2 !
                                          2. L196 !
                                        4. L4 !
                                      4. L21 !
                                        1. M37 !
                                        2. M222 !
                                        3. P66 !
                                        4. L96 !
                                        5. L144 !L195
                                        6. L159.2 !
                                        7. L193 !
                                        8. L226 !
                                        9. P314.2 !
                                      5. L176.2 !
                                        1. SRY2627 !
                                        2. L165 !
                            2. M335
                            1. V88
                              1. M18
                            2. P267P249M124L266
                              1. L294
                            Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress
                             
                            P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?
                             
                            Joel
                             
                            Gary:
                             
                            How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?
                             
                            See copied.
                             
                            In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                          • Danny Borquez
                            Hi Gary,   I was checking FTDNA  for Haplotree & SNP s and I saw all the SNP s they showed I could test for , when I compared those to my Geno 2 results  I
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 28, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Gary, 

                               I was checking FTDNA  for Haplotree & SNP's and I saw all the SNP's they showed I could test for , when I compared those to my Geno 2 results  I had tested positive for the majority of them . I called Family Tree and asked them why my results haven't been merged ( It's been close to 8 months) and they told me they are having tech problems with this procedure. This issue has been brought up by a lot of other people and they don't know when it will be fixed but they are working on it. When Joel mentioned M207 I saw I was positive for it on my Geno 2 results so that's when I started comparing FTDNA with my Geno 2 results.
                              I just thought I'd bring it up in case anyone else has noticed that problem.
                              Danny


                              On Sunday, October 27, 2013 1:44 PM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:
                               
                              Hi Joel
                              Can you post this to our yahoo group?

                              Gary

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:

                              Gary:
                               
                              On the Haplotree SNP
                               
                              How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these
                              1. L23 !
                                1. L150 !
                                  1. L51 !
                                    1. L52L11P311P310 !L151
                                      1. U106 !
                                        1. U198 !
                                        2. P107 !
                                        3. L1 !
                                        4. L48 !
                                          1. L47 !
                                            1. L44 !L163
                                              1. L46 !
                                                1. L45L164 !L237
                                          2. L148 !
                                          3. L188 !
                                        5. L6 !
                                        6. P89.2 !
                                        7. L217 !
                                        8. L257 !
                                        9. L325 !
                                      2. P312 !
                                        1. M65 !
                                        2. M153 !
                                        3. U152 !
                                          1. M126 !
                                          2. M160 !
                                          3. L2 !
                                            1. L20 !
                                              1. M228.2 !
                                            2. L196 !
                                          4. L4 !
                                        4. L21 !
                                          1. M37 !
                                          2. M222 !
                                          3. P66 !
                                          4. L96 !
                                          5. L144 !L195
                                          6. L159.2 !
                                          7. L193 !
                                          8. L226 !
                                          9. P314.2 !
                                        5. L176.2 !
                                          1. SRY2627 !
                                          2. L165 !
                              2. M335
                              1. V88
                                1. M18
                              2. P267P249M124L266
                                1. L294
                              Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress
                               
                              P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?
                               
                              Joel
                               
                              Gary:
                               
                              How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?
                               
                              See copied.
                               
                              In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                              ");

                               
                              Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                              From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                              To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
                              Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                               
                              I would think that Don Luis's will would be recorded in the death records of San Fernando Cathedral?  



                              -----Original Message----- From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...> To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 6:59 am Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                               
                              Thank you, that is the same Menchaca. Like I said I cannot document that he is the father. Will keep searching for more evidence. 
                              On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
                               
                              Gilbert,

                              Google---- Hernandez, Andres-Texas State Historical Association.  In this disputed land grant in San Antonio Texas is mentioned a Luis Antonio Menchaca who also claimed ownership to the grant.  This may be a lead.  Andres Hernandez's wife, Maria Hoyos is my Tia 5th generations approximately!!

                              Jaime Rendon Hernandez



                              -----Original Message----- From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...> To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Oct 25, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                               
                              The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar.
                              5th Great grand Mother  Margarita Menchaca.
                              I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca, the daughter of Margarita is Don Luis Menchaca, the master of Margarita no proof or documentation. I am looking for the will of Don Luis Menchaca. 
                              San Fernando Church Baptisms 1731-1775
                              entry 325 p20
                              John Ogden Leal
                              San Antonio Public Library
                               1754.
                              Antonia Serafina Menchaca was baptised when she was 8 days old. She was bastised at San Fernando, in Villa Bejar. The record states that she is a Mestiza, child of Margarita Menchaca, Apache Indian, servant of Don Luis Menchaca, who raised her, " y es publica " Godmother Maria de Anpuco.
                              On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                               
                              Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?
                              On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                               
                              Hi,
                              I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  
                              ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:
                              The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms. The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.
                              --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                              > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi,
                              > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                              > >
                              >


                            • JOEL SR
                              Hola group:   How many are positive for R M207?   Joel   From: Danny Borquez ... pacification of northern Mexico and what is now
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 28, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hola group:
                                 
                                How many are positive for R M207?
                                 
                                Joel
                                 
                                From: Danny Borquez <danny_borquez@...>
                                To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:48 PM
                                Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                 
                                Hi Gary, 

                                 I was checking FTDNA  for Haplotree & SNP's and I saw all the SNP's they showed I could test for , when I compared those to my Geno 2 results  I had tested positive for the majority of them . I called Family Tree and asked them why my results haven't been merged ( It's been close to 8 months) and they told me they are having tech problems with this procedure. This issue has been brought up by a lot of other people and they don't know when it will be fixed but they are working on it. When Joel mentioned M207 I saw I was positive for it on my Geno 2 results so that's when I started comparing FTDNA with my Geno 2 results.
                                I just thought I'd bring it up in case anyone else has noticed that problem.
                                Danny
                                On Sunday, October 27, 2013 1:44 PM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Hi Joel
                                Can you post this to our yahoo group?

                                Gary
                                Sent from my iPhone
                                On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:
                                Gary:
                                 
                                On the Haplotree SNP
                                 
                                How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these
                                1. L23 !
                                  1. L150 !
                                    1. L51 !
                                      1. L52L11P311P310 !L151
                                        1. U106 !
                                          1. U198 !
                                          2. P107 !
                                          3. L1 !
                                          4. L48 !
                                            1. L47 !
                                              1. L44 !L163
                                                1. L46 !
                                                  1. L45L164 !L237
                                            2. L148 !
                                            3. L188 !
                                          5. L6 !
                                          6. P89.2 !
                                          7. L217 !
                                          8. L257 !
                                          9. L325 !
                                        2. P312 !
                                          1. M65 !
                                          2. M153 !
                                          3. U152 !
                                            1. M126 !
                                            2. M160 !
                                            3. L2 !
                                              1. L20 !
                                                1. M228.2 !
                                              2. L196 !
                                            4. L4 !
                                          4. L21 !
                                            1. M37 !
                                            2. M222 !
                                            3. P66 !
                                            4. L96 !
                                            5. L144 !L195
                                            6. L159.2 !
                                            7. L193 !
                                            8. L226 !
                                            9. P314.2 !
                                          5. L176.2 !
                                            1. SRY2627 !
                                            2. L165 !
                                2. M335
                                1. V88
                                  1. M18
                                2. P267P249M124L266
                                  1. L294
                                Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress
                                 
                                P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?
                                 
                                Joel
                                 
                                Gary:
                                 
                                How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?
                                 
                                See copied.
                                 
                                In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                ");

                                 
                                Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                                From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                                To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
                                Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                 
                                I would think that Don Luis's will would be recorded in the death records of San Fernando Cathedral?  



                                -----Original Message----- From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...> To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 6:59 am Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                 
                                Thank you, that is the same Menchaca. Like I said I cannot document that he is the father. Will keep searching for more evidence. 
                                On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Gilbert,

                                Google---- Hernandez, Andres-Texas State Historical Association.  In this disputed land grant in San Antonio Texas is mentioned a Luis Antonio Menchaca who also claimed ownership to the grant.  This may be a lead.  Andres Hernandez's wife, Maria Hoyos is my Tia 5th generations approximately!!

                                Jaime Rendon Hernandez



                                -----Original Message----- From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...> To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Oct 25, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                 
                                The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar.
                                5th Great grand Mother  Margarita Menchaca.
                                I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca, the daughter of Margarita is Don Luis Menchaca, the master of Margarita no proof or documentation. I am looking for the will of Don Luis Menchaca. 
                                San Fernando Church Baptisms 1731-1775
                                entry 325 p20
                                John Ogden Leal
                                San Antonio Public Library
                                 1754.
                                Antonia Serafina Menchaca was baptised when she was 8 days old. She was bastised at San Fernando, in Villa Bejar. The record states that she is a Mestiza, child of Margarita Menchaca, Apache Indian, servant of Don Luis Menchaca, who raised her, " y es publica " Godmother Maria de Anpuco.
                                On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?
                                On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Hi,
                                I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  
                                ---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@...> wrote:
                                The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms. The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.
                                --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                                > You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi,
                                > > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                                > >
                                >
                              • garyf@pacbell.net
                                Just to clarify if you are R-M207 this means this is your terminal SNP and negative for all downstream markers or subclades. We have no one that has R-M207 as
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 28, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Just to clarify if you are R-M207 this means this is your terminal SNP and negative for all downstream markers or subclades. We have no one that has R-M207 as their terminal SNP but about half the project Y results are subclades so they have a positive R-M207 result leading to their own terminal SNP which is downstream of R-M207.

                                  Gary

                                  --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hola group:
                                  >  
                                  > How many are positive for R M207?
                                  >  
                                  > Joel
                                  >  
                                  > From: Danny Borquez <danny_borquez@...>
                                  > >To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > >Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 10:48 PM
                                  > >Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                  > >
                                  > > 
                                  > >Hi Gary, 
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I was checking FTDNA  for Haplotree & SNP's and I saw all the SNP's they showed I could test for , when I compared those to my Geno 2 results  I had tested positive for the majority of them . I called Family Tree and asked them why my results haven't been merged ( It's been close to 8 months) and they told me they are having tech problems with this procedure. This issue has been brought up by a lot of other people and they don't know when it will be fixed but they are working on it. When Joel mentioned M207 I saw I was positive for it on my Geno 2 results so that's when I started comparing FTDNA with my Geno 2 results.
                                  > >I just thought I'd bring it up in case anyone else has noticed that problem.
                                  > >Danny
                                  > >On Sunday, October 27, 2013 1:44 PM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > 
                                  > >Hi Joel
                                  > >Can you post this to our yahoo group?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >Gary
                                  > >Sent from my iPhone
                                  > >On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:
                                  > >Gary:
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>On the Haplotree SNP
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these
                                  > >> 1. L23 !R1b1a2a*
                                  > >> 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1*
                                  > >> 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a*
                                  > >> 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1*
                                  > >> 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a*
                                  > >> 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1
                                  > >> 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2
                                  > >> 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3
                                  > >> 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4*
                                  > >> 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a*
                                  > >> 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1*
                                  > >> 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a*
                                  > >> 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1
                                  > >> 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b
                                  > >> 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c
                                  > >> 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5
                                  > >> 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6
                                  > >> 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7
                                  > >> 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8
                                  > >> 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9
                                  > >> 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b*
                                  > >> 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1
                                  > >> 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2
                                  > >> 3. U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3*
                                  > >> 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a
                                  > >> 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b
                                  > >> 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c*
                                  > >> 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1*
                                  > >> 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a
                                  > >> 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2
                                  > >> 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d
                                  > >> 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4*
                                  > >> 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a
                                  > >> 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b
                                  > >> 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c
                                  > >> 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d
                                  > >> 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e
                                  > >> 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f
                                  > >> 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g
                                  > >> 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h
                                  > >> 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i
                                  > >> 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5*
                                  > >> 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a
                                  > >> 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b
                                  > >> 2. M335R1b1b
                                  > >> 1. V88
                                  > >> 2. R1b1c*
                                  > >> 3. 1. M18R1b1c1
                                  > >> 4. P267P249M124L266
                                  > >> 5. R2*
                                  > >> 6. 1. L294R2a
                                  > >>Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress
                                  > >>
                                  > >>P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>Joel
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>Gary:
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>See copied.
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and
                                  > >> 
                                  > >> 
                                  > >> 
                                  > >> 
                                  > >> 
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>
                                  > >");
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                                  > >
                                  > >From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                                  > >>To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >>Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
                                  > >>Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                  > >>
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>I would thinkthat Don Luis's will would be recorded in the death records of San Fernando Cathedral?  
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>-----Original Message----- From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...> To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 6:59 am Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>Thank you, that is the same Menchaca. Like I said I cannot document that he is the father. Will keep searching for more evidence. 
                                  > >>On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
                                  > >> 
                                  > >>>Gilbert,
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>Google---- Hernandez, Andres-Texas State Historical Association.  In this disputed land grant in San Antonio Texas is mentioned a Luis Antonio Menchaca who also claimed ownership to the grant.  This may be a lead.  Andres Hernandez's wife, Maria Hoyos is my Tia 5th generations approximately!!
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>Jaime Rendon Hernandez
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>-----Original Message----- From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...> To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Oct 25, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                  > >>> 
                                  > >>>The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar.
                                  > >>>5th Great grand Mother  Margarita Menchaca.
                                  > >>>I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca, the daughter of Margarita is Don Luis Menchaca, the master of Margarita no proof or documentation. I am looking for the will of Don Luis Menchaca. 
                                  > >>>San Fernando Church Baptisms 1731-1775
                                  > >>>entry 325 p20
                                  > >>>John Ogden Leal
                                  > >>>San Antonio Public Library
                                  > >>> 1754.
                                  > >>>Antonia Serafina Menchaca was baptised when she was 8 days old. She was bastised at San Fernando, in Villa Bejar. The record states that she is a Mestiza, child of Margarita Menchaca, Apache Indian, servant of Don Luis Menchaca, who raised her, " y es publica " Godmother Maria de Anpuco.
                                  > >>>On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                                  > >>> 
                                  > >>>>Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?
                                  > >>>>On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                                  > >>>> 
                                  > >>>>>Hi,
                                  > >>>>>I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  
                                  > >>>>>---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@> wrote:
                                  > >>>>>The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms. The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the
                                  > pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.
                                  > >>>>>--- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@> wrote:
                                  > >>>>>>>
                                  > >>>>>>> They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                                  > >>>>>>> You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                                  > >>>>>>>
                                  > >>>>>>>
                                  > >>>>>>> --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                                  > >>>>>>> >
                                  > >>>>>>> > Hi,
                                  > >>>>>>> > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                                  > >>>>>>> >
                                  > >>>>>>>
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • garyf@pacbell.net
                                  Hi Danny, you would need to consult the haplotree to determine your terminal SNP keeping in mind that a new discovery of a downstream SNP leaves this as a
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 28, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Danny,
                                    you would need to consult the haplotree to determine your terminal SNP keeping in mind that a new discovery of a downstream SNP leaves this as a possiblity of a new terminal SNP.

                                    Gary

                                    --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, Danny Borquez <danny_borquez@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi Gary, 
                                    >
                                    >  I was checking FTDNA  for Haplotree & SNP's and I saw all the SNP's they showed I could test for , when I compared those to my Geno 2 results  I had tested positive for the majority of them . I called Family Tree and asked them why my results haven't been merged ( It's been close to 8 months) and they told me they are having tech problems with this procedure. This issue has been brought up by a lot of other people and they don't know when it will be fixed but they are working on it. When Joel mentioned M207 I saw I was positive for it on my Geno 2 results so that's when I started comparing FTDNA with my Geno 2 results.
                                    > I just thought I'd bring it up in case anyone else has noticed that problem.
                                    > Danny
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Sunday, October 27, 2013 1:44 PM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > Hi Joel
                                    > Can you post this to our yahoo group?
                                    >
                                    > Gary
                                    >
                                    > Sent from my iPhone
                                    >
                                    > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR <hrjoel3@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Gary:
                                    > > 
                                    > >On the Haplotree SNP
                                    > > 
                                    > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these
                                    > > 1. L23 !R1b1a2a*
                                    > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1*
                                    > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a*
                                    > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1*
                                    > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a*
                                    > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1
                                    > > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2
                                    > > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3
                                    > > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4*
                                    > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a*
                                    > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1*
                                    > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a*
                                    > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1
                                    > > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b
                                    > > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c
                                    > > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5
                                    > > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6
                                    > > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7
                                    > > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8
                                    > > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9
                                    > > 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b*
                                    > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1
                                    > > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2
                                    > > 3. U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3*
                                    > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a
                                    > > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b
                                    > > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c*
                                    > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1*
                                    > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a
                                    > > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2
                                    > > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d
                                    > > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4*
                                    > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a
                                    > > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b
                                    > > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c
                                    > > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d
                                    > > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e
                                    > > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f
                                    > > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g
                                    > > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h
                                    > > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i
                                    > > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5*
                                    > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a
                                    > > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b
                                    > > 2. M335R1b1b
                                    > > 1. V88
                                    > > 2. R1b1c*
                                    > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1
                                    > > 4. P267P249M124L266
                                    > > 5. R2*
                                    > > 6. 1. L294R2a
                                    > >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress
                                    > > 
                                    > >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?
                                    > > 
                                    > >Joel
                                    > > 
                                    > >Gary:
                                    > > 
                                    > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?
                                    > > 
                                    > >See copied.
                                    > > 
                                    > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and
                                    > > 
                                    > > 
                                    > > 
                                    > > 
                                    > > 
                                    > > 
                                    > > 
                                    > ");
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                                    >
                                    > From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                                    > >To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:13 AM
                                    > >Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                    > >
                                    > > 
                                    > >I would thinkthat Don Luis's will would be recorded in the death records of San Fernando Cathedral?  
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >-----Original Message----- From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...> To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 6:59 am Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                    > > 
                                    > >Thank you, that is the same Menchaca. Like I said I cannot document that he is the father. Will keep searching for more evidence. 
                                    > >On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >> 
                                    > >>Gilbert,
                                    > >>
                                    > >>Google---- Hernandez, Andres-Texas State Historical Association.  In this disputed land grant in San Antonio Texas is mentioned a Luis Antonio Menchaca who also claimed ownership to the grant.  This may be a lead.  Andres Hernandez's wife, Maria Hoyos is my Tia 5th generations approximately!!
                                    > >>
                                    > >>Jaime Rendon Hernandez
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>-----Original Message----- From: GILBERT VILLERREAL <gvillerreal63@...> To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Oct 25, 2013 5:18 pm Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] RE: Family Finder results
                                    > >> 
                                    > >>The baptismal record is from Villa San Fernando de Bexar.
                                    > >>5th Great grand Mother  Margarita Menchaca.
                                    > >>I suspect that the father of Antonia Serafina Menchaca, the daughter of Margarita is Don Luis Menchaca, the master of Margarita no proof or documentation. I am looking for the will of Don Luis Menchaca. 
                                    > >>San Fernando Church Baptisms 1731-1775
                                    > >>entry 325 p20
                                    > >>John Ogden Leal
                                    > >>San Antonio Public Library
                                    > >> 1754.
                                    > >>Antonia Serafina Menchaca was baptised when she was 8 days old. She was bastised at San Fernando, in Villa Bejar. The record states that she is a Mestiza, child of Margarita Menchaca, Apache Indian, servant of Don Luis Menchaca, who raised her, " y es publica " Godmother Maria de Anpuco.
                                    > >>On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...> wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>> 
                                    > >>>Great, what state and town is the baptismal record from?
                                    > >>>On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, <gvillerreal63@...> wrote:
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>> 
                                    > >>>>Hi,
                                    > >>>>I have found a female ancestor who is listed as an Apache in a baptismal record.  
                                    > >>>>---In mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com, <armandor1b@> wrote:
                                    > >>>>The term Maya with Family Finder is just a generic term. Indians from all over Mexico will have their aDNA show as Maya. This does not mean they are literally directly descended from them. It is more an example about how far DNA testing has to go before they can correctly identify aDNA being part of a subgroup such as Mayans being a subgroups of Mexican and Central American Indians. The terms that FTDNA uses can be very misleading. They do us a favor by providing testing but they also do us an injustice by using those generic terms. The North American Indians and the Indians from northern Mexico do show an affinity and their aDNA can be shown to be slightly different from Indians from the rest of Mexico but even before the arrival of Spaniards there was a lot of mixing over thousands of years. Then once the Spanish arrived there was a lot of change especially since many of the Indian allies of the Spanish were taken with the Spanish to assist in the
                                    > pacification of northern Mexico and what is now New Mexico and Texas. This caused even more mixing of different Indian groups and Spaniards.
                                    > >>>>--- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "earthchild_marie" <earthchild_marie@> wrote:
                                    > >>>>>>
                                    > >>>>>> They will reply if you match exaqctly or at step 1. All other matches mean they would have to do a paper trail. If you are 1/3 Maya that means you need to start looking for relatives in southern Mexico or in Zacatecas and the same for your North Africa ancestors, because there were lots of African slaves imported to Mexico City in the 1600/1700s.
                                    > >>>>>> You might try joining some of the genealogy clubs, too. Do you live in the USA or in Mexico? The only Villareal person in my Brito database is Clara de Villareal, who died in 1752 in Picuris, Taos county, USA. She was the 1st wife of Melchor Rodriguez, son of Sebastian Rodriguez y Brito, who was born in Angola Africa about 1642; Melchor's mother
                                    > was Juana de la Cruz; they married in El Paso del Norte in 1697.
                                    > >>>>>>
                                    > >>>>>>
                                    > >>>>>> --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, "Gilbert villerreal" <gvillerreal63@> wrote:
                                    > >>>>>> >
                                    > >>>>>> > Hi,
                                    > >>>>>> > My Y dna is R1b1a2 R M269. I have just received the results form family finder population . Europe 38.88% Native American Central America (Maya) is 38.91% and Middle east North Africa (mozabite). I have e mailed a few possible matches, but no response. Do others have better results when they e mail possible matches? I had 3 matches for the y dna 37 markers, but have never received any response from anyone on the list of matches, very frustrating.
                                    > >>>>>> >
                                    > >>>>>>
                                    >
                                  • garyf@pacbell.net
                                    Joel,you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP s recently discovered. I don t see any you are presumed positive
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Oct 28, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Joel,
                                      you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP's recently discovered. 

                                      I don't see any you are presumed positive for on your FTDNA Y DNA hapo and SNP page. This would be the upstream markers if you tested positive for a particular SNP. 

                                      There are several ways to determine which SNP to test for. On the Mexico DNA Project page there are listed several haplogroups like this one with STR's that are common in particular haplogroups:
                                      R1b-M222Deep Ancestry - Decendant of L21 above. NW Irish origin. DYS 439 = 11, DYS459 = 8-9, DYS464 = 13-13-15-17, DYS456 = 15, DYS463 = 23.Latest information on (M222+).

                                      Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.

                                      You could also test for the same haplogroup as your closest matches but for R1b you should always test for 67 markers (STR's or Single Tandem Repeats).

                                      I would find a list of mutation rates which are on the project page and look for matches on the slowest mutating markers. The main thing is to look for where you are different from others in the database on these markers and find out what their terminal SNP is and test for it. For R1b the reference is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype. 

                                      The forums or Yahoo groups are a good source of new developments in the various haplogroups pertaining to new SNP's to test for.

                                      Keep in mind that the FTDNA haplotree is already outdated. Of course your Y DNA ancestry and STR's would help dictate which test to order first.

                                      The Stuckey's Y DNA line appear to be your closest matches.  They don't appear to have made their SNP known publicly so you may try asking one of them. 

                                      Gary 



                                      --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Joel
                                      > Can you post this to our yahoo group?
                                      >
                                      > Gary
                                      >
                                      > Sent from my iPhone
                                      >
                                      > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR hrjoel3@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Gary:
                                      > > 
                                      > >On the Haplotree SNP
                                      > > 
                                      > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these 1. L23 !R1b1a2a*
                                      > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1*
                                      > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a*
                                      > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1*
                                      > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a*
                                      > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1
                                      > > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2
                                      > > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3
                                      > > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4*
                                      > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a*
                                      > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1*
                                      > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a*
                                      > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1
                                      > > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b
                                      > > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c
                                      > > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5
                                      > > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6
                                      > > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7
                                      > > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8
                                      > > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9
                                      > > 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b*
                                      > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1
                                      > > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2
                                      > > 3. U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3*
                                      > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a
                                      > > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b
                                      > > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c*
                                      > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1*
                                      > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a
                                      > > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2
                                      > > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d
                                      > > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4*
                                      > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a
                                      > > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b
                                      > > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c
                                      > > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d
                                      > > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e
                                      > > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f
                                      > > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g
                                      > > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h
                                      > > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i
                                      > > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5*
                                      > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a
                                      > > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b
                                      > > 2. M335R1b1b
                                      > > 1. V88
                                      > > 2. R1b1c*
                                      > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1
                                      > > 4. P267P249M124L266
                                      > > 5. R2*
                                      > > 6. 1. L294R2a
                                      > >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress
                                      > >
                                      > >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?
                                      > > 
                                      > >Joel
                                      > > 
                                      > >Gary:
                                      > > 
                                      > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?
                                      > > 
                                      > >See copied.
                                      > > 
                                      > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and
                                      > > 
                                      > > 
                                      > > 
                                      > > 
                                      > > 
                                      > > 
                                      > >
                                      > ");
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                                      >

                                    • JOEL SR
                                      Gary:   I was told by FTDNA that these are terminal presumptive positives. Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D. From: garyf@pacbell.net ... U152
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Oct 30, 2013
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                                        Gary:
                                         
                                        I was told by FTDNA that these are terminal presumptive positives.
                                        M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                         
                                        Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                         
                                        She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                         
                                        Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                         
                                        Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                                        From: "garyf@..." <garyf@...>
                                        To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:40 AM
                                        Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Which SNP to test for
                                         
                                        Joel,
                                        you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP's recently discovered. 

                                        I don't see any you are presumed positive for on your FTDNA Y DNA hapo and SNP page. This would be the upstream markers if you tested positive for a particular SNP. 

                                        There are several ways to determine which SNP to test for. On the Mexico DNA Project page there are listed several haplogroups like this one with STR's that are common in particular haplogroups:
                                        R1b-M222Deep Ancestry - Decendant of L21 above. NW Irish origin. DYS 439 = 11, DYS459 = 8-9, DYS464 = 13-13-15-17, DYS456 = 15, DYS463 = 23.Latest information on (M222+).
                                        Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                        You could also test for the same haplogroup as your closest matches but for R1b you should always test for 67 markers (STR's or Single Tandem Repeats).
                                        I would find a list of mutation rates which are on the project page and look for matches on the slowest mutating markers. The main thing is to look for where you are different from others in the database on these markers and find out what their terminal SNP is and test for it. For R1b the reference is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype. 
                                        The forums or Yahoo groups are a good source of new developments in the various haplogroups pertaining to new SNP's to test for.
                                        Keep in mind that the FTDNA haplotree is already outdated. Of course your Y DNA ancestry and STR's would help dictate which test to order first.
                                        The Stuckey's Y DNA line appear to be your closest matches.  They don't appear to have made their SNP known publicly so you may try asking one of them. 
                                        Gary 
                                        --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote: > > Hi Joel > Can you post this to our yahoo group? > > Gary > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR hrjoel3@... wrote: > > > Gary: > >  > >On the Haplotree SNP > >  > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these 1. L23 !R1b1a2a* > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1 > > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2 > > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3 > > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1 > > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b > > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c > > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5 > > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6 > > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7 > > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8 > > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9 > > 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b* > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1 > > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2 > > 3. U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a > > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b > > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a > > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2 > > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d > > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a > > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b > > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c > > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d > > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e > > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f > > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g > > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h > > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i > > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a > > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b > > 2. M335R1b1b > > 1. V88 > > 2. R1b1c* > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1 > > 4. P267P249M124L266 > > 5. R2* > > 6. 1. L294R2a > >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress > > > >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent? > >  > >Joel > >  > >Gary: > >  > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45? > >  > >See copied. > >  > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > > "); > > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D. >
                                      • garyf@pacbell.net
                                        Joel Sr.on your haplogroup page at the bottom there are the FAQ tabs:Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Oct 30, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Joel Sr.
                                          on your haplogroup page at the bottom there are the FAQ tabs:

                                          Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                          Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                          You are predicted to be R1b and presumed to be the R paragroup markers which doesn't tell you much of anything.

                                          >She said the project administrator should recommend what tests >might fit the project.
                                          This is why I made this recommendation:
                                          Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                          We are a geographical project and the haplogroup projects specialize in what markers their members should test for.  Recommending SNP's is something they do. It is too much research for a geographical project admin.  Try joining the R-P312 project.

                                          I believe the help pages I have provided links to should answer your other questions.

                                          You could always purchase the Geno2 product which would help find your terminal SNP.

                                          Gary
                                          Mexico DNA Project Admin.



                                          --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:
                                          >
                                          I was told by FTDNA that these are terminal presumptive positives.
                                          M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                           
                                          Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                           
                                          She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                           
                                          Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                           
                                          Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D..
                                          >
                                          > From: "garyf@..." garyf@...
                                          > >To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:40 AM
                                          > >Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Which SNP to test for
                                          > >
                                          > > 
                                          > >Joel,
                                          > >you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP's recently discovered. 
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >I don't see any you are presumed positive for on your FTDNA Y DNA hapo and SNP page. This would be the upstream markers if you tested positive for a particular SNP. 
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >There are several ways to determine which SNP to test for. On the Mexico DNA Project page there are listed several haplogroups like this one with STR's that are common in particular haplogroups:
                                          > >R1b-M222 Deep Ancestry - Decendant of L21 above. NW Irish origin. DYS 439 = 11, DYS459 = 8-9, DYS464 = 13-13-15-17, DYS456 = 15, DYS463 = 23.Latest information on (M222+).
                                          > >Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                          > >You could also test for the same haplogroup as your closest matches but for R1b you should always test for 67 markers (STR's or Single Tandem Repeats).
                                          > >I would find a list of mutation rates which are on the project page and look for matches on the slowest mutating markers. The main thing is to look for where you are different from others in the database on these markers and find out what their terminal SNP is and test for it. For R1b the reference is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype. 
                                          > >The forums or Yahoo groups are a good source of new developments in the various haplogroups pertaining to new SNP's to test for.
                                          > >Keep in mind that the FTDNA haplotree is already outdated. Of course your Y DNA ancestry and STR's would help dictate which test to order first.
                                          > >The Stuckey's Y DNA line appear to be your closest matches.  They don't appear to have made their SNP known publicly so you may try asking one of them. 
                                          > >Gary --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:>> Hi Joel> Can you post this to our yahoo group?> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR hrjoel3@ wrote:> > > Gary: > > > >On the Haplotree SNP> > > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these 1. L23 !R1b1a2a* > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1> > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2> > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3> > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1> > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b> > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c> > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5> > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6> > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7> > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8> > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9> > 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b* > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1> > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2> > 3.
                                          > U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a> > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b> > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a> > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2> > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d> > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a> > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b> > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c> > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d> > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e> > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f> > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g> > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h> > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i> > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a> > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b> > 2. M335R1b1b> > 1. V88> > 2. R1b1c* > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1> > 4. P267P249M124L266> > 5. R2* > > 6. 1. L294R2a> >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress> >> >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?> > > >Joel>
                                          > > > >Gary:> > > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?> > > >See copied.> > > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "); > > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.>
                                          > >
                                          > M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                          >  
                                          > Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                          >  
                                          > She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                          >  
                                          > Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                          >
                                        • JOEL SR
                                          Halo:   I have acquired information related to DNA testing for rare genes by Donald Yates and an update on the find in Siberia with the child.   Cochise,
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Oct 31, 2013
                                          Halo:
                                           
                                          I have acquired information related to DNA testing for rare genes by Donald Yates and an update on the find in Siberia with the child.
                                           
                                          Cochise, Apache, in the West.
                                           
                                          Yates is enrolled with the Echota Cherokee Tribe. I am a participant in the Cherokee DNA Phase II project.
                                           
                                           
                                          c
                                          If you want to discover your genetic history and where you came from... you’ve found the right place!

                                          888-806-2588

                                           
                                          • DNA Fingerprint Plus $300


                                          The Cochise Gene

                                          Infrequent in the populations where it does appear, this autosomal ancestry marker is nevertheless a bellwether gene. It is named for the Apache chief Cochise who survived against all odds and lent his name to the Cochise Culture, an archaic phase of American Indian traditions beginning about seven thousand years ago in the American Southwest. It is  found at levels of 11-18% among Mexican, Maya, Quechua and Arizona Indians. The gene shows up in 1 in 13 North or South American Indians on average, and it is approximately the same result for Hispanics, Latinos or Latin Americans, as they typically have as much as 50% Native ancestry. It is absent in most Eastern Native Americans, as opposed to Western groups.  

                                          The Cochise Gene (in red) is huge in the New World compared to its Old World background (in black). 

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                                          Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                                          From: "garyf@..." <garyf@...>
                                          To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:13 PM
                                          Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Which SNP to test for
                                           
                                          Joel Sr.
                                          on your haplogroup page at the bottom there are the FAQ tabs:

                                          Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                          Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                          You are predicted to be R1b and presumed to be the R paragroup markers which doesn't tell you much of anything.

                                          >She said the project administrator should recommend what tests >might fit the project.
                                          This is why I made this recommendation:
                                          Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                          We are a geographical project and the haplogroup projects specialize in what markers their members should test for.  Recommending SNP's is something they do. It is too much research for a geographical project admin.  Try joining the R-P312 project.

                                          I believe the help pages I have provided links to should answer your other questions.

                                          You could always purchase the Geno2 product which would help find your terminal SNP.

                                          Gary
                                          Mexico DNA Project Admin.



                                          --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote: >
                                          I was told by FTDNA that these are terminal presumptive positives.
                                          M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                           
                                          Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                           
                                          She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                           
                                          Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                           
                                          Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.. > > From: "garyf@..." garyf@... > >To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:40 AM > >Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Which SNP to test for > > > >  > >Joel, > >you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP's recently discovered.  > > > > > >I don't see any you are presumed positive for on your FTDNA Y DNA hapo and SNP page. This would be the upstream markers if you tested positive for a particular SNP.  > > > > > >There are several ways to determine which SNP to test for. On the Mexico DNA Project page there are listed several haplogroups like this one with STR's that are common in particular haplogroups: > >R1b-M222 Deep Ancestry - Decendant of L21 above. NW Irish origin. DYS 439 = 11, DYS459 = 8-9, DYS464 = 13-13-15-17, DYS456 = 15, DYS463 = 23.Latest information on (M222+). > >Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values. > >You could also test for the same haplogroup as your closest matches but for R1b you should always test for 67 markers (STR's or Single Tandem Repeats). > >I would find a list of mutation rates which are on the project page and look for matches on the slowest mutating markers. The main thing is to look for where you are different from others in the database on these markers and find out what their terminal SNP is and test for it. For R1b the reference is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype.  > >The forums or Yahoo groups are a good source of new developments in the various haplogroups pertaining to new SNP's to test for. > >Keep in mind that the FTDNA haplotree is already outdated. Of course your Y DNA ancestry and STR's would help dictate which test to order first. > >The Stuckey's Y DNA line appear to be your closest matches.  They don't appear to have made their SNP known publicly so you may try asking one of them.  > >Gary --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:>> Hi Joel> Can you post this to our yahoo group?> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR hrjoel3@ wrote:> > > Gary: > > > >On the Haplotree SNP> > > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these 1. L23 !R1b1a2a* > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1> > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2> > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3> > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1> > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b> > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c> > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5> > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6> > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7> > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8> > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9> > 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b* > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1> > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2> > 3. > U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a> > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b> > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a> > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2> > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d> > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a> > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b> > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c> > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d> > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e> > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f> > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g> > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h> > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i> > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a> > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b> > 2. M335R1b1b> > 1. V88> > 2. R1b1c* > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1> > 4. P267P249M124L266> > 5. R2* > > 6. 1. L294R2a> >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress> >> >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?> > > >Joel> > > > >Gary:> > > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?> > > >See copied.> > > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "); > > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.> > > > M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^ >   > Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165. >   > She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project. >   > Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.   >
                                        • earthchild_marie
                                          Gary, what is the Geno2 project and does FTDNA test for that? ... Joel Sr. on your haplogroup page at the bottom there are the FAQ tabs: Understanding Results:
                                          Message 21 of 26 , Oct 31, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment

                                             Gary, what is the Geno2 project and does FTDNA test for that?



                                            ---In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, <mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                            Joel Sr.
                                            on your haplogroup page at the bottom there are the FAQ tabs:

                                            Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                            Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                            You are predicted to be R1b and presumed to be the R paragroup markers which doesn't tell you much of anything.

                                            >She said the project administrator should recommend what tests >might fit the project.
                                            This is why I made this recommendation:
                                            Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                            We are a geographical project and the haplogroup projects specialize in what markers their members should test for.  Recommending SNP's is something they do. It is too much research for a geographical project admin.  Try joining the R-P312 project.

                                            I believe the help pages I have provided links to should answer your other questions.

                                            You could always purchase the Geno2 product which would help find your terminal SNP.

                                            Gary
                                            Mexico DNA Project Admin.



                                            --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:
                                            >
                                            I was told by FTDNA that these are terminal presumptive positives.
                                            M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                             
                                            Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                             
                                            She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                             
                                            Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                             
                                            Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D..
                                            >
                                            > From: "garyf@..." garyf@...
                                            > >To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:40 AM
                                            > >Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Which SNP to test for
                                            > >
                                            > > 
                                            > >Joel,
                                            > >you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP's recently discovered. 
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >I don't see any you are presumed positive for on your FTDNA Y DNA hapo and SNP page. This would be the upstream markers if you tested positive for a particular SNP. 
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >There are several ways to determine which SNP to test for. On the Mexico DNA Project page there are listed several haplogroups like this one with STR's that are common in particular haplogroups:
                                            > >R1b-M222 Deep Ancestry - Decendant of L21 above. NW Irish origin. DYS 439 = 11, DYS459 = 8-9, DYS464 = 13-13-15-17, DYS456 = 15, DYS463 = 23.Latest information on (M222+).
                                            > >Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                            > >You could also test for the same haplogroup as your closest matches but for R1b you should always test for 67 markers (STR's or Single Tandem Repeats).
                                            > >I would find a list of mutation rates which are on the project page and look for matches on the slowest mutating markers. The main thing is to look for where you are different from others in the database on these markers and find out what their terminal SNP is and test for it. For R1b the reference is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype. 
                                            > >The forums or Yahoo groups are a good source of new developments in the various haplogroups pertaining to new SNP's to test for.
                                            > >Keep in mind that the FTDNA haplotree is already outdated. Of course your Y DNA ancestry and STR's would help dictate which test to order first.
                                            > >The Stuckey's Y DNA line appear to be your closest matches.  They don't appear to have made their SNP known publicly so you may try asking one of them. 
                                            > >Gary --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:>> Hi Joel> Can you post this to our yahoo group?> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR hrjoel3@ wrote:> > > Gary: > > > >On the Haplotree SNP> > > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these 1. L23 !R1b1a2a* > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1> > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2> > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3> > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1> > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b> > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c> > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5> > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6> > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7> > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8> > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9> > 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b* > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1> > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2> > 3.
                                            > U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a> > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b> > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a> > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2> > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d> > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a> > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b> > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c> > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d> > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e> > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f> > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g> > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h> > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i> > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a> > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b> > 2. M335R1b1b> > 1. V88> > 2. R1b1c* > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1> > 4. P267P249M124L266> > 5. R2* > > 6. 1. L294R2a> >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress> >> >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?> > > >Joel>
                                            > > > >Gary:> > > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?> > > >See copied.> > > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "); > > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.>
                                            > >
                                            > M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                            >  
                                            > Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                            >  
                                            > She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                            >  
                                            > Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                            >
                                          • Joel Peres
                                            https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/ Enjoy! ... https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/ Enjoy! On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 7:36 AM,
                                            Message 22 of 26 , Oct 31, 2013
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                                              On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 7:36 AM, <earthchild_marie@...> wrote:
                                               

                                               Gary, what is the Geno2 project and does FTDNA test for that?



                                              ---In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, <mexicodnaproject@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                              Joel Sr.
                                              on your haplogroup page at the bottom there are the FAQ tabs:

                                              Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                              Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                              You are predicted to be R1b and presumed to be the R paragroup markers which doesn't tell you much of anything.

                                              >She said the project administrator should recommend what tests >might fit the project.
                                              This is why I made this recommendation:
                                              Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                              We are a geographical project and the haplogroup projects specialize in what markers their members should test for.  Recommending SNP's is something they do. It is too much research for a geographical project admin.  Try joining the R-P312 project.

                                              I believe the help pages I have provided links to should answer your other questions.

                                              You could always purchase the Geno2 product which would help find your terminal SNP.

                                              Gary
                                              Mexico DNA Project Admin.



                                              --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:
                                              >
                                              I was told by FTDNA that these are terminal presumptive positives.
                                              M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                               
                                              Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                               
                                              She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                               
                                              Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                               
                                              Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D..
                                              >
                                              > From: "garyf@..." garyf@...
                                              > >To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:40 AM
                                              > >Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Which SNP to test for
                                              > >
                                              > > 
                                              > >Joel,
                                              > >you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP's recently discovered. 
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >I don't see any you are presumed positive for on your FTDNA Y DNA hapo and SNP page. This would be the upstream markers if you tested positive for a particular SNP. 
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >There are several ways to determine which SNP to test for. On the Mexico DNA Project page there are listed several haplogroups like this one with STR's that are common in particular haplogroups:
                                              > >R1b-M222 Deep Ancestry - Decendant of L21 above. NW Irish origin. DYS 439 = 11, DYS459 = 8-9, DYS464 = 13-13-15-17, DYS456 = 15, DYS463 = 23.Latest information on (M222+).
                                              > >Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                              > >You could also test for the same haplogroup as your closest matches but for R1b you should always test for 67 markers (STR's or Single Tandem Repeats).
                                              > >I would find a list of mutation rates which are on the project page and look for matches on the slowest mutating markers. The main thing is to look for where you are different from others in the database on these markers and find out what their terminal SNP is and test for it. For R1b the reference is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype. 
                                              > >The forums or Yahoo groups are a good source of new developments in the various haplogroups pertaining to new SNP's to test for.
                                              > >Keep in mind that the FTDNA haplotree is already outdated. Of course your Y DNA ancestry and STR's would help dictate which test to order first.
                                              > >The Stuckey's Y DNA line appear to be your closest matches.  They don't appear to have made their SNP known publicly so you may try asking one of them. 
                                              > >Gary --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:>> Hi Joel> Can you post this to our yahoo group?> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR hrjoel3@ wrote:> > > Gary: > > > >On the Haplotree SNP> > > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these 1. L23 !R1b1a2a* > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1> > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2> > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3> > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1> > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b> > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c> > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5> > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6> > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7> > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8> > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9> > 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b* > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1> > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2> > 3.
                                              > U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a> > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b> > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a> > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2> > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d> > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a> > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b> > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c> > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d> > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e> > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f> > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g> > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h> > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i> > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a> > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b> > 2. M335R1b1b> > 1. V88> > 2. R1b1c* > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1> > 4. P267P249M124L266> > 5. R2* > > 6. 1. L294R2a> >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress> >> >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?> > > >Joel>
                                              > > > >Gary:> > > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?> > > >See copied.> > > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "); > > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.>
                                              > >
                                              > M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                              >  
                                              > Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                              >  
                                              > She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                              >  
                                              > Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                              >


                                            • JOEL SR
                                              Gary:   What is the R P312 Project? Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D. From: garyf@pacbell.net ... offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP
                                              Message 23 of 26 , Nov 4, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Gary:
                                                 
                                                What is the R P312 Project?
                                                 
                                                Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                                                From: "garyf@..." <garyf@...>
                                                To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:13 PM
                                                Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Which SNP to test for
                                                 
                                                Joel Sr.
                                                on your haplogroup page at the bottom there are the FAQ tabs:

                                                Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                                Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)


                                                You are predicted to be R1b and presumed to be the R paragroup markers which doesn't tell you much of anything.

                                                >She said the project administrator should recommend what tests >might fit the project.
                                                This is why I made this recommendation:
                                                Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                                We are a geographical project and the haplogroup projects specialize in what markers their members should test for.  Recommending SNP's is something they do. It is too much research for a geographical project admin.  Try joining the R-P312 project.

                                                I believe the help pages I have provided links to should answer your other questions.

                                                You could always purchase the Geno2 product which would help find your terminal SNP.

                                                Gary
                                                Mexico DNA Project Admin.



                                                --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote: >
                                                I was told by FTDNA that these are terminal presumptive positives.
                                                M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                                 
                                                Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                                 
                                                She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                                 
                                                Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                                 
                                                Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.. > > From: "garyf@..." garyf@... > >To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:40 AM > >Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Which SNP to test for > > > >  > >Joel, > >you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP's recently discovered.  > > > > > >I don't see any you are presumed positive for on your FTDNA Y DNA hapo and SNP page. This would be the upstream markers if you tested positive for a particular SNP.  > > > > > >There are several ways to determine which SNP to test for. On the Mexico DNA Project page there are listed several haplogroups like this one with STR's that are common in particular haplogroups: > >R1b-M222 Deep Ancestry - Decendant of L21 above. NW Irish origin. DYS 439 = 11, DYS459 = 8-9, DYS464 = 13-13-15-17, DYS456 = 15, DYS463 = 23.Latest information on (M222+). > >Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values. > >You could also test for the same haplogroup as your closest matches but for R1b you should always test for 67 markers (STR's or Single Tandem Repeats). > >I would find a list of mutation rates which are on the project page and look for matches on the slowest mutating markers. The main thing is to look for where you are different from others in the database on these markers and find out what their terminal SNP is and test for it. For R1b the reference is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype.  > >The forums or Yahoo groups are a good source of new developments in the various haplogroups pertaining to new SNP's to test for. > >Keep in mind that the FTDNA haplotree is already outdated. Of course your Y DNA ancestry and STR's would help dictate which test to order first. > >The Stuckey's Y DNA line appear to be your closest matches.  They don't appear to have made their SNP known publicly so you may try asking one of them.  > >Gary --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:>> Hi Joel> Can you post this to our yahoo group?> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR hrjoel3@ wrote:> > > Gary: > > > >On the Haplotree SNP> > > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these 1. L23 !R1b1a2a* > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1> > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2> > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3> > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1> > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b> > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c> > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5> > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6> > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7> > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8> > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9> > 2. P312 !R1b1a2a1a1b* > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1> > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2> > 3. > U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a> > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b> > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a> > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2> > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d> > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a> > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b> > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c> > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d> > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e> > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f> > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g> > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h> > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i> > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a> > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b> > 2. M335R1b1b> > 1. V88> > 2. R1b1c* > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1> > 4. P267P249M124L266> > 5. R2* > > 6. 1. L294R2a> >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress> >> >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?> > > >Joel> > > > >Gary:> > > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?> > > >See copied.> > > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "); > > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.> > > > M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^ >   > Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165. >   > She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project. >   > Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.   >
                                              • garyf@pacbell.net
                                                Thank you Joel! Marie,Here is the FTDNA link:http://www.familytreedna.com/genographic-project.aspx Good
                                                Message 24 of 26 , Nov 5, 2013
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                                                  Thank you Joel!

                                                  Marie,
                                                  Here is the FTDNA link:

                                                  Good to see your submission at Somos Primos as well,

                                                  Britos In Portugal

                                                  Compiled by Marie Brito in July 2008 
                                                  Earthchild_Marie@...

                                                  Portuguese Brito genealogy begins in early 1200 AD with this book: 
                                                  "NOBLE LINAJE de PORTUGAL, ENTRONCADO CON OTRAS ILUSTRES CASAS DEL MISMO REINO Y de CASTILLA."
                                                  1st Generation: Juan Anez de Brito, a quien el Conde D. Pedro de Bracelos llama N. de Brito, es el mas antiguo caballero de este 
                                                  linajede que se tiene noticia. Caso con dona Magdalena de Acosta (hija de Gonzalo de Acosta, Privado del Rey Don Alfonso III de Portugal) y fueron padres de
                                                  1- Maria Anez de Brito, mujer de Gonzalo Vasquez de Moura, y
                                                  2- Alfonso Anez de Brito, que sigue.

                                                  Detailed and hard work for the Brito Family in all of us.
                                                  Best,
                                                  Gary
                                                  Mexico DNA Project Admin.


                                                  --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, Joel Peres  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/
                                                  > Enjoy!


                                                  > On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 7:36 AM, earthchild_marie@... wrote:

                                                  > > **
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Gary, what is the Geno2 project and does FTDNA test for that?
                                                  > >
                                                  > >


                                                • garyf@pacbell.net
                                                  Joel Sr.,here is the link with all the info.:http://www.familytreedna.com/public/atlantic-r1b1c/
                                                  Message 25 of 26 , Nov 5, 2013
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                                                    Joel Sr.,
                                                    here is the link with all the info.:


                                                    Gary
                                                    Mexico DNA Project Admin.

                                                    --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Gary:
                                                    >  
                                                    > What is the R P312 Project?
                                                    >
                                                    > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.
                                                    >
                                                    > From: "garyf@..." garyf@...
                                                    > >To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > >Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:13 PM
                                                    > >Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Re: Which SNP to test for
                                                    > >
                                                    > > 
                                                    > >Joel Sr.
                                                    > >on your haplogroup page at the bottom there are the FAQ tabs:
                                                    > >Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)
                                                    > >http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=26#314
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >Understanding Results: Y-DNA Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP)
                                                    > >http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers/default.aspx?faqid=26#933
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >You are predicted to be R1b and presumed to be the R paragroup markers which doesn't tell you much of anything.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >>She said the project administrator should recommend what tests >might fit the project.
                                                    > >This is why I made this recommendation:
                                                    > >Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.
                                                    > >We are a geographical project and the haplogroup projects specialize in what markers their members should test for.  Recommending SNP's is something they do. It is too much research for a geographical project admin.  Try joining the R-P312 project.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >I believe the help pages I have provided links to should answer your other questions.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >You could always purchase the Geno2 product which would help find your terminal SNP.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >Gary
                                                    > >Mexico DNA Project Admin.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >--- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:>
                                                    > >I was told by FTDNA that these are terminal presumptive positives.
                                                    > >M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^
                                                    > > 
                                                    > >Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.
                                                    > > 
                                                    > >She said the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.
                                                    > > 
                                                    > >Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  
                                                    > >Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D..> > From: "garyf@" garyf@ >To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:40 AM> >Subject: [MexicoDNAProject] Which SNP to test for> >> >  > >Joel,> >you are predicted to be R-M269 so yes these are all possibilities in addition to new SNP's recently discovered. > >> >> >I don't see any you are presumed positive for on your FTDNA Y DNA hapo and SNP page. This would be the upstream markers if you tested positive for a particular SNP. > >> >> >There are several ways to determine which SNP to test for. On the Mexico DNA Project page there are listed several haplogroups like this one with STR's that are common in particular haplogroups:> >R1b-M222 Deep Ancestry - Decendant of L21 above. NW Irish origin. DYS 439 = 11, DYS459 = 8-9, DYS464 = 13-13-15-17, DYS456 = 15, DYS463 = 23.Latest information on (M222+). > >Another way is to join an haplogroup project as the admin should be able to
                                                    > offer advice on the specific haplogroup SNP that would best fit your STR values.> >You could also test for the same haplogroup as your closest matches but for R1b you should always test for 67 markers (STR's or Single Tandem Repeats).> >I would find a list of mutation rates which are on the project page and look for matches on the slowest mutating markers. The main thing is to look for where you are different from others in the database on these markers and find out what their terminal SNP is and test for it. For R1b the reference is the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype. > >The forums or Yahoo groups are a good source of new developments in the various haplogroups pertaining to new SNP's to test for.> >Keep in mind that the FTDNA haplotree is already outdated. Of course your Y DNA ancestry and STR's would help dictate which test to order first.> >The Stuckey's Y DNA line appear to be your closest matches.  They don't appear to have made their SNP
                                                    > known publicly so you may try asking one of them. > >Gary --- In MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com, JOEL SR wrote:>> Hi Joel> Can you post this to our yahoo group?> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:30 AM, JOEL SR hrjoel3@ wrote:> > > Gary: > > > >On the Haplotree SNP> > > >How can one tell what SNP to order for testing? It appears that I could be tested for all of these 1. L23 !R1b1a2a* > > 1. L150 !R1b1a2a1* > > 1. L51 !R1b1a2a1a* > > 1. L52L11P311P310 !L151R1b1a2a1a1* > > 1. U106 !R1b1a2a1a1a* > > 1. U198 !R1b1a2a1a1a1> > 2. P107 !R1b1a2a1a1a2> > 3. L1 !R1b1a2a1a1a3> > 4. L48 !R1b1a2a1a1a4* > > 1. L47 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a* > > 1. L44 !L163R1b1a2a1a1a4a1* > > 1. L46 !R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a* > > 1. L45L164 !L237R1b1a2a1a1a4a1a1> > 2. L148 !R1b1a2a1a1a4b> > 3. L188 !R1b1a2a1a1a4c> > 5. L6 !R1b1a2a1a1a5> > 6. P89.2 !R1b1a2a1a1a6> > 7. L217 !R1b1a2a1a1a7> > 8. L257 !R1b1a2a1a1a8> > 9. L325 !R1b1a2a1a1a9> > 2. P312
                                                    > !R1b1a2a1a1b* > > 1. M65 !R1b1a2a1a1b1> > 2. M153 !R1b1a2a1a1b2> > 3.> U152 !R1b1a2a1a1b3* > > 1. M126 !R1b1a2a1a1b3a> > 2. M160 !R1b1a2a1a1b3b> > 3. L2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c* > > 1. L20 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1* > > 1. M228.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c1a> > 2. L196 !R1b1a2a1a1b3c2> > 4. L4 !R1b1a2a1a1b3d> > 4. L21 !R1b1a2a1a1b4* > > 1. M37 !R1b1a2a1a1b4a> > 2. M222 !R1b1a2a1a1b4b> > 3. P66 !R1b1a2a1a1b4c> > 4. L96 !R1b1a2a1a1b4d> > 5. L144 !L195R1b1a2a1a1b4e> > 6. L159.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4f> > 7. L193 !R1b1a2a1a1b4g> > 8. L226 !R1b1a2a1a1b4h> > 9. P314.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b4i> > 5. L176.2 !R1b1a2a1a1b5* > > 1. SRY2627 !R1b1a2a1a1b5a> > 2. L165 !R1b1a2a1a1b5b> > 2. M335R1b1b> > 1. V88> > 2. R1b1c* > > 3. 1. M18R1b1c1> > 4. P267P249M124L266> > 5. R2* > > 6. 1. L294R2a> >Legend: Your Confirmed HaplogroupYour Predicted Haplogroup+Tested Positive-Tested Negative^Presumed Positive!Test Available...Test In Progress> >> >P232 ^P224 ^P227 ^P280 ^P285 ^M207 ^P229 ^ What does it mean that you are
                                                    > assumed positive for these items? What SNP do they represent?> > > >Joel>> > > >Gary:> > > >How rare is R M207? Is connected with Q  and fromP45?> > > >See copied.> > > >In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "); > > > Joel K. Harris, Sr., Ph.D.> > >> M207 ^P227 ^P280 ^P232 ^P224 ^P229 ^P285 ^>  > Explain SNIPS? I was told that FTDNA does not provide information on the additional testing as L23 to L165.>  > She said
                                                    > the project administrator should recommend what tests might fit the project.>  > Is there a nomenclature for all theses items e.g. L23, L165 etc.  >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
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