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Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

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  • Joel Peres
    Alice From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line? I m also B2. Cheers Joel F
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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      Alice
      From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
      I'm also B2.
      Cheers
      Joel F Peres
      Chandler, AZ 


      On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
       

      Greetings Group,
      I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.
      Alice


    • sangerjaime@...
      Joel, My spouse is B4 5. Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora. They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900 s
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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        Joel,

        My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

        Jaime


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>
        To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 am
        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

         
        Alice
        From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
        I'm also B2.
        Cheers
        Joel F Peres
        Chandler, AZ 


        On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
         
        Greetings Group,
        I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.
        Alice


      • Joel Peres
        Yes, I ve heard its most common in that area, lots of New Mexicans as well. Did you test w/ FTDNA or 23andme? I believe @ 23andme you may come back as B2. I
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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          Yes, I've heard its most common in that area, lots of New Mexicans as well.

          Did you test w/ FTDNA or 23andme?

          I believe @ 23andme you may come back as B2.

          I was originally B4-5 over @ FTDNA
          but Nat Geo & 23andme have me at B2
          I did test w/ Genebase and came back H something, obviously that was an error.  




          On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:17 AM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
           

          Joel,

          My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

          Jaime


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>
          To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 am
          Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

           
          Alice
          From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
          I'm also B2.
          Cheers
          Joel F Peres
          Chandler, AZ 


          On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
           
          Greetings Group,
          I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.
          Alice



        • sangerjaime@...
          Both me and my wife have only tested with FTDNA!! Jaime ... From: Joel Peres To: MexicoDNAProject
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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            Both me and my wife have only tested with FTDNA!!

            Jaime



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>
            To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 9:23 am
            Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

             
            Yes, I've heard its most common in that area, lots of New Mexicans as well.

            Did you test w/ FTDNA or 23andme?

            I believe @ 23andme you may come back as B2.

            I was originally B4-5 over @ FTDNA
            but Nat Geo & 23andme have me at B2
            I did test w/ Genebase and came back H something, obviously that was an error.  




            On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 9:17 AM, <sangerjaime@...> wrote:
             
            Joel,

            My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

            Jaime


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>
            To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 am
            Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

             
            Alice
            From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
            I'm also B2.
            Cheers
            Joel F Peres
            Chandler, AZ 


            On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
             
            Greetings Group,
            I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.
            Alice



          • Orfa Salinas
            Jaime,     My mother s mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4 5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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              Jaime,
               
                My mother's mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4'5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in Nuevo Leon or Tamaulipas, Mexico. The extended family has been in South Texas and as far north as Crystal City since the Mexican Revolution of 1910 although they came and went since before that. Her family had a lot of intermarriages. Her parents were double cousins, that is through both parents. I have no idea what Native tribe they could be. The family never mentioned any background. My cousin told me that she asked my grandfather once what kind of Indian he was. He had a very "typical Native American nose" and looked somewhat like the crying Native in the TV ads. He told her, angrily," Quitate de aqui!". Actually, he also was dark brown which no one else in the family was so I assumed he might also have some Black ancestry. I've just ordered a Family Finder test on my mother since they already have a DNA sample.
              Orfa
               
               
              "People usually hate what they don't understand."
              Moses ibn Ezra
              From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
              To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:17 AM
              Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
               
              Joel,

              My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

              Jaime


              -----Original Message-----From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
               
              Alice
              From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
              I'm also B2.
              Cheers
              Joel F Peres
              Chandler, AZ 
              On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
               
              Greetings Group,I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.Alice
            • sangerjaime@...
              Orfa, My mother s people the Rendons were originally from Monterrey, Cerralvo and Cadeyreta Nuevo Leon since the late 1500 s. Her Y through her Dad was R1B1
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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                Orfa,

                My mother's people the Rendons were originally from Monterrey, Cerralvo and Cadeyreta Nuevo Leon since the late 1500's.  Her  Y through her Dad was R1B1 M73. Her maternal X was A.  I carry my Mom's X-A haplogroup.  Thru my Dad, Hernandez line my Y is E1b1b1a1a-V12. Through FTDNA I have discovered many new Salinas relatives in the autosomal test.

                Jaime



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Orfa Salinas <osalinas3@...>
                To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 11:14 am
                Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

                 
                Jaime,
                 
                  My mother's mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4'5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in Nuevo Leon or Tamaulipas, Mexico. The extended family has been in South Texas and as far north as Crystal City since the Mexican Revolution of 1910 although they came and went since before that. Her family had a lot of intermarriages. Her parents were double cousins, that is through both parents. I have no idea what Native tribe they could be. The family never mentioned any background. My cousin told me that she asked my grandfather once what kind of Indian he was. He had a very "typical Native American nose" and looked somewhat like the crying Native in the TV ads. He told her, angrily," Quitate de aqui!". Actually, he also was dark brown which no one else in the family was so I assumed he might also have some Black ancestry. I've just ordered a Family Finder test on my mother since they already have a DNA sample.
                Orfa
                 
                 
                "People usually hate what they don't understand."
                Moses ibn Ezra
                From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:17 AM
                Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                 
                Joel,

                My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

                Jaime


                -----Original Message-----From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                 
                Alice
                From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
                I'm also B2.
                Cheers
                Joel F Peres
                Chandler, AZ 
                On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
                 
                Greetings Group,I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.Alice
              • Orfa Salinas
                Oh my mother s brother s y is a Q and on my dad s y is an I and his mt is a J. But my autosomal from FTDNA says I m a cousin to Crispin Rendon which you
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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                  Oh my mother's brother's y is a Q and on my dad's y is an I and his mt is a J. But my autosomal from FTDNA says I'm a cousin to Crispin Rendon which you probably are too. Comparing our family trees makes that pretty obvious. I wonder if I have to resubmit that information to Gary? He had it all from before.
                       Orfa
                   
                  "People usually hate what they don't understand."
                  Moses ibn Ezra
                  From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                  To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:27 PM
                  Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                   
                  Orfa,

                  My mother's people the Rendons were originally from Monterrey, Cerralvo and Cadeyreta Nuevo Leon since the late 1500's.  Her  Y through her Dad was R1B1 M73. Her maternal X was A.  I carry my Mom's X-A haplogroup.  Thru my Dad, Hernandez line my Y is E1b1b1a1a-V12. Through FTDNA I have discovered many new Salinas relatives in the autosomal test.

                  Jaime



                  -----Original Message-----From: Orfa Salinas <osalinas3@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 11:14 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                   
                  Jaime,
                   
                    My mother's mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4'5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in Nuevo Leon or Tamaulipas, Mexico. The extended family has been in South Texas and as far north as Crystal City since the Mexican Revolution of 1910 although they came and went since before that. Her family had a lot of intermarriages. Her parents were double cousins, that is through both parents. I have no idea what Native tribe they could be. The family never mentioned any background. My cousin told me that she asked my grandfather once what kind of Indian he was. He had a very "typical Native American nose" and looked somewhat like the crying Native in the TV ads. He told her, angrily," Quitate de aqui!". Actually, he also was dark brown which no one else in the family was so I assumed he might also have some Black ancestry. I've just ordered a Family Finder test on my mother since they already have a DNA sample.
                  Orfa
                   
                   
                  "People usually hate what they don't understand."Moses ibn Ezra
                  From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                  To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:17 AM
                  Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                   
                  Joel,

                  My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

                  Jaime


                  -----Original Message-----From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                   
                  Alice
                  From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
                  I'm also B2.
                  Cheers
                  Joel F Peres
                  Chandler, AZ 
                  On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
                   
                  Greetings Group,I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.Alice
                • sangerjaime@...
                  In FTDNA I do not show you as a cousin, but you are right, Cris Rendon shows as my 3rd/4th primo! Gary might be overwhelmed right now, you might ask him if
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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                    In FTDNA I do not show you as a cousin, but you are right, Cris Rendon shows as my 3rd/4th primo!  Gary might be overwhelmed right now, you might ask him if you should resubmit.  Most of my new relatives found thru FTDNA, share the same last names the I have in my direct line pedigree, prepared by Cris.   So my written pedigree appears to be getting authentication by the saliva swab!!

                    Jaime



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Orfa Salinas <osalinas3@...>
                    To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 12:55 pm
                    Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

                     
                    Oh my mother's brother's y is a Q and on my dad's y is an I and his mt is a J. But my autosomal from FTDNA says I'm a cousin to Crispin Rendon which you probably are too. Comparing our family trees makes that pretty obvious. I wonder if I have to resubmit that information to Gary? He had it all from before.
                         Orfa
                     
                    "People usually hate what they don't understand."
                    Moses ibn Ezra
                    From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                    To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:27 PM
                    Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                     
                    Orfa,

                    My mother's people the Rendons were originally from Monterrey, Cerralvo and Cadeyreta Nuevo Leon since the late 1500's.  Her  Y through her Dad was R1B1 M73. Her maternal X was A.  I carry my Mom's X-A haplogroup.  Thru my Dad, Hernandez line my Y is E1b1b1a1a-V12. Through FTDNA I have discovered many new Salinas relatives in the autosomal test.

                    Jaime



                    -----Original Message-----From: Orfa Salinas <osalinas3@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 11:14 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                     
                    Jaime,
                     
                      My mother's mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4'5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in Nuevo Leon or Tamaulipas, Mexico. The extended family has been in South Texas and as far north as Crystal City since the Mexican Revolution of 1910 although they came and went since before that. Her family had a lot of intermarriages. Her parents were double cousins, that is through both parents. I have no idea what Native tribe they could be. The family never mentioned any background. My cousin told me that she asked my grandfather once what kind of Indian he was. He had a very "typical Native American nose" and looked somewhat like the crying Native in the TV ads. He told her, angrily," Quitate de aqui!". Actually, he also was dark brown which no one else in the family was so I assumed he might also have some Black ancestry. I've just ordered a Family Finder test on my mother since they already have a DNA sample.
                    Orfa
                     
                     
                    "People usually hate what they don't understand."Moses ibn Ezra
                    From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                    To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:17 AM
                    Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                     
                    Joel,

                    My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

                    Jaime


                    -----Original Message-----From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                     
                    Alice
                    From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
                    I'm also B2.
                    Cheers
                    Joel F Peres
                    Chandler, AZ 
                    On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
                     
                    Greetings Group,I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.Alice
                  • Heriberto Escamilla
                    Hola, I hope you don t mind if I add to the conversation. According to FTDNA, my maternal lineage is C1c2, which another of the indigenous lineages. Family
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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                      Hola, I hope you don't mind if I add to the conversation. According to FTDNA, my maternal lineage is C1c2, which another of the indigenous lineages. Family finder also tells me this is Maya or Hopi. But I believe it is really difficult to use DNA to pinpoint a particular tribe. The other complication is that the Europeans often took natives with them as they went along. So there had probably been admixture in the Caribbean even before they landed on the mainland. Once on the mainland, they also took people on other expeditions. According to records. natives also traded people. La Malinche, Cortes's interpreter was supposedly from central Mexico, but traded to the people's in the Yucatan. So she spoke both languages and together with Pedro de Aguilar, who spoke one of the Mayan languages and Spanish, was able to form a translation chain. So, given these patterns and that many indegenous people in Mexico have probably not provided the necessay samples,  it seems to me that it would be very difficult, maybe not impossible, and maybe with time, this might change.

                      But for the record, I understand the people around Nuevo Leon were the Guachichil, or Huachil and a few others. I understand that Guachichil means something like "those that paint their faces red". I read somewhere that this is where the "Rayados" de Monterrey comes from.  Valle del Guajuco, which became La Villa de Santiago and where many of my ancestors are from was named after one of the last Guachichil caciques.

                      It is said that when the Spanish asked the Mejica about their neighbors to the north they described them as Chichimeca (people of the dog lineage; chi chi or tzi tsi an affectionate name for dog and mectatl for rope or lineage). I don't know if they said this pejoratively to associate them with "dogs", uncivilized people or something else. The historical Chichimeca were supposedly of the lineage of Xolotl. This was one of those mythic people, an actual historical person that grew in proportion with time. Xolotl, is the base of the Tijuana soccer team. I love soccer.

                      Anyway, the Huichol people, that sounds a lot like Hauchil or Guachichil are supposedly from the area of northern San Luis Potosi and possibly southern Nuevo Leon. At some time before the European invasion, they migrated to the area of Jalisco, Zacatecas  and Nayarit, where they presently live. They still make the pilgrimage to their place of origin, near Real de Catorce. In one of their creation stories, they tell of how they are descended from a she dog that mated with a human. So they say they are of the dog lineage. Whether they were influenced by the Mejica or the other way around is a mystery.  The Huichol people call themselves Wi'rarika. Huichol is there Spanish name.

                      But Guachichil, Hauchil, Zacatecanos and other "chichimeca" are said to the indigenous peoples of the area around San Luis Potosi and Nuevo. Of course, there are many other stories, Whether there is any truth in this one....who knows?

                      Beto


                      From: Orfa Salinas <osalinas3@...>
                      To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:14 AM
                      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

                       
                      Jaime,
                       
                        My mother's mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4'5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in Nuevo Leon or Tamaulipas, Mexico. The extended family has been in South Texas and as far north as Crystal City since the Mexican Revolution of 1910 although they came and went since before that. Her family had a lot of intermarriages. Her parents were double cousins, that is through both parents. I have no idea what Native tribe they could be. The family never mentioned any background. My cousin told me that she asked my grandfather once what kind of Indian he was. He had a very "typical Native American nose" and looked somewhat like the crying Native in the TV ads. He told her, angrily," Quitate de aqui!". Actually, he also was dark brown which no one else in the family was so I assumed he might also have some Black ancestry. I've just ordered a Family Finder test on my mother since they already have a DNA sample.
                      Orfa
                       
                       
                      "People usually hate what they don't understand."
                      Moses ibn Ezra
                      From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                      To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:17 AM
                      Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                       
                      Joel,

                      My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

                      Jaime


                      -----Original Message-----From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                       
                      Alice
                      From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
                      I'm also B2.
                      Cheers
                      Joel F Peres
                      Chandler, AZ 
                      On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
                       
                      Greetings Group,I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.Alice


                    • osalinas3
                      Beto I m impressed how much you know. Did you learn this from books or family stories?  Orfa Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Express™, an AT&T LTE smartphone
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
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                        Beto
                        I'm impressed how much you know. Did you learn this from books or family stories? 
                        Orfa


                        Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Express™, an AT&T LTE smartphone



                        -------- Original message --------
                        From: Heriberto Escamilla <betoescamilla@...>
                        Date: 07/03/2013 4:10 PM (GMT-06:00)
                        To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA


                         

                        Hola, I hope you don't mind if I add to the conversation. According to FTDNA, my maternal lineage is C1c2, which another of the indigenous lineages. Family finder also tells me this is Maya or Hopi. But I believe it is really difficult to use DNA to pinpoint a particular tribe. The other complication is that the Europeans often took natives with them as they went along. So there had probably been admixture in the Caribbean even before they landed on the mainland. Once on the mainland, they also took people on other expeditions. According to records. natives also traded people. La Malinche, Cortes's interpreter was supposedly from central Mexico, but traded to the people's in the Yucatan. So she spoke both languages and together with Pedro de Aguilar, who spoke one of the Mayan languages and Spanish, was able to form a translation chain. So, given these patterns and that many indegenous people in Mexico have probably not provided the necessay samples,  it seems to me that it would be very difficult, maybe not impossible, and maybe with time, this might change.

                        But for the record, I understand the people around Nuevo Leon were the Guachichil, or Huachil and a few others. I understand that Guachichil means something like "those that paint their faces red". I read somewhere that this is where the "Rayados" de Monterrey comes from.  Valle del Guajuco, which became La Villa de Santiago and where many of my ancestors are from was named after one of the last Guachichil caciques.

                        It is said that when the Spanish asked the Mejica about their neighbors to the north they described them as Chichimeca (people of the dog lineage; chi chi or tzi tsi an affectionate name for dog and mectatl for rope or lineage). I don't know if they said this pejoratively to associate them with "dogs", uncivilized people or something else. The historical Chichimeca were supposedly of the lineage of Xolotl. This was one of those mythic people, an actual historical person that grew in proportion with time. Xolotl, is the base of the Tijuana soccer team. I love soccer.

                        Anyway, the Huichol people, that sounds a lot like Hauchil or Guachichil are supposedly from the area of northern San Luis Potosi and possibly southern Nuevo Leon. At some time before the European invasion, they migrated to the area of Jalisco, Zacatecas  and Nayarit, where they presently live. They still make the pilgrimage to their place of origin, near Real de Catorce. In one of their creation stories, they tell of how they are descended from a she dog that mated with a human. So they say they are of the dog lineage. Whether they were influenced by the Mejica or the other way around is a mystery.  The Huichol people call themselves Wi'rarika. Huichol is there Spanish name.

                        But Guachichil, Hauchil, Zacatecanos and other "chichimeca" are said to the indigenous peoples of the area around San Luis Potosi and Nuevo. Of course, there are many other stories, Whether there is any truth in this one....who knows?

                        Beto


                        From: Orfa Salinas <osalinas3@...>
                        To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:14 AM
                        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

                         
                        Jaime,
                         
                          My mother's mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4'5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in Nuevo Leon or Tamaulipas, Mexico. The extended family has been in South Texas and as far north as Crystal City since the Mexican Revolution of 1910 although they came and went since before that. Her family had a lot of intermarriages. Her parents were double cousins, that is through both parents. I have no idea what Native tribe they could be. The family never mentioned any background. My cousin told me that she asked my grandfather once what kind of Indian he was. He had a very "typical Native American nose" and looked somewhat like the crying Native in the TV ads. He told her, angrily," Quitate de aqui!". Actually, he also was dark brown which no one else in the family was so I assumed he might also have some Black ancestry. I've just ordered a Family Finder test on my mother since they already have a DNA sample.
                        Orfa
                         
                         
                        "People usually hate what they don't understand."
                        Moses ibn Ezra
                        From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                        To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:17 AM
                        Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                         
                        Joel,

                        My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

                        Jaime


                        -----Original Message-----From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                         
                        Alice
                        From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
                        I'm also B2.
                        Cheers
                        Joel F Peres
                        Chandler, AZ 
                        On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
                         
                        Greetings Group,I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.Alice


                      • Heriberto Escamilla
                        You have all that I know now; a combination of ways, reading, stories and about 8 years ago, I met a Huichol curandero that has taught me a lot Beto
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 3, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          You have all that I know now; a combination of ways, reading, stories and about 8 years ago, I met a Huichol curandero that has taught me a lot

                          Beto


                          From: osalinas3 <osalinas3@...>
                          To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:26 PM
                          Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

                           
                          Beto
                          I'm impressed how much you know. Did you learn this from books or family stories? 
                          Orfa


                          Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Express™, an AT&T LTE smartphone



                          -------- Original message --------
                          From: Heriberto Escamilla <betoescamilla@...>
                          Date: 07/03/2013 4:10 PM (GMT-06:00)
                          To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA


                           
                          Hola, I hope you don't mind if I add to the conversation. According to FTDNA, my maternal lineage is C1c2, which another of the indigenous lineages. Family finder also tells me this is Maya or Hopi. But I believe it is really difficult to use DNA to pinpoint a particular tribe. The other complication is that the Europeans often took natives with them as they went along. So there had probably been admixture in the Caribbean even before they landed on the mainland. Once on the mainland, they also took people on other expeditions. According to records. natives also traded people. La Malinche, Cortes's interpreter was supposedly from central Mexico, but traded to the people's in the Yucatan. So she spoke both languages and together with Pedro de Aguilar, who spoke one of the Mayan languages and Spanish, was able to form a translation chain. So, given these patterns and that many indegenous people in Mexico have probably not provided the necessay samples,  it seems to me that it would be very difficult, maybe not impossible, and maybe with time, this might change.

                          But for the record, I understand the people around Nuevo Leon were the Guachichil, or Huachil and a few others. I understand that Guachichil means something like "those that paint their faces red". I read somewhere that this is where the "Rayados" de Monterrey comes from.  Valle del Guajuco, which became La Villa de Santiago and where many of my ancestors are from was named after one of the last Guachichil caciques.

                          It is said that when the Spanish asked the Mejica about their neighbors to the north they described them as Chichimeca (people of the dog lineage; chi chi or tzi tsi an affectionate name for dog and mectatl for rope or lineage). I don't know if they said this pejoratively to associate them with "dogs", uncivilized people or something else. The historical Chichimeca were supposedly of the lineage of Xolotl. This was one of those mythic people, an actual historical person that grew in proportion with time. Xolotl, is the base of the Tijuana soccer team. I love soccer.

                          Anyway, the Huichol people, that sounds a lot like Hauchil or Guachichil are supposedly from the area of northern San Luis Potosi and possibly southern Nuevo Leon. At some time before the European invasion, they migrated to the area of Jalisco, Zacatecas  and Nayarit, where they presently live. They still make the pilgrimage to their place of origin, near Real de Catorce. In one of their creation stories, they tell of how they are descended from a she dog that mated with a human. So they say they are of the dog lineage. Whether they were influenced by the Mejica or the other way around is a mystery.  The Huichol people call themselves Wi'rarika. Huichol is there Spanish name.

                          But Guachichil, Hauchil, Zacatecanos and other "chichimeca" are said to the indigenous peoples of the area around San Luis Potosi and Nuevo. Of course, there are many other stories, Whether there is any truth in this one....who knows?

                          Beto


                          From: Orfa Salinas <osalinas3@...>
                          To: "MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com" <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:14 AM
                          Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA

                           
                          Jaime,
                           
                            My mother's mtDNA thru FTDNA is also B4'5. Her mother was born in Parras, a small town in northern Mexico, next to Mier and Agualeguas, all in Nuevo Leon or Tamaulipas, Mexico. The extended family has been in South Texas and as far north as Crystal City since the Mexican Revolution of 1910 although they came and went since before that. Her family had a lot of intermarriages. Her parents were double cousins, that is through both parents. I have no idea what Native tribe they could be. The family never mentioned any background. My cousin told me that she asked my grandfather once what kind of Indian he was. He had a very "typical Native American nose" and looked somewhat like the crying Native in the TV ads. He told her, angrily," Quitate de aqui!". Actually, he also was dark brown which no one else in the family was so I assumed he might also have some Black ancestry. I've just ordered a Family Finder test on my mother since they already have a DNA sample.
                          Orfa
                           
                           
                          "People usually hate what they don't understand."
                          Moses ibn Ezra
                          From: "sangerjaime@..." <sangerjaime@...>
                          To: MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:17 AM
                          Subject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                           
                          Joel,

                          My spouse is B4'5.  Her maternal grandma was born in a small town outside of Guaymas Sonora.  They migrated into the Nogales Az area in the early 1900's and also use to live in Guadalupe AZ. Her oldest uncle could speak Yaqui.  He told me he went to school with Yaqui children in a town I believe he called Empalme Sonora, outside of Guaymas. I believe the B haplogroup may be common to the Yaqui?

                          Jaime


                          -----Original Message-----From: Joel Peres <joelfrancisperes@...>To: MexicoDNAProject <MexicoDNAProject@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2013 7:53 amSubject: Re: [MexicoDNAProject] mtDNA
                           
                          Alice
                          From what state within Mexico or the American Southwest is your most distant related ancestress along your maternal line?
                          I'm also B2.
                          Cheers
                          Joel F Peres
                          Chandler, AZ 
                          On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:52 AM, alicebb@... <alicebb@...> wrote:
                           
                          Greetings Group,I've tested YDNA R-L176.2 and mtDNA B2. I've found tons of information on the Y DNA, but very little specifics on the mtB2 other than the generic Native American. Is B2 too far up on my haplogroup tree and requires further testing to get more specific? Thanks so much for your help.Alice




                        • Sam
                          OK, so I order a Full Genomic Sequence on my mtDNA from FTDNA. They send my results. I have no idea what I am to make of these. They list RSRS Values, rCRS
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 19, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            OK, so I order a Full Genomic Sequence on my mtDNA from FTDNA. They send my results. I have no idea what I am to make of these. They list RSRS Values, rCRS Values and then a link to the "mtDNA Community". I am not a genome scientist and unless they explain to me what these are telling me I have no idea how to interpret this "Full Genomic Sequence" data. Do I need to connect and upload to the mtDNA Community website to understand what this information is telling me?
                            I'm happy to give access to my information for anyone who has the inclination to help me out.
                            Thank you!
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